Anne, I've been in the closet for 60 years and have never been ashamed about it. I was a teacher for more than 35 years and would have suffered the loss of my employment as well as my family's humiliation if it ever become public that I was a crossdresser. Don't let any one make you believe that you aren't living a good life.
You know, even as 'out' as I am, I still consider myself closeted - most likely because those I'm out to are strangers. Sure, I have a few members of my family, and a few friends, but for the most part no one in my 'inner circle' of friends, family, church, etc. know me as anything but a boring, skinny, slightly-effeminate guy. I'm OK with that. Anne, you should be too - no matter what some members might say.
Kathi
Anne,
In the closet myself, a choice I make. Not the one I want but it is what is best for me to be able to continue to pay the mortgage, send my kids to college etc.... I too have been chastised by others that I dont "come out" (actually not on this forum), I respect thier feeling but I have to do what is right is for my situation. Should I become financially well off or be able to retire any time soon,......................then things may change. Best of luck to you. I guess if my closet has no windows and is dark at least I can paint it pink!!!
I agree, I will open the door when I am prepared to and not when someone tries to open it for me.
Just because you want to keep some things private does not mean you are in the closet. To me, being in the closet is when you are not honest with yourself about how you feel more so than others. I'm not going to tell strangers about my health, finances, or sexual encounters, so why should I feel obligated to let everyone know about my gender (non)conformity? I will tell the people I want to tell, for reasons that are up to me to decide. Everyone who should know will know (ex: future girlfriends). My family would not understand, so it is easier to not tell them, and I am totally ok with that decision. My friends would probably, for the most part, not understand, and again I am ok with not telling them. They are not entitled to know. Some people are, though, and those are the people I will tell. And I'm totally ok with that lifestyle. I shouldn't have to stick my neck out just because someone else wants me to join their social movement because it is their motive to be out there to everyone. That's their prerogative; not mine.
Exactly right Nicole.Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleScott
Anne,
Very well put opinion and rebuttal, not everyone's circumstances allow for such a free and happy life to be anything more than closeted.
I think these "Browbeaters" also forget about the wider world where coming out could even possibly get you killed. What do you do then? Try and change society by being a Martyr? If some of these places don't respect women, what do you think will happen to anyone outside the cultural norm?
Anne I think that was an extremely well written post. The only one who has to be happy with your decisions is you. Do what makes you happy, be that in or out of the closet.
Anne, I totally agree with you! I am NOT a closeted cross dresser. I am an in-home cross dresser. Small point. I do not live in a closet and my wardrobe is kept in xerox boxes. You are totally correct, as many others have agreed, that venturing out into the world may not be as rewarding as some make it out to be. I have lived my life viewing whatever choices I make are subject to a cost benefit analysis. As far as I know the only person who knows of my cross dressing is my wife. She is NOT accepting. I wish it was otherwise, but, it is NOT! She has not deserted me. Apparently love transcends all! I do not think for one second that anybody in the outside world would be as gracious as she.
Anne that was a very well written post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, concerns, beliefs, and reasoning's. I truly do appreciate and enjoy debate and discussions just like you, and this has been a very good thread for that.
In my current situation, I could be viewed as a crossdresser who will on occasion go to LGBTQ friendly bars, aka gay bars. Some of my friends know about me, and my sister does as well. On the inside I really do identify more female than male, and transitioning is a major possibility. However I'm aware of all the consequences that could result in that action. The loss of income potential, the discrimination, the possible threats of violence, the loss of friends, and the worse would be loss of family. My journey right now is to find out where my life is most harmonious, just like everyone else's.
Where my life is harmonious isn't where your life is harmonious or anyone else's for that matter, and I think that's something a lot of people forget.
I want to be a part of the equality movement more, and really get behind the transgendered movement for equality and rights in addition to all of the LGBTQ community (Please note, that when I refer to transGENDER, I refer to the umbrella term that includes transsexuals, crossdressers, gender queer's, drag queens & kings and ect...). However for me right now, I'm not at the point where I'm able to be a leader, or the activist that I want. In due time I will be, but at this point in time there are other things going on in my life that I need to take care of before I can concentrate on the movement. In addition I'm keenly aware that not everyone can be an activist at all, and I respect that. The fact that you will support me when it is that I become an activist is enough for me.
What it comes down to the most, do what makes you happy and comfortable as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to do the same. Stay in the closet, you have my support to do so, and if you wish to come out at some point in time, I'll support you then too!
