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WOW Carrah that is one of the best posts I've seen regarding the subject of this thread. For once somebody has spoken out for the guy and said it as it is. I will probably be in the wrong for saying this, but I applaud your frankness and honesty.
Paula Jeanette, you have my sympathy, I understand what you are going through, but Carrah sure makes a lot of sense.
Linda
Ah, the Forum has come through once again!
There are some wonderful and thought provoking responses above....except for those who gloat that they're not in that circumstance - and were smart enough to get everything clear up front...well, woopee for you...that doesn't help our sister one bit.
You now have a credibility issue -BUT as pointed out, numerous articles and books are available on the subject - and right at your fingertips: the Internet has more support groups and literature than you can shake a stick at. Your wife thinks her world has collapsed - and she's married to one of a dozen freaks in this world. Since she won't believe you any longer, it's time to introduce outside "authority" in the form of the aforementioned books and literaure. You have to show IMMEDIATELY that you're one OF millions - not one IN A million. This is the first step in her getting over the "poor me" syndrome. Which, by the way, she is entitiled to.
And the clothes? Yes, get them the hell off the premises. You appear to have some expensive clothes, so weigh the cost of a rental closet to the cost.
Good luck. Prayers, indeed.
And keep us informed - besides the help available here, there's a lesson to be learned by some.
Lipstick kisses
Karen
Just to clear a couple of points; when I refer to still being the man of the house, I'm not refering to that macho, chest pounding, grunting, farting crap. I'm refering to still being the male in a male/female relationship, which the wife or SO in these cases tends to doubt - for whatever reason. Crossdressing, in fact, makes you no less a man - period! Look at it this way; would it make a difference to anyone here as to whether or not Marine Force Recon soldiers were looking for your butt while they were all dressed in women's clothing? Let me just say this much, I certainly hope not!
I'm 46-years-old and was with my x-wife for 25 of those years; 5 dating and 20 married. We seperated and ultimately divorced due in absolutely no part to my then occasional bout with crossdressing, which in general involved nothing more than panties and pantyhose and generally only during the colder, winter months primarily for warmth and to some degree, comfort and fulfillment. She was aware of this and fine with this.
Bottom line, we're talking about clothing here. We're talking basically for most of us, about a hobby. We're talking about having fun. We're talking about the essence of a relationship; trust. We're talking about no harm done. We're talking essentially about the same paint on our faces and nails as those guys with "Go Eagles" painted across their chest at the ball park.
Finally, what century am I living in? This century - modern times. You see, one of the many things I have learned about myself is that if I am thinking it and getting involved in it, whatever "it" may be, so is an aweful lot of other people. I have learned that I am rarely out in front of any concept in America. Knowing this tells me that we are all on the virge of this whole crossdressing issue coming into the forefront sooner than we might think. In most cases, I am a late-comer. Note that we are seeing it more on TV, hearing it more, reading about it more, and so on. I have seen two CD's in two different malls within just the last three weeks and these were in relatively rural areas.
It is us, we that make this a bad thing by hiding, shriveling up, and cowering from it. As a former Marine I have learned that when the going gets tough, we all fall upon our training - it's automatic - the essence of training. With that I have resolved myself to while I am not interested in revealing myself to all I know and then throwing it in their faces, as do so many gay activists, but then neither will I hide from it when what I do is discovered. When and/or if I am unexpectedly discovered, I will not contribute in any way to the concept that it is somehow a bad thing by apologizing, cowering, or shriveling up like I've done something wrong or perhaps filthy or deviant.
To my girlfreind of 5 years (maybe 6, who's counting) I brought it to her the moment I realized I was back into crossdressing again after so many years and why, because I trust her and because I have an understanding and acceptance of human nature. I am confident that my relaxed approach to the whole issue was a factor in releaving her of any concerns she may have had otherwise, had I approched the issue as though I had a desease or a defect of some sort. Recently, while watching a SITCOM, one of the characters pointed to an x-spouse and warned his girlfreind that he is a crossdresser. I looked at my girlfriend, who was kind of going to simply ignore the comment, as though she didn't hear it, and as we made eye contact I said "well, so am I!" We both laughed and that bit of tension was immediately resolved. I then said to her, "Well, baby, we may have switched roles a bit here; you wearing the suits and me wearing the skirts, but one thing you have at home waiting for you in the evenings that a lot of other women do not have and only dream of, is a sex-machine." She said, "you are a very sexy man - I love you..."
