Well I tend to identify more with transgender but with my current situation crossdresser is fine ^_^
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Well I tend to identify more with transgender but with my current situation crossdresser is fine ^_^
Nice one, Freddy! Thanks!
Absorbing comments, just like your responses...
I'm a CDer.... I'm male and want to remain so... but maybe I'm transsexual and havn't ealised it yet...
I'm just glad I've lived half my life, am enjoying it...
and I am looking forward to an uncertain future
:hugs:Gaby
I have been a crossdresser longer than many of you have been alive, since I have been a crossdresser since age 6 and am now 80! I have never wanted to actually be a woman, or even to perform sexually as one. I am a man and proud of it! But I do like to wear feminine things, from the skin out. I wear panties and a bra almost every day, and usually a skirt and top or a dress some part of the day. My late wife knew that I did this and had no problem with it. So my answer is; YES, I AM A CROSSDRESSER and nothing further!
I am not a fan of the words "just a crossdresser" as I interpret them to imply that we who identify as crossdressers are not quite at the same level as others. Even the term "crossdresser" covers a wide range of activities. Some of us totally present as women while others are happy with partially dressing to some degree. Some "underdress" only; some are fetishists.
I have wondered a bit lately about this and other sites with "crossdesser" in their name. I do not know of any that restrict membership to "just crossdressers". I think that the important issue is that we all are respectful of others, regardless of how they see themselves or we see ourselves.
Loved your post Freddy and agree 100%. Another crossdresser here and have often wondered if crossdressers.com was originally crossdressing focused rather than on gender identity issues. As a crossdresser I'm interested in the former and bored by the later so I often have to take a break from this forum because it seems dominated by TG and TS members. Keep posting your interesting, amusing, and thoughtful essays.
I'm one as well, Freddy. I'm really not into separating ourselves, so i got very little problem with the TS, TG< GG, DQ, Fetishists, etc. who want to post here, they are mostly all good people. Occasionally some threads get hijacked, or we see overbearing activity from a few, and I do get bored sometimes when the topics are repetitive or about issues I have no interest in, but it's still all good.
Now I thought you were a Transvestite Freddy. :-)
I am with Carole in that saying "just" implies lesser than something else. So I don't like to think of myself as ever being "just". But what am I? Maybe by the time I kick the bucket I will know. This is still a journey for me. My thoughts go back and forth. All I can say for now is that I am "just" being me. :-)
Hi All. Another"crossdresser" here. I have no desire to have surgery or pass as female fulltime. That said, I do LOVE being out and about in femme attire. I feel that we all have our similarities, and differences, same as EVERYBODY else!
We are ALL part of the human race , so why give a F*** about the little differences or the labels ?
Ditto for the first part, but the second part is eroding away.....for me anyway. I've already done a year and a half worth of beard removal (electrolysis & laser) so i can be more passable when out in public, and now my hair is shoulder legnth.Quote:
Originally Posted by FeliciaCDSNJ
It's one thing to put on a wig and a dress & heels, and dress up as a woman, but once your daily grooming habits completely encompass every and all female esthetics, i.e. long hair, pierced ears, no facial hair, pedicures, shaved legs, the whole nine yards 24/7/365, and utilizing a wardrobe that sees daylight/ightlife beyond your front door, it becomes a part of you, or in some cases all of you.
Put me down for "Crossdresser"... I love being a guy, father and husband. I just have a feminine side that needs some expression. I love women's fashion and their choices for clothing... I'm envious of them!
Having been both defended and vilified for my particular niche on the spectrum I am not convinced that I don't fall a notch or two shy of "just a crossdresser." I suspect the Jonestown Passing Brigade is still less than pleased with me. Thankfully a number of the responses to the thread have reminded me why I continue to come here. The vocal minority will always be here and be loud but increasingly more often there are people I read about who think closer to how I do.
And I will thank them not to expect that simply because that piece of fabric has only one hole for legs that I must also necessarily think look and act like their concept of what a wearer of single-holed fabric pieces must be!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythic
That is a man who I would happily have a cup of coffee with!Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyJameson
I prefer my face to be shaved personally but have no interest in wigs or forms. I have encountered far more resistance and some downright nastiness here in the digital world than I ever have out and about in the actual world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melanie Sykes
I will concede an outfit or two that needed improvement and I work on those. Like you I prefer to be well mannered, polite and at least modestly covered (even if we disagree on style.) Can someone please explain with substance how that harms "our community" more than only allowing the truly small minority out who pass?