Girl there will always be militants, but that does not mean you or I or anyone else has to give into them. They have my vote, but I'm not coming out for anybody but me, and not until I'm ready, and I may never be. It's nobody's business but my own. We do not owe any group such as this the kind of sacrifice they might ask for, they don't know what it might cost you. Once I told my wife, I have never felt the need to share it with anyone else I know. My closet is very comfortable, and I'm happy in it. I understand how you feel.
Tina B.
Anne, you seemed to have kicked over a hornet's nest here...what age is this person? "Loserville?" Really? Is this place even on the map? Where is it? Is this person a resident of this place?
I've been enduring constant harassment at work for being "suspected" of crossdressing (something ridiculously irritating happened yesterday) and yet fellow cdr's on this forum have the audacity to berate those of us that choose to keep this secret hidden? Those that reveal all are such brave souls...thanks for carrying the torch for us losers. Give me a break. How can anyone fault someone for not wanting to live in a hostile/humiliating environment or to have their family life crumble? Hey if that's for you then go ahead. Advice is one thing, but the holier than thou attitude I've seen on the forum is less than helpful, and sometimes downright mean spirited. "Loserville?" Gawd.
Ginger
Kendra, I see your point and agree with your statement here. Thanks for clarifying...Quote:
Originally Posted by kendra_gurl
Well said Anne! one can express an opinion that differs without being insulting!
Not one to join any 'militant' movement or crusade, Next thing you're wearing a ghastly brown shirt and a hideous armband, tormenting anyone who doesn't..
My journey is my own, as is everyones, and should be respected for it..
Funny, but this whole topic reminded me of a poem by A.A.Milne!
Everyone has the right to sit on any stair they choose, specially if it's a comfortable/comforting one!!Quote:
The World of Christopher Robin
Halfway down the stairs
Is a stair
Where I sit
There isn't any
Other Stair
Quite like
It.
I'm not at the bottom
I'm not at the top;
So this is the stair
Where
I always
Stop.
Halfway up the stairs
Isn't up;
And Isn't down.
It isn't in the nursery,
It isn't in the town.
And all sorts of funny thoughts
Run round my head:
"It isn't really
Anywhere!
It's somewhere else
Instead!"
Lessons from the poetry of A.A. Milne, I love it! :) I used to read those to my children when they were younger. See also "Bad Sir Brian Botany." :heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskandra
One thing that bothers me here and that is the vocal divide between segments of our community. Aside from reference to "Mr. Loserville" who deserves to be taken to task, I see words used such as "bashing", "militant", "haters", etc. referring to those in different places on the gender spectrum, specifically those who lean towards the TS end. Specifically, Veronica's comment was lumped in with Mr. Loserville's vitriol when she was merely pointing out some alternate viewpoints on some things Anne presented as being givens. But then to suggest that CD'ers be given their exclusive playground away from the "evil" TS/TG's, well you already have that. It's called panty threads.
Seriously, I support everyone along the gender spectrum and hope that those of us who are out beyond the confines of our homes will continue to work together in making the out-and-about experience better for those who CHOOSE to come after us (and more importantly, for those who are 24/7). Sometimes we do this one interaction at a time. Others may take a more broad-brushed activism approach. The positivity that is the end result benefits all because to the average muggle, they don't necessarily know if the TG they encounter identifies as CD, TS or somewhere in-between.
Over the years I've heard more who identify as CD lamenting that they aren't recognized by the TS community than otherwise. Seeing the reverse voiced here is quite illuminating, and disheartening at the same time.
The most amazing thing about your entire effort is this:
"Regardless, I am in the closet, and that is where I shall remain. Call me a citizen of “Loserville” all you want. I will not change my mind. I have worked hard for my education and career. I have a family. I have a mortgage, car payments, and a plethora of other bills to pay. When I lose my job as a result of coming out, who is going to pay my bills? Who is going to feed my family? When my child goes to school, who is going to take care of her, and protect her from the playground bullies that will discriminate against her for the mere reason that her father is a crossdresser? What about the consequences to my wife? She is not a crossdresser, but she married one. I could go on and on and on, but I am sure you get the point. But even beyond this, what about the simple freedom to remain silent about my crossdressing for no other reason than I believe it is no one else’s business, and I choose not to share?"
Your post about your "sanctuary" came a day or so after your post about "almost" being outed by a family friend who walked up behind you in YOUR kitchen. Your insistence that you're in the closet, and that it's your "sanctuary" is simply self-deluding given these facts. Meanwhile, you're the one who built the house and career of sand while "hiding safely in your closet" the entire time. Nothing will protect you when you get exposed but the fact that most people really don't much care what you do so long as you tend to your business and don't make a mess of theirs... Yet, it is interesting that you think you'll stand up for your daughter when she gets bullied (by the few) at school. But, what are you going to stand on - your brand of "honesty," your sterling "reputation" for being forthright, your prior public positions on human rights? All that is hard to do from your sanctuary - which protects you from and prepares you for nothing in the real world you fear.
