Admirers

Admirer, chaser; crossdresser, transvestite... Isn't it amazing how much sugar we'll put on words to sweeten them up?

Way back when, I found they, "admirers", came in one of two types: the "Hi, how are you" type, and the "What are you wearing" type. I'd say the latter outnumbered the former significantly, at least from what I've seen. I'm sure that like everything else, there's another side to everyone and everything.

I have no idea what the face-to-face scene is like, so temper this accordingly.

The former may be a patient version of the latter, or may actually be a nice guy. The latter thinks we're here to give him some. I mean, we're guys dressed like girls, and the only reason to do that is because we don't have an "ask me, I'm easy" sign that's light enough to carry around. :rofl:

As for the people drooling on the sidelines... he either wants to join in and show off his new lacy undies too, but he's afraid that his buddy that gave him a ride to the club "just wouldn't understand;" or they can't be bothered, knowing that their reason for being there will get fulfilled regardless of themselves.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

So why doesn't the fantasy fall apart when she also knows that the very reason an admirer wants her is because of her penis? In other words, he doesn't want to be with a woman, but with a guy in a dress. Else he'd be chasing GGs.

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That's not the reason the admirer wants her. He just doesn't care that she has one. Doesn't matter to him either way. GG, CD, TG, whatever. For him, they all have one thing in common: a desire to be in the... receptive position. The "admirer" is just looking for the faster cheaper way to get it.

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Originally Posted by rogina garter

As far as my thoughts,Misty was right on! And I'll add that sometimes admirers have a fetish for some of "our look"[foundations,stockings,etc] that have gone by the wayside in the real GG world. So, we become a walking,talking ,model for them to enjoy.Something that is impossible in the real world. Enjoy the attention,it is only bad if you make it that way!:2c:

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Sarah said

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We went along to a regular event last night - magic-theatre.co.uk - but found that it wasn't as good as it usually is. The reason (we think?) is because there were a lot of 'admirers' or 'tranny chasers' there.

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Where does that equate to GG's not wearing stockings etc in the real world ......... this was a specific dress up night, TG and GG were dressed, Sarah does not mention the GG's were being admired or chased, but the TG

I agree with the basic premise Misty presented (if I interpreted it correctly). Basically, "it is what it is".

You can't go to a circus and not expect to see clowns. Plus you do not have to join a circus to be a clown.

When you venture outside of the "mainstream", it is unrealistic to expect behavior to be "mainstream". It is just the price of admission. Regardless of what the key issue of a particular "group or community" may be, if it falls outside the boundries of society norms, it naturally attracts many of those with interests that do not exactly fall within the normal expectations of those in mainstream society.

I think it is illogical and unrealistic to expect the same respect, interaction and acceptance that GGs experience in mainstream society, when we are not a part of the mainstream. Common sense to me. It would be nice, but so would not having to work, yet having an endless supply of money in my bank account, lol.

There are all types of people, in any segment of life you choose to reside or visit. Just like everything else, you deal with the good and bad that comes with the party you attend. There are challenges everywhere in life, and happiness is determined by your attitude and what you choose to focus on.

just my thoughts.

:love:

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

Back to reality, and reality sucks, because any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labeled a "chaser" and by definition must be creepy and predatory. That's not fair and frankly some of you girls may need to take a broom to your own doorsteps before you start with the judging.

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I disagree. I don't think any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labelled a 'chaser'. I keep on repeating that. What I have an issue with - out of prejudice, ignorance, fear, loathing... whatever - is a particular type of of person who thinks that a tranny is an easy option and guarantee of sex.

It seems that the consensus is fairly evenly divided - those who agree that these guys are a bit creepy and those who're quite happy to have them around.

Perhaps it's up to the venue to enforce a stricter dress code - these guys never dress with any effort - and consider an entrance fee hike, since they apparently don't like to spend much money either. The one thing that's made this night out so much fun has been the diversity of attendees. If that diversity shrinks down to just trannies and admirers... well, it changes the whole dynamic.

i am still loving this thread and learning alot...i wish some more folks that like trans people would chime in...

one observation is that in a setting where there are transfolk, there simply is not that many guys showing up, and some of them are wracked with the same guilt and shame issues we tend to have...and many of them are married or have SO's and they are doing this in secret...ummmmm, do any of you do this in secret? i know the answer, and i also know that you do it with a wonderful disguise of a totally different persona and your chance of getting caught out at the party is much less...

in a typical meat market bar...those lurking guys are a dime a dozen but there are soooo many guys that they don't stand out as much...

yes the stereotypical guys in trenchcoats that come up and ask if your boobs are real dont get it..and it's obvious that is all Sarah was saying in her post

unfortunately...for those of us that look down on the "Creepy" guys, now you know how some folks feel about us..:straightface:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

unfortunately...for those of us that look down on the "Creepy" guys, now you know how some folks feel about us..:straightface:

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And unfortunately you're probably right. Part of that, I suspect, is to do with the furtiveness of the CDers themselves. Add the 'chasers' to the mix and you end up with an unpleasant environment to be in. A down and seedy atmosphere.

Those who're able to celebrate their transgenderism, go out and about and dress and seem to have a healthy (or healthier) level of self-respect. It's what we try to instill in teenage girls - don't give yourself away so easily, value yourself and others will value you too.

This may be a little surprising because I date Men all the time, but it seems those who call themselves admirers are creepy indeed wanting only a quick, well you know. Willow

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Originally Posted by eluuzion

I think it is illogical and unrealistic to expect the same respect, interaction and acceptance that GGs experience in mainstream society,

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But why are you not a human being, entitled to the same common curtesy and respect as any other human ? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

Don't give yourself away so easily, value yourself and others will value you too.

