Transgender for me
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Transgender for me
Ooh, yes.....tricky one.
Well I don't usually volunteer this information, but at times there is a strong sexual element to my dressing (says she in her French maid's uniform - see avatar). There are also times that it's all about gender expression. Sometimes I truly want to feel like a woman and there is nothing "weird" going on in my head about wanting to be this way. However, other times I have to admit that dressing seems like a "forbidden fruit" and that I shouldn't be doing it and somehow this makes it more exciting.
Anyway, my point is that the poll (unfortunately) doesn't or couldn't include enough categories to cover the entire spectrum.
Marla GG,
Nice post! People are complex, aren't they?! Yes, categorising whole sections of society can be heavy-handed and insensitive to the the true range of cultural diversity that surrounds us, but I don't believe this poll was intended to be divisive, or offend, or to alienate anyone (surely not here, on this forum of all places?).
It's only human to try and rationalise our own and others behaviour. Putting ourselves and others into pigeon-hole categories is just an easy way of doing that; a sort of social short-hand that means we can avoid having to think too much when there are other pressing demands needing our attention. At worst that can lead to lazy stereotyping, which can carry negative connotations fuelled by ignorance and a willful lack of understanding. I challenge anyone to honestly claim they never make these snap-judgements about people we meet everyday, and put labels on them, sometimes good, sometimes bad, without getting to know them, often simply based on how someone looks? Labels can be wrong.
But the flip side is that it's also human to want to 'belong', to find others with whom one can identify and empathise. If it wasn't for this human tendency to stick labels on vast groups of society, I would never have found this forum on a Google search. Thank god I have! Sometimes those labels can be used as a rallying cry, such as 'Gay Pride', and used for positive action. Labels can be good.
As for the sexual element, I guess any Freudian would say sexual angst drives all behaviour. I think that's since been debunked, and probably says more about Freud than society. For some here, there's no doubt or shame in feeling their behaviour is purely motivated by a sexual thrill whilst en femme. We're all important human beings with a valid reason to be here. The sexual thrill may also apply to those who identify with another category (or none, or don't know), but perhaps it isn't the reason why they CD, or are TG or TS. You see, the old-school Freudian psychologists would have us all pegged here as being motivated in our CD, TG or TS behaviour by some sexual angst, probably as a result of a childhood trauma. We just know that isn't true, don't we? So maybe in the backlash against this, the support organisations you refer to have gone to the other extreme, particularly now there's more known to day about genetics and theories about hormonal impacts on a developing foetus that may affect our behaviour.
It appears you and most of the people on here have got a more sophisticated understanding, probably because you are so close to the issue and actually care about it.
I'm a Crossdresser! Tried and true. I love being a Man. I also like dressing as a woman and trying to in every way look and act during that time like a passable woman. I love dressing enfemme.
Would I be anything else if I could be? Prolly not! I would like to have breast surgery to make my Breast larger. But only with the a doctor that has done loads of them. I'd also like to win the lottery. LOLOLOLOL
Haley:)
This was an easy one for me. Transsexual. Getting closer and closer as time goes on. :)
Crossdresser: You enjoy dressing fully as a woman but are happy with your life as a male. BUT I have a feminine being inside that LOVE'S to dress up all the time and my wife allways tell me that i should of been a GIRL so this is my change to be a GIRL (part time) I love dressing as a woman and trying to do everything as a female way look and act during that time like a woman. I love geting all dresed up trying new things dressing . But I still keep the man inside of me for all the other time
Marla, thanks for posting that. It's a simple question that comes to my mind here: If sexy lingerie didn't excite men, why would companies even manufacture and sell it in the first place? If pretty clothing on women didn't turn a man's head and arouse him, why would feminine clothing have evolved the way it did? Whether man or woman, the clothes we wear is designed to attract and in many cases, arouse the other sex. Is it any wonder that a man who finds women especially arousing when she's wearing a lace ensemble and stockings/heels, etc. would not get equally aroused if he were to wear these things himself? The same goes for pretty skirts and dresses, etc. Sure, absolutely there is a factor of expression of the feminine parts of our natures here. But I, for one, have always found crossdressing to be rather arousing as well. I won't deny it. After all, many of us have claimed to have put the shame involved here back in the drawer, and we haven't come to this point by living in denial.