In any event, whether you understand it or not, you're "out" now - just by joining the forum. Make the most of it. You may be very glad you thought out your position carefully. So far, it seems your agenda is going to be to argue that you should be allowed back into your closet to be left alone - with everyone forgetting what you're doing in there. Like that's going to work the way you want it to...
Welcome to the real world. You may not like it, but this is all we've got - so far.
It should perhaps also be noted more strongly that "your" right to be in the closet is not fairly balanced with your wife's right, your child's right, your family's right, your co-workers right, your neighbors right, etc. not to have their world imploded by your self-admitted potentially harmful activity - to "their world" - that you assert a "right" to practice while keeping them unaware of the hazard YOU present to them.
You might as well argue that you can mix small amounts of explosives in your closet, because you have a right to purchase what you want and do what you want with it where you want to and when you want to... When an explosion does occur, and your wife has a blinded husband, your child loses their hearing, the neighbor's house suffers fire damage... Then it may be more clear to you how limited YOUR rights are, and how harmful your stubborn insistence on YOUR rights and freedoms really is.
If you're doing something where you need to claim "sanctuary" just to live your life, perhaps you'd do better to do something else with your time, or, learn how to do what you're doing differently.
Different being: now that you're out of the closet, stay out.
The issue I see with people firmly entrenched in the closet is, for the most part your dressing is entirely selfish. Who are you dressing for? Who are you helping? How is this helping you? The problem I have with people who are fully in the closet (I myself hide in a cupboard from my mother, and family members, as well as my aviation job. All other aspects of my life, I am very open and honest), is that you just feed the beast. That beast that feeds off of fear, and breeds more and more fear. When you hide yourself from the world doing something that harms not one person, you add more fuel to a fire of intolerance.
When I go out in my stuff, I wear it and own it (according to observers, this is not my thought at all, I think I can be a bit timid, LOL), it is difficult to conceal the sheen of black leggings, even when wearing a trench coat, mostly because I let the coat flow like a cloak (cape is too superhero sounding), and when I wear my blue disco jeans, I feel they really shine. When in a skirt with hose, I can feel like a sore thumb, but I feel really good at the same time. My point with this paragraph is I get out so others can see, and either give thought to trying it themselves, or at least think about the stupid gender limitations on styles we have. Yes I know many out there poke fun...while in their dull and mundane jeans, and non stylish t-shirts. I know there are people like my mother thinking I look like a fool, or ballet dancer without a studio (though she would not think this if I were GG). But you know what, the more it is seen, and the more people doing it, the less of a problem it will be. Look at the wearing pants several times your size fad, which is still strong.
You are a successful person right? So why not be one that shows CDing does not in anyway affect your mind, your morals, your worth, cause despite the fact you are one, you are also successful. The only reason I "hide" from my aviation job, is because I am still working my way up to a very prestigious (and neglected) level in flying and that is as instructor. When I finally achieve that very slowly I will integrate my style into my normal wear (within reason, pre flighting a cessna in a mini skirt with just pantyhose underneath, is just not practical :P), and hopefully will be able to get TG individuals into flying. Whether I will succeed at that is a going concern, and it certainly is not my main reason for getting the rating. But right now I cannot have any kind of "issue" that a closed minded FAA rep can use to stop me from getting the certificate.
I fully feel however, my steps would not be necessary if less people remain entrenched in the closet. If more had mine and others' mindsets that what we are doing is not wrong (no matter how Deut 22:5 is interpreted) and we hurt no one, and for the most part do not put across an image connected to violence. We are simply wearing styles and presenting how we should be able to.
It is of course your right to hide...but in the long run, it helps no one.
Hi Anne,
I too was in the closet for 50 years and just started venturing out this year (support groups, shopping and meeting other friends, going to a few clubs) and the thing you'll notice about this forum is there are nice supportive folks on here, and some not so nice, not so supportive ones. I migrate towards the former ones, not the latter. In other words, don't let them bring you down!! Just my :2c:
i say let the ny-sayer go away, probably just a troll trying to cause trouble.
if one enjoys (for what ever reason) staying in the closet so be it who are we to tell them other wise.
sure i have been out and about, not as some here have posted, and no i do not blend in very good. but around here were i live i keep the heavy drapes closed.
we are all different, have different needs wants. so we need to support any and all others in there beliefs.
sorry karren but i do ware fem jeans when out as the male me, they just fit better. but when i got up this am i did put on a summer dress.
but as the evil poster said, i say just ignore them and enjoy your life as you want. when they pay All of your bills, and support you in every way, till then they can just shut-up and go-away.