I did get something from this thread; that women, to some degree, have no one to discuss this with. Technically this is false for any woman with Internet access, which my girlfriend does have and which she is quite capable of utilizing to it's fullest. I have asked her on a couple of occassions if she is still comfortable with what I do and she has assured me she is just fine with it. I understand that I do not want to keep dwelling on that point, however. I have simply asked her to let me know when/if she ever just get's tired of it for whatever reason. If that time ever comes, I am reasonably certain it would be based upon her interest in bringing me back to reality; something that can and often does escape us all from time to time...
I also wish you well with the struggle your in. I'm in the same boat with my wife who is totally uncomprimising with this issue. I think her thoughts of what a Cder is revolve around the television aspect of the subject. I've been watching the Law and order program with her because that is where she actually developed her ideas. If all representation of our comunity is like this than change in general will be along time in coming.
On the thearpy side her church sponsored psychologist tells her to be uncomprimising because her view is right. :mad: I would make a jarhead coment considering his background but that woulnd't accomplish anything.
Good luck with your situation and for what it is worth your wife probably should remain number one for now. My thought is there is plenty of lingerie to by everyday but my wife is only one of a kind.
Danielle
(curtsey)
My experience has taught me that being honest and up front works best in the end. There are times when there is hurt initially, but in the end, it was better that one was up front.
There are times when i have met GFs while dressed. Little to tell them about, there, they already know. i have met two or three while dressed at Hallowe'en or other costume parties. i made sure to tell them that i do not just dress like this for parties. They have all been smart enought to figure out that no one spent that kind of money for just a party costume; they do know what this stuff costs.
For other relationships, if it looked like it was going anywhere, i would tell them after a couple of dates. Those who ran and/or made comments about being a 'queer' or a 'wierd-0', oh well, they would have done that no mater when they found out. Those who did not.good.
i go for periods of time when i shave body hair and don't shave it. There have been times when i was getting up close and personal with a young lady and she discovered my missing body hair. More than one asked why. i was truthful. Sometimes i would try to be funny: 'You shave your legs because hair looks silly in nylons, well i look silly in nylons with hairy legs too'. i have been thrown out of more than one apartment or house and been pulling on my shirt and carrying my shoes and socks as i moved from the doorway quickly lest the neighbors see what all the shouting was about. Similarly, more than one has gone into her closet or lingerie drawer to get something for me to wear while we got even more friendly.
Sure, the negative experiences hurt, but in the end, i realized that i was better off saying something when i did.
(curtsey)
-sissy stacy
Each of you...in your own way, has expressed feelings and emotions based on personal experiences and I appreciate your willingess to share them with me. I appreciate the overwhelming support...gee does it help to know I have some who accept me the way I am....a crossdresser. Thank you!
Needless to say, Friday was a rough day for both my wife and I. We had a dinner engagement and, to her credit, we did attend. Naturally, there was still some anger and, of course, many stretches of silence in the drive. But, basically, I just let her vent...which she needed to do. She was pointed and direct in her comments, critical, and not physical. It was OK because I'm still alive and she did not kill me...which I'm sure she felt like doing for all her anger AND THE HURT. Luckily our evening went well and there were a few moments where we enjoyed ourselves. I wasn't worried about her divulging secrets to anyone. One thing about my wife, I can trust her implicitly! She knows what would happen--to both of us--if my secret were known to others. Although I know she wants and needs someone to talk with about my crossdressing, she won't. One possible course of action for me is to initiate more direct discussions about this rather than follow my usual course of action...silence. Maye our chats will help her think through her fears and anxiety as well as afford me an opportunity to tell her about myself and provide some general information about crossdressers.
Well, Saturday was calm and Sunday the same. Sometime during the weekend, she did make a comment or two..."...and you even wear stockings and heels..." "...watchout, I have an image of you which others don't have..."
So, I have a lot to say and share. I appreciate your letting ME vent. I have a lot of thoughts in my mind but I don't want this to be a long post. So, I'll break them up.