It's amazing how a group of people you actually think should be your peers can affect how you feel about yourself as opposed the general public reactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by StacyPump
If I stay long enough there just might be others like me or at least close enough that being true to me won't pull them down and I can simply be what I am; a man, almost just a cross dresser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica27
I wouldn't suggest that you ever come to California because a lot of women don't fit this description and would break your heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by NathalieX66
I think the forum readers/posters might enjoy reading this philosophical article published in 1974 titled "What's it like to be a bat"?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...h0Elyg&cad=rja
The link opens a pdf of the article which is about 6 pages sans footnotes
You can substitute CD or TS or TG for the word bat, and I think the article will work. Being passable (in your subjective eyes) is not the same a being a woman (seen THROUGH her eyes). Women don't ever think about being "passable" and probably never think about being women. I'm not trying to be rude here, I just think that exterior things have a very definite limit.
I, like so many, define myself as crossdresser.
When I joined here a few years ago I didn't really have a clue where I fell in the CD spectrum. I just liked to wear skirts or dresses and thought I couldn't possibly be the only one in the world like this. The more I read, posted and asked questions the more I discovered about myself and "our world". I pushed beyond anything I thought I could or would do. I met and shared stories with other CDers. I bought shapewear, wigs and make up, and then hit the busy shopping malls and experienced the smiles and stares of a thousand spectators.
All the while, I remained simply a "crossdresser".
I know this now because no matter how many dresses wear, or however convincing my overall presentation is, I have never felt trapped in the wrong body, or have any desire whatsoever to have surgery. In fact I sometimes feel like a bit of a fraud when I log on to crossdressers.com.....probably unwarranted!
Sorry if I overdid the response, I just got onto a train of thought and kept on typing :)
I hate labels.
But yes I am a cross dresser.
When I crossdress I fantasize that I am a woman and try to transform my body with attached forms, corset and control top panties to hide all signs of my male hood.
I do have a therapist and have been trying to figure myself out. LOL
If I could take a pill an be female ... would I.
Most likely yes.
I have been thinking about starting hrt.
I do love women and would love a gf who is accepting.
Who knows .... I guess I am a cross dresser PLUS. LOL
Just a crossdresser here as well, I am 100% male, except for the fact that I like to wear womens clothes occasionally. And even when I do wear womens clothes, I don't do makeup or a wig. I do owna wig, but never wear it.
Yet another wonderful piece from you, Freddy!
I have the same feelings as you. I'm a part-time crossdresser and proud of it! Like you, I don't have any urges to become feminine. It's something that's so foreign to my character that I can't imagine it. I can look at myself in a mirror and see a blank canvas ready for painting with a feminine image, not a male image that I dislike. That "painting" process is, in itself, immensely pleasurable. I can spend ages getting that image to look believable, with clothes, makeup & wigs - but it will never be a female character looking back at me; I know that and it doesn't trouble me in the least. That character will look and act as feminine as I can possibly manage though.
Now, if that lot makes some people want to label me as TG then that's fine with me if it makes them happy, although it isn't a label that I would use myself. I hate the use of labels where there can be any doubt whatsoever. I label myself as MtoF part-time crossdresser because that is exactly what I see myself as.
Strangely enough, I've made the opposite journey to you - from here to Rose's Forum! I still love this board but, as I'm in the UK, Rose's is far more relevant to me in a lot of ways. I make my position clear on there and, so far at least, I've not had any problems with other members "looking down" on me as a "mere" crossdresser. (I love the Chat Room on there in an evening!)
If you feel as if you would like to PM me about these points then please do so.