Loni
.
I am in the closet, for several reasons. First, what I do in my home is my business. While I am not embarrassed by what I do, I don't broadcast it either. I choose to keep this part of my private. I have no desire to wave any kind of flag. For me, crossdressing is lower on the list of important things in life. I doubt I will get fired if I showed up at my job dressed, and maybe no one will be surprised, but I would not be comfortable. I am not hiding in the closet but I am not jumping out of it either. That said, I am thinking of coming out to my stepmother. My Dad passed away a couple of years ago, and I feel like it is time. I do believe she would be supportive, but I am not sure.
None that I am aware ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
Wow.... I've read through the replies on this thread several times now. I wish I could say that I'm suprised by many of the attitudes, but I'm not.
This topic will be endlessly debated. Each side will bring valid points for or against individuals being closted to the public at large. Debate is great everyone. Let's just be respectful of each other and not call each other out. For example... don't assume that because your job has a trans friendly policy or an EEO poster mounted on the wall... that other employers don't have a fired without cause policy or that your EEO employer won't find a way to get rid of you, if they don't like your crossdressing.
Just because we don't live up to each other's standards of crossdressing or transgenderism, doesn't mean each of our opinions aren't post worthy. We are each unique, have our own situations and live somewhere different along the crossdressing or transgendered spectrum line.
I believe Anne's first post was made, to call to light how she felt attacked by another member. As all of us know, personal attacks (and I think most of us would agree that Mr Loserville was being insulting) are not permitted. Should the mods have caught it? Maybe so. However, I'm not gonna be dumb enough to judge them when they have the responsibility of policing this site. :eek: To many times... we forget or hijack another person's thread or post because of one little opinion we want add. 50 opinions later... we have this kind of situation, where some posters are starting to get a little personal. As someone mentioned above, there is a little exclamation point icon for reporting posts considered to be insulting or inflammatory.
Sorry about the soapbox, but I just felt that opinions were getting the better of us and somebody needed to step us and say "Easy Trigger"..... We're all here on this site for the same reason... support.
The person who responded so strongly to your other thread was rude. Under ideal circumstances, such a post would have been caught by a moderator and if not deleted, then edited to remove the trolling comments. We moderators don't have set schedules to login and sometimes posts get missed. Had you or someone else reported the post it would have been looked at.
It's moot now to go back and perform a moderating action since you've highlighted the post in this thread, but next time please do report such a post.
At any rate, I'm glad that you brought up the topic, irrespective of this person's comments. It's good to remind everyone of the diversity here and to make a case for tolerance over the different choices we all make. It boggles my mind when I see people who are just so convinced their own way is the only way to live. How can anyone be so limited in their views?
I'm sure the person who responded negatively will have learned something from reading this thread and I hope that he or she will learn to change the tone of his or her future messages to at least respect the positions of other members.
So telling them about privetly crossdressing now has a different effect than if they ever find out in some other way? If it implodes their world either way whats the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
Don't you think this is a rather strange and extreem comparison example? Equating crossdressing to mixing explosives is like saying if you masturbate in the shower you may as well mix explosives in there as well. It just does not make any sense. But WAIT...I thought everyone masturbates in private so that makes it okay to also mix explosives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
"Just to live you life" is far from just satisfying one small part of life. Again your being quite extreem hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
Just as Pythos said she is out of the closet but not fully, Anne only knows her sitiuation so please allow her to make the same choices she feels are right for her. Like several others have said here they were at that stage once and then progressed to taking small steps outside that closet as they were comfortable doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
I have more but I need to go purchase some chemicals
Anne
I have to agree with most of what your saying. I'm pretty in the closet myself have been for 40+ years. I used to go out occasionally when I was younger, but never found the big world outside very accepting, so now it's home with the Ms and the TV (television I mean). I still get out for the occasional drive across the moors, but I don't really have the urge to socialise like I did when I was younger and I'm very content and happy with my lot.
Jane.
You seem so hostile and confrontational in your reply, Why? What do you stand to gain from disrespecting Anne and those of us that choose to stay in the closet by throwing out that guilt soaked diatribe? It may have been well written, eloquent even but man, wow. Might as well called us all losers too. Reading it I think you believe our lives and the lives of our families are already over with the house of sand etc... What of the "...your brand of "honesty," your sterling "reputation" for being forthright..." Was that really necessary? Throw in the kids and how we've messed them up into the mix too? Ouch! Just plain nasty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
I respect the fact that there are those out there that are comfortable enough in their own skin to out themselves willingly. I also respect the fact that there are those of us that have no choice but to go all the way. Works for you? Good for you! I'm happy, I love reading about the success stories about coming out. Some day I may do just that. But for now, it ain't me, and clearly it ain't Anne. All Anne was asking was for the same respect. I believe that was how the post started, no? "Please be kind, respect my decision.. " It was not, even after she requested it. Nice.
