As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger: What you mean "we," white man?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
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As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger: What you mean "we," white man?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
[SIZE="2"]I’ve said this before – my theory is that women don’t understand men wanting to look or “be” like women because they…are women! I mean, they’ve been there, done that, so what’s the big deal? Men have spent years with uncomfortable, unstylish clothing, so it’s obvious that nicer things (to wear or simply to touch) would be attractive to them. I don’t know how women feel about the clothes they’ve been wearing all or most of their lives, but, I’m guessing they’ve felt somewhat trapped by it – how else to explain their reaction? I’ve heard women complain about bras, hosiery, heels (ankle problems), makeup, wearing dresses or skirts in cold weather, and so forth. Any self-respecting woman would turn to a crossdressing male and think “why on Earth would you want to go through all that we have had to put up with?” I can see their viewpoint, but I think a more enlightened female would at least understand the urge to crossdress…Quote:
Originally Posted by helenr
I was thinking today that I have no problem understanding FtM crossdressing – I mean, being a crossdresser myself, I‘m tuned in to that wavelength, but I rewired my own brain years ago…:heehee:[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]Appearances can be deceiving. If you feel “safe” with your big, strong, masculine guy, that’s OK, but keep in mind that he (like most males) is bluffing his way through life on perceived strength. I speak from experience – I’ve been among these supposedly “strong” males my whole life, and they are as insecure as the rest of us. I wish you well…:straightface: [/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by kellycan27
[SIZE="2"]A wise statement…[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab Karen
If someone can define what a creep looks like and how they are supposed to behave then I would be very grateful so I could ensure that I don't possess any of those creepy qualities.
Or maybe creepiness is an entirely subjective label used to demean others who do not conform to your definition of normality.
So if someone finds your CDing "creepy" it actually tells you alot more about that person than it describes yourself. As others have said, it is small-minded people who have strict sexist ideas of what constitutes a man who get upset when their prejudices are challenged.
I find myself agreeing with you here Satrana ........ a rare occurrence we will both agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
but you see that last bit lets you down ........... because you then begin to demean those who do not conform to your idea of prejudices or rather your definition ....... just because some one does not agree with you does not make them small-minded people sorry just my :2c:Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
In general I find people creep me out by mannerisms, looks rather than by dress and I am a GG :)
I believe Buffalo Bill may have something to do with it, as well as a couple other real or mythical serial killers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCSZf...eature=related
I think some women are creeped out by CD'ing,hell yes. But really it seems like the ladies are more accepting than guys.
If you try to act and dress to blend in as a woman, even if you are a non-passable TS or CD, you should do fine.
What most people find "creepy" is when someone seems to want to publicly display their fetishes. If you are decently dressed, everything covered, honest effort on your looks, people probably won't even notice you. It is when you get these TS or CD who walk around with their butt hanging out of a too-short mini skirt or whatever that draws attention.
If someone likes to wear their intimates under their presentable clothes where the public cannot see it, no big deal. I don't think women find lingerie so sexy though, maybe on themselves but not on a TS or CD unless she truely has the body for it. Even then I don't imagine most GG's would be impressed.
I do think passable and non passable TS/CD each face slightly unique problems with things though.
If a TG is seen in public and isn't passing, but is decently dressed, the reaction would be mostly "OH hmm, well I thought it was a woman for a second." If a passable one has her cover blown, people really seem to freak.
"OMG, did you know Jane Transgirl is really a man?!"
Yeah but basically it is the public display of fetishes that bothers people. Not so much the gender variance.
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Originally Posted by Danielle H
You can thank the pop culture prototype for this I guess.
I totally agree Nicole... Leave the fetishes at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Erin
wow! so many reponses. thanks to all. I should try to clarify, if this helps. I think that for most of us, crossdressing is accompanied by a mental shift-we would prefer to pose and present as we percieve a woman would-sit like Leslie Stahl (60 minutes) , not like Joe College at a football talk. This probably isn't how most women would like to picture their guys deporting themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes, there is 'aping' that might be seen in a cheap burlesque and this may be part of the stereotyping that may go on. Clearly, if we are met in a non weird context, discussion carried on, etc on-it would become OK and less fearful to females. just my thoughts. best to all, helen
I think that some women are too close minded, I think they think we are creepy becuse we should wear jeans t-shirt and boots and not skirts or dresses. It's like we are invading their space.
