Why do u hate, "Drag queens"?

It never ceases to amaze me how such a significant segment of a population like CDs, who face discrimination, misunderstanding, prejudice, and generalized dislike-- can turn around and dish the same stuff at other people. And just as remarkable, for a population that is so set apart from the norm, is the running feeling with some people here that the only "right" way to be a crossdresser is their way. Tells you a lot about people in general.

For those who feel DQs are "not part of the CD spectrum" or "as different as a VW and a Greyhound Bus", you might want to reconsider-- VWs and buses, after all, are both motor vehicles and roll on four wheels. Where does the "CD spectrum" start and stop? Are underdressers part of it? Fetish crossdressers? Do you have to be full time to be a true CD? What about closeted girls?

Bottom line, crossdressing takes on a lot of different forms for a lot of different reasons for a lot of different people. I don't agree with them all, or even understand them all. But to dismiss them or denigrate them because they are beyond my comprehension or outside of my tastes is the very definition of bigotry. I'd expect better here.

I love drag queens! I think they are beautiful and have got some great makeup tips from them. Most have been sweethearts, the ones Ive met. Also they have done a lot for the gay community at large if you know your history. I am not gay, but appreciate all those who have stood on the frontlines to bring acceptance to minorities. Also thanks to Rupaul I became familiar with MAC products. If someone asks me if IM a drag queen my answer, Hon, I can only aspire to being a drag princess!

I think Tina is spot on.

The public perception is the key here. The movies that are out are mostly about Drag Queens. I don't know of any movies that really present cross dressers or even transsexuals in the proper perspective.

The public thinks that we are all gay, it is all about sex or being promiscuous, all of us wear "over-the-top" makeup, wigs, clothing, etc.

Now from one stand point I can see where someone that isn't any of these things would dislike someone that promoted these things and perpetuated the stereotype that we are all like that.

On the other hand, we need the gay community because they are the only ones with the balls (excuse the pun) to get out and be open and fight for their cause. They are actually fighting for us in a round about way. If they (gays, lesbians, Drag Queens) can gain acceptance then the public will have no problem accepting a toned down version...straight, mild-mannered, conservative, passable, transgendered individuals.

Kisses,

Allie

They just get so upset with me when I go out and create the impression that Drag Preformers occasionally attempt to dress in normal women's clothing.

Nah, I don't have anything against Drag, I stand in awe at their moxie and skills. What bothers me is the way they hog the media spot light with all those sparkles and platform shoes. It really attracts attention and the illusion results in an impression that they are typical of crossdressing. Those who want to foster understanding of crossdressing have so many stereotypes to overcome before honest discourse can begin. This is one of them. However, if like me, you are starting to believe that it doesn't matter if the general public understands or not, Drag is great.

I just want to find out where they buy bulk blue eyeshadow.

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Originally Posted by Veronica75

It never ceases to amaze me how such a significant segment of a population like CDs, who face discrimination, misunderstanding, prejudice, and generalized dislike-- can turn around and dish the same stuff at other people. And just as remarkable, for a population that is so set apart from the norm, is the running feeling with some people here that the only "right" way to be a crossdresser is their way. Tells you a lot about people in general.

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Veronica -- I straddle the fence of agreeing and disagreeing with what you are saying. Yes, it is wrong, very wrong, to have a hate or bigotry against any ally in the CD spectrum. But, it is not wrong to not like what they do.

Let me frame that this way. As many know from my other posts, I am a proud and obedient Roman Catholic. I love and admire priests and nuns. Yet some, I think its 10% +/-, have engaged in horrific and wicked sexual practices against children. I abhor this activity. Does me make me hate all priests or nuns? No. Yet, some people paint all Catholic religious this way. What they did is so incredibly wrong, but it doesn't change the underlying truths (for Christians) of what the Church teaches.

So, my point being, that the activities of some drag queens do not sit well with me. Granted they are not on the scale of sexual abuse of children, but nonetheless, I don't like the activities. Those activities don't invalidate the struggle that we all on the gender spectrum go through for acceptance. However, the uninformed public will paint all of us with the same type of broad brush that they use to paint all priest and nuns with as above. Likewise, the activities of the extreme among drag queens does not give me a right to hate drag queens in total. And -- the same logic means that I can not hate all non-CD/TG people because some among them, hate us!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

PS - forgive me if am sound argumentative like a certain person who is not among us any more. Such is not my intent.

I don't hate anybody. Weell maybe thin people who can eat anything they like and never gain an ounce

Vieja

You make a good point Tina. What is out there in the world and is plainly visible tends to be the image most people have. It has been that way (and remains that way) for many ethnic, religious and "lifestyle" people. So once again:sb: the only way to fight this ignorance is to be out and about. The best thing that could happen for TG's would be for a person in a visible respected position to "come out" and not use it as a ploy for publicity (like a certain fighter recently :brolleyes:). *drags :sb: back in the corner*

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Originally Posted by Toni_Lynn

So, my point being, that the activities of some drag queens do not sit well with me. Granted they are not on the scale of sexual abuse of children, but nonetheless, I don't like the activities.

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... leading you to slur them with "guilt by association" of a strongly repulsive group together with a weak disassociation from that group so that you can claim that you didn't really slur them. :lame: That's a well-known rhetorical technique often used in politics, and it works because humans react emotionally "as we go along" and don't come down from that emotion and experience a strong counter-emotion immediately upon hearing a contrary fact (especially a weakly put one.) Not cool :(


Like Veronica said, I don't think we ought to be putting anyone down over their manner of presentation.

