Even if one works in an at-will state or locality that also has trans employment protections, it is still one's burden to prove it. Unless the employer is a total moron and admits that is why they fired you, it is almost impossible to prove.
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Even if one works in an at-will state or locality that also has trans employment protections, it is still one's burden to prove it. Unless the employer is a total moron and admits that is why they fired you, it is almost impossible to prove.
As much as I would like to extend my CDing to another venue such as work, I do not have the guts to be the ground-breaker. Now if someone else was to be the first, maybe after a while I would feel comfortable enough to do it myself.
I would love to.. I do however work directly with the public so I am reasonably certain that would be frowned upon epsecially since I live in the south. I like to keep things somewhat private anyhow. The older I get though the less I care about what others think.. so maybe someday.. :)
I have a job that is about as secure as it gets. But I am not transgender. I love wearing skirts and dresses and ACTING as a woman, and getting feedback on my outfits from women. But my job involves a lot of status based on honesty, and acting is not really something that would fit in with this. It simply would not work. There would be acceptance of me as I want to dress on a social level, but professionally it would be very difficult to do my job, even though it would be theoretically the same, and my job is very important to me. One person has changed gender with no problems, but that is not for me. I have so much already I do not need to go this extra distance. I can wear whatever I want all the rest of the time, and that is enough.
Lol. This is a very interesting question. I am a doctor and I work with people evryday. I believe patients tend to respect doctors a bit more than they would respect other people and it is not a good idea to show to work dressed en femme. In terms of employers, I think they would be more receptive and accepting of it if I were to apply for a job in the psychiatric dept vs the orthopaedic dept. The orthopods are all 100% man ya know.. lol
He already knows, I am the employer.
I will one day soon when I start my transition
i would not.
the only time such would need to be said is if you just started to do the correcting thing. but then he/she would be hiring me as such any how.
there is work and it is only a very small part of my "life"....sure it takes up most of it. but none of there "need to know stuff".
.
Yes, that about sums it up. I'm not, so I can't. :straightface:Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Generally, it's not good for a company to have employees they consider indispensable. They don't become indispensable, they make themselves so, often for devious reasons. If you have employees you consider indispensable, fire them. Not really, but remove that condition, even if you have to fire them. Some companies have policies requiring employees to take their vacation time in week-long (or two) increments, rather than a day at a time, for the very reason of making sure that no one is indispensable, and also to see if any fraudulent activities will come to light in their absence.
Although my state has protective laws against discrimination against cross dressers(and my city enhances that law), I would not ask any prospective employer whether I could be en femme. Nor would I consider working en femme, if I had not asked my prospective employer if I could work en femme. It is virtually impossible to prove on an individual basis whether you were denied employment because you asked that question. You'd have to have numerous CD-ers rejected for a job they were fully qualified for and the job is awarded to another. Unless the employer/interviewer is stupid and clearly states a discriminatory bias, it is difficult to prove anything.
That being said, I'd love to have had the opportunity to be a server in a gay/lesbian/transgender restaurant. I would love to wear a white blouse, black skirt, black hosier and black heels and a little white apron. In that environment I'd suspect if you told the prospective employer you are straight, you may not get hired.
There is only one reason your employer needs to know you dress, and that is if your dressing is because you are considering transition, or living as your female persona. If you have no intention of transitioning, or living as your female persona, there is no reason you should consider bringing crossdressing up to an employer, or potential employer. As a MtF crossdresser, who has no intentions of going "full-time" with this aspect of my life, this part of my life shall remain a secret as far as my employer is concerned.
Funny they will hire people with tatoos on their faces, multiple piercings, with a green mohawk...but DON'T GET CAUGHT WEARING A PAIR OF PANTIES OMG THAT WOULD BE THE END!!!
I will wait until they tell me I HAVE TO wear a bra!...
"Would you ever tell employers that you cross dress?"
Uh, absolutely not. I want to continue my employment. I'd like to find employment again if I need to.
Why? I'm a contract worker. I work in a very conservative environment. I live in a very conservative state. My home is in an overwhelmingly conservative parish. I do not personally know of a single person that admits to being a Democrat or liberal or progressive. We have one statewide elected official that belongs to the Democratic party and she is really a Republican in political drag. Our politicians are well known nationally for pushing their Evangelical Christian agenda on us all. People still feel comfortable discriminating against, blacks, homosexuals, Hispanics and Atheists in the workplace. My circle of friends is small and tight.
That's life in small town Louisiana.