I see your point. You can see much of this here, people who have accepting SO that come here and complain about their SO using their clothes without permission, calling them "he" instead of "she", not letting use specific wardrobes while in public...Quote:
Originally Posted by kellycan27
No one wants to be close to a whiner, and I sometimes see too much whining and self pity in CDs. To be too much self-centered can also be annoying. Being too obsessed about looks can show that a person is insecure. And watching an unattractive overweight aged man in the streets using a mini skirt that not even young girls would use, is kind of repulsive.
All this is not attractive to a woman, and can be perceived as creepy. Specially if you mix some of the above examples...
I agree completely! Fetish dressers when outside of clubs or private venues put the rest of us in a bad light.I don't care to be anywhere near these people...let them have the attention while I pass by unnoticed. But the image of the fetish dresser will stick in the minds of all that saw the "big trannie in the too tight minnie,with platform laceup boots" forever!!:2c:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Erin
I'm not sure why you think most woman would think CD's are creepy. If anything, it's unattractive. Some woman might not like it if their man doesn't want to be a man because they want a man, not a woman. If they wanted a woman, they'd be with one.
I know that for me.. I once was in a goodwill looking in the woman's section for particular types of clothing... (When I first did that it took a great sum of will and courage to attempt it. I knew that people would give me funny looks. Some younger people made comments about me. I knew people would think it was weird. However, I didn't care. My appetite needed to be quenched.) ..... One of the ladies that moved stuff around and worked at the cashier came over next to one of the racks nearby and grabbed one of the peices of clothing I had just looked at. I don't know if she was paying attention to what I was doing, but she lifted it up and asked the other coworker how it looked??? Then she put it back on the rack and resumed whatever she was doing. I felt so embarrased and did my best to ignore it and get what I wanted so I could leave. Anyway, that's what I've done in public. I haven't done that for years and don't plan to. For me this "hobby" is purely for sexual fun. I'm not trying to be a woman, nor do I want to be one. I do my best to hide it precisely because I'm not trying to creep anyone out. I have to try things to learn though and that means I make mistakes.
I'll admit though that I have no interest in being a hairy smelly sweating shirtless grunting muscleman. I'm more of the metro-type. I like being thin and being free. I mostly like who I am. A lot of woman don't like metro-sexuals because they're not attracted to it, but some are ok with it. I will say that metro-sexuals are not woman stuck inside a mans body. They're just males with a deeper appreciation for things on both sides of life. Why limit yourself to one thing? I could say the same thing for CD's. They're like explorers. We're all explorers in life, we're just in different places doing different things. We don't always understand eachother or understand the motives of one another. Sometimes we let fear get the best of us. Then again, this diversity is what makes life interesting - just so long as noeone gets hurt.
If anyone asked me what would be my ideal body I'd have to say something efficient, sleek, refined, and fast. I wouldn't say male or female. Is that creepy? Why? For the most part, males and females have issues. If you're going to have kids, you need a reproductive system and this means a lot of hassle. I'd go without one if I could. I guess to some extent, what scares people about CD's could be what scares them about gays. For example if everyone was gay we wouldn't have any children, correct? If all men wanted to be woman, we wouldn't have any men and wouldn't have any children. The bottom line is, we all live in fear too much and make broad generalizations too often. If you don't know that someone trully has ill intentions to harm someone, then don't feed those fears. There're more than enough men and woman in this world that want nothing else other than to be exactly what they were born as. There's no shortage of children, either. There's plenty of room for a bit of divergence, as long as it's peaceful in nature.
And do you really think SA's and the women you meet in public aren't saying anything at all about you when your back is turned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathi Lake
When people, including gg's, say "its That Guy", uh-oh!
They are probably saying "how nice you look" to other sales associates after you leave.
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Originally Posted by Jenny Brown
If you buy things - absolutely they're going to say "how nice you look". But after you leave, do you really truly believe they're saying that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie001
Of course people say things behind our backs but you're being far too cynical.Quote:
If you buy things - absolutely they're going to say "how nice you look". But after you leave, do you really truly believe they're saying that?
How do you know some of them aren't saying nice things about us?
Lili, a makeup person at the Nordstrom's in the King of Prussia Mall probably wouldn't have told me that several of her coworkers approached her to say how good I looked unless it really happened. Yes I bought some expensive Dior makeup from her and will do so again, but she doesn't have to make up stories to get me back because she was soooo nice to me in person that I want to go back anyway.
It is not hard to tell the difference between a person doing their job and just being polite and someone who is really interested and happy to deal with you as you are. When I was in Cinema II (a very nice wig store on S. Broad ) the women who looked me in the eye and told me how nice I looked were not just doing it for a laugh - I could tell they meant it. Hell, one of them, an older lady customer offered to give me a ride as we were leaving!