Ginger
Anne,
I'll add my voice to the chorus of agreement. It's always baffling to me why certain people think they have the right to direct others in the way they should live. As a community, the only thing we all have in common is that we were born male. (TG bros excepted of course)
Why is it so hard to understand that our experience is unique to ourselves. It's funny that no matter what you do or how you do it, there will be a certain group of people who are convinced you're doing it the wrong way.
In my "humble" opinion, we should all be free to express our gender identity in whatever manner we choose. I'm in the middle of my transition so I literally look like I'm somewhere in between. I'm definitely out in the open, but I don't resent my closeted sisters one little bit. Hell I was there myself, and in fact am only coming out professionally at a measured pace. (people who don't know I'm trans just think I'm gay)
You gotta do what works for YOU.
Anne, you do what you think is best for YOU and your family. I say that to everyone here, not just you. Closet, out, semi out, whatever. As I've said numerous times, this is NOT a one size fits all issue. It's different for each and every one of us.
This is a great place to learn and try to understand what drives us to be the way we are. It's a great place to make new friends and be able to discuss things that we just can't talk about with anyone else. But........there are always going to people who simply cannot agree to disagree. It's their way or the highway in many circumstances. Unfortunately, there are a handful of people just like that here.
Honestly, I have been able to communicate with some great people here and there are many others who I would like to, but there are others who, when I see a post from them, I simply ignore it because I know it will be more of the same....."you must tell...you must come out", etc. We all have to do whats in our best interests, and if being in the closet is in your best interest, then stay there. Be happy there. Enjoy your time there.
The current, most widely used definition for the term "transgender" is as an umbrella term that includes everyone whose gender presentation or identity varies, in any way, from the so-called normal of male=man=wears only men's clothes and female=woman=wears only women's clothes. Crossdressers, according to that definition, are definitely included in the transgendered category. The term transgender is a VERY vague, non-specific term nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by kendra_gurl
I can understand both sides of the discussion. Time and time again, I see CD's post here and in other forums, lamenting about why won't society accept us? Well, part of the reason that society is hesitant to welcome us is the fear of the unknown. If we don't get out in public and let the non-TG public see that we're nothing to be feared, then things will never change.
And on the other hand, there are parts of the world where going out dressed up may result in being physically attacked or jailed, maybe even killed. Legal protections in the US are slowing coming, but in many situations, coming out at work may very likely have a big negative impact on one's employment. Even where it's illegal to discriminate based on gender identity, there are usually ways around the law if an employer wants to fire you for being TG.
Carol
If you want to know what bad effect being fully in the closet can have on the comunity as a whole, all you need to do is look at what the right wing used against against anthony Weiner. OH MY GOD. And guess what....in the friggin closet.
Meanwhile there is the mayor of Silverton Washington (or oregon, I forget) who came completely out, and attends civic functions in skirts and other items of women's clothing, with his wife sometimes by his side, so that IT COULD NOT BE USED AGAINST HIM. Something I am so looking forward to in the future.
Hiding helps no one. (yes, pot calling kettles black, I know)
This is the thing I have an issue with reading this thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
Not everyone is out to help anyone other than themselves, let alone a community that in reality consists mostly of strangers! Some are not willing, some are simply not able for personal or what ever reason.. I think one must have the right tools, mental and otherwise before you can efficiently help others.. If I've only just learnt to doggypaddle in the shallow end barely keeping my head above water, would you let me teach your (future) kids to swim in the ocean?
To use another swimming analogy, I learnt to swim when as a kid(4 or 5) my grandfather threw me in the deep end, I loved water ever since, others get thrown in the deep end, learn to fear water and never swim again!
Is it selfish to know ones own limitations? Hardly! Is being selfish a bad thing in all instances?! Not on my life! A very important rule of 'first aid' and scuba diving for instance is DO NOT try to save someone if it puts yourself in serious danger!! Selfish? Some would say so, but it is so for very good reason!
In this instance is it not selfish to say "you're not helping me, so what you're doing is wrong"?!
Just keep in mind, much change for the better on this planet has come from one individual who with patience and persistence often at great personal expense changed society, Ghandi, Jesus, Mandela, The first coloured lady who refused to sit in the coloured section of the bus, Madam Curie, the list goes on!