I am a crossdresser as well, like being who I am both as male and female,, I do have bi tendencies as well only when dressed,,,but I JUST HAVE TO BE WHO I AM,,,(just me)
[SIZE="2"]In the immortal words of a certain TG individual, “What are you going to do when you get there?” More importantly, what do I wear for the final judgment? :idontknow:[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Marleena
[SIZE="2"]All things being equal, as they should be, if we are on a discussion forum for crossdressers we should tolerate all crossdressers. Some love doing it, some are ambivalent about doing it, some are worried about doing it, and some would rather not be doing it, “it” being crossdressing. I take issue when certain individuals knock down those who LOVE to crossdress – I think there is room for some enthusiasm around here, especially for those who are looking to verify their fragile CD existence in some way. The pressures of the real world are certainly debilitating, but does happiness need to be crushed just because someone’s “take” on crossdressing differs markedly from others? I should explain…Quote:
Originally Posted by carhill2mn
Back in the day, I was crossdressing in a vacuum. I was happy. I’m STILL happy. Naturally, I was wondering if there were others like me – wouldn’t it be fun to meet other crossdressers and share some of this abundant joy one can feel through such simple means? Accordingly, I searched for other crossdressers – since they are largely hidden within society (those who emulate, I mean, and not those who imitate), it was a happy day when I discovered CD discussion forums like this one. I could finally “meet” other crossdressers! Once I joined, I started gushing like a newbie, hoping to FINALLY make a connection with my invisible peers…
I did, of course, but it took time. My initial forays into the CD community were awkward and unfulfilling. I began to wonder if anyone felt the same joy, the same magic, which I did each and every time I dress. The CD majority on these boards would either scoff at me or ignore me out of hand – who does she think SHE is, anyway? I got depressed. I felt lonely again. But, one day, a crossdresser did reach out to me, responding to a description of a pretty dress I saw. Apparently I was trolling and didn’t know it! My faith in beauty (and magic) thus restored, I kept posting, gradually finding the type of crossdressers I was looking for. Unfortunately, they come and go, while the ambivalent types hang on, either hurting or confusing newbies who deserve better. I know there are crossdressers out there who dress up because they LIKE to – it makes them happy, and they wish to share this blessed happiness that enriches their lives. Crossdressing can be very serious business, to be sure, but I’m just pleading for some room, or TOLERANCE, for those who crossdress to be happy. Can I get an AMEN, dear sisters?
I met a REALLY beautiful CD girl here nearly a year ago, but she has disappeared. We had a great time “talking” about the sheer joy of crossdressing. That was worth waiting for, but she is just a memory…
:sad:[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]Well spotted! For purposes of this discussion, as outlined in the OP, I decided to call myself a crossdresser rather than a transvestite – we’ve had enough discussion about the latter term, haven’t we? I have a waist-defining black belt in MtF crossdressing, which makes me a tranny…Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue
:battingeyelashes:[/SIZE]
Couldn't say it any better myself Jolene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolene Robertson
So, if it's ok with you, I'm going to use your words and put my hand up too
:)
Hi Freddy I am so sorry that you feel the way you do. I am Trans gendered. But would never ever say I am better or worse then any one else here. I as a human being have no rite to pass judgment on anyone else, and I don't .
I have been evolving since I joined a number of years ago. I look forward to reading your insights, and indeed feel privileged to read them.
I'm new here and was a little confused myself when I saw TG's were on here when the masthead says Crossdressers. I'm strictly a CD. I like playing the role of a woman when it suits me. I enjoy pretending to be a woman. I envy a certain type of woman and when I'm in the mood I can be kind of what I envy. I like being able to shift between genders in my head and with my outward appearence.
I sure don't claim to be of the mindset of TG's although I do have minor gender identity issues. Deep down I think all crossdressers do to a certain degree. I have taken many gender identity test. Some very scientific others not so much. I tend to fall in between or slightly more female than male. My physical features are not very masculine. I'm tall skinny and my facial features are not at all masculine.
You couldn't describe crossdressing any better. :)Quote:
... this abundant joy one can feel through such simple means.
:yt: Too right you can, Freddy - AMEN!Quote:
Crossdressing can be very serious business, to be sure, but I’m just pleading for some room, or TOLERANCE, for those who crossdress to be happy. Can I get an AMEN, dear sisters?
I don't think anyone is 'just' anything. Some of the nicest people I have met identify themselves as CD, I certainly don't think they are 'just' something.
I just think they are people who have found a balance in their life that works for them. And good on them.
As a nascent TS I think of you as my sisters and cousins. I will always have more in common with all of you than any others.
I'm a crossdresser. End of story. I don't find the term "transvestite" to be a "dirty word." I don't get the opportunity to dress often, and I'm fine with that. I'm not that great at it, either. I still love doing it, because it's a part of who I am, and as such, I wouldn't change a thing. I love being male, but there are times where I just want to be done up in head-to-toe in in as much feminine finery as possible (which is funny because my male side HATES to get dressed in anything but casual men's wear).