Would the 42 YO GG manager of the Sephora store on Chestnut readily accept my offer for a 'girls' lunch if she and her coworkers were laughing at me behind my back?
When I got my ears pierced, the 2 super cute teenage girls working at Clare's were absolutely wonderful, chatting and laughing with me. I'm a middle aged guy, but I know enough about cute teen agers to know that they would not be able to pretend that well. If they had been creeped out by me it would have shown.
I could go on and on. I'm sure people do talk about me but I believe a lot of it is probably positive, mostly because I'm really nice and super good looking!
All the Best,
Ann / SS
In my 60 plus years of crossdressing I have never heard a comment from a GG indicating she thought I was creepy! If such thoughts were uttered behind my back, so what!!
What I have heard is pretty much the opposite! During my 60 plus years I have spent many hours trying on various types of clothing, everything from the skin out. SA's have seen me in panties and bra, and completely dressed! I have been fitted for a bra on many occasions, in more than one store! The only type of comments from them is about how nice I looked!:) One SA, from whom I was buying a dress, begged me to tell her where I purchased the pretty panty and bra set I was wearing. And yes, she did know I was a man!! Pretty hard to disguise that when you are standing there in your panties!:heehee:
Early in out marriage some of our friends knew I CD'ed. Some of the ladies had been on shopping trips with my wife and I. So they also had seen my lingerie. No comments, other than compliments.
I think if you act creepy, you will be regarded as creepy! When I am dressed, I always try to act as though I belong in that clothing. I don't dress in outlandish clothing, in order to draw attention! I dress to please myself, not everyone else!
So,the T girl being in the store gave them something to talk about..so what!!It doesn't mean they feel the T girl is a creep.Some might be very jealous...we can fix our trucks and do our makeup!!!:2c:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny Brown
Look, you're most certainly entitled to believe whatever you want. But I have a very hard time believing that some of you are so naive as to really think these SA's don't talk about you behind your back. It's human nature.
People will say one thing to your face but when you're gone - it's a completely different story. They get paid to make you feel good and make sales. But hey, if it works for you - that's all that matters, Right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtsuit
Jenny -
What part of this leads you to think I'm naive?
Read the new thread on the Dress Barn in the Clothing Talk section. Do SAs normally ask customers out to diner, or are they just out for the sale?Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtsuit
Of course people say things behind our backs but you're being far too cynical.
I'll say it again - Of course people talk behind our backs.
All the Best,
Ann / SS
I think if you seen it on television where the shows are produced to give a negative to one extreme while giving a positive on a dog of a man.
For the most part it is about how you carry yourself! For me women have not been an issue in public and I think it is on how I present myself publicly.
The creepy feeling is when they see a full bearded man dressed using the ladies room!
I don't have much experience with this, but so far I have not found that women find crossdressers and transexuals to be creepy. Of course, some must feel this way, but that's really a "bell-curve" kind of thing. For the most part, I think that women are pretty accepting and supportive of CDs.
Wow, talk about getting on the bus after the gate is shut (or how ever that saying goes), stay away for a bit and you fall way behind. Anyway, I've had a few "professionals" rationalize that GG's see us as no threat to their world (more so for gay men), but CD's, at least in my case, find that most women see me more as a curiosity than any kind of "creepy" person. and if I get to know them long enough prove my innocence, and that I'm harmless to their world. When I'm out socializing I usually find myself surrounded by more Gay and Lesbian people than straight, so I just enjoy:heehee:
p.s. I buy and wear my own "unmentionables":o
I wonder if Nature has any effect? The need to reproduce the human race and competition for a mate. Could be they see us as competition...lol.
I bought two pairs of high heels this Halloween and the sales associates seemed to enjoy helping me. They really liked seeing me walk around in them.
I don't think they thought I was creepy. They asked me to come back completely dressed.
No, that's not it. Most GGs I know don't regard gay guys as creepy, in fact most of them love their gay friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelliboots
Well lets take a long hard look at some things considered normal or OK in the CD universe shall we?
Cross dressing in general -
If you want to wear a dress n heels fine go right ahead, but either do it proudly with your beard [as a man in a dress] or do everything and try to look and act like a real girl.
But for frack sakes, don't plaster 10lbs of makeup on top of a 10 o'clock shadow and have a hairy body with 44DDD's covered with a tube top and equally hairy legs barely covered by a micromini skirt that looks more like a belt and then try to tell me, or anyone else your a lady.