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Now that is sound advice :)

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

I found myself questioning what it is about these individuals that I find... well, a bit creepy.
I also find that they seem to 'letch' and drool a bit too much.

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Agreed! Yes, there are a few gentlemen out there,,, but as a rule, (see above)

Hmmmm, lets recap 3 pages

Judges say....wait we have a late vote coming in.....here we are...

Introverts!!!....wait what does that mean announcer guy...

It means:

Definition: Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. In fact, being shy has little to do with being an introvert! Shyness has an element of apprehension, nervousness and anxiety, and while an introvert may also be shy, introversion itself is not shyness. Basically, an introvert is a person who is energized by being alone and whose energy is drained by being around other people.

Introverts are more concerned with the inner world of the mind. They enjoy thinking, exploring their thoughts and feelings. They often avoid social situations because being around people drains their energy. This is true even if they have good social skills. After being with people for any length of time, such as at a party, they need time alone to "recharge."

Whew! So in other words Mr announcer guy, all of us are introverts for being uncomfortable around the very ppl that we either seek to meet or seek to meet us....

So how do we deal with it?

Dont let other people get to you......
Dont let others ruin your good time....

People can be creepy anywhere, it seems to me that a single person would be lonley forever if they chased off every person who chased them.... just saying

-Donni-

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Originally Posted by willowgurl

This may be a little surprising because I date Men all the time, but it seems those who call themselves admirers are creepy indeed wanting only a quick, well you know. Willow

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You date men all the time but you don't like "admirers"? Your dates don't like trannies?

Listen T-girls, this is not fantasy land. We have MEN'S bodies. I know how we may feel about that, but the sad reality is that Mr hunky straight man is NOT going to date us openly. He is NOT going to introduce us to his friends. There are plenty of great looking and interesting guys out there who like T-girls but apparently the problem with them is they LIKE T-GIRLS so they're just too damn creepy.

My favorite guys are the ones who look, act and identify as "straight" but let's be serious here. I know and you know and they know that what we do together in bed isn't exactly "straight". It's not exactly gay either but that's because we're T-girls!

Some of these guys are indeed awful and they have about as much chance of getting under my skirt as they would Sarah's but just because a third of this group is disgusting doesn't mean the other guys aren't worthwhile.

Somebody brought up the undercover CD's who are out in secret and probably cheating on their wives. So maybe they hook up with some of these grubbier chasers. They deserve each other as far as I'm concerned, but they're grown up people doing grown up things.

I have had a fling or two, but it's ALWAYS on my terms. I'm not desperate for male attention as somebody said, but if I want to go out and play with the boys, and if I find myself attracted to someone, and if I end up sleeping with them, then I'm afraid that's just what's gonna happen and there's not a whole lot you're gonna do about it.

I don't need another mother, I'm not all that impressed with the one I was born with.

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Reine, the reason the fantasy doesn't fall apart is because the fantasy doesn't go that deep. When I'm with a man, I know he knows what my anatomy has in store for him. He knows I know and neither of us pretend. Some guys like to ignore it, some guys don't. Each one of us has different needs and desires. My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with. I have a penis so I use it. What else am I supposed to do with it? I don't have another way of getting it done. I will say that if a guy seems overly interested in that tiny appendage then I tend to lose interest in him and he won't be getting any happy time. ...but that's just me and there are many many gurls who know how to wield the sword if you know what I mean.

I also feel like I need to say that my opinions are firmly rooted in the CD/part time tranny perspective. The rules may change a bit for those girls that are full time and/or pre-op. I personally know some ladies that have had relationships with men that might have been otherwise straight. My presentation isn't quite there yet. :Angry3:

-Misty

Well, you cleared that up! :D Thanks Misty. :hugs:

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

You date men all the time but you don't like "admirers"? Your dates don't like trannies?

Listen T-girls, this is not fantasy land. We have MEN'S bodies. I know how we may feel about that, but the sad reality is that Mr hunky straight man is NOT going to date us openly. He is NOT going to introduce us to his friends. There are plenty of great looking and interesting guys out there who like T-girls but apparently the problem with them is they LIKE T-GIRLS so they're just too damn creepy.

My favorite guys are the ones who look, act and identify as "straight" but let's be serious here. I know and you know and they know that what we do together in bed isn't exactly "straight". It's not exactly gay either but that's because we're T-girls!

Some of these guys are indeed awful and they have about as much chance of getting under my skirt as they would Sarah's but just because a third of this group is disgusting doesn't mean the other guys aren't worthwhile.

Somebody brought up the undercover CD's who are out in secret and probably cheating on their wives. So maybe they hook up with some of these grubbier chasers. They deserve each other as far as I'm concerned, but they're grown up people doing grown up things.

I have had a fling or two, but it's ALWAYS on my terms. I'm not desperate for male attention as somebody said, but if I want to go out and play with the boys, and if I find myself attracted to someone, and if I end up sleeping with them, then I'm afraid that's just what's gonna happen and there's not a whole lot you're gonna do about it.

I don't need another mother, I'm not all that impressed with the one I was born with.

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Reine, the reason the fantasy doesn't fall apart is because the fantasy doesn't go that deep. When I'm with a man, I know he knows what my anatomy has in store for him. He knows I know and neither of us pretend. Some guys like to ignore it, some guys don't. Each one of us has different needs and desires. My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with. I have a penis so I use it. What else am I supposed to do with it? I don't have another way of getting it done. I will say that if a guy seems overly interested in that tiny appendage then I tend to lose interest in him and he won't be getting any happy time. ...but that's just me and there are many many gurls who know how to wield the sword if you know what I mean.

