Sorry to get this news hope it's not to bad on you if it helps we are here you you if you need a friend hun :hugs:
Angie
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Sorry to get this news hope it's not to bad on you if it helps we are here you you if you need a friend hun :hugs:
Angie
hey rhonda, I am sorry for waht happened to you. I have yet to find tru love, or love at all so i do not know waht it feels like but i would assume it is very painful. I hope things work out for the better.
-stephy
i think she was just looking for a reason... the real problem is with her, she accepted your feeling of dressing for all those years and now to bring it up??thats just a scape-goat action. you would be a better person if you let her go and do her thing.as you should. too many times people stay together "for the children" when that is possibly the worst thing to do. talk to her and get the things straight. let her go, but be upfront and make sure your children a took care of.
I went through a divorce a few years ago. It was not about CDing. I didn't have my own clothes then, so I know she did not know. Regardless...
I can say this.
You are entering the coldest, darkest, period of your life. Take solice in the fact that you have some support. I had none.
Even if you never CD again, you must discover who you are. You are YOU...and she was never a part of you if she could do this to you.
I sent you a PM, please take my words there to heart. I feel your pain.
Please, let me know if you have any questions or just need to talk.
Do not forget this...
You are a wonderful person. Nothing that you have done deserves this. She made a commitment to you...and she decided not to live up to it.
Find yourself.
Morgan
I have to agree with what the others have said. There is definitely something more going on than just the crossdressing. I think she is using it as a convenient excuse. Especially since you tried to stop and that did not make any difference to her at all. And why so definitively all of a sudden, with no attempt by her to make it all work out. (unless she said it bothered her from the beginning and for all those years you flaunted it in front of her and made no attempt to keep it to yourself and she finally got fed up, but that is not what it sounds like from what you said).
Another point though. You said that CDing is not part of you now - that it is gone. Perhaps that is true, but for most of us, we can stop doing it for a bit, but the need for it does not stop, and cannot totally go away. It is a part of us, and for many or most of us, it has been a part of us at least since early childhood. We can keep it in the closet, but I think some expression of it, at least in private, is healthy. And not something to feel bad or ashamed about (which most of us have gone through).
I hope that you can make peace with yourself, I have to agree that this is the beginning of the rest of your life. Hold your chin up be proud of who you are now. I sense maybe you don't really know who you are right now. Don't take offense to this, but maybe some deep soul searching will answer your questions, I know you said that you gave it up, if you can honestly live with this then so be it. I go to church every week and I feel that I have made my peace with God. Cd'ing is a part of who I am and I cannot put that aside whether in the closet or in public. My prayers are with you and I know that things will work out for you.
Rhonda Jean,
Your posts don't say where you are located (state/country). If you are in one of several states, I could give more specific advice. Regardless of where you are, your first priority to is get a GOOD attorney -- one that will fight for you "if" such is necessary. That said, most divorces are "done deals" by the time they get to court where the judge just signs-off on what you and your soon-to-be ex have hammered out (with your lawyers -- this is why a dollar now will save you thousands later). These meetings (you'll meet with your attorney -- probably several times -- then you two will meet with her and her attorney) are called "settlement conferences." Ideally, you'll come up with a Settlement Agreement and that will be that! Most of the time, only the filing party even goes to court, says virtually nothing, and the judge signs the Divorce Decree, which is based upon, and incorporates, the Settlement Agreement. Essentially, it is the judge's job at this point to make sure that the Settlement Agreement doesn't have some glaring errror at law, then to sign the decree, thus dissolving the marriage.
NOW, someone said for you to be honest with your attorney about the crossdressing. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO SO!!!!!!! You don't want to walk into a settlement conference with your attorney not knowing, then the opposing attorney throws this at him!!!! Think about the opposing attorney saying to your clueless attorney, "Hey, this marriage is over b/c he dresses up in women's clothing, is a pervert, and blah, blah, blah." Your attorney MUST know so he or she is prepared to reply, "so what - your client liked it, encouraged it, and participated in it -- now she wants to make it into a club -- I don't think so!!!"
True, most states are "no fault divorce" states, but do NOT let that lull you!!! Maybe it isn't necessary in court (not that it can't be brought up), but its true value is in the settlement conference. Like Mrs. A was committing adultery with StudMuffin. Mr. A traveled for a living -- got off the plane one day coming home, only to be met by a deputy and served with a divorce complaint at the airport -- on his birthday, no less. Mrs. A was going after all she could get!!! But, a third party told Mr. A's attorney what was going on with StudMuffin. So, into the Settlement Conference they go, with Mrs. A's attorney feeling supremely confident (but not knowing what his client had been up to). Then Mr. A's attorney blindsided opposing counsel with one sentence, "Okay, we've heard all that your client is demanding, but let's talk about someone named StudMuffin." That's all it took!!!
One piece of advice: I don't know if you are still living in the same house with your soon-to-be-ex, but if you are -- and regardless if you think she's a saint -- look for "the goods." An adultery truism: most men commiting adultery won't check all the phone jacks in their home to see if a tape recorder is hooked up -- most women adulterers do!!!!!!! One guy I knew was doing like you: everything he could to put his marriage back together -- and he didn't believe his wife was capable of adultery. She denied, on her mother's grave, that there was another man!!! She finally says if he'll quit begging -- for one solid month -- about the two of them going to couples counsling, she'll go. He decidees that if he could just be certain she was being honest, he could live with this, so he decides to get some confirmation. Knowing the cardinal rule about phone tape recorders (forget legalities about wiretapping, which vary state-by-state), he goes into the attic -- way out on the beams where there is no flooring. He splices into the phone system with a telephone recorder (one that starts when the phone is picked up, and stops when it is hung up). Puts the recorder in a bag to keep out insulation dust -- and fluffs up the insulation so you couldn't tell anybody had been messing in the attic. The next day he retrieves the tape -- and BINGO!!! Discovers she's commiting adultery -- with whom, where, what friends know, etc.
Admissable in court? No! A sledge hammer in the Settlement Conference -- you bet!!!!!!! I'm not tring to be harsh -- I'm trying to bring you a dose of reality!!! I recall one man who, piece by piece, gave his wife EVERYTHING on the promise that she'd consider reconcilliation. After she literally got everything, she divorced him -- and he NEVER knew about her adulterous ways!!!
My own first wife finally agreed she'd go to couples counseling ONE time just to see -- and only b/c one of our children was begging her to do so. (Check my first post on this thread about my Christmas Eve that year!) The day we were to meet at the counselor's, I get a message from her that I was to bring a Quit Claim deed to the house -- which I had paid for (even the down payment came from an inheritance from my family) -- but also remember, the first thing she had said to me was I could have the house, I could have the kids, that she was out of the marriage -- and I NEVER saw this coming -- it was like a ton of bricks falling on me from out of nowhere!!! Anyway, the day we were to finally go to counseling, I got that message from her -- but I was beginning to wise up!!! I told her absolutely no -- that she'd either live up to her word and show up for the appointment or she wouldn't. She didn't -- I learned later it was just a ploy to get more for herself and that she had been thinking maybe she could find a way to get the house.
Why am I telling you all this???
PROTECT yourself!!!!!!! Life WILL get better -- and you don't want to get to a better place after having given away the farm!!!!!!!
Yep, my second wife had affairs for 5 of the 6 years that we were married. I suspected it for a while before I finally found evidence on the computer. She was careless with hiding her tracks. I put up with it for much longer then I should have, in the end, I forced her to file for divorce. I told her that if she filed, everything would go smoothly if she was cooperative, but if I had to file, things would get ugly. I have copies of 2 pictures of her having sex with one of her boyfriends, I found them on her account. I also have her IM transcripts from 2 different men I know she was having affairs with. As I said, she was careless with covering her tracks. She knew that I have these things to use against her, but, in the end, she left me for her current boyfriend anyway.
Adultery is pretty common in a bad marriage, from both sexes.