No way ... Absolutely not ... My personal life is for my consumption only
The real shame here is that once you are forthright in telling someone [that you consider important enough ..employer,etc] THEN their opinion of you changes instantly,yet you are still the same person that they considered "great",a second before...I work for myself in a phobic environment[the commercial waterfront]. I am not always indespensible,for every customer,so I try to keep my distance.Only a few people on the waterfront know Rogina.
noooooo!!!!!!!!! i'm a mechanic ,i dont think that the other guys in my shop would understand .....lol plus i would take a chance of hurting my job, and thats how i support my family .IT SUCKS THAT I HAVE TO KEEP IT IN THE CLOSET
I'm coming into this thread late, so I apologize if some of this has been discussed, I sort of skimmed it. But my thoughts Klaire are that if all you want to do is add some feminine flaire to your day-to-day outfit, I think actually having a talk with your employers about it beforehand would be the wrong move. I think doing so would make it seem like a bigger deal than it is. Instead what I would suggest is to just slowly start to integrate the things you want to wear into your wardrobe, pieces at a time. Why not buy a purse that is a bit more unisex looking, for example I usually carry a small cross-body canvas bag that doesn't scream "WOMEN'S PURSE" even though it is one, and I do this often in male mode even when I wear jeans. I'm sure you could find something similar and bigger to start bringing to work, and eventually bring nicer handbags in. Plenty of men carry nice bags these days, I'm sure it wouldn't be a big issue if you did. If anyone asks about it, just play it off as no big deal. Also, I have worn women's jeans to work countless times without anyone noticing or making any comments, same with women's flared dress trousers.
I've never officially "come out" to my HR or anyone at my job about my crossdressing, I've told anyone who has asked, because I have dressed as a girl for the past two halloweens and I do wear eye makeup on occasion, so I'm pretty open about it, but it's not something I ever had to have a sit down talk with anyone about and I think doing so would have made it seem like a bigger and worse issue than it really is.
Seriously though, I think if you just slowly integrate different pieces of your wardrobe in bit by bit people won't really notice it as something to make an issue out of, and I can speak from personal experience, it can be kind of a fun game deciding what to wear next.
I did & there's no problem actually. I'm lucky, I know. And grateful...
We have casual dress Fridays where I work (IT), although the dress code is fairly casual most of the time - some men always where suits, some a shirt and tie, others always casual. What the women wear varies similarly from dress trousers and blouse - to full skirt suit - to jeans and t-shirt.
Anyway, recently on Fridays I have been wearing women's boot-cut jeans with more feminine stitching (whatever that actually means) on the pockets. Last week I added a women's denim style shirt (worn open over a men's t-shirt) with studs on the shoulders and buttoned half-sleeves. Given current styles, I think it was fairly obvious that they were women's, however they could also have been seen as retro-men's with a late 70's look to them. I did get a couple of comments from work-friends about my new style - I think they think (and they wouldn't be too far off) that I'm going through some kind of mid-life crisis, and that I am in denial about getting older. My guess would be that it was probably obvious to the women, but that it wouldn't even cross the mind of most of the men. I think where I work people would be fairly relaxed about it (even if they did/do realise) at this level.
Skirts or dresses could well be a different matter, as I think it would just make people uncomfortable - work does have policies in place, but as others have said a gender-mix CD is rather different to a transitioning TS in terms of employment protection.
I'll see how it goes - I don't really want this to be my permanent Friday uniform. Plus if it is a regular thing, what would I change into to relax at home?
Susie
Klaire,
what you describe is my daily attire...fem slacks (even side zip), nice top/blouse (but very understated fem) fem shoes 99% of the time simple loafers and full under dress but no obvious bra lines/etc. I present as a male and have only had positive comments about being a classy dresser. That said, I see no reason why you should say anything to anybody. As far as talking to HR, I transitioned on the job with the blessing of my HR dept (almost at their insistence but thats another story) but I know that I had it lucky with VERY understanding employers. On another job many years later I had a medical issue...I couldn't wear pants for almost 6 weeks...and my female employer even said she'd not wear a pair of pants for 6 weeks if I would come to work in a skirt (what was it Nichole said about "indispensable"?) and she a butch lesbian. So, I wore skirts to work for close to 4 weeks...and so did she.
You'd be amazed at what you can do and people wont say a word...notice yes, but not say a word...
Jenn
Woulld I ever tell my employer? Not only NO, but hell NO! I don't like unemployment lines and job hunting. I have no reason to ever share this part of me with anyone other then those close to me.
My opinion is simple: If you are not a transsexual that will be undergoing transformation, then you have no good reason to ever tell an employer. For us that are crossdressers, all I have to say is get a grip and control your urges to dress or expose yourself to an employer or co-workers. If you don't need tha job, go for it.
Why is this true? Can someone please attempt to provide some insight as to why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crysten
Crossdressing has greatly hurt my career. Every time I had a job and gossip spread that I crossdressed they automatically thought I was gay. Then I was laid off or didn't go permanent on a temp job, adn the worst was at Synchro Start where I had a great permanent job that just degraded into a nightmare when they found out I crossdress. They made fun of me at the company Xmas party and then scammed / set me up to fire me and they denied my unemployment benefits.