I also feel like I need to say that my opinions are firmly rooted in the CD/part time tranny perspective. The rules may change a bit for those girls that are full time and/or pre-op. I personally know some ladies that have had relationships with men that might have been otherwise straight. My presentation isn't quite there yet. :Angry3:

-Misty

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You said it all, girl. :hugs:

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

You date men all the time but you don't like "admirers"? Your dates don't like trannies?

Listen T-girls, this is not fantasy land. We have MEN'S bodies. I know how we may feel about that, but the sad reality is that Mr hunky straight man is NOT going to date us openly. He is NOT going to introduce us to his friends. There are plenty of great looking and interesting guys out there who like T-girls but apparently the problem with them is they LIKE T-GIRLS so they're just too damn creepy.

My favorite guys are the ones who look, act and identify as "straight" but let's be serious here. I know and you know and they know that what we do together in bed isn't exactly "straight". It's not exactly gay either but that's because we're T-girls!

Some of these guys are indeed awful and they have about as much chance of getting under my skirt as they would Sarah's but just because a third of this group is disgusting doesn't mean the other guys aren't worthwhile.

Somebody brought up the undercover CD's who are out in secret and probably cheating on their wives. So maybe they hook up with some of these grubbier chasers. They deserve each other as far as I'm concerned, but they're grown up people doing grown up things.

I have had a fling or two, but it's ALWAYS on my terms. I'm not desperate for male attention as somebody said, but if I want to go out and play with the boys, and if I find myself attracted to someone, and if I end up sleeping with them, then I'm afraid that's just what's gonna happen and there's not a whole lot you're gonna do about it.

I don't need another mother, I'm not all that impressed with the one I was born with.

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

Reine, the reason the fantasy doesn't fall apart is because the fantasy doesn't go that deep. When I'm with a man, I know he knows what my anatomy has in store for him. He knows I know and neither of us pretend. Some guys like to ignore it, some guys don't. Each one of us has different needs and desires. My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with. I have a penis so I use it. What else am I supposed to do with it? I don't have another way of getting it done. I will say that if a guy seems overly interested in that tiny appendage then I tend to lose interest in him and he won't be getting any happy time. ...but that's just me and there are many many gurls who know how to wield the sword if you know what I mean.

I also feel like I need to say that my opinions are firmly rooted in the CD/part time tranny perspective. The rules may change a bit for those girls that are full time and/or pre-op. I personally know some ladies that have had relationships with men that might have been otherwise straight. My presentation isn't quite there yet. :Angry3:

-Misty

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I agree with Karen , Misty said it all and I love when says ''My femininity is innate. I feel the way I feel no matter what I'm wearing or who I'm with'' because I feel the same way . I have to admit that I never had sex in my life with either men or women before I started dressing. because my lack of experience I ran across some of the creepy admirers and made one or two mistakes but I consider it a learning experience on the other hand I have met some really interesting guys that know pretty well what they are getting into.

I am heterosexual. For me it's flattering to be found attractive even if you aren't interested in the gender of those proposing. I mean who doesn't like knowing that others find them attractive?

I have been hit on by admirers that are creepy, but I have had some "patient wolves" as well. The worst of it comes from online.

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

Sarah, I generally love your posts but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I hear what you're saying and I even agree with your opinion of some of these losers but I think you're way overboard with your characterization of men who like T-girls and the T-girls who date them. I submit that EVERY man who would openly date one of us is an admirer. If he didn't appreciate our unique difference then he wouldn't want to be with us. What is so wrong with that?

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Well, "these losers" clearly do float quite a few people's boats so they're obviously here to stay.

They clearly serve a purpose and have their place within transgendered society, but I'm afraid their general creepiness (and many posts have agreed that they are more often than not a bit sleazy) will probably inhibit many SOs from becoming involved in TG events.

That maybe an "overboard characterisation" but I'm certainly not the first to make the observation. Every book that I've read on TG mentions these 'tranny chasers' in derogatory terms.

How many of you protesters would be adverse to being approached by another male period? With all of the "I am not gay" disclaimers floating around this site, it kind of makes me wonder if your so called straightness might make you think that people who might be open minded enough to want to have a relationship with a TG person....... to be creepy.
I have run into my share of strange people too, and believe it or not a lot of them have been crossdressers, as well as some other TS folks.
Seems a little odd to me that if someone doesn't like fish..why they would want to hang out at the fishmarket, and then complain about the smell. :strugglin

[SIZE="4"]Please do NOT misinterpret my posts as being anti men who want to have sex with T-girls.

REPEAT... I do NOT find men who want to have sex with T-girls creepy.

I am just talking about a specific, easily-recognised, type (ie a tranny chaser) at a specific type of event.
[/SIZE]
:brolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

Well, "these losers" clearly do float quite a few people's boats so they're obviously here to stay.

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Well, this is a matter of semantics then isn't it?

The dudes as you describe them, wouldn't float anybody's boat. Certainly not anyone I know

The real problem is more along the lines of what Kelly said. A lot of your support is coming from the self professed heteros. Some of it is even coming from people who's sole experience with men or "chasers" is online. So they're only "virtually" disgusted by these awful men. Since when is it a shocker that a hetero guy is disgusted by the idea of sex with a man anyway?

I think we can all agree that any girl with self respect isn't going to jump in the arms of some greasy fat guy with all the charm and appeal of a greasy fat guy.