There is a sexual aspect to it that goes way beyond the simple "fetish" category. I dress to "be" a woman. But I also find it arousing to do so. And I'm willing to bet that women who totally accept this behavior in their husbands do so as well. Just a guess.
Marla, you rock. Every time you post here, you have something relevant to say. Keep it coming.
An interesting poll, Julie, although there are always people who read way too much into this sort of thing (not mentioning any names ;)).
I am sure Julie is fully aware as all of us are that we are all individual and cannot be 100% pidgeonholed. However, for the sake of intellectual interest and broad statistics it can be interesting to form some rough categories. Having read many of Julie's other posts I am quite sure she does not think that the whole spectrum can be boiled down into the above list - that would be tantamount to saying that Harry Benjamin Scale was an accurate reflection of the transgender phenomenon, which although a semi-useful guide is also patently a huge oversimplification! :)
What I find truly fascinating is how people can shift along the spectrum. Personally for example, I definitely used to get sexual kicks from a little crossdressing (ie. Julie's fetishistic category) when I was in my early teens, but it moved from there towards more just the wanting to be in full female attire, then died out almost completely once I realised that there was no way I would ever pass. More recently, the desire to be female has become utterly overpowering and I am now a full-steam-ahead transsexual who plans to transition as fast as safely possible ie. start to finish, including FFS and GRS, within a year.
Kate.
Hi,
I think I'm probably in the first category "Transvestic Fetish" but, depending on your definition of fully dressed may be in the second category "Crossdresser". "When you say Fully dressed as a woman" does that include wigs and makeup? When I dress I wear lingerie skirt and top or dress, stockings or tights and boots but no wig and no makeup. I'm not against it but it does seem like a lot of hassle for me (can't cope with having hair again). Also, no femme name. I'm quite happy to be Mark whether dressed or not.
I'm not keen on the word Transvestite. It sounds like something you get if you don't wash your hands. Crossdresser is a much nicer word and is really justan English translation of the Greek word Transvestite. I don't mind the fetish part at all. I'm pretty sure that's what it is with me and am quite happy with it. I always use the word crossdresser but my reason for crossdressing is fetishistic.
I'm going to vote in category 1 as us fetishistic crossdressers seem to be lagging a bit in the poll but I definetely think a lot of the category 2 description applies to me too.
What do you think?
Mark.
Not necessarily. I started aged 2 or 3, just mucking around wearing a pair of my mum's panties and I noticed that the tactile sensations were arousing, even at that age. I also got caught by my mum and made to feel like sh*t, hence the 30 years of guilt and self-loathing that I've been through. Maybe I was precocious, but I can remember the confusion, thinking "How can it be wrong when it feels so nice?"Quote:
Originally Posted by tammycd
Soz folks, gone off topic, but that sorta opened up a wound. By the way, great post from Marla, I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:
Way to go Marla! I agree the categories just reinforce stereotypes about "nasty" fetishitic TVs and "noble" CDs and TGs (and TSs) whose dressing have nothing, nothing to do sex. Sorry folks, but the available evidence is that there's a far messier picture. I mostly dress to go out these days, but I still enjoy dressing for pleasure at times. Likewise, I know some full-time TGs (and who may transition) who love hanging out at fetish events. And I doubt the autogynephilia wouldn't have touched such a nerve if people weren't afraid there was a bit of truth in it.
(Without getting into the merits of theory, it's worth noting that Blanchard formulated it as a way to expand the behavior that was "acceptable" for SRS candidates who were routinely denied SRS if they acknowledged any sexual feelings related to their TGism.)
So as Marla said, let's acknowledge that is sometimes is sexual for a number of us. The problem isn't the sexuality, the problem arises when people cheat on their spouses, engage in unsex behaviors, etc.
Hi Darla (and everyone else!),
Yep, cheating is despicable when otherwise pretending to be faithful to a partner. Anyway, I'm still hooked on the 'category' debate...
In the UK 'transgender' or 'TG' tends to be used as an all inclusive term that covers/celebrates every point on the gender spectrum, from extreme masculine to extreme feminine behaviour, regardless of ones apparent birth sex. Is that meaning the same in the US, or for that matter the world over?
Perhaps the problem is that it's OK to voluntarily acquire a social label (hundreds have in this poll), but personally offensive if anyone else tries to force a label on you that you do not identify with, or may even find derogatory?