Lastly, thank you again for your support and thoughts.
Paula J.
Paula, First sympathies for the turmoil you and your wife are going through. There is a plethora of stances and approaches to take. I hope you choose what is best for you.
Thanks for the update. It sounds like the both of you are going to be fine. I got reassurance from my wife (after I outed myself) by her little comments as well. It told me that she is dealing w/it. It is good to let her vent. Don't try to fix her problem, that is not what she wants. She just needs you to be there for her. Two other points I'd like to make. One is to keep talking about it. Communication is the only way the two of you will move forward. The other is honesty. Be true to yourself (most important), then be true to her.
Best of luck,
Dana
Susan stated: “I find that allowing a woman to demand manhood from her husband while she stands there in men's clothes is rather ridiculous when I think about it.”
Helana stated: “For a wife to continue to deny her husband's emotional needs and happiness is to reject part of him, to make him continue to feel guilty and ashamed.”
Think a lot of gals feel that guys enfemme can't "be men", and that phallasy (typo intended) can be quickly laid to rest. They might then also realize that such men (and men they definitely are) are also more sensually pleasing than their wham-bam-thank-you-mam counterparts, and grow to appreciate their lover's feminine alter-ego.
Good shot, Keri
There are two levels of hypocrisy here -
- the replusion many women show to crossdressing men despite the fact that 90% of their own wardrobe is masculine
- the fact that women want "new men" who have sensitive, emotive needs - reading between the lines, a man who combines the good bits of a best (girl)friend and a "real man". Women should be warmly welcoming CDs but instead they mostly reject them.
It has always seemed to me that social acceptance of CDing is going to come via teaching women, not just to accept CDing but to appreciate it - meaning a crossdressing man would be a desirable partner to have. If women were to welcome us then other men would be dragged down the road to social acceptance as usual and the whole social scene would change rapidly.
Gays made big strides in social acceptance not because (homophobic) men accepted them but because women did. All of a sudden it became trendy for women to have gay boyfriends as part of their social circle and this materialised itself in TV shows and magazines which meant that being gay was no longer a shameful behavoir. Men have adjusted their viewpoints to accommodate this new reality.
Women are the driving force behind changes in society and I hope the new generation of CDers will be more open and successful in making women realise the benefits and finally remove the guilt we all feel.
I am comfortable with statistics indicating that crossdressing behavoir affects about 5% of men. We are probably a much larger group than homosexuals. With the advent of the internet the time is ripe for women to be made aware that their social conditioning is at odds with reality and there are many men out there who would make wonderful partners if only they could see it. Of course responsible behavoir on the part of CDers is a prerequisite for women's acceptance so we have work to do from our side too.
Helena, well put. Just this weekend I had another talk about my xdring w/my SO. The conversation didn't go so well. Actually, she hardly participated. She was upset about something else. Bad timing on my part. But, I raised similar issues that when presented, I could tell we have good, undisputable points, in addition to the two you state here. She couldn't respond to them. Yet, even though these points are so accurate, have no explanation, I could just see it in her eyes, 'I still feel differently - xdring grosses me out and I don't want to see you, or think of you like that'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helana
Let the revolution begin.
Dana
Hi!
Well, it has been a full week since my life as a crossdresser took a different direction. I can happily report that we are still together and living as husband and wife. A real test will be our next opportunity to be intimate and to make love...young adults at home place a restriction on these activities. Up until last Friday, my wife had accepted my wearing a pair of her panties when we were intimate. It will be interesting to see how her having seen me dressed in lingerie will play out.
Ever since telling her two years ago of my lifelong practice and desires to wear women's lingerie, I have wanted to increase what I wore from just panties to include bras, stockings/pantyhose, etc. I've been relatively cautious and taking things slow because I have no way of judging what her reaction would be to several things, such as having breast (wearing breast forms in my 38C bras)--I'll address this later--but mainly whether it would be better for me to be wearing make-up and a wig. Basically, would she be more receptive to me appearing as a "total woman" with wig and make-up or just me in lingerie without wig and make-up? Which would be easier to accept?