Consider if the "creepy" guy looked like George Clooney. So there's George over there at the end of the bar and I can't help but notice he keeps checking me out. He's kinda scruffy and unshaven and he's wearing jeans and boots and a rumpled Tshirt. I walk by to get a closer look, and to give him a closer look at me, and I notice that he smells a little bit like he's been working all day. After about an hour, of him staring at me, I finally get up the nerve to walk over and say hi and ask why he's eyeball stalking me.
So he tells me he's sorry, but he's always been interested in girls like me but he's too shy and too scared (phobic) to say anything. He's been staring because I was the prettiest one he's ever seen. Awwwww I say, and I sit down to hear more. :battingeyelashes:

He's a guy who's just terrified of his own desire. Anybody here know anything about that feeling?

Anyway, my point is, if he looks like Clooney, everything changes. It's like what Chris Rock said about Clarence Thomas; "if he looked like Denzel, than we would have never heard anything about it."

Also, how many of the hets are still disgusted by the description of a scruffy sexy George? The girls, who like men are all about meeting that guy, but the ones who don't are just hoping I don't describe the kiss. (which was wonderful by the way).

Basically what's creepy to one person is just another guy to someone else. Some guys look at me and are hopefully attracted, while some guys look at me and see a dude with makeup on. Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder after all right?

Misty may be barely a year old, but I've been a practicing homo/bi sexual for a long time (I've seen kittens and a cockatoo) and I can tell you that there is nothing inherently creepy or weird about guys that prefer TG chicks. Some guys do NOT want their man in a dress and some guys want their man ONLY in a dress. Different strokes folks. Who am I to judge? I'm a guy that wishes he was a girl!!

Whatever gets ya through the night baby.

-Misty

.... unique... deliciously glamorous.... mysteriously infrequent... and very, VERY good fun...

Created for a happy-dancing wildly mixed crowd of all romantic inclinations and gender identities, who come together to make a Grand Entrance, and to flaunt, flirt and pose in the finery of their choosing in the finest venues London has to offer...
Ladies
The perfect place for all you Cinderellas and Style Queens, Pink Princesses and Leggy Latex Babes… Audrey Hepburns and Barbarellas, TV's, Saucy Secretaries and Rock Chicks…Whether you’re a Goth Girl, Dowager, French Maid or Precocious Teen Queen, Marie Antoinette, or Marilyn Monroe,the Magic Theatre is YOUR stage.
Gentlemen
Retro Glamour, Uniforms, Lounge Lizards, Gentlemen of the Cloth, Fauns, B-Movie Stars, Prince Charmings, Pirates and Dandies of all kinds…Arise, Sir Galahad, kneel before Zod, come out, come out you Peter Pans, Dick Turpins and Darcys. You are welcome here…

Did you read 'computer geek with dribble down a cheesy smelling patterned jumper'? No. The point I'm making is that if one can't be bothered to make any effort whatsoever in the spirit of the evening like any of the above then don't go to this gig... just go to the 'fish market'!

And certainly none of these guys looked like George Clooney. :D

Ok on this one I have to say I have never meet a so called admirer that was not out for just one thing. obviously you girls know what that is. I have meet guys who obviously didn't know I was transgender and talked with me as they would with any woman. That has happened only when I was at a place like a movie or show or a museam and I was not looking of course being happily married

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

Whatever gets ya through the night baby.

-Misty

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Thanks Misty, this is probably the smartest and most comprehensive comment in this entire thread. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

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Originally Posted by StarrOfDelite

Thanks Misty, this is probably the smartest and most comprehensive comment in this entire thread. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

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You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

You forgot to add "in my humble opinion".

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In my case I usually add "imnsho" since the humble genes were left out at the moment of conception. :battingeyelashes:

p.s. edit: I do understand the complaints you have about the sloppy, seedy guys who drag down the general tone of a social affair. They aren't my cup of tea. I've never been out and about in London, but if you went to the event you described and found that it was infested with slobs, don't you think that your complaint would be more effectively directed towards the organizers of the event you described for not enforcing a dress code or something similar. If the organizers don't want to do that it might indicate either that the event can't succeed financially without the Admirers, or that other attendees like having them there.

Personally, I would rather have my bikini line shaved with a cheap, rusty Walmart razor than attend any event with lots and lots of CD's and TV's. I've been to the Pridefest in Key West, and once is enough. Like the Irish Rover, no, nay, never, no, nay, never, no more.

I'm afraid they are more scared than we are

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Originally Posted by StarrOfDelite

Personally, I would rather have my bikini line shaved with a cheap, rusty Walmart razor than attend any event with lots and lots of CD's and TV's. I've been to the Pridefest in Key West, and once is enough. Like the Irish Rover, no, nay, never, no, nay, never, no more.

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I'm surprised you even grace us with your presence on this forum considering your opinion of CD's and TV's. Or maybe you consider yourself above the rest of us here?

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Originally Posted by StarrOfDelite

Personally, I would rather have my bikini line shaved with a cheap, rusty Walmart razor than attend any event with lots and lots of CD's and TV's. I've been to the Pridefest in Key West, and once is enough. Like the Irish Rover, no, nay, never, no, nay, never, no more.

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simply awful...shame on you ..trust me they don't want you there either.
+++++
btw ...i was catching up on this thread...it still bugs me that folks jump on the admirers are creepy bandwagon..its so hypocritical

what the heck does it mean to say admirers are only after one thing and when you are at a movie or museum or whereever guys come up and talk to you like "any" woman?

i have been hit on by crossdressers in a cheerleader outfit, chomping a cigar and wearing a bra on the outside...i didnt say those crossdressers sure are creepy, they only want one thing...(altho it was a sight to behold)...

i never went out for many years...the first time ever i went to a drag show, and quitely drank vodka's in my flannel shirt and philadelphia eagles hoodie...i was quaking in fear, confusion and shame the whole time...have a heart...most of these guys are just like me and you.