You want to dress and act like Brittney Spears fine - but if your not 22 or just don't have the body for it then Please keep it to yourself and at home.
Breasts -
What is with all the talk about getting breasts???
Come on - Really?? What the f*ck are you thinking?
Unless you are a full-time cd'er or a ts you don't need breasts.
And what are you going to do when you get them??
Ask questions like - can I hide 45 DD's under a sweat shirt while at work??
Or maybe ask the transguys how to bind them during the week
I may want breasts, [because I'm a TS that's why]
but not because I think they would be cool to have or fun to play with.
Relationships -
There seems to be an overload of whiney its all about me me me posts lately.
Here I am pretty much avoiding a relationship right now because I don't want to heap all this transitioning crap I'm going through onto some poor unsuspecting person yet all I see are posts about how you are the victim all the time.
Never do you hear someone say YES it is all my fault, I take full responsibility and I am sorry for putting my wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever through all of this. And I learned my lesson and will not do it again. Nope, just all back to me me me, with a new SO and how do I tell them its been XX months now.
Shopping -
Either say proudly - YES this is for me, or use the present for a SO or whatever other excuse you may or may not need to get you through the day.
But don't spend an hour in a store pawing through thongs with a look of - I left my overcoat in my double parked blacked out windowless van outside.
Oh - and the "I get stares while in the woman's section - BS!, and I will tell you why, next time your in the mens section take a look at how many stares women get from other men for being there. They don't just stroll in without no one caring, you just don't notice it, or even think your doing it when you give a woman a look while waiting for her to get out of your way to shop. Think about it.
Dressing -
In short - dress your age - or just go sooooo over the top you cant help but to be looked at, at then be proud of it, don't try and do both, or again weight 285lbs while trying to pull off a Brittney schoolgirl look and NOT expect to get looked at.
Clothes -
Figure out your size - 2 sizes 2 small is never a good look, and for fracks sake buy your own clothes - nothing says creepy x100 to a girl then to have her walk into a room and seeing you wearing her clothes.
Never come between a girl and her wardrobe, never, lol.
That is like borrowing your friends snap-on tools without asking. :D
Most women I see have little to no problem with CD'ers, if its done well or at least with a genuine effort.
Was this helpful hints or just a late night rant? That is for you to decide, :lol2:
[SIZE="1"]Disclaimer: I am not saying what I wrote pertains to every CD'er, these are just my observations from this site and my thoughts regarding them. Some may pertain to you, some may not.[/SIZE]
What Samantha said!!!!
Eh, probably just afraid we're gonna raid their wardrobes!!:devil:
I'm sure not so long ago i stumbled on a you tube video and this girl said that crossdressers are creepy...till this one made me feel a lot better....ok i don't agree or condone with everything she says but she is accepting and definetely doesn't appear creeped out..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5leE9B_Hzkk
This could be the proof as to why -
Ya - WoW - Talk about someone getting ready to feed Peaches and tell the girl in the basement to put the lotion on the skin.
I feel many do. I'm not, but don't mind if a guy whistles.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelliboots
Yep.... serious creepy factor there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamanthaM
and your first post... spot on!
*hugs*
Zarabeth
Excellent!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SamanthaM
Rant or no rant, it's all true..
And finally at the very least an very honest post saying it as it is, which I also just so happen to agree with..
:hugs:
Yay Samantha! and that does not just pertain to TG's, take responsibility for your actions. You break something don't say it was built badly. You get a speeding ticket don't say everyone else was doing it. In my thread I am trying to get Tg's in general to stand up. say "look at me!" It is like history does indeed repeat itself but with a new minority. Things tend to grow and thrive when brought into the light. Things wither and die in the dark. This illogical feeling that one cannot wear a beard and a dress is just that illogical
This subject is kinda hard to see from our point of view, but really, I do believe that most, not all Females grow up with their Ideal Man in mind. It does not include a Man that wears Female clothing, and when girls are young they are in the "ewwww that is creepy" sence. I am not saying all girls go through this growing up, but I do believe that most do. I heard my GGfriend the other day talking to a Lady she worked with and is good friends with, I heard her friend on the phone say, "Is he OK, he's not wierd or anything is he?" Of course she said "no" (she does know but has never seen me dressed) I believe the problem is a peer pressure thing really. I mean us as guys have talked with other guys saying "what kind of girl do you like?" Well, the girls do the samething and then they get into "some guys are so wierd, yea they wear womens clothes and all kinds of crap." and of course no woman really wants a man that beats her or runs her into the ground as a tramp. But the Guys beating their wives or girlfriends is not as bad as the wierdo that wears womens clothes.