Hi Sweetie,
i too feel for you as i have gone through the same situation. My wife chose to end our marriage after 23 years. It was only the last 5 years in which my secret was known to her. She had a very difficult time with it and couldnt understand why i was unable to stop. To be truthful, the only feminine clothes i wore were panties and nylons. I tried to give them up but it just wasnt possible.
I'd been a devoted husband and father who spoiled his wife rotten but it didnt save anything. And yes, my wife too had an earlier affair. She event walked away from the home and our children. It was an awful time. But i accepted her back unconditionally when things went sour between her and her lover.
But now i am 18months down the line from the eventual divorce and please let me reassure you that there is life after divorce. What you do about your dressing is up to you sweetie. I suspect that as you heal from the trauma of the split you will gradually and quite naturally return to your special enjoyment of your softer side.
Be brave sweetie. Time heals everything.
kelsey
For me it was very hard but ended up being the best thing for me I regained my freedom and control of my own life The first 6 months were the hardest for me I started over fresh, new place to live new everything realy. Look at it as a new beginning, I am as happy as ever now.
Like you, my first marriage ending in divorce ended up being the best thing that could have ever happened to me!!! You couldn't convince me of that at the time, but today I can't say it enough!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistybtm
Thanks so much to you all. I'm doing better. I couldn't even visit this site for a long time, much less post. You all are so supportive! I knew you would be, I just wasn't in a "place" where I wanted to discuss it.
Sherri... I'm in Arkansas. What I'm afraid of is that she or her lawyer use the opportunity to "out" me as blackmail for a larger settlement and custody of ou 16 year old. As I've said, she moved out over Father's Day weekend, and we really haven't talked much since, but when she told me she was ready to move on she said she didn't want to be ugly about it. Then I get served and it says she wants custody of our son, child support and spousal support. I'm afraid if I don't go along with everything they'll say, "Fine, well just go to court and make all this public!" How do you see it?
Thanks,
Rhonda
Hi Ronda Jean I have just gone thru the same thing mine was 30 years. I at first tried to do away with my self , yes did every thing you did , it won't work. They have made up there minds, its not the Cd ing trust me that is a minor part. Take all that you can't get get a good lawyer an come to Flordia I have met and I am now with a wonderfull women. She an I are the same size and I had met four other women that had no problem with me dressing. I belong to the local Tri Ess chapter an she came to a meeting with me, have not been in a while but its summer an we are doing a lot . I have a great friend back in Ct that we see an he is a Cd that I lived with , she likes him very much an is willing to meet any Cd friend I have. Yes it still hurts , it won't ever stop but there are great women out there that will love you for who you are , I am 66 and am haveing such a great time I kiss this womens feet as much as I can. Love the toe nail color all kidding aside life gose on, Good luck
Josephine
Rhonda,Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
Let me get right to the heart of some VERY important specifics:
(A.) How much dressing have you done in front of your wife? (Just need a sketch of what you have done. Like if I was to answer this question I'd start by saying that my wife has known since just before we got engaged, and I'd say that (1.) I always underdress (always wear panties, don't even own a pair of men's underwear). (2.) Always dress in femme things for bed; no wig, just clothes (while wife dresses in one of my t-shirts for bed 99.9999% of the time). (3.) All of my tennis shoes, jeans, some of my street shoes, and most of my short pants are women's. (4.) Dress "fully" around the house in afternoon/evenings as often as possible - usually don't wear wig when do this. (5.) Have dressed fully and completely and been out in public from time-to-time; most recently my wife and I did a "marriage vow renewal in Las Vegas with me as the bride - plenty of professional photos, including several out in front of the chapel on Las Vegas Blvd (the "Las Vegas Strip") where I was literally seen by thousands upon thousands -- kind of hard to deny that with the camera sapping shot-after-shot.
(B.) Did I understand you correctly that she has not only known about your CDing for a long time but has been participatory? If you didn't say that, then tell me what's what.
(C.) Does ANYBODY else know? For example, in my situation, one of my stepdaughters knows and is very okay with it. This is a VERY important question!!!!!!!