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

Anyway, my point is, if he looks like Clooney, everything changes.

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If wishes are being granted, can he look like Pierce Brosnan?:)

"Whatever gets ya through the night
it's alright, it's alright"
The wisdom of John Lennon

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

How many of you protesters would be adverse to being approached by another male period? With all of the "I am not gay" disclaimers floating around this site, it kind of makes me wonder if your so called straightness might make you think that people who might be open minded enough to want to have a relationship with a TG person....... to be creepy.
I have run into my share of strange people too, and believe it or not a lot of them have been crossdressers, as well as some other TS folks.
Seems a little odd to me that if someone doesn't like fish..why they would want to hang out at the fishmarket, and then complain about the smell. :strugglin

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I'm with Kelly! If you're CD/TG, and you're attracted to others like u, why would u think men who have the SAME attraction r ODD!?:eek:

Personally, I'm not attracted to males, regardless of how they're dressed! But, I get hit on A LOT at other sites!:sad:

Some of them r SO CUTE AND SWEET! I enjoy getting to know a few of them. But, only as a guy! :heehee:

I simply block the gross ones! Why can't u all just do the SAME? :brolleyes:

Misty, do you think this description of admirers is accurate? Is it biased? The author is Alice Novic (Alice in Genderland). The entire site is an interesting read.

The quote below is from "Going on a Manhunt: The Two Types of Men Who Might Be Interested":

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Originally Posted by Alice Novic

Each admirer is a bird unable to fly [refers to being a CD in denial]. Maybe he’s flown before? Maybe he’ll develop tail feathers of his own and shake them around in style in the future? But for now he’s limited by something. And that same thing that keeps him from being a terribly happening woman may be what’s keeping him from being an especially happening man.

That’s why admirers tend to be a heavier and older bunch of men. It would make sense if they were also taller, though I haven’t seen that near as much as I’d like. Some may have their wings clipped by lack of a steady job, car, or apartment. Many are married and unable to get out except under the rarest of circumstances. Some may be constrained by psychological baggage, religious guilt, or macho ethnic tradition.

...

Then you’ll want to watch out for him trying to make you a secret playmate that he never has to take out, or him paying too much attention to your original equipment and losing interest if you go for GRS. And then there’s the final risk of him being around a joyful, self-actualizing trans-person: he may want to blossom himself someday. Would you want him to dress up with you? Maybe you’d be okay if he did it quietly when you’re not around?

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admirers, like the general population, come in all different, shapes, sizes, and personalities. there's a lot of diversity. and i enjoy diversity.

generally, the clubs i go to are open enough that the men generally aren't overly creepy. but, i have run into some pretty creepy ones. just like i run into some creepy dudes just about anywhere. men are often poorly dressed and often don't take care of themselves, and i'll probably always complain about that. yet, i find myself attracted to men nonetheless.

i agree that men should learn to shower more, smell better and take better care of themselves. would all stalkers pay as much attention to their grooming as us girls, it would be a kinder gentler club scene out there wouldn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Misty, do you think this description of admirers is accurate? Is it biased? The author is Alice Novic (Alice in Genderland).

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Hmmm, far be it from me too disagree with such an esteemed personality, but I'm afraid I have to.

It would seem that the general consensus is "admirers" are not to be trusted for one reason or another. I can honestly say that it has not been my experience, and maybe that's where my sticking point is. Unlike some others, I can only speak from my own real life experience. Let's discuss;

I've dated maybe half a dozen guys over the last year or so as Misty. Made out with four of them and slept with two of them. The others didn't get more than a hug. Some of you may be mortified at my promiscuity while others may be amused by my slow dating life. At any rate, that's my sample. Out of all of them, one was kinda chubby, one was kinda fat and the others were in pretty good shape. They were split down the middle personality wise, half were interesting and dynamic and the other half wasn't. None of them claimed to be married. None of them admitted to being CD's in the past or present. The only thing they all had in common was an apparent attraction to me :battingeyelashes:

That's my experience in real life. Now I should admit that I occasionally fire up the webcam and chat with people on AFF so I've met a LOT of men online and I would say a good half of them seem to match Ms Novic's characterization. A lot of them are married, a lot of them are closet CD's and a lot of them are pretty damn creepy. The interesting thing is, most FAB women could say the exact same thing about men they meet in chatrooms.

Which kinda gives credence to my argument that being an admirer isn't creepy, being creepy is what's creepy.

-Misty

Yeah, but look at where you live! :) Walnut Creek is a pretty nice place. I've been there. Isn't SF one of the alternative lifestyle capitals in the US?

I'm in Small Town Midwest. My SO and I go to LGBT night clubs when she is dressed in town, or in a city two hours away, or in one of two mid-sized towns 1 hour away. We've been to only a few places were mostly TGs hangout (with a long line of admirers sitting at the bar eyeing everyone up and down when you come in). Now THAT was creepy to me. And obviously to my SO as well, since she never brought me back. lol. I did have a good time there though, the show was fantastic.

At any rate, the other TG hangout we were at was pretty seedy. We received a crude invitation on a napkin. In my naivete at the time, I thought it was addressed to both of us! :p

Although my exposure to admirers is limited, I have to agree with Sarah that the creep factor at the TG bars is pretty high, compared to the men I've seen in the GLBT, mainstream, or alternative bars.

I think I've done gone and broken one of my own rules here... Are we talking admirer "a" or admirer "the"? Makes a difference in my mind, same as TV vs CD makes a difference in some others. Can someone pass the salt for my crow, please?