If the shoe fits wear it! But I know my feet are not big enough to fill such shoes! :)
Peace,
Ever notice those who scream the loudest about being out [ joanagreenleaf ] doesn't even have the b!!!s.... umm ... nerve to post a photo?:devil:
Anne, I like your style and your love and respect for your wife and child shines on thru.
Sincerely
Presh GG
I find Anne's post to be a very eloquent,and well thought out one.She is being true to herself and protecting her family at the same time.It suprises me the comments from people who have absolutely no knowledge of her circumstances,telling her to "MAN UP" if you will and out herself at work,to family etc.Only Anne knows how it will be recieved by everyone in her life.I would say,even us that do go out a majority still probably hide this part of us from a large percentage of ppl in our Lives out of a sense of self preservation.
Anne do what you think is right,and to hell with those that wanna verbally abuse you for it.Better to be safe in your closet than being outed and left with nothing
Sophie
I am very proud to say that I an NOT a 'Transgendered" I am a crossdresser who happens to be very happy to be a man but enjoy the finer things that females get to. There is no way that I could nor want to be a woman. There are those who do and I wish them the best, but I am very happy with the one 'NUT' that I have left.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigella
:thumbsdn::thumbsdn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigella
You forgot to say "Not that there's anything wrong with it."Quote:
Originally Posted by veroncia69
Newsflash, you're as TG as the rest of us.
[B]It isn't supposed to be therapeutic to anyone but the CD themselvesQuote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
I think your personal desires have gotten the better of your common sense. Cding is just never going to be mainstream no matter how many go out en femme.
Just my opinion , of course. Fighting our own inner demons is enough battle without being recruited to fight someone else's battle.[/B
You contradict yourself here. Nigella did not say that apart from the GG's we are all transsexual, she said we are all transgender.Quote:
Originally Posted by veroncia69
If you lookup the word "Transgender" you will see that it covers everyone who crosses (trans) the gender stereotype - including but not limited to crossdressers.
So according to you, you are not transgender, you are transgender. Guess what, that is self-contradictory.
[SIZE="2"]Do me a favor, and DO NOT empower the ones who detest closeted crossdressers – you should know better, and it certainly doesn’t help to belittle individuals who may have good reason to “hide,” as you have so shamefully stated in your post. Honestly, they put all types of crossdressers in the same "basket," for lack of a better word, and it is completely unsupportive to split hairs about a subject you may not be familiar with. In certain familial or societal circumstances, for some good people, it may be a good idea to NOT come out – just because someone feels superior to others by their personal achievement of incorporation into society doesn’t give them the right to preach about what is right for EVERYONE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
I assume we’re all here because we have a different “take” on crossdressing, correct? An accepted form of MtF crossdressing, approved by the membership and sanctioned by same was not presented for my "signature" when I joined this discussion pit, so I assume all types of crossdressing are allowed here, and ALL members can seek support through interaction with other CD’ers. I did not have to jump through any hoops to post messages here, but you are, in essence, asking some members to “measure up” to a certain standard, and bend to fit YOUR idea of what true crossdressing is. This is very painful, and you should realize that fact before you gather any words together on this subject. I honestly think that this forum can be separated into two camps – the ones who respect the feelings of others, and the ones that don’t. If you respect the feelings of others you MAY wind up in the closet, but you are no less a crossdresser, or a human being, than the next individual...
:straightface: [/SIZE]
Frederique,
Excuse me,
You should know better than to think I am belittling ANYONE!!! Your should also know better than to think I am measuring myself against anyone!!! You of all people. You who post such thought provoking things should Know far better than to think such.
I was stating what to many here is a fact. Hiding just continues this being a taboo. Period END!!.
I expect NO ONE to fit to my ideas of what is "true"crossdressing, because I myself am NOT a true crossdresser!!. I am ME, no one wants to be like me, and I am perfectly fine with that. I do not think I am better than someone. But when I see behavior that reinforces the incorrect assumptions about a group I speak up. Yes it may make me out to be an ass, but I will say on an unrelated note, in the past I was an ass, but now, the person that thought me an ass is indeed seeing that I was correct. This happens to me all the friggin time.
Hiding DOES NOT help anyone. It helps continue the idea that crossdressers are ashamed of what they do. They are hurting NO ONE, and yet they hide as if they are committing some heinous act. Meanwhile, the drunk ruining the family, or the gambler wasting the money is COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY out in the open!!!.
To most of the people out in the "real world" crossdressers ARE less than human. When the only "public" cds are the likes of the ones that get most of the news, it is no bloody wonder that we are considered such. I simply state what I do, because it is what I feel.
I frankly am sick of feeling the need to hide AT ALL. But my minimal hiding is necessary and will continue to be so, until those of us in this community do as the women did, and what the gays did, and have no fear, and get the hell out. I intend to do that when for me the time is right. I am currently NOT successful, I am currently NOT well off. Now if I was content with being where I am in life, I would just be right out, but at the moment due to what I am shooting for in SOME areas of my life, I must hide. I hate it with a passion, but I must. But it is not my WHOLE life from which I hide, just a portion of it. As I said, I am quite open to those not connected to my aviation, nor my immediate family.
A poster here stated crossdressing will never be fashionable in our lifetimes, well no duh, especially when the prevailing attitude is like this. I am more than sure women that wanted the vote were told by other women " We will never get the vote in our life time". Common, that is nothing but a cop out, and you darn well know it.
and this final quote is why we are our own worst enemy.Quote:
I think your personal desires have gotten the better of your common sense. Cding is just never going to be mainstream no matter how many go out en femme.
Just my opinion , of course. Fighting our own inner demons is enough battle without being recruited to fight someone else's battle.[/B
and yes, to the one that posted that quote, it is possible to be partway out of the closet. The in the closet people I try to encourage to get out, are the ones that don't even go out to parties, or cd groups or social events CDed, I am referring to those that HIDE in the closet the entire time they are enfem. One MAIN reason I find this to not be wise is, that if they get "caught" they are in for a world of hurt the likes of which they never ever thought of. If you are content with running that risk, then so be it. But please don't come posting here about getting caught when (not if) you do, and your life explodes into a super nova.
By the way, I am constantly measured against others and often times am the inferior, so don't think I don't know what it is like. Do you know what it does for me, it gives me a target to improve about myself. Unless I just don't give a fig about that measurement.
(The preceding views are those of Pythos, and may echo what many here think, but most likely are just thoughts that will piss everyone off)
Can it be correctly stated that the issue is centering around:
Is it a moral imperative of a crossdresser to fight for social justice at the risk of his/her real or perceived loss of relationships and/or income?
It is an awful lot to expect of every crossdresser in every type of situation. I just think that's a very heavy load of guilt/shame placed on a person in addition to that of society.
It takes enormous courage for a crossdresser to come out to one single person. I very nearly blacked out when I told my wife last year. Now, she is a believer that crossdressers are not to be feared but to be celebrated. Have I contributed to the "cause" of societal acceptance of crossdressers? I think so. Was it risky? It sure was! The person I treasure more than anyone in this world could have rejected me.
It's my perception that those who consider themselves in the closet have revealed their need to CD to at least one person. I consider that courageous and deserving of a big "thank you" from the CD community as a whole. I view that as social change at the lowest of grassroots level. Instead, the reaction I see in this forum is "why aren't you doing more?!"
I want to make clear that my motivation is not to antagonize. I really love you all. It is painful to me to read this thread because people I care about are getting their feelings hurt. I know I'll get s**t for putting a value on people's feelings when there's a "social war to fight," but I am naturally an extremely compassionate person, and I know no other way.
I need to find one of Karren Hutton's posts showing her wonderful humor, or a what-color-panties-are-you-wearing thread to lighten my mood. I need to avoid this thread because it's making me sad.
I hide what I do in my bedroom or who with, sexually that is! (More people should), yet it's not a taboo, if you can go by the worlds population, or the porn industries gross profit! :heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
Practice what you preach, it's the best way to get people to follow dear Pythos! You feeling you need to hide is no-ones burden but your own, inflicting it on others is unfair at the least!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
Maybe not wise, or maybe it is, we are not to judge that, not walking in their shoes we can never know.. As for posting here, is support and sympathy here or elsewhere just restricted who believe as we do? Great purple space pixie help me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
Hugs and understanding for your situation..
There is nothing I could say that has not been said ten times (and better!) already above. But I would like you to know that staying in the closet is OK if that is what you want. It's your life, and you do not have to do anything you do not want to for someone else's greater good. Those negative commenters are like feminists who get angry when a woman chooses to stay home and take care of the children. They claim to be fighting for your rights, but really they want you to become exactly like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Presh GG
Presh,
Nice cat-suit. It suits you, I suppose - claws and all. I'm a "cat person..." So, it's all good...
By the way, have you noticed that people with weak arguments resort to arguments against the person rather arguments against their (better) ideas?
I have - you should.
When Anne's world falls apart - wife, child, job, and all - due to crossdressing - and the next long set of posts here is about "lying," "deception," and, "dishonesty" from crossdressing husbands, fathers, brothers, sons, co-workers, etc. I hope you'll remember that "balls" are only as good as the person using them.
Anne can do better - and should - that's the only thing I have really said all along.