If who I am is a problem for some people on the board, well, they're free to put me on their "blocked" list. I have a bunch of friends here who check in on a regular basis, so I don't CARE if I'm "looked down upon" because I don't have to suffer the same feelings as those who are imprisoned by being born in the wrong gender (and I believe it truly is imprisonment). I look at us CDs as a separate area from those who are "truly" transgendered, and there's room for all of us! :)
Well said...simply agreeing with this comment almost negates my need to chime in on this thread! :heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by toni_62
I do like the idea of going out while dressed (though I've never done it yet) and I would say the above quote describes me fairly accurately.Quote:
Originally Posted by nvlady
I am a bisexual male who crossdresses. I would have to say that I am not just a crossdresser. I underdress below the waist about 90% of the time and about 20% of the time above the waist. In 10 years, I have gone out completely dressed once. Not saying that I am opposed to it, but it is difficult to get all of the circumstances to happen coincidently. However, I have never felt that I am in the wrong body. I consider myself to be male with some extra facets to my personality and psychological makeup. Although opinions are always subject to change, at this point I don't consider myself to be transgendered and I'm not looking to transitioning.
I wish I had time to read all of the responses. I'm pretty much a crossdresser that has progressed somewhat in the last couple of years. I've just bought a lot more clothes in that time period, because I've lived alone.
I don't have a posting style that challenges others to argue with me, so I haven't had any altercations with anyone so far. I think I have a small percentage of more than crossdressing within myself, but I don't have the urge to dress in public or anything.
Im still fairly new to this forum and so far have only found the good and not yet stumbled into the sh*te side of peoples nastinessQuote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
Think Eryn's view here sums my feelings up in a nutshell
I am not JUST a crossdresser. Oh, I am a crossdresser, but I am not JUST a crossdresser. Would you say that you are SIMPLY a crossdresser or ONLY a crossdresser? That is how the word JUST is being used on this thread. It is not easy being a crossdresser. Let us not diminish ourselves.
Damn!!!
I had a whole bunch of labels on my lap just now
One of my kittens jumped on me and knocked them all on the floor
I've picked them up and it looks like I'm now a 2lb bag of carrots
Oh well, best get on with it
Dee - I don't think I like your tone lady :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee3
I think by your definition I'm just a crossdresser. But why do we need labels? We each are somewhere along the gender continuum? I love to do really macho activities but I also like to wear dresses and get facials, even in guy mode.
Frederique, I usually don't agree with you, but this post has some true merit. Thanks for posting.
P.S. Who is this guy Pablo? Is he just a crossdresser? Just kidding. But did he only produce a certain type of art? Did he ever stray? This is why labels cuase issues but most of us want to use labels for clarity in many things we do.
Is this not what happens when beauty becomes an overly additive pink fog? I seem to see all around not just here. Competition abounds everywhere. There are one's that really struggle though, and any support we provide or receive is always appreciated in the realm of crossdressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
Thera
Time will tell, but for now I'm rooting for being just a bi/gay crossdresser.
Let's all just be friends and hug cute spiders.
:)
I meant to say I haven't had any alterations with anyone. If I could try on one of your skirts, an alteration may be in order :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EllieOPKS
Like some others, I dislike that "just a crossdresser" terminology. I am surprised you're using it, because we as people are much to complext to be defined by a single word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
Yes, you crossdress. But crossdressing is what you DO. It's more akin to a symptom of something else.Quote:
I’m a male that likes to wear women’s (or girl’s) clothing – that makes me a crossdresser, specifically a MtF crossdresser.
Now hold on here, you seem to be confusing the term transgendered with transsexual. While there are some TS's out there who use transgendered when they mean TS for various reasons (we call that frame drag on a another board). transsexual is a subset of transgendered. In many, but not all cases, so is crossdressing. Just because you don't have the desire to transition, doesn't mean you aren't transgendered for have transgendered thoughts.Quote:
I have no desire to be a woman, and I have no desire to live my life AS a woman, 24/7, in lieu of SRS. Calling me transgendered is like calling Pablo Picasso a surrealistLet me tell you, I get confused when transgendered individuals say I’m transgendered just because I crossdress...
Oh that's pretty much par for the course since people DO change how they identify. It's like the classic joke: "What's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual...about 3 years"Quote:
It was never clear who was who,
Oh that's also pretty much standard, though some boards do crack down on pecking order stuff. It's also evident in actual support groups, to a certain extent, which is one reason why it's on the Internet as well. Now I'm not for certain if you were ever a member of a support group, but from your writing, odds are you hadn't encountered it or read about it before.Quote:
but there were times when it became obvious that “plain old” MtF crossdressers were far down on the pecking order...
Probably for the same reasons I have done so. You can be quite naive about trans-issues, and some of us can tell that in some ways you have some self-hatred about it...your overuse of the word "perversion" for example, but that's probably regional/cultural. Can't be helped really.Quote:
I would write about crossdressing, and TG’s would “dress me down” in no uncertain terms.
No, but one might say you don't really get the realities of the transgender community, either online or off.Quote:
Was I blind?
Why would that be a bad thing? Or are you saying TG's when you really mean TS's?Quote:
I now realize I was amongst a preponderance of TG’s, so this is why I felt isolated within my own sub-genre of gender exploration.
if they don't like you, why are YOU ignoring THEM. Do you not like what they write? Isn't that closer to the truth? You write something, they disagree, you only want to see things that agree with your own trans-mindset so you block them? Is that really all that productive or a good thing overall?Quote:
So, here I am, a few years later, and there are several transgendered individuals on my ignore list who either don’t like ME, don’t like what I represent, or don’t like what I write.
In other words you're saying "I want to write without anyone challenging my viewpoint! I only want to see what I agree with!" Isn't that it? Because Crossdressers ARE a part of the transgender community, where you think so or not, because most crossdressers DO identify as being transgendered in some way or another. Now sure, most don't want to transition, but as I said, that doesn't mean they're not transgendered. There are "degrees" to it.Quote:
If this is supposed to be a discussion forum for crossdressers (see above), shouldn’t we (somehow) be allowed to discuss our crossdressing without incursions from the transgendered “community?”
While the former are "technically" crossdresers, they are more akin to what used to be called "transvestic fetishists" Yes, they are different...for one they don't join support groups, and tend to not do so online either. We have a few here who are obviously focused on specific garments like pantyhose or leotards (in fact their usernames often focus on their specific kind of crossdressing), they are easily outnumbered by crossdressers that do acknowledge a transgender basis for their crossdressing. Putting it bluntly the former have less angst...they put on the leotards or pantyhose, get their jollies, take them off and they're fine. It's why so few of them join support groups, they don't need them, they do their thing and enjoy it. They have no need to express their thing outside their bedrooms.Quote:
I’ve written a lot about this, mainly because I can’t help but notice it – there is a BIG difference between a male who dresses as a woman for tactile or sexual reasons, and a transgendered person who may be way more serious about what they do.
As we both know, crossdressers who do identify as being part of the transgender umbrella, they have different needs. We both know that the vast majority of crossdressers on this board who go out in public are transgender identified. As I said, that doesn't mean they want to transition, but their mindset is different. they go out, join support groups and whatnot. Even their fashion concerns are different., they're the ones that talk about blending.
It happens. Ive seen it happen the other way too, like what you're doing yourself in this thread now, but that's rarer.Quote:
Some of the latter “dump” on the former to a certain degree...
I think you're mixing up the meanings of transgendered and transsexual again. Transgendered is an umbrella term that applys to lots of people...including crossdressersQuote:
I’ve seen it, time and time again, in this very MtF crossdressing section. If you crossdress, you MUST be transgendered, or on the road to being transgendered, or transgendered without knowing it.
That depends on motivation...that's the important thing.Quote:
To others, the act of crossdressing makes you transgendered.
Define "let down the community" for me. While I think that crossdressers could do a touch more to support the community, I also know why they don't. Though it's a vicsous circleQuote:
Apparently I, the MtF crossdresser, have certain obligations to fulfill – I cannot let down the "community," even though the community looks down on me.
Sure you can, people do it all the time.Quote:
I can’t just dress to please myself, stay within my zone of safety, and live in a fantasy world of my own making;
Now hold on there, I don't recall many people saying "must" I do know some, including myself, who say that it's a "good idea" and that transgendered folks tend to feel better when they do so and stop feeling so "cooped up in the closet", but the ultimate decision is up to you.Quote:
I MUST get out there and put myself in harm’s way like a true TG, come what may.
I think non-fetishists who use the term "hobby" for their crossdressing are being disingenuous and are trying to minimize saying how much it means to them. Putting model ships in glass bottles is a hobby, "This thing of ours" is tied too closely to identity for most of us to be a mere "hobby". For the fetishists, it's more akin to a "sexual hobby" which isn't a bad thing.Quote:
Like I said, there are many TG people on my ignore list, specifically the ones who scoff at “hobbyists” or part-timers like us.
Are you a panty fetishist? Do you identify as such? If you do, don't you think you should change your name to something like "sexaypnatywearer" and change your avatar to a lower torso of a woman wearing a thong panty or something? What do you wear, really? You seem to have implied that it's not just panties and is more akin to the "young girl in tights and maryjanes" sort of thing.Quote:
Many times I’ve written something for US, namely the glorified panty fetishists,
Lots of people have opinions, that doesn't mean that they're "smart" opinoins, or well informed opinions or based on factually accurate information.Quote:
and it will generate a condescending post like this: “Frédérique is entitled to her opinion...”
where did you get the opinion that this is "just" a CD site? Didn't you notice the transition-centric sections? or even the FTM sections? Or the section just for SO's? You should know that taking things literally can be a bad thing on the internet.Quote:
but isn’t it queer that I, a crossdresser through and through, has to be defended on a CD site?
But why do you get the feeling? I don't understand, you crossdress (even if you don't identify as transgendered), you have friends here, why wouldn't you belong?Quote:
I get the feeling I don’t belong here, but what else is new?
Of course you do...but that doesn't mean that you won't have your ideas and philosophies challenged at times, or that people will agree with you 100% of the time.Quote:
I feel like, just maybe, I am entitled and justified to be on a site like this.
Well of course you're connecting with some people. From what I see, a certain kind of girly CDs who are apprehensive about going out and thinks they never will because of where they live/their wife/family/job/etc are your biggest fans.Quote:
As it is, I still have to fit my CD opinions in edge-wise and hope I’m connecting SOMEWHERE.
But if you can't see those comments, how do you know that's what they're doing. You're "assuming", and that's a bad thing. They could be actually agreeing with you on some of your points and you wouldn't know it.Quote:
Alas, many of my threads are peppered with comments I cannot see, let alone read, because someone who looks down on me is taking the time to do just that...
There's an Eleanor Roosevelt quote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." In other words, you are making yourself feel inferior.Quote:
Based on past experiences, I feel inferior.
If you mean Anne, say so, don't beat around the bush.Quote:
MY very BEST friend is transgendered, or she is convinced she is, or others tell her she is.
Less than she was, I think.Quote:
Subsequently, she is confused.
I think you are, but perhaps not intentionally and more on a subconscious level.Quote:
PS – I’m NOT trying to stir the pot,
Veronica
If only it was that simple No not just crossdressing may have started that way, the journey is long and constantly evolving. The spectrum of our community is huge and diverse. We are all together in this journey and at different stages.
This post is always going to be controversial. We are all sisters on lifes journey so please don't rock the boat
Freddie, you continue to post the most amazing, thought provoking things! I love it. I am a bit like Anne in that I started here as a plain and simple crossdresser (although I had started shaving bits of my body), but then as all the conversations unfolded and I reflected and soul-searched, I realised that I am ME. I am not category defined by other people to suit some form of labelling. I have days/weeks when I wish to God I was a woman, and I have the same when I am glad I am not. This is why I wish i could pass... I'd like to be both please!
I often think... if I lived my life again and had been born a girl, would this have been better? Then I think of all the stuff I've done and the friends I've made and my three wonderful daughters, etc.. and I can't trade that in just because I would like to experience being a woman. So what the hell am I?
I guess I am sort of transgendered, but not prepared to transition (well not just yet) for lots of reasons, not least of which I do not want to go through all that pain, suffering and financial deficit to discover I'd got it wrong! So I am well down the pecking order on the spectrum and in the box labelled CDs as far as our self-styled 'superior' sisters are concerned (I guess they must DivaDs :))... I don't care what they think, I am ME... and that is OK by me!
we hope that's not the NAUGHTY bits. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
in a word---COMPLEX
Its a good post........very flambe' LOL......its interesting !!!
But why do we want division in such a diverse spectrum, that includes EVERYONE our journeys are personal and unique, and the spectrum is vast with thousands of different flavours, sure be proud of who you are be unique !!!........there are many colours to the rainbow. Whether you wear just panties, or dress everyday, whether your going through full transformation, whether your hetro, bi-sexual, or gay.......We all dress up, and want to look feel female to differing degrees.
I started Cross Dressing many years ago......I have evolved, and changed, I am more advanced now. I dont actually need to dress up to feel female........its a very diverse community. We all need a network we all need support
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebeccarabbit
I think the problem with the Spectrum analogy is that wherever an individual is perceived to be along it the darn thing shoots off at so many different tangents on a 360degree orbit that no two individuals are ever going to be in the same place
We are all unique and should just enjoy being ourselves and accept the whole colour pallette for what it is...beautiful.
[SIZE="2"]I was NOT generalizing about all TG individuals – the OP was in regards to those who are, shall we say, unimpressed by fetishistic crossdressing, or crossdressing for tactile sensation, or crossdressing for relaxation, or crossdressing for sexual release. I suppose that if you’ve definitely gone over to the other side (in terms of gender), it stands to reason that you may feel like lobbing some debilitating wordy epithets back in the direction from whence you came. Some people – I repeat SOME people – seem to have this “I’m miserable – how DARE you have fun crossdressing!” attitude. They actually take the time to pop the little children’s joyful balloons, steal their candy, and act all important as some sort of established standard for how MtF crossdressing OUGHT to be. The message appears to be, “How can you expect to be taken seriously...” if you are not on the road to a transgendered existence. All I’m saying is that there is plenty of room for ALL approaches to crossdressing, MtF variety, and I find that this perpetual rubric from the wet blankets among us is very unhelpful, to say the least...Quote:
Originally Posted by Karinsamantha
I can only report on what I see, i.e. what I read around here. It’s a fact that SOME TG individuals (and CD'ers as well) seem to delight in deflating hopes and dreams, or ruining the party that COULD be happening. BTW, “just a crossdresser” refers to someone who crossdresses (MtF, in this instance), and isn’t going anywhere with it, i.e. isn’t interested in burning bridges, because that eventuality simply isn’t in the cards, for one reason or another. You CAN dress for pleasure, and it IS a valid form of crossdressing. “Now I’m here, now I’m there...,” as Freddy Mercury once sang. Remember singing?[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]I do plenty of transitioning, but it’s back and forth, as the word “crossing” may indicate. As such I am at the bottom of the pecking order for MtF crossdressers. I never knew I was until I came here. Thanks, discussion forums! However, there are many kind, considerate, and compassionate “superior” sisters around here, and they have gently put their unseen arms around me, lifting me up as I endure the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune – since few people come right out and state “I’m THIS or THAT...” I am left to believe that our own community of people (who wear the “wrong” clothes) is, by necessity, a curious reality, an impossible probability, an ephemeral gathering of the faithful, a moveable feast, and an inexplicable human drama. When I DON’T walk out the front door as a proud TG individual, and declare my deviant nature to the world at large, I anger some in our community even as I align myself with others who believe in the power (and magic) of crossdressing. I DO care what others think, but if I don’t preserve ME at all costs I will lose the world – crossdressing is a selfish enterprise, to be sure, so I get a little miffed when someone tries to shake someone else’s foundation. You need to do what you can, under the circumstances, find your own comfort level, and live life accordingly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
PS -- I'm AMAZED at all the responses so far... :eek: [/SIZE]
It troubles me that anyone in an open discussion forum would make significant use of such an "ignore" feature, especially in your case where you take such care in crafting thoughtful threads that provoke responses, mostly positive but sometimes critical. It doesn't seem to make much sense by covering your eyes and ears, singing "la la la" as if other points of view neither exist nor are valid in your eyes. What kind of discussion is that???Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
Don't worry Veronica, your posts won't be seen and thus the points you agreed with are moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit
Again, disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
You clearly haven't seen all of them. :sad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
As for the original premise, you have put out there a "just crossdressers" angle with overt exclusion of other POV's which does nothing more than drive a wedge between those who are "just crossdressers" (your words, not mine) and others in the TG community. As such, the entire premise is nothing more than divisive and provocative, hiding behind a cloak claiming otherwise. By being exclusionary of other points of view, a thread which started out being rather legitimate ends up becoming quite the opposite.
If I'm not currently on your ignore list, I expect to be moving back in shortly. Whatever, but I will not return that favor. I actually enjoy reading other POV's.
One reason for using the "Ignore" function would be, not to exclude other points of view, but to exclude personal attacks, which, sadly, are a feature of most forums. I don't use "Ignore" myself, but I can understand why some people might.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara Jessica
Annabelle
A nice morning discussion as I'm having breakfast and watching Le Tour de France :)
Frederique is someone I maybe disagree with more than I agree with. I enjoy getting her opinion because there is thought put into it. I can enjoy and like a reasoned argument, even if I don't agree. Freddie, you are an intellectual gunslinger...same as me ;) And the one thing about gunslingers is -- they get shot at and sometimes get shot.
Like you I am a male than loves presenting at time as a woman. I love how I look in a pant suit or a shirt...or a feminine running outfit. I like feeling pretty in a way I can in male form.
Like you, I have no desire to transition at all. I like me as I am, and my feminine persona is a part of that too long denied to be open.
Here is where I disagree. I don't have the problem with being seen as "transgendered". Everybody's thought and personal definition of that term is different. Among my friends who are transitioning, their reasoning is that, "You by the act of crossdressing are actively probing, challenging and redefining the gender lines in our society and perhaps even question them-- thus you are 'transgendered'."Quote:
Calling me transgendered is like calling Pablo Picasso a surrealist – to other surrealists he is (or was) one, at one time, depending on how you look at it, but he didn’t think of himself in those terms. Confused? Let me tell you, I get confused when transgendered individuals say I’m transgendered just because I crossdress...
Its a line of reasoning that I agree with. Thus, I'll take that "label" and run with it.
Now here is where I strongly disagree. Yes, there are plenty of transgendered people who may "look down" on me for example because I am not taking the road they are, thus I am seen as at best a "fake" and at worse "an enemy". It is a rash set of judgments. They are wrong in my case. But it is their right to be wrong.Quote:
Apparently I, the MtF crossdresser, have certain obligations to fulfill – I cannot let down the "community," even though the community looks down on me. I can’t just dress to please myself, stay within my zone of safety, and live in a fantasy world of my own making; I MUST get out there and put myself in harm’s way like a true TG, come what may. If I don't, I’m not to be taken seriously, no matter how well I can plead my case for fairness...
However Frederique, you also counter with a rash set of judgements. And two sets of rash judgments never yield reasoned clarity.
Most people in the "community" I've found don't look down on you. Maybe it is my naiveté, but I've been blessed to have found a very positive community of people across the spectrum who have been supportive and ready to educate me about the many things I don't know. I have built a network of people who are in my life beyond a level of just acquaintance. It is only right that I learn what their deal is. They'd respect if I stayed in the safe haven, but the question I ask is "would I respect me if I did?"
I read this and I am I reminded of a phrase that is a key philosophy in my life -- You have to approach people where they are, not where you'd like them to be.Quote:
Like I said, there are many TG people on my ignore list, specifically the ones who scoff at “hobbyists” or part-timers like us. I don’t need this kind of abuse,
.
That's both sides of the ledger. Most likely you've run into people who categorize themselves has TG or TS, and/or have significantly transitioned, or gone fully toward a gender change or achieved it. Their negative response was born of attitudes they've come across and experiences they've had. Largely they've dealt with a majority that has been non-supportive. Thus, that particular person or people may spit "hobbyist" at you. There are others who will try to place themselves "above" because of their status.
Because I've had more positive experiences and are surrounded by a positive teaching group of folks, I have the mechanism to effective deal with that sort of situation. I usually just ignore that person. Because they don't know me, and they aren't giving me to opportunity to their know them. I'd rather concentrate more on the people are being embracing, positive and inclusive.
It is never about what you are called. It's about what you answer to. Somebody with the intellectual firepower and the ability to express it should never feel "inferior".Quote:
I feel inferior.
In fact, you are part and parcel of what our society needs when it comes to this issue and so many others.
Never apologize for stirring the pot. It's necessary to make the meal.
Flaming: Also known as bashing. A hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming statements often include the pronoun, "You". They also include criticism of a person's method of communication.
I've just deleted and edited a dozen or so posts in the last page of this thread. If you have a personal comment to address to someone that does not directly relate to the topic at hand (the definition of crossdresser vs. transgender), please do so via PM. If I need to edit more flaming comments, this thread will be closed.
Honestly, I think there's sometimes a reactionary elitist thing that can go on for the CD vs TG thing.
And, it's neither's fault, as it's not gotten to the point where people in general society 'get' the difference between a fetishistic CD versus a transgendered person; something that people get a kick from versus someone's gender identity. So, for the transgendered person, a CD sort of brings down their legitimacy, and so, of course, there's going to be distance and defense. And, for the semi-innocent CD, that ends up being elitism to them.
I do think that if CD's associated more with the fetish crowd (PVC, leather, etc), exclusively used "crossdresser"; instead of "transvestite" or the umbrella "tranny" ;and transgendered people associated with their associated gender and made it clear that they were a transgendered woman or a transgendered man, it would make things far more well understood to the world at large, getting rid of the problem you're posting about. But, that's all theory versus reality. Can't we all just get along? ;)
But, anyway, I am closeted transgendered, as I've posted many times before. I don't get my rocks off on female clothes. In fact, I almost never dress. And, I'm not a crossdresser, at all. But, I do think you deserve to be able to live your life as you please.
Giving Frédérique a BIG :bh::wave2::)
I agree with Sophie can feel it inside and mentally there is no longer a need to dress up
Words to live by! If you see the word "you" occuring in a post you're composing you should think carefully before clicking your Post button!Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
"You" is like dynamite. It's powerful and can be used either for good or evil.
Discussion of ideas is good, criticism of each other is bad.