With regard to breast forms, again, would my having breasts been too disconcerting for her to accept? She had once mentioned after learning of my transvestite proclivities that she did know if she could take seeing me with something on top, meaning wearing a bra. So, how would she react to seeing me with breasts? A full-busted woman. My intuition was telling me...not very well....my having breast would be too much.
So, for several months now, I'd been trying to decide which way to go. I loved wearing a bra with my breast forms; I loved the feeling of having breasts. I had not bought a wig or tried to wear make-up. I was torn and undecided...BUT....
Now that she's seen me wearing only lingerie, pantyhose, and heels, without a wig or makeup, this is moot point! I'm not so sure if she actually noticed my breast...but then again, how could she have missed it. She got a full frontal view of me in the doorway.
One lingering question for me is...could my use of a wig and wearing make-up have softened the blow for her? What do you ladies think?
Lastly, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to offer their points of view and expressed support. I'm determined to save my marriage and move forward by turning last Friday's event into a positive thing. For her, I know the sting and, more importantly, the hurt and mistrust is still there...lingering just under the surface. Consequently, I'm taking slow deliberate steps but also not going to allow the fact of my crossdressing get totally lost and again swept under the rug. My goal is to establish an agreement in which she is aware of my crossdressing and is knowledgable about crossdressing and transvestism, in general. I am hopefully that we can get to a point at which she and I can comfortably discuss the topic. Preferably, I would like us to come to terms which does not forbid my crossdressing--so I do not have to hid. Also, it is not necessary that we integrate my personna as Paula into our lives.
Well, ladies, thank you again for listening to me and allowing me to vent. I appreciate your being here for me. As usual, Paula must become invisible for the weekend as the family will be around.
I wish all of you have a good weekend...enjoy your femme side!
Hugs,
Paula J
All I can say from my experiences is that if she caught you in make-up and a wig she would have been even angrier. The more you look the part the more threatened they are.
Hi Paula,
Looks like I missed quite a bit during my week in Florida. We are soooo overdue for a chat now sis.
Quite frankly, I wondered when this would eventually happen. This type of scenerio was precisely why I told my wife about my CD'ing before we even got engaged, just so I wouldn't have to deal with what you will now be dealing with for quite sometime to come.
I was happy to read that you want to continue the marriage and try to get past this and make things right between the two of you. It will be an uphill climb for sure. I do think, however, that your wife overreacted somewhat considering that you had told her in the past of being a CD and promised to dress when no one else was home. Just because she hadn't actually experienced the "shock" of seeing you dressed before, it shouldn't have provoked that extreme a reaction from her. I also don't believe that knowing your desire to dress, that she should be telling you to get rid of the clothes. Some compromise is indeed, in order here, and that means she needs to start being more tolerant and understanding. A lot of frank discussions will be forthcoming, and you should welcome this. I would just advise that you not become defensive during the talks that you two will be having. This is a very large part of who you are Paula...something she needs to have a greater understanding about. Hopefully, she will be open-minded enough to being educated on the complexities of the CD and this will be the time that you need to both educate her and to reassure her of who you are and of the man that she married. She is going to run the full gamut of emotions for quite awhile now so be patient with her and just be there for her. Answer her questions openly and honestly....don't hold back. But don't apologize either. You have done nothing inherently wrong here. Just reassure her that whether dressed or not, you are still the man that she fell in love with and married.
Of course you have all of your sisters here on the site available to you for support...and you know I am always available for a chat with you. When you need me Paula...just PM me...I'll be here for you babe.
I wish you only the best and hope that you and your wife can work this out to your mutual benefit. You have too many years of marriage invested to let this come between you. You can work this out together. Best of luck always girlfriend....remember that I am here for you when you need me.;)
Love you,
Chrissie:)
I certainly hope everything works out for you my heart goes out to you both. maybe you need to sit down with each other and talk it through but remember do no push her into something she does not agree with, you will both regret it later. i count myself lucky i too was caught out by my wife but this was her finding my stash of clothing but i sat down a talked it through but to my suprise my wife actually accepted it and the only thing she did not like was the fact i had be hiding it away from her now its all in the open i feel better and we both have a happier relationship.