I do, for the most part.Quote:
Practice what you preach, it's the best way to get people to follow dear Pythos! You feeling you need to hide is no-ones burden but your own, inflicting it on others is unfair at the least!
I have given some thought to this though. I am wrong. I am wrong to want help from people in the same boat as me in several respects. I need to accept there are those that would rather hide than try to advance things for future generations. Thus continuing the cycle that provides the impulse to hide.
Yes, bedroom stuff should stay in the bedroom. Last I checked women do not wear skirt suits in the bedroom all the time. They do not wear everyday items exclusively for bedroom things. Now, if the closet crossdressing is mostly limited to lingerie, and or underwear and nothing else, then yea, staying in the closet is what is best, in fact it is expected. I am talking about men wearing the same styles as women do out in the "real world" but staying hidden.
Okay, so my former stance is wrong. People should hide. They should do nothing. Those of us that do will just hopefully get the recognition that trail blazers got in other areas of civil rights. (or a bullet in the head...most likely by someone that has something closeted in his or her life). I just hope that if my life gets ruined by someone that hates what I represent, that someone is hiding some big secret, exposing hypocrites is fun. (I am not implying anyone here would ruin someone else's life, but I am well aware that those that attack someone's character is often hiding even worse secrets.)
"Practice what you preach, it's the best way to get people to follow dear Pythos! You feeling you need to hide is no-ones burden but your own, inflicting it on others is unfair at the least!"
1) Practicing what you preach is preaching what you practice. But, it's still practice, not perfection.
2) Feeling the need to hide, on her part, is largely the result of so many others needing to hide too. So, it is not just her burden. But, she's aware of the power of numbers and the lost and wasted energy from having to go forward alone, when we aren't...
3) Nature has built into us the "primal scream..." When attacked by a lion and dealing with imminent injury, pain, and probably death - men, women, and children of all ages, races, cultures, and times, emit an unmistakable and almost indescribable sound of alert, fear, and, danger - all at the same time.
Is it "inflicting" something on others to make certain sounds in certain circumstances, or, a perhaps unasked for, but much needed, gift?
If Joana DOES post photos, I am voting for pics of stockings, high heels, mini skirt. But no photos of her "nerves" (as Presh put it hahah)Quote:
Originally Posted by Presh GG
Did I miss the point of this thread again?
More thinking.
I guess the way this needs to be looked at is in the same way "witches" hid. If they were to reveal themselves they got a one way ticket to the stake.
Hmmm.
So are we the equivalent of the likes of women wrongly accused of practicing witchcraft? Or something along those lines. Then in that case we are completely justified to hide.
Need to do more thinking on this.
I think THIS is at the very heart of the tendency for members here to hide. Numbers are very important, and I feel, that if all of us were to surface at once on one day the numbers would be stunning.Quote:
Feeling the need to hide, on her part, is largely the result of so many others needing to hide too. So, it is not just her burden. But, she's aware of the power of numbers and the lost and wasted energy from having to go forward alone, when we aren't...
There are many reasons why anyone does what they do, but the biggest reason for not doing anything is fear.
In the case of being in the closet, which I respect by the way, but firmly believe that it is unfair to hide this from an SO, fear of what would happen if people found out is the biggest thing that holds people back.
There is of course a consensus that society has a view of crossdressers which has become stereotypical. How do we break that stereotyping, TBPH we cant, when we, as a community fuel that stereotyping.
I think this quote from earlier needs to be reposted.
In my case, I am not meaning to hurt anyone here. I am trying to get people to really look at what they are doing. Nigella stated it wonderfully and with more eloquence than I ever could. Crossdressers are still considered VERY deviant (and in many eyes, evil), and when we act, as if what we do is wrong, we just fuel that line of thinking. I am not in anyway clear of adding fuel. I have said, I hide. I hide from my mother, due to her past reactions, and I hide from my other job. Do I want to, and do I want to continue? NO. I want the day to come that I can be fully open, but, and this is the important part, I cannot do it alone. I have a hard enough time with my own personal style. But that difficulty is decreasing the more and more I get out.Quote:
Always try to remember that this Forum is about People expressing their opinions. Otherwise it would look a lot like some well known Conservative Talk Show where all we have is Clones agreeing with The Self-Proclaimed Guru of Conservative Thought.
If you stick around, you will get lots and lots of people not agreeing with you. (Just as some will disagree with me) But, with A Forum like this you also achieve "Discourse." As you already stated, we learn a lot from listening to The Ideas of others.
It would seem I have lost a friend here due to my stance. What saddens me is that person chose to argue in PM, opposed to stating their case in this thread. This sucks, but it is the result when someone forgets the above notion. This is a discussion group, we should discuss things.