Now, don't get me wrong, I know there are a lot of Ladies out there that know about and work around guys that wear womens clothes, but ask one of them if they would ever marry one, and if she says "yes" then ask her to say it in front of her Peers. She won't do it. She would no longer be Jane, but rather the wierd girl that wants her guys dressed like women. It is a very strange thing, and Males do have it ruffer than Females when it comes to crossdressing. Recently there was a vote around here about discrimination of crossdressers. One politician said "I don't want to see Tom come in one day in a dress and the next day in a mans suite, it would be to disruptive in a job enviroment." Yet, Females can do this any day all the time and no one says anything. I someday hope that it will change and will not be this way, but I do not see it happening in my lifetime.
Great thread going here!
I wear women's clothing every day, even to work. (self employed).
In the summer, always short shorts with ladies sneakers and usually a toned-down shirt.
My negative experiences recently have been with a two female cashiers at a local convenience store on my everyday morning stops for coffee. One in particular makes it very clear that she stares at my clothing, shoes and legs. No comments were made but rather her attitude is clearly visible and rather snotty. Believe me, all of us can pick up those kind of vibes.
Several times, especially if I go a bit overboard with the clothes.... she will clearly address me with a loud SIR!
I do believe that some women think that we are "strange" for not wearing the appropriate clothing. I dress this way normally and I don't show signs of nervousness for them to pick up on. I'm rather casual about it.
I recently received an anonymous note in the mail at my office. Inside was a magazine article clipping regarding men who wear short-shorts and tights! There was handwriting on the clipping asking me to ignore the text of the clipping, and, that (we) love your legs.
Along with this was another note stating that "we've been watchin' you"....signed, "the girlz in your hood" followed by 3 hearts!
Now if there was something creepy, that would be it!
Yes Amy, women come dresses either fem or masculine all of the time. You can see this everywhere, but it is really important to understand that male crossdressing is not the same. The reason it is different is that when Jane puts on male clothing and comes into the office, she is not pretending to be male. That is the big difference! You can still tell that she is female. That is the main reason that I believe my form of crossdressing which includes simply incorporating female clothing and items into my otherwise male appearance is more acceptable to society. I am not attempting to make anyone believe that I am female. I am simply incorporating fem items into my look just as many women incorporate male clothing items into their look. Does this make sense?
:2c: Jamie
Amy stated:
It is a very strange thing, and Males do have it ruffer than Females when it comes to crossdressing. Recently there was a vote around here about discrimination of crossdressers. One politician said "I don't want to see Tom come in one day in a dress and the next day in a mans suite, it would be to disruptive in a job enviroment." Yet, Females can do this any day all the time and no one says anything. I someday hope that it will change and will not be this way, but I do not see it happening in my lifetime.
[SIZE="2"]Appearances can be deceiving. If you feel “safe” with your big, strong, masculine guy, that’s OK, but keep in mind that he (like most males) is bluffing his way through life on perceived strength. I speak from experience – I’ve been among these supposedly “strong” males my whole life, and they are as insecure as the rest of us. I wish you well…:straightface: [/SIZE]
I am not sure what your interaction with these "supposedly" strong men has been, but let me tell you this. I am not some fuzzy, frilly, obedient little girl who gets weak in the knees because some guy shows interest. I have definite ideas of what I am looking for in a guy, and he better be able to tow the line. He needs to be able to handle himself if he ever has hopes of handling me. I am not talking just physical strength, I am talking strength of character, self confidence, honesty,compassion,caring and kindness.
Insecure as the rest of us? Not me! I m very secure in myself and with what I am. A guy may try and bluff, but if he doesn't have the traits that I have mentioned he'll soon out himself,just by virtue of trying to keep up with me, and my beliefs. No need for you to wish me luck.. I make my own.:straightface:
Kelly
Jamie,
I understand what you are saying, but who is to say that Jane is not trying to be a man that day. See, we never know and we never will know how that Female feels when she dresses like a Male, I mean she could go back and forth and no one would say anything either. Who's to say the guy that comes in in a dress is trying to be female that day, maybe he just wants to do it.
I bought a pair of shoes this halloween and the sales girls said the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Green
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Originally Posted by DaphneGrey
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Originally Posted by Lady Zarabeth
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Originally Posted by Karen564
Thank you all for your kind words and support :D :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah