How do you handle Straight Men?

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

Depends on the person.

I like men. I like men's manly parts.

I don't care for women... they're too... womany.

My boyfriend is FTM. He's a man, but missing a few parts :P It would be great if he had the right parts, but we make do with what we've got. What we have is more important than the physical.

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I just think people of this forum of all should see that there is more to gender identification than what sexual parts person has, otherwise the whole theatre about calling ourselves girls is stupid.
I think if somebody makes a convincing girl there is a good chance that she will attract straight men as well, if they find out about her "lower parts" it most likely will discourage them from further progress, but they may
still find a sexual way as sex can be very diverse thing.
Judging someone's sexuality purely on the physical sex attributes i think is a bit short minded. As in your example you like your man because he is a man, if he presented himself as a girl he might not be so appealing for you.

For me it's also important that my girlfriend is at least bi-curious , as if she merely tolerated me as Matia, I don't think it would really work for either of us.

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Originally Posted by Matia

I just think people of this forum of all should see that there is more to gender identification than what sexual parts person has, otherwise the whole theatre about calling ourselves girls is stupid.

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I agree and I disagree. I'm transexual so I fit the classic definition of "I identify as a girl but was born with boy parts." My gender is not defined by my parts. But male crossdressers are not girls. They identify as men... they are men. Transexual girls are women because they identify as women. Then there are people who either don't yet know who they are, or reside somewhere between male and female.

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Originally Posted by Matia

I think if somebody makes a convincing girl there is a good chance that she will attract straight men as well, if they find out about her "lower parts" it most likely will discourage them from further progress, but they may
still find a sexual way as sex can be very diverse thing.

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I agree with the first part, if you can look the part. As far as still finding a sexual attraction once you know what their concealing, it really depends on the person. Either the person would have to be bisexual, pansexual or very open minded. But you're limiting this to physical attraction in public and physical attraction in the bedroom. You're leaving out attraction to the person inside the body, which is totally different.

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Originally Posted by Matia

Judging someone's sexuality purely on the physical sex attributes i think is a bit short minded.

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Physical attraction plays a huge role in relationships. But I think you're preaching to the choir here since I already mentioned my man doesn't have all those man parts that I am attracted to. He is handsome as hell though and I've learned to love some of the not-so-manly parts he does have.

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Originally Posted by Matia

As in your example you like your man because he is a man, if he presented himself as a girl he might not be so appealing for you.

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Nope. I'm not attracted to femininity. It's a turn-off for me. But I'm not bi, I'm not pansexual or anything. I'm straight. Honestly though, it would have to do more with how he acts when he's crossdressing, not the fact that he's crossdressing. If he still acts like a dude, it's all good. Cloths are just cloths.

But I wouldn't be able to go into a lesbian club, find a chick who looks like an attractive guy and last more than a couple dates. I'm just not attracted to women.

I can handle different body parts more than I can different genders. But this is me expressing MY attractions. I don't speak for everyone.

The thing that would concern me about a "straight" man showing interest in Tina (besides the fact that men interest Tina not at all!!) is the questionable mental stability of a potential partner. Do you really want to hook up with a guy who can't come to grips with his own sexuality?

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

I agree and I disagree.....

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Please don't take what I'm saying too personally , I'm trying to have a kind of global debate. As it was previously mentioned in the thread, the whole problem here is pretty much about putting people in boxes, which doesn't really exist or do exist in the same way democracy or freedom does :) it's a concept. It may work for some and it might not for the others

Not too sure about crossdressers are automatically men, not in gender sense that is what I was trying to look into, if crossdressers are transgendered saying that they are just "men" in common sense is not entirely true. I think for transgendered people it may be ok to pose as both sexes .. they are kind of reversed bisexuals they may not be attracted by both sexes but are both sexes in one person.

I didn't mention personality, because the talk was kind of sex related, But ofcourse it's a crutial factor for falling in love, or spending more time with some person.

I might look to be on the edge at times, but I am rising the questions to find better understanding of the situation and myself.

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Originally Posted by Matia

Please don't take what I'm saying too personally , I'm trying to have a kind of global debate. As it was previously mentioned in the thread, the whole problem here is pretty much about putting people in boxes, which doesn't really exist or do exist in the same way democracy or freedom does :) it's a concept. It may work for some and it might not for the others

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No worries :) I don't take things personally on the internet. I'm just discussing it like you are :) I hope I didn't come off as offended or something... totally not my intent.

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Originally Posted by Matia

Not too sure about crossdressers are automatically men, not in gender sense that is what I was trying to look into, if crossdressers are transgendered saying that they are just "men" in common sense is not entirely true. I think for transgendered people it may be ok to pose as both sexes .. they are kind of reversed bisexuals they may not be attracted by both sexes but are both sexes in one person.

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Well, see, that's the definition of a crossdresser. Someone who is comfortable with their birth sex, identifies as that sex but likes to wear cloths of the opposite sex. Now, that definitely does not describe everyone in this forum or everyone who calls themselves crossdressers when they are really something more. I think there are a lot of people here who are physically male that call themselves crossdressers, but actually identify as somewhere between male and female, or totally female. They either haven't come to the realization that they are not 100% male, or they do realize it but still use the term crossdresser instead of transgender. The term transgender is basically anyone who does not conform to the gender binary. They either crossdress, identify as somewhere inbetween male and female, identify as the opposite sex or don't identify with any gender. Personally I don't believe classic crossdressers (men who identify as men and just like to wear women's cloths) should also be classified as transgender... because it's just cloths. They have no issues with their gender identity.

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Originally Posted by Matia

I didn't mention personality, because the talk was kind of sex related, But ofcourse it's a crutial factor for falling in love, or spending more time with some person.

I might look to be on the edge at times, but I am rising the questions to find better understanding of the situation and myself.

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Questions are awesome. :)

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Well, see, that's the definition of a crossdresser. Someone who is comfortable with their birth sex, identifies as that sex but likes to wear cloths of the opposite sex. Now, that definitely does not describe everyone in this forum or everyone who calls themselves crossdressers when they are really something more. I think there are a lot of people here who are physically male that call themselves crossdressers, but actually identify as somewhere between male and female, or totally female. They either haven't come to the realization that they are not 100% male, or they do realize it but still use the term crossdresser instead of transgender. The term transgender is basically anyone who does not conform to the gender binary. They either crossdress, identify as somewhere inbetween male and female, identify as the opposite sex or don't identify with any gender. Personally I don't believe classic crossdressers (men who identify as men and just like to wear women's cloths) should also be classified as transgender... because it's just cloths. They have no issues with their gender identity.

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That is a bit difficult, especially when access to therapists or phsychologists is so expensive.
Even here in Canada it's not covered by our government plan and it's really a shame.

I mean, how is someone supposed to know if they really are TG or if they're caught deep in a fog?
Unless you talk to someone who knows their stuff you might never know for sure.

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

Personally I don't believe classic crossdressers (men who identify as men and just like to wear women's cloths) should also be classified as transgender... because it's just cloths. They have no issues with their gender identity.

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I know we are back at the boxes :) but shouldn't this be called transvestism as a sexual fetish ( no offense meant ) If it's not sexual and people crossdress to mimick girls but they see themselves as boys, I'm kind of missing the point of such action. (or it's just a denial of fetish because it's social stigma?)

This is maybe just semantics, but I think for me it's more like both male and female rather than in between. In fact the androgynous inbetween-ness is not very appealing to me - I like to present myself either as a male or a female, the in between zone is not very comfortable for me to be honest. I still see myself as one person though. Naturally you can't change your body with different appearance, but that's not something you can change so easily, maybe all I am trying to say, is that if I could go further with the change, I would change my body as well ( similar to trans sexual ) but I would not want to do it permanently. So it's not just clothes, it's the law of physics and reality :) and a bit of common sense

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

That is a bit difficult, especially when access to therapists or phsychologists is so expensive.
Even here in Canada it's not covered by our government plan and it's really a shame.

I mean, how is someone supposed to know if they really are TG or if they're caught deep in a fog?
Unless you talk to someone who knows their stuff you might never know for sure.

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That's why it takes so long for some people to figure out who they really are. Thankfully, as people become more aware that gender, like sexuality does't always obey the rules we have created, people are able to learn who they are at younger and younger ages. These days there are parents who become aware that their children are transgender or transexual and let their child decide who they are and offer them the support they need. There are transexual kids that can grow up without having to deal with the dysphoria, depression and repression that the older generations were forced to deal with.

And I can all but guarantee that there are people who suffer their entire lives and die not knowing they were really transexual.

Thankfully I was able to find a good therapist when I needed one. I believe I would have still gotten this far on my own, but it would have taken much, much longer.

Without veering off the original topic, but to Bree's point mentioned above that Matia pointed out about being classified as transgender, I can say this: if you are in the process of transitioning, or planning to transition, or have transitioned, then you are transsexual. That's the classification. Maybe some of you who are transsexual don't like the sound of the word, but it is what it is.
Transgender is an umbrella term that suits many of us, including crossdressers.