...give your wife a chance to digest what you have shown already. My guess is that wig, make-up and breast-form would be TOTAL DISASTER! You've got to segregate your fantasies from the reality of her initial reaction. Now...you're going to ask her to make love to a "fem" that used to be her husband??? REMIND YOURSELF of that reaction of a mere two weeks ago!
Patience....patience..patience...
Sincerely hope all goes well...
Karen
As I said in a previous post, I have been dressing for a while. My wife knew that I had a skirt, and have been wearing panties for quite a while now, and panty hose (with my wife's knowledge). I recently took photo's of me dressed, and left them where my wife could see them. She hasn't said that she doesn't want me to, either around her or not yet, but we are still talking about it. Guess that's a good sign, sort of.
Ariel,
As long as you and your wife are talking, that's a great sign. Gaining spousal acceptance is a very tough and definitely unknown road to travel. Although one may gain "acceptance", there are no guarantees that there may be a U-turn just around the next bend.
This morning as my wife was preparing to leave for work, she mentioned that I've been quiet lately. My response was that I hadn't changed. Then she said, "Oh, I know why" and left for work.
Well, it's good to know that the subject of my crossdressing has not been totally buried away in her mind.
So, keep at it and good luck!
Paula J.
My husband and I have been married for 15 years, together for 17. Less than a month ago I came home sick from work to find my husband vacuuming the house in boxer shorts stilettos and thigh highs. I will never forget the look of sheer terror on his face or the feeling of my heart literally spilling out onto the floor. He came over to me and hugged me, trembling...and I only half-heartedly hugged him. He wanted to talk and I told him I needed time, because even at the moment I knew it might be harmful to speak before I'd had a chance to absorb what I'd seen. He got himself ready and left for work...and I just cried all day. Did I cry just because he was wearing women's clothing? Absolutely not! I cried because I didn't know what this behavior meant to him....to us....or how to integrate the person I'd seen with the person I'd known for 17 years. Realistically I knew that they were one and the same....but what I'd seen was such an extreme departure from who I'd come to know that I was uncertain as to whether I'd ever really known him at all. I felt betrayed, even though I recognized that he had, in a way, betrayed a vital part of himself first.
My husband had always been a very "manly" man....who never displayed much emotion....so much so that many times in our marriage I felt as though he were de-feminizing me...by judging my sensitivity and nurturing nature. He was always very focused on what I looked like, as well....frequently buying me lingerie and jewelry and such. His concentration on my external self combined with his neglect of my "internal" self left me feeling as though, for all the years we'd been together, in many ways our relationship was shallow.
What I hadn't realized, is that his own "woman within" felt forced to live only vicariously through me. He loved me and resented me at the same time. He judged my own femininity harshly because he PERCEIVED that I would never be accepting of his.
When he came home that evening we talked....and I discussed with him the ideas I had....and he just cried and held me. I told him it was time that I was properly intoduced to his "woman within". Since then our relationship has flourished in ways that neither one of us could have imagined. We mutually empower one another are forging a much stronger relationship. I wish he had told me sooner and enabled me to be who I have always been....the one who will always love him.....no matter what!
Belledonna,
Thank you for your post. It gives me hope of gaining acceptance from my wife. To me, your post is especially significant since you're providing a perspective that is genetically and biologically the other side from the rest of us. And, believe me, that is very important. Too many times, without our knowing or realizing it, our comments, views, and statements contain biases that are grounded in the male perspective. Although we may think we being female and expressing feminine views, we are inadvertently displaying our values, mores, ethics, etc. etc. thru this male-oriented lens.
I am not putting anyone down here and don't intend to be demeaning in any way. I'm just raising a cautionary note in light of belledonna post.
Again, thank you.
Paula J
dear carrah i really enjoyed your thread about the how and why we crossdress and what our wifes think about it,i also was in the service and served in the navy during vietnam,doing two tours of duty on board my ship.my wife knows all about me now and like you said for the longest time we all cowered in shame ,scared what would they do if they ever found out.i endured that for 30 years and i finally had enough and i told her.so now i belong to one of the best cd groups in the new york city area cdi and i am enjoying every minute of being myself all my love sissy maid phylis anne :D :)
H!