My only real issue with the "admirers" is with the what I believe to be a much larger than normal fraction of guys that think the opening line along the likes of "What room in what hotel are you staying at?" is cool. That's the type that comes to my mind when someone says admirer or chaser, not the guy from the Clooney scenario - regardless of what he looks like.

So Reine.. Might have you considered them creepy because you and your SO are not into that scene? If you were approached couldn't the reason have been that........... it's hard to tell the players without a program? I don't go to gay bars because they don't appeal to me, nor to TG venues for much the same reason. If you are in the other person's backyard... wouldn't it stand to reason that they might think that you are game? Just curious.
Kel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

I agree. So the hets think it's creepy that there are men who like trannies? So what? I think it's creepy that a man would dress up like a french maid while loudly proclaiming that he is "all man". We're a creepy bunch folks. What we do is NOT normal as far as mainstream society is concerned. So save your sanctimonious attitudes for Sunday.

If you're a T-girl who enjoys the company of men than I've got news for ya; The Admirers are your only option. The average straight guy does not want to encounter your penis, no matter how hot you may be. Now before I get hammered, I said AVERAGE. I am willing to recognize those rare souls that are able to transcend the body for the sake of love, if you are willing to recognize that exception as a rarity.

There are perfectly good men out there who for whatever reason, prefer T-girls over real girls. Are they deeply closeted homosexuals? Are they frustrated trannies? Are they politicians?

They are just men who are attracted to what they are attracted to. Sure, some of them can be creepy but if I were being honest, I would have to say that there are more than a few gurls on this very site who creep me out as much or more than the creepiest "chaser" I've ever met. Some of you should read your posts a couple of times before you click Submit.

So the "admirers" are just objectifying me? So what? Women have been objectified sexually since the first other woman. If a man looks at me with desire does that mean there is something wrong with him? Excuse me? Am I not allowed to be desired?

The very idea that there is something wrong with a group of men who prefer T-girls is the reason they exist in the first place.

Okay, that's a little deep, but follow me; If the world were a more accepting place and people weren't held to such rigid sexual standards then there would be no need for labels. A man could date a TG or a GG and there would be no raised eyebrows. He's just a man who likes a certain look or type and that's the end of it. Imagine living in a world where you could just date someone who you found attractive and interesting, and the sexuality would be determined by that relationship, rather than by society. There would be no need for chasers in a world like that. :daydreaming:

Back to reality, and reality sucks, because any man who has a preference for T-girls is automatically labeled a "chaser" and by definition must be creepy and predatory. That's not fair and frankly some of you girls may need to take a broom to your own doorsteps before you start with the judging.

You know, as a group we are by and large just as intolerant as the straight world and I can't decide if that's disappointing or comforting.

-Misty

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Dear Misty
Thank you for the well said defense of admirer's. I am one of these so called admirer's. In many ways, I HATE that word and description. I for one do NOT stand and gwak or stare at CD women for the sake of playing with their heads. I am NOT a nut job or a creep. I have had this strang desire to be with passable CD's for as long as I can remember. And yes, I do consider myself BI. I am also NOT a latent secret CD. It seems that you CDs who are also doing what society deems as "sick or unnatural" should think a lot about what you feel is creepy. As Misty said, a lot of you girls who DO prefer being with a man, if it were not for the admirer, who in his right mind would treat you like the women you want to be. Sex is not always on the top of my list especially today when one has to be very careful. Just to enjoy the company of a CD and enjoy the common love for a lifestyle that most of the straight world consider taboo is a thrill in itself. I have been on many outtings with CD friends and they were always very enjoyable and exciting experiences. You ladies forget that when you get all dolled up and want to play the role of a women that you WILL attract that kind of man that enjoys a women like you. Its like lighting the candle only to attract the butterfly. Before you start judging, just think before you label a man as creepy, sick, or a predator. I have been on the forum for many years now and never once have I disrespected ANYONE. Im sure that there are many girls here who can vouch for me. Again, THINK before you make stupid comments that are meaningless and again, thank you Misty.
Jerry

Kelly,

But I AM into that scene, or as much as I can be as a GG. :) I felt perfectly comfortable there. The show was great, the CDs we were sitting with were fun. And I wouldn't have minded the long line of guys at the bar if they looked like they had a life. You know, if they were talking, joking, laughing among themselves or with other patrons in the same way that most people people act in bars and clubs. But these guys were so silent and obtrusive with their stares. There was a definite 'meat market' flavor to them. Way more pronounced than other places I've been to.

And their physical appearance was pretty much how Sarah and Alice Novic described. Honestly, at the time I had never heard of the term "admirer", nor was I aware of their prevalence, so there was no preconceived bias. But there was most definitely something about this group of men that was, um, different.

Now to be fair, one nice thing that can be said is they don't hide their motives. It is perfectly obvious what they want and there's something to be said about their honesty. But IMO it wouldn't hurt to throw in a little couth. Also, and again to be fair, they are not after GGs so maybe they don't see the need for decorum. The objects of their desire speak their same language (same birth gender) and maybe there is no need for any artifice? (Edited to add that men's behaviors among themselves is different than when GGs are present. So the GGs who witness this are not accustomed to the rawness).

On a different note, I asked a question up above but it might have got lost ... does anyone know if the admirers we are describing would be interested in post-op TSs?

EDIT Lawmanpro, you posted while I was composing this. You will probably find my post offensive, and I do apologize. But I am describing a distinct experiences that I had and this certainly does not reflect on you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

(Edited to add that men's behaviors among themselves is different than when GGs are present. So the GGs who witness this are not accustomed to the rawness).