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Originally Posted by Matia

I know we are back at the boxes :) but shouldn't this be called transvestism as a sexual fetish ( no offense meant ) If it's not sexual and people crossdress to mimick girls but they see themselves as boys, I'm kind of missing the point of such action. (or it's just a denial of fetish because it's social stigma?)

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I wouldn't say that, because not all men who like to wear women's cloths do it for the sexual thrill of it. You may not understand it, but that might be because you can't relate. I'm not a crossdresser... I don't really get any of it, but I accept that it exists and respect those who do it.

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Originally Posted by Matia

This is maybe just semantics, but I think for me it's more like both male and female rather than in between. In fact the androgynous inbetween-ness is not very appealing to me - I like to present myself either as a male or a female, the in between zone is not very comfortable for me to be honest. I still see myself as one person though. Naturally you can't change your body with different appearance, but that's not something you can change so easily, maybe all I am trying to say, is that if I could go further with the change, I would change my body as well ( similar to trans sexual ) but I would not want to do it permanently. So it's not just clothes, it's the law of physics and reality :) and a bit of common sense

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And this bit confirms for me that no, you probably don't understand men who crossdress because you yourself don't identify entirely as a man. But remember that while you feel this way, not everyone who crossdresses, or even everyone who is transgender does. And it's totally cool. I don't get it either lol. I have no desire to wear men's cloths... I don't know why men would want to wear women's cloths. But some people do, and that's totally cool too :)

Bree - what I understood on the forums so far, is that people who are men and prefer just to wear some female clothing, but they don't present themselves as women are probably not going to be appealing for the oppposite sex anyway (back to the original discussion) they are men in feminine clothing and that's the end of it (they don't try to be convincing or passable) Lots of girls are wearing men's clothing regularly, it's not raising any questions anymore nobody questions their gender or sexuality for it, we should treat these men equally.. But if girls were wearing male's clothes to be passable as men, they would certainly fit the transgender / crossdressing umbrella.

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Originally Posted by Matia

Lots of girls are wearing men's clothing regularly, it's not raising any questions anymore nobody questions their gender or sexuality for it, we should treat these men equally..

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I agree. It's a double standard which is ridiculous. Honestly... they're just friggin cloths. I had collared shirts as a guy and I have collared shirts as a girl. The only real difference is the girl's shirts are tailored to fit the body. OMG The horror or wearing cloths for the opposite gender!

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But as for what we were previously talking about, remember that there are multiple reasons why a man, happy with being a man, would want to crossdress.
So of course if there's some sort of fetish element associated with it.
Or he's not the macho man he always tries to be, and dressing up allows him to express his feminine, or gentler side.
Or maybe he just likes to pretend to be a girl, or likes to dress up like a girl like some people like to do cosplay.
Or maybe he just likes girl's cloths for the style/fashion.
I'm sure there are other reasons why someone comfortable in their male gender would want to crossdress. Maybe some could speak up if they do it for reasons other than what I listed here.

I can't tell you where I fit since I do not know myself.
To me CDing would be expressing a side that has been repressed for most of my life, but, due to circumstances I still have not been able to express.

I don't care about male me, I don't hate it but it's like a gray, shapeless blob.
I also know I'm not TS since from what I've read here a lot of experiences and thoughts don't line up.

Yay for confusion!

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

Yay for confusion!

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You've come to the right place :D

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

I also know I'm not TS since from what I've read here a lot of experiences and thoughts don't line up.

Yay for confusion!

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I would have said the same thing 6 years ago then years 5 to 0 I would have denied evn being a CDer in spite of a compulsion to wear woman's clothes on a regular basis. Then it happened and there is no going back, it hard to imagine that I fooled myself for so long!

Oh sure, fuel the confusion fire :P

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

I also know I'm not TS since from what I've read here a lot of experiences and thoughts don't line up.
Yay for confusion!

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What "experiences and thoughts don't line up." for you?

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

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You don't feel that strongly... yet!

Just kidding :D

It's not transition or death for everyone. But there should be a feeling stronger than "Mneh, yeah I'd like to be a girl" :P I mean... if I had a significant other and children to live for I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been so selfish as to consider ending it all. But I really didn't have much else.

Find out what's true for yourself. You'll go crazy trying to define who you are by comparing yourself to everyone else.

But if you don't like your junk... that kinda tells you something, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by Matia

they are men in feminine clothing and that's the end of it (they don't try to be convincing or passable) Lots of girls are wearing men's clothing regularly, it's not raising any questions anymore nobody questions their gender or sexuality for it, we should treat these men equally.

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Well that is the sum of it.
Unfortunately you will find that most [but not all] CD'ers do not want to "JUST" wear the clothes.
I feel there would be a lot more acceptance if they JUST wore the clothes as a man.
If it was done without the make up, wigs, forms, ect. ect.