Well I wrote a thread about this vary subject.It seems most cross dressers don't want to talk about telling their loves one untill it's too late.That vary bad because all your doing is lieing to your wife doing this behind her back,worse you have made her angry at you and for what? Nothing really other than sneaking around dressing and hiding dressed up?. This NOT what you want.You should of told her before you were married about this if she could come to terms with it fine otherwise you have to dress away from home or compremise.I just don't understand why so many TV'S CD'S aren't more honest to their families about their fun hobby? What do you people think this is? this is having fun cross dressing when you hide it like this as some are doing your only hurting yourself feeling guilty and making it worse for everyone in your family and etc.It's time you admit to your wife's and girlfriend's that you are a CD/TV something you'll NEVER EVER give up no matter how hard you try you'll always have the urge to cross dress! Good luck and hope you find a solution to your dressing up problem with you wife.
Parent's on the otherhand that you don't live with that don't know or friends that don't NEED to KNOW really don't need to know your a cross dresser only the people you live or with your wife girlfriend lover etc need to know about being a CD
HUGS
TIMMIE
It's something that many of us go through. I haven't been seen but I have been caught. I don't know who cried more between the both of us. What is important is how you move forward from this. Keep the lines of communication open but don't force the issue. The need for information by her will come over time if she truly wants to learn more. The real problem becomes whether or not she accepts the femme you. Be respectful, listen to her opinions and answer the questions truthfully!!! Good luck and keep us updated.
Hugs and prayers,
Rachel Denise
In 1997 I was outed. My wife's reaction was horrible. I tried to explain to her and answer all her questions. I found all sorts of things for her to read. I wanted to open up, alay her fears and use this as an experience to share something that I had hidden away for all of the years we had been together. She would have none of it. She was angry, would not listen, told me I could not dress in or out of her presence. It was awful. She went on anti-depressants and for years would barely talk to me or be intimate. She took everything femme that I had and threw it out. And that was that. Everytime that I would try and broach the subject again she would get angry and shut down. So I stopped. Somehow we have stayed together.
For years after that I did not dress at all. I was too afraid of getting caught again. Then I started dressing again. The urge was too strong. I started building up my wardrobe, I started joining back in the internet CD chats and communities. But then, she almost caught me again. So in a panic I grabbed everything up that I had and dumped it. I have not dressed since.
It has now been over a year since I have cross dressed and I miss it so very much. I keep hoping that a day will come when she will finally open up and talk to me about it. She has now known for 8 years and yet she never goes near the subject and I am deathly afraid to bring it up because of what happened back then.
While we have managed to stay together, I have had difficulty dealing with this. I see many of you continuing with your passion, our passion and I envy that. I feel that not being able to address this long standing issue keeps a distance between us. THough we still kiss and hug and make love (considerably less though), I want to share this part of me and reach a closer bond with her and she won't let me. I want to be able to recite the stories that I have seen from GGs who have said that this experience has enriched their relationship.
Now, although I do not dress (and desparately want to), I am having this secret online life where I read about what I cannot do. As I read more, I think more and more about whether I can continue not to express a very important part of me. I use other things (art collecting, books by women) to relieve some the frustration, but it really is not enough. I want to stay and build my relationship and yet feel that not resolving this issue creates a chasm in our life. I have thought more and more about being unfaithful (minimum case) with someone who is supportive or just plain leaving (I cannot believe that I am even thinking of this). It is something that I don't want to do and yet I feel more and more that I am painted into a wall in my life. I keep hoping for a miracle to happen and that one day out of the blue she will say something that will start us talking about a conversation that never got started 8 years ago. These days I find that I bury myself in my work to dull the feelings.
When I saw this topic it really hit a nerve for me. I don't envy Paula the path she has to go through because it is a tough road, however, I hope that her outcome is happier than mine has been. I have found over the past few months reading posts at this site has helped me think through some of these issues, but I am a long way from solving was seems to be unsovable. I am ashamed to admit that I am one of those who has started dallying with online relationships because I am so frustrated and I see no way out. I am very ashamed of this and actually reading these posts is also helping me to step back and look closer at that part of my behaviour and rethink what I am doing and why...
Good luck Paula,
Melissa
And that is why I am single and won't let a women have my heart.I can't deal with the drama.