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You know what Reine? I think you may be on to something here.

It's quite possible that my "creep" threshold is a little higher than a real woman's. Gurls like me have grown up in the company of men. We've been behind enemy lines as it were for most of our lives. We have intimate knowledge of how men act with other men and how they act with women. (By the way ladies with straight husbands; he doesn't really think those Girls Gone Wild videos are stupid or shameful).

Women have a calming and civilizing effect on most men so I guess it stands to reason that you don't have first hand knowledge of how brutish and disgusting they can be. Any man who argues with me is frankly just putting on a show for somebody. I've spent my entire life desperately trying to be manly and fit in, so like many gurls here, my perspective is both inside and outside.

Now before anyone gets fired up, I'm NOT attacking men. I love men, but they are extremely coarse compared to women in almost every aspect, especially regarding sex. I'm not just talking about dirty words or even forthrightness. I'm talking about a kind of emotional detachment. Men will learn to get right to the point if they're allowed. Want proof? Look at the average gay lifestyle. Gay men, especially closeted gay men will "cruise" for sex anywhere other gay men congregate. I've seen stuff that I couldn't believe and I'm on the outer fringes of that lifestyle at best. Seriously, they pick each other up in bathrooms, parks, wherever. There are websites that list and rate cruising spots according to how fast you can get lucky. These are facts kids and I'm not knocking it. Like I said before, to each his own, I'm just trying to illustrate what happens when women aren't around to say no.

What does a gay man bring on a first date? A condom.
What does a gay woman bring on a first date? A suitcase.

That is one of the oldest jokes in the book and I think it makes my point.

Maybe the FAB's are more sensitive to the creepiness because they're just not used to it. Hell, they won't allow it. The average TG on the other hand is well acquainted with crude, rude and socially unacceptable behavior. I mean come on, if I see a girl I know and say hi, one of my "guy" buddies will immediately ask "you hittin' that?" I'll say no and then they'll say "mind if I do?". I think women in general would be horrified at the level of objectification if they only knew. In the defense of men, most of them don't really mean to be pigs, they're just playing around but that's indeed how they've been raised. Boys will be boys.

Please ladies, don't try to argue with me about this and say your man is different. He isn't. I'm not saying men are bad, I'm just saying boys are made out of snips and snails and puppy dog tails. I didn't make that up either.

Men can be great but they can also approach sexual conquest with an almost frightening single-mindedness. What GG can disagree with that?

-Misty

I have to confess I don't understand the whole male admirer thing.

However, I can see why a TG who is straight (attracted to GGs) might be interested in a relationship with another TG, especially a TV-TS relationship. The TV may be unable to find a GG who is accepting, and find being with another TS (especially post-op with the anatomy they desire) more practical. The TV does not have to explain the dressing, or going around hiding their dressing. The TS has a man who understands her background and does not have to fear being discovered or explaining her past. Both could be completely honest with each other without fear or misunderstanding. It makes sense from this perspective at least.

Reine...to your specific question...i have dated with my thingie and I am having srs in 4 weeks....i stopped going out because i want to feel like myself out there, and i can't wait to move on with my life...

anyway, i told the last guy i dated and he was not happy and asked how many times i could see him before my surgery, and also claims he is NOT gay...i don't find him creepy at all...just closeted and quite easy on the eyes. i doubt he will be interested in the future..


Dr Novic describes me 15 years ago, and she no doubt describes some of the guys..it didnt take me a relationship to figure it out, but it did take me going out as a guy to trans events...as a tg woman , i have been chatted up by guys that later pull out the dressing pics and claim they tried it "just for fun"..i always encourage them to do what feels right and i'm happy to help them get their cd freak on..i have chosen not to pursue a date with them though once i find that out.

however, the guys i've actually dated have not been interested in any way in their own femininity..and if they are hiding anything, its their own homosexuality, and that's fine with me.

i burst out laughing this morning at what is being discussed in the last couple of posts...its really interesting ..

misty you are gonna get the guys pissed spilling all the dirty laundry..:heehee:

maybe in the end, its just semantics..
maybe the term "admirers" is a pejorative term like some of the things we are called...its certainly used that way here


and btw
Hi Jerry !! you are a sweetheart!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

Women have a calming and civilizing effect on most men so I guess it stands to reason that you don't have first hand knowledge of how brutish and disgusting they can be.

...

Maybe the FAB's are more sensitive to the creepiness because they're just not used to it. Hell, they won't allow it. The average TG on the other hand is well acquainted with crude, rude and socially unacceptable behavior. I mean come on, if I see a girl I know and say hi, one of my "guy" buddies will immediately ask "you hittin' that?" I'll say no and then they'll say "mind if I do?". I think women in general would be horrified at the level of objectification if they only knew. In the defense of men, most of them don't really mean to be pigs, they're just playing around but that's indeed how they've been raised. Boys will be boys.

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I think we've reached a consensus. And you're not describing something that I and other GGs are not aware of. We KNOW that men behave differently when we aren't there. It's just that they seldom allow us to see it .... thankfully. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

misty you are gonna get the guys pissed spilling all the dirty laundry..:heehee:

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Naaaaaaw! We're all about being an open and honest forum in the interest of promoting mutual understanding, aren't we? :D But thanks for your response about your guy friend who would no longer be interested in you after SRS. It does fit the M.O. I hope that you will find someone wonderful post-op!! :hugs:



Sarah, I'm sorry for taking the discussion off on a tangent away from your initial topic :hiding: :D But I do agree with you that it would be a shame if the flavor of Magic Theater UK changed to become more of a TG/admirer meet-up thing. As you say, I don't think the admirers are there to partake in the fun and spirit of things but rather to see who they can bag.