(D.) In your personall life, have you been the sole breadwinner? Or, has your wife worked, too? Does she work now? Would you say that you (and your wife/children) have lived a fairly comfortable life or are you just scrapping by? IOW: do you have money set aside? Are you financially secure or not? Do you have investments? A living trust? There are MAJOR reasons for these -- I'm not just prying.
With the answers to these, I have a couple of things I can tell you that may be very helpful. I would have PM'ed these to you, but there are several lawyers on this forum and I think it in your best interest that they see what I have asked, and more importantly, what you answer and what I say in return!!!
In the meantime, DON'T get all tied up in worries -- "it aint over till its over." She can't extort you -- and under ABA rules of conduct, her lawyer can't allow for the appearance of extortion to enter into this!!!
Very good advice. Listen to it, and act.
Stephie
Thanks for your help. I haven't contacted a lawyer yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheri 4242
Rhonda
Rhonda, Get yourself a lawyer right now. You need advice on how to begin preparing now. You said that she left the house. In Pennsylvania, I could change the locks immediately and deny her access to the house and it's contents until after the property settlement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
This sounds harsh, but, as Sherri said, get a lawyer that will fight for you. If you don't, you can end up losing your shirt. Having been there and done that, I know what I am saying.
Also, you can't get emotional at any time. You must stay totally objective. Tell your lawyer exactly what you want, and let him/her do it.
I have an old army buddy who served three tours in Nam and went through three divorces. His advice to me on not getting emotional was--"It is like calling in Artillery fire on a village. You can't think about how many people you are killing. You just have to call it in and kill them." That is how you look at it. Harsh as it might sound, if you get emotional, you will never be able to call in that artillery that will save your ass.
Jodi
You had better believe it! That is what is happening in 99% of the cases. Happened to me and I've seen it since! Sheri 4242, seems like we have a lot in common! And I know what you mean about not seeming like a good thing at the time. Over the past year, I have been amazed to discover how much i was played, manipulated etc etc. I had been a total idiot! So much for Mr Nice Guy meaning anything.Quote:
When a GG will leave you regardless of all that you did that she said that she wanted "to possibly save the marriage" -- it is a pretty safe bet that she is being adulterous (forget "having an affair" -- that is TOO NICE sounding). I was the first to defend my first wife to everybody!!!!!!! (No!!!!!!! She wouldn't do that!!!!!!! Never in a million years!!!!!!!) Guess what????!!!!!!! I have seen this exact same scenario played out hundreds of times!!!!!!! Just based on the little you have told us, I would be shocked if all this wasn't based on adultery!!!!!!!
I think you may be in much better shape than you think!!!!!!!
1. If nobody knows, then it is your word against hers. {Settlement Conference: Her lawyer, "He dresses in women's clothing, blah, blah, blah." Your attorney, "And you have proof of this? Produce it or we'll draft a complaint against her for defamation of character! . . . And maybe for trying to get more money by means of extortion."} The truth is, sans admissable proof, and with your having only dressed in front of her decades ago, she has nothing!!!
Oh, she and her attorney might try and make something out of it to scare you -- but many men dress up for Halloween -- or for community charity events, etc. When I was in college, one sorority had a Mr. Beautiful contest every year where the guys dressed up and competed. It is no big deal! What can she prove -- PUT YOUR SPIN ON THIS: decades ago the two of you were being silly and you put on something of hers -- maybe she asked you to do it, gee it was such a long time ago!!! It is nothing that can be used against you -- and if you get a competent attorney, it CAN be turned around to make it into what it is: her trying to extort you!!! Wearing panties? How about a simple response that you like wearing nylon bikinis -- you see this on tv and in the movies all the time now days.
In the main, unless I'm missing something, you are in great shape b/c (a.) she has no prooof of anything (save what you might admit, which should be nothing), and (b.) this can be turned on her to sound like a desperate attempt at a form of extortion.
2.) If you have the money, you might want to hire a private investigator to see if there is adultery going on. Now, that is evidence you can use at this point. When I found out my first wife was commiting adultery, it was "game over." She got nadda!!!!!!! She didn't know about the CDing -- probably had a suspicion or two, but nothing she could have proved -- if she had, believe you me, she would have used it! Talk to your attorney about this! By-the-way, your first meeting with an attorney should be a no-charge event. If, after you have laid everything out, they talk more like they are a mediator than your bulldog, keep looking. You don't want one that is going to say, well let's look at this with a sense of fairness -- she deseves something for years of married life, etc. BULL!!!!!!! I'd be willing to wager a year's income she is commiting adultery -- and now, knowing the extent (or actually lack thereof) of CDing, she has nothing but a shot at trying to extort you with something that can be easily explained away!!! (In fact, now that you have provided a better picture of the extent of things, I think I might revise what I'd tell the attorney: your wife has suggested that she plans on using something silly you two did over two decades ago to extort you into a better financial deal for herself -- and you also have reason to believe she may be commiting adultery. (It is also amazing how many women like your wife will tell their friends about their adulterous relationships -- my first wife did without thinking about the fact that, yes, these were her gf's, but none of them were willing to perjure themselves about what they knew about the adultery!)
What about your child??? At 16, he should have a say in who he lives with!!! Either by statute or practice, most states put heavy weight on a child's wishes as long as they are 14 or older. My children opted to stay with me.
Let me think on this some more -- and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. With what has been said, I truly think you are in excellent shape!!!
This was my original thought as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheri 4242
If my wife left me and started saying I was a crossdresser...I would deny it. Thing is, if she left you and has no solid proof that you are a CD, then her claim will seem like a ploy to get more money out of you. You could just as easily claim that she is a Neo-Nazi!! :)
Thing about hearsay is that it is just that. Her lawyer will likely toot that particular horn in hopes that you will cave under fear. Don't. Claim that she is a liar and foul person for even suggesting such a thing.
Now...before the lectures start...lawyers will use any sleezy tactic to get what they want...you should be prepared to fight dirty.
Okay...flame away.
Morgan
Hi Sheri,
I might have misled you. She knew all about the crossdressing. I've been seeing a therapist where I told EVERYTHING in the form of a letter. Even that I'd gone out in public out of town. There is now doubt I'm a crossdresser. I couldn't deny it.
Thanks,
Rhonda
Rhonda,
Well, what you've added muddles the picture a bit, but not totally. What you have told your therapist is 100% confidential unless you waive your patient-therapist confidentiality. The letter concerns me somewhat. Whose idea was it to write the letter? Who has seen it? Who has copies of it? And, was this therapist "your" therapist or was the therapist seeing you both? "If" the therapist was only seeing you, then what I said at the start applies. "If" the therapist was seeing both of you, that complicates matters and adds an element of conflict of interest . . . any therapy reports should, therefore, fall in your favor, in re confidentiality, under such a conflict. Even the employees of the therapist are bound by patient-client confidentiality. "Susie Secretary" may know everything about why you see the therapist but can't say a word -- not in public, not in a deposition, not in court.
Having gone out en femme out of town "might" be problematic, but then again it might not. What's the proof? Your wife saying so? It would take a lot of investigation (and a lot of money) to find anybody who could testify to your crossdressing out of town -- and it is a "iffy" thing at best. If you and I lived in the same town and you knew me in my male personna, it would be doubtful you'd recognize me just from my avatar femme photo. A few years ago, I dresed for Halloween. Actually, I do every year. Anyway, I was sort of dressed in a "vamp" look, and I was very rushed when getting ready, so the makeup job wasn't very good. As you can tell from my avatar photo, I'm not all that passible -- and that photo was taken afte a professional had worked on me! Anyway, back to my story: my wife and I walked next door as the "trick or treaters" were slowing down in numbers to speak to the lady who lives next door -- she had been out front, as we had, handing out candy as the kids would come to our doors. Our neighbor was shocked -- she thought I was "maybe" my wife's sister from out of town (which doesn't bode well for my sister-in-law :lol2:). Not until I opened my mouth did she realize it was me -- somebody she sees every day!!!
At any rate, I remain unconvinced that your wife can prove a thing!
That said, "if" you get a good lawyer, and if that lawyer is competent, it shouldn't take much (in a settlement conference) to show that your wife is atempting to extort you (you give me what I want or I out you).
Now, some things to be concentrating on in addition to the above. How many children do you have and what are their ages? The general age is 14 for a judge to listen to their desires as to who they live with, but sometimes they'll go lower (11-12).
Most important is the potential adultery of your wife. That is worth the cost of an investigator a thousand times over!!! What can be sloughed off as occassional silliness pines in comparison to torid infidelity. When a judge goes to bed at night, he or she wants to feel that the custodial parent is the more nurturing of the two. I'd bet that is you!!! Potentially exposing your children to "strange men" coming over to "play with mommy" isn't going to win the hearts of many judges!
So, there is more Q&A, but chin up!!! This game "aint over" yet!!!
Hi Rhonda, sorry to hear what you're going through.
I agree that the CDing is most likely not the only issue. Whether it might have been an affair or something entirely different is beside the point. It seems, however, that the love from her is no longer there. People fall in and out of love all the time, and sometimes they really don't know why.
So don't hate your CDing, as it is/was a part of who you are. Thus you only end up hating yourself.
As for how (if) she plans on using your CDing in the divorce, it may depend on where you live as to how it will affect the proceedings. Usually the hearings are private, so it is doubtful that it will ruin you or have a negative impact on your children. Besides, it is not an illegal activity.
If your children don't know about your CDing, you might want to think about telling them, as you can put it in a better light than them hearing about it second hand.
Wow Sheri - spoken like a true professional, keep up the good fight. Rhonda, I have 1 divorce and 3 "relationships" which got messy. I lost my 2 sons to my wife, who was "understanding" but wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be the wrong sort of influence on "our" boys. The main thing that gave her control was my CD'ing, the threat of exposure, the logic she applied. Now my boys are 18 and 20, I have missed out on their growing up and I am back into CD'ing and give little regard to what others think (except where it may be dangerous). I also discovered that my private behaviour was not the real reason for our divorce or any of the other break ups but it was the convenient excuse which gave them control over how much of a fight I put up. They know this. the change in your wifes requests post break up is probably as much to do with decisions she has made in the quiet of an empty house as well as the influence of friends and lawyers. I can only advise you to fight for what you truly want - if she is going to "out" you she will regardless, so be prepared for that. Hard as it may be to accept, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You have been a long time CD'er, stress such as break ups will either make the desire stronger or drive it away. Time will tell either way. I didn't dress for years, I completely lost the desire and couldn't justify to myself why I needed to. I lost out in myself as it is an important part of my psyche and an important part of me was dead. I ended up impotent and empty, I poured myself into my work without reward. Don't go down this path. Fight for your child, retain your dignity and don't lose sight of what is important in life. Listen to Sheri. Have faith in yourself.
Rhonda, the key phase in any conflict resolution process is "acceptance". And one thing we all should do is to accept the consequences of our actions.
The opposite of acceptance is "denial". There are plenty of posts here stating -with various degrees of emphasis- that crossdressing "can't" be the main reason for your wife to divorce you. To me that sounds like denial.
First, the only person who knows the reason beyond any doubt is your wife. Not even you (sorry). The rest of the posters (of course I'm including myself) don't even know her, and all we know from you is through the flimsy connection of the web. Therefore we could venture opinions for years, and still miss the mark by a mile. Unless some of us can read minds through a DSL cable (and we would still need a post from your wife!)
Then, accept that your crossdressing is a likely reason fo her reaction. Not necessarily "the" reason, but a likely one. It's your thing, not hers. She did not choose it. Some GG posters would jump "well, I've been the proud wife of a crossdresser for years, so she has to be too". Nope. You can't impose what other people want or like. And note this is not about mere tolerance: to live with somebody for so many years it takes a lot more than tolerance: a woman could befriend a crossdresser and have a perfectly solid frendship with him, yet when asked "would you share your life with that guy?" she could say "no way!".
Sorry if this sounded harsh. It is meant to help. I don't know if it does ot not, but I believe in sincere self-examination more than empty pats in the back.