It would be different if the drag queens were deliberately mocking cross-dressers just for being ourselves (keeping in mind that mockery and satire can be helpful to the extent that it has something to teach us.) Possibly some drag queens do that in other places, but I have never experienced it here in Winnipeg; on the contrary, the drag queens here are amongst the people who come over and encourage me.

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

... leading you to slur them with "guilt by association" of a strongly repulsive group together with a weak disassociation from that group so that you can claim that you didn't really slur them.

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I think you are reading a bit into what I wrote, for surely had I not written what I wrote, I could just as easily be accused of implying something by similar reading between the lines.

In any event, I in no way shape or form wish to associate one sub-group of a larger group who do activities that I do not like with another. I am simply saying that within any group there are those whose activities will be looked upon with disdain by someone, and this is no reason to hate the entire group as a whole.

I'll extend it again in a purely Canadian context. I don't hate, and in fact one shouldn't hate, francophone Quebecois or members of the Bloc or PQ, because of the actions of the FLQ, or even the actions of the Bloc or PQ who wish to separate from the nation.

I am sorry if you think I meant otherwise by my thoughts or statements.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veronica75

It never ceases to amaze me how such a significant segment of a population like CDs, who face discrimination, misunderstanding, prejudice, and generalized dislike-- can turn around and dish the same stuff at other people. And just as remarkable, for a population that is so set apart from the norm, is the running feeling with some people here that the only "right" way to be a crossdresser is their way. Tells you a lot about people in general.

For those who feel DQs are "not part of the CD spectrum" or "as different as a VW and a Greyhound Bus", you might want to reconsider-- VWs and buses, after all, are both motor vehicles and roll on four wheels. Where does the "CD spectrum" start and stop? Are underdressers part of it? Fetish crossdressers? Do you have to be full time to be a true CD? What about closeted girls?

Bottom line, crossdressing takes on a lot of different forms for a lot of different reasons for a lot of different people. I don't agree with them all, or even understand them all. But to dismiss them or denigrate them because they are beyond my comprehension or outside of my tastes is the very definition of bigotry. I'd expect better here.

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YES! could not have said it better.

It's and artform, like Kabuki or Noh in Japan. It's entertainment, and as soon as the performance is over they don't stay en femme, it's a costume, and one that like Victoria pointed out that the distinctions are lost on the general public, and yep, that's why we all get lumped together, most straights just don't get it, so don't hate the DQ's and DK's. We are all part of the "Gender Gifted." Can't we all just get along? Carol.

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Originally Posted by Toni_Lynn

Veronica -- I straddle the fence of agreeing and disagreeing with what you are saying. Yes, it is wrong, very wrong, to have a hate or bigotry against any ally in the CD spectrum. But, it is not wrong to not like what they do.

Let me frame that this way. As many know from my other posts, I am a proud and obedient Roman Catholic. I love and admire priests and nuns. Yet some, I think its 10% +/-, have engaged in horrific and wicked sexual practices against children. I abhor this activity. Does me make me hate all priests or nuns? No. Yet, some people paint all Catholic religious this way. What they did is so incredibly wrong, but it doesn't change the underlying truths (for Christians) of what the Church teaches.

So, my point being, that the activities of some drag queens do not sit well with me. Granted they are not on the scale of sexual abuse of children, but nonetheless, I don't like the activities. Those activities don't invalidate the struggle that we all on the gender spectrum go through for acceptance. However, the uninformed public will paint all of us with the same type of broad brush that they use to paint all priest and nuns with as above. Likewise, the activities of the extreme among drag queens does not give me a right to hate drag queens in total. And -- the same logic means that I can not hate all non-CD/TG people because some among them, hate us!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

PS - forgive me if am sound argumentative like a certain person who is not among us any more. Such is not my intent.

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Of course, everyone has opinions on things, likes and dislikes. What bothers me is people who say this or that is "wrong", or think men who wear women's clothing for different reasons than they wear women's clothing somehow don't qualify as CDs, or who make sweeping generalizations about a particular group of people. You have stated your bad experiences with certain DQs, and your reasons for disagreeing with them. That's not bigotry, and your position is not the kind of thing I'm talking about.

As for drag queens, I've met some horrid DQs (I went out dressed in NYC, after all) but also some very kind and supportive ones, sometimes incredibly so. Some of them act in ways that might cast a poor light on CDs in general, but the same could be said for many "normal" CDs.

It's just sad to see that being a member of a group that suffers terribly under prejudice and broad generalizations about their lifestyle doesn't stop certain folks from engaging in the same narrowmindedness. Like I said, less a statement on crossdressers than on human frailty in general.

What I 'hate' is having other people apply incorrect assumptions upon me based on their own lives. In particular, that they feel I am either gay or just in denial of it, and that eventually they think I will just have some sort of an epiphany or something and join their ranks.

I don't 'hate' drag queens. However, I usually don't appreciate the results of their well over the top and 'in your face' actions, which the world interprets (truthfully or not) as the 'I'm here and I'm queer get used to it' sort of thing, which makes most of the world think that any guy who wears woman's clothing is gay, and makes it harder for the rest of us.
I know they do it simply to reinforce their own opinion of themselves, their self esteem being elevated by feeling that there are more people like themselves out there, but it does get tiring having to explain myself over and over and over and over and over.
I have no problem with gay people. I have no problem with straight people. I have no problem with bi people. And it pisses me off when so many of them seem to have a problem with accepting what I tell them I am.