Now if I get another job and crossdressing gossip surfaces I will be out and just tell them I'm not gay, I just like to crossdress because I'm beautiful. I have wallet pic of me to show how beautiful I look and that will be my excuse.
As far as work in concerned, I don't talk about where I work on the internet though any of my public personas or on stage (I do storytelling from time to time). Likewise, any conversations about my personal life at the office is strictly on a "need to know" basis. That being said, I have just finished a two-year term with our diversity council and plan to be more active supporting the LGBT affinity group this year. While I am not gay (relative to my birth gender that is), I do think there may be some value in sharing that I'm TG with that group. A lot of members of the group are either straight "allies" or "under the radar". That's not to say they are closeted, they're just concerned about potential impact to their careers. Sadly, LGBT still carries a negative stigma with those in position to make promotion/hiring decisions.
Yet, if no one was out at work, there would be no LGBT support group. Additionally, the "T" part of "LGBT" tends to be under-represented. I have outed myself to a long-time friend who works at the same place, partially to explain my empathy toward the LGBT group and partially because it was weird that she'd known me so long and never knew this about me.
I'm a bit torn between "My personal life is none of their business" and "T's need to be represented as well".
Thanks for all the comments on this, I was amazed at the results and the amount of them!
It is a shame most people think it is unwise to explain that you cross dress at work or do it (even in limited form). I fully understand that if you are Transgender and going through the latter stages in preparation to being female full time you have little choice and in a lot of cases it seems employers may understand or accept this (well in the UK I think they would anyhow, even if the staff where not so sure).
My main concern was that with me not falling in the LGBT bracket in any respect I would basically be doing something akin to shooting myself in the foot before running a marathon - and it seems I was right in that area. Shame really as someone rightly pointed out, we can have tattoos, piercings in pretty much any place and almost to any amount but we cannot wear clothes that make us comfortable without getting ridiculed. Sad how society has allowed this.
I am frankly amazed that the USA seems to be so anti on a large scale, when it is supposed to be (or was) the land of dreams. Perhaps it still is as long as those dreams do not involve wearing female clothes if you are not female. I Dunno.
I am currently evaluating my own situation at home and work. As I go away at times I do have dressing chances and public ones outside of the eyes of work which is good. But these can also fuel an annoyance at not being able to do it in other situations - so there is a trade off. I hope oneday that dressing at work would not be such an issue, but perhaps that requires another generation to overcome that issue and not my one :(
K
When I was an employer, I pretty much kept it to myself. It would not be a wise business decision to allow that cat out of the bag.
Now I am an employee. In my line of work (blue collar) everyone wears a uniform. Male or female, it is all the same.
Would I ever tell my boss. If the subject came up and he asked, I would be truthful. But I will not go out of my way to bring it up.
it's business...whatever makes the owner more $$ wins... having a guy walking walking around in clothing that bothers people (life is not fair) will never make the boss more money
lots of people will want you out for tattoos and earrings too...
Personal matters are almost never appropriate business matters... Need to know means tell no one..no one in the world "needs" to know about what you wear under your pants...if you wear black and green combat print underwear, who needs to know??
Even as a TS woman, if i was a boss, and you came to me and told me you crossdressed, i'd say why are you telling me this? and from that moment forward i'd make a mental note that you are an idiot.
I certainly hope you are kidding...a lot of TGs are CDs first and not all TGs are TS. Such a person could be in the process of "coming out" and see you as a safe person to come out to. Brushing them off as an "idiot" is a bit harsh, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele
not kidding
yes harsh... but also real.. it's business for crying out loud.....
it's a competitive harsh world...there are 3 good people for every job right now..
if you are bagging groceries(which i have done btw..), maybe nobody really cares...but if you have any meaningful responsibility, you are demonstrating very poor judgement
Its a bad strategy for a person coping with transsexuality to start their coming out process at work... it's just a flat out bad idea... i understand the urge...it's very real..but its work...its business...
If you are crossdressing for enjoyment, how can you possibly argue that's appropriate to bring into work??
having an affair, getting drunk at lunch, sending inflammatory emails that will end up traced to you, and telling your boss you'd like to wear some NY&Co city pants (cute as they are) to work are all stupid moves..
people still do them...but i would not trust your judgement if you did..
I totally support all of our rights from drag queens to transsexuals...but WORK is the EXACT wrong place to come out....ts people end up having no choice, and despite best laid plans of many, it still gets us marginalized at best, and fired at worst..
I can't think of a single reason to tell my employer. That is just not an appropriate subject, just as I would never feel compelled to tell my employer that I listen to industrial music. The logical response would be, 'why are you telling me thid, what is wrong with you?' If the motivation is to try to get a green light to crossdress at work, I would expect that to backfire. I wear business casual to work because I'm at WORK. I wear whatever I want at home.