As far as women wearing "men's" clothes, it raises no questions because it has been done for decades now and more importantly these women are not trying to be, act or look like men.

Maybe if CD'ing men followed the footsteps of the women they so richly want to "emulate" then maybe one day a man in dress will be looked at no differently then a woman wearing a "man's" whatever is now.

But alas, when the day comes any man can wear a dress I think the allure of doing so will be lost by CD'ers

Just a thought :heehee:

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

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We are all different, I had to be brought to the point of wanting to kill myself BECAUSE I had supressed it for the "good" of my wife and kids for so long. I figured it was better to be dead than shame them further. Therapy helped.

That being said I've never had a problem with my penis and I don't get why someone would want to ruin their chances for a decent sex life post op by mutilating the very parts needed to make the neovagina

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Originally Posted by whowhatwhen

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

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You gotta be careful about reading too much into what you read around here. Back in '09 I was totally confused because I'd never cross dressed and couldn't identify with what I was reading so I began to question if I had any gender issues at all. How could I be a transsexual if I wasn't even a cross-dresser? The prospect of HRT was terrifying so if you can imagine me trying my best to relate to panty threads than you can get a sense of how confused I was.

I don't hate my penis and it was not a matter of life and death for me either. I was experiencing some significant body issues but it was never genital related. (except my balls, never liked them)

My therapist was invaluable to me in helping find my direction. Who knows how long I would have stumbled along thinking I was just dealing with my sexuality. We all have a different story so if you take anything from here take this; we may all be walking the same path, but each of us walks alone.

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

(except my balls, never liked them)

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Yuck... who REALLY likes balls anyway? I think god got lazy on that day of creation :P

Wow, a lot of interesting commentary here... now I guess I'm gonna chime in again.

I have believed for some time now that words are not reality. You can say "gay" or "straight" or anything else, but the truth is that it doesn't matter. Everybody feels what we feel, and only the nitpicky choose to play games with labels.

I've seen sexy come in many forms. Sometimes it's even... ugly. But hot. Go figure. And it definitely comes in one gender or the other, places in between, and places completely off the map.

I think the fun is gone when you start worrying about it too much.

And, um... there can be good... um... spheres... down there. Really. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by darci.c

Wow, a lot of interesting commentary here... now I guess I'm gonna chime in again.

I have believed for some time now that words are not reality. You can say "gay" or "straight" or anything else, but the truth is that it doesn't matter. Everybody feels what we feel, and only the nitpicky choose to play games with labels.

I've seen sexy come in many forms. Sometimes it's even... ugly. But hot. Go figure. And it definitely comes in one gender or the other, places in between, and places completely off the map.

I think the fun is gone when you start worrying about it too much.

And, um... there can be good... um... spheres... down there. Really. Just my opinion.

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How true and it seems too many people think they have to label everything and make a big deal about being politically correct.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Lynn

How true and it seems too many people think they have to label everything and make a big deal about being politically correct.

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I like to "label" as you call it, but it is not to be politically or perhaps morally correct. I think there is a necessity for definition in a realm filled with people who have a hard time defining themselves, let alone letting their wives know who they are and what they want exactly. Or who perhaps might find it difficult to tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

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Originally Posted by Sammy777

Well that is the sum of it.
Unfortunately you will find that most [but not all] CD'ers do not want to "JUST" wear the clothes.
I feel there would be a lot more acceptance if they JUST wore the clothes as a man.
If it was done without the make up, wigs, forms, ect. ect.

As far as women wearing "men's" clothes, it raises no questions because it has been done for decades now and more importantly these women are not trying to be, act or look like men.

Maybe if CD'ing men followed the footsteps of the women they so richly want to "emulate" then maybe one day a man in dress will be looked at no differently then a woman wearing a "man's" whatever is now.

But alas, when the day comes any man can wear a dress I think the allure of doing so will be lost by CD'ers

Just a thought :heehee:

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But that's what I followed through, for many of us it is more than just clothes, that is the point I wanted to stress, you can wear any female clothing right now as a man and if you do it as a fashion statement and you are confident enough, it would be accepted much easier. If you wear breast forms, wig and hip pads, obviously you are in it not just for clothes but the whole girly image, - for me , this is what is a difference between a crossdresser and let's say open minded fashionable man

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

Yuck... who REALLY likes balls anyway? I think god got lazy on that day of creation :P

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He just likes testicluar trauma humor and didn't want funniest home videos to lose 90% of it's content.
:D

Thanks for the kind words though, I'll figure it out in time thanks to this awesome forum.