[SIZE=4]After reading 4 pages of posts I had to go back to the original post to recall what the question or concern was. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I agree![/SIZE]

Yeah, I know Tam. Threads do take on a life of their own once they reach the discussion stage, especially if they are more than a few pages. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

Reine...to your specific question...i have dated with my thingie and I am having srs in 4 weeks....i stopped going out because i want to feel like myself out there, and i can't wait to move on with my life...

anyway, i told the last guy i dated and he was not happy and asked how many times i could see him before my surgery, and also claims he is NOT gay...i don't find him creepy at all...just closeted and quite easy on the eyes. i doubt he will be interested in the future..


Dr Novic describes me 15 years ago, and she no doubt describes some of the guys..it didnt take me a relationship to figure it out, but it did take me going out as a guy to trans events...as a tg woman , i have been chatted up by guys that later pull out the dressing pics and claim they tried it "just for fun"..i always encourage them to do what feels right and i'm happy to help them get their cd freak on..i have chosen not to pursue a date with them though once i find that out.

however, the guys i've actually dated have not been interested in any way in their own femininity..and if they are hiding anything, its their own homosexuality, and that's fine with me.

i burst out laughing this morning at what is being discussed in the last couple of posts...its really interesting ..

misty you are gonna get the guys pissed spilling all the dirty laundry..:heehee:

maybe in the end, its just semantics..
maybe the term "admirers" is a pejorative term like some of the things we are called...its certainly used that way here


and btw
Hi Jerry !! you are a sweetheart!

---

Thank you Kaitlyn. You are a beautiful women and a beautiful PERSON.
Jerry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

But IMO it wouldn't hurt to throw in a little couth. Also, and again to be fair, they are not after GGs so maybe they don't see the need for decorum. The objects of their desire speak their same language (same birth gender) and maybe there is no need for any artifice? (Edited to add that men's behaviors among themselves is different than when GGs are present. So the GGs who witness this are not accustomed to the rawness).

On a different note, I asked a question up above but it might have got lost ... does anyone know if the admirers we are describing would be interested in post-op TSs?

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The admirers you are describing- the creepy guys, or admirers in general? In general, some aren't, some definitely are.
Remember what I've said before? All CD's are not alike, all GG's are not alike, all admirers, all black people...name a category. The jokes exist because there's a GRAIN of truth- a percentage of the group being discussed may be like that, but many in that category won't be. For example, gay males, that stuff goes on to an extent, but it's not definitive, all are not just out for quick sex action. I lived a fair number of years in that world before accepting my dressing ( & gaining greater insight into who I am ) so I know first-hand.

There are blatantly crude admirers, and there are respectful gentlemen who talk to you just as they'd talk with a GG. Just as with guys talking to a GG, some may hope for casual sex, some may be interested in friendship, some may be interested in finding a relationship. GG's know this/learn this, so can we.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

simply awful...shame on you ..trust me they don't want you there either.
+++++
btw ...i was catching up on this thread...it still bugs me that folks jump on the admirers are creepy bandwagon..its so hypocritical

what the heck does it mean to say admirers are only after one thing and when you are at a movie or museum or whereever guys come up and talk to you like "any" woman?

i have been hit on by crossdressers in a cheerleader outfit, chomping a cigar and wearing a bra on the outside...i didnt say those crossdressers sure are creepy, they only want one thing...(altho it was a sight to behold)...

i never went out for many years...the first time ever i went to a drag show, and quitely drank vodka's in my flannel shirt and philadelphia eagles hoodie...i was quaking in fear, confusion and shame the whole time...have a heart...most of these guys are just like me and you.

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I think you missed my point. If a CD/TV/TS doesn't want to get propositioned by people whom she sees as low-life creeps, which was iirc the complaint which started this whole thread, then why does she persist in going to events, clubs or venues which attract a lot of CD/TV/TS people, and therefore a lot of Admirers?

I don't like crowds and parades and generalized lewd behavior, which seemed to me to be the chief raison d'etre for the Key West event. Maybe your experience was different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StarrOfDelite

If a CD/TV/TS doesn't want to get propositioned by people whom she sees as low-life creeps, which was iirc the complaint which started this whole thread, then why does she persist in going to events, clubs or venues which attract a lot of CD/TV/TS people, and therefore a lot of Admirers?

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FYI the OP is the SO of a TG and the event in question was not a seedy night club, back street bar, but

Quote:

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billed as a sort of burlesque, dress to fulfill your own fantasy (as long as it doesn't involve nudity or cause offence) so the majority of people have great fun getting involved in fantasy burlesque dressing

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Her and her TG regularly attend such events together, she stated it was spoiled for them by

Quote:

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The 'tranny chasers' don't. They come wearing anoraks and grubby sweaters and don't dance. They just (I'm aware this is a sweeping generalisation) seem to leer.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

. . . I'm with Kelly! If you're CD/TG, and you're attracted to others like u, why would u think men who have the SAME attraction r ODD!? . . .

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Whoa there Doc! I can't speak for anyone else here that said admirers were creepy, but I don't think they are odd because they like TG's. I think they are odd based on the fact that the majority of them I've encountered have ACTED creepy.

I think it was a valid point that some of you brought up concerning the way your sexual orientation will obviously affect or color your perception of someone who is sexually interested in you, but I'm fairly sure that my being hetro has nothing to do with my opinion. I honestly don't mind a guy hitting on me if he is polite - that doesn't bug me. If anything, it's kind of affirming. Having some creep staring at me for hours on the other hand is a whole different ball of wax.