Language may be imperfect, but we should acknowledge the need to develop some sort of lexicon of terminology to explain and understand the way we feel. The trouble is that traditionally this terminology has been developed by psychologists, doctors, academics and politicians (the establishment/outsiders, I suppose like Blanchard). In this age of the 'global village' and mass communication it is now possible for us (the people!) to organise and discuss what we think and believe as a world community, like never before. We now have the power to take control of how this terminology is used, we can redefine it, and we can evolve it how we want.
I'd like to click one of the buttons, but I can't. The descriptions are too narrow to define how I feel about myself. I guess, however, I must be a cross between number one and two.
I don't like the terminology, but Transvestic Fetish would be the best description of me. I'm not super macho, I'm not femme, I'm just a guy who gets turned on by articles of women's clothing. But unlike many fetishists, I don't like any of the kinky stuff (leather, fishnets, thongs, heels, makeup, wigs, etc). I just like the regular normal stuff, and only when it is worn by a real woman or by me.
Labels... yuck!
I fit none of them you have listed and neither does about 90% of the people here. What this poll is doing is a form of sterotyping people and that is not the best solution here. I will not pretend I know the first two things because I don't. Society on the other hand could not label me in those groups either.
I was born a mix of XY and XX, intersex, hermathodite, both male and female. I was assigned male at birth and raised as a boy. I started exhibiting classical crossdressing at an early age (about 5) and knew at about 8 I was a girl. I currently am undergoing the initial parts gender reassignment which actually works in my case, although the term transexual does not. I am not fliping or going to the opposite sex (definition of trans) because I am genetically both sexes. I am not really changing sex either, I am choosing one over the other in a dual that has me as a 12 year old pre pubrital child at 23 years of age making a grown up decision.
So lets see
I am a transgendered transexual intersexed crossdresser who is genetically a hermathodite, male assigned, auto(whatever the word was), assexual, unable to produce any of the essential hormones that makes us male or female.
No I am a girl, screw the labels!
In todays world it is becoming harder and harder to define. The only label I go with is transperson, it eliminates everything else and lets me be ME. There is no other reason to put us in a box anyway.
Sexual feelings is another story!
Mandy
I find it easiest to consider myself transgendered. It's why I dress in varied ways, whether it's full blown girl or just some items. I don't dress for erotic reasons, but I do feel sexy when dressed. I think women are sexy. I sometimes wish I could be a woman, but I'd never transition as I know it would never work. I've 50 years of being a man, it would not work.
A friend sent me some pictures ... guy likin' ones ... and I just felt this powerful longing to be that woman. It comes and goes. I sometimes feel bad because I think I may be trying to be something I can never be. Yeah, reincarnation is the ticket. Until then, it's just be me and don't beat myself up about it, about what I think and feel.
And I too give kudos to MarlaGG for her post! Sex IS a powerful component of human nature!
I waffle between 2 and 3.
Hi Marla,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marla GG
Thank you for your response to this thread was very eloquently written and which reflects many of my views. :bravo2:
While I tend to the Crossdresser 'label' (yuk), there are times when I feel aroused when en femme but I'm not particularly bothered whether its the clothes etc that cause it or whether it is just me feeling sexy and horny.
Certainly my wife is aware that there are times when the erotic takes priority and she is more that happy to indulge me.
Oh my! This is so difficult for me to place myself. I'm a 1.. or is that a 2.... or maybe I'm a 3. There are aspects ofall of these for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie
D: all the above
kymmie
I openly consider myself as a CD. I am hetero and enjoy being with women and have no desires to transition. I also adore the femme side of myself, the inner woman, and enjoy being "Lauren." There is something that is part of us, as CD's that allow us to reach in and allow the woman in all of us out, even if it is for a short period of time. As such, I yearn to wear the clothing that society typically associates with GG's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie
Using the term, 'transgender', to me, encompasses both CD's and TS's. Why? Because both transcend or cross the boundries of what is considered as 'normal gender.' And gender is based upon what is between the ears, not the legs.
With that said, I feel that CD's are truly transgendered, as are TS's. Only TS's desire to go further and have their sex changed by surgery and hormone therapy.
Lauren
TGMarla, You have best answered how I could answer this poll. I would say that I started many years ago with the fetish angle being most prevelant. As the years roll by I am inclined to place myself into #2-3. My life requires me to be male for my family and I would not want that to change. Though I want to be a woman at times for me! I dress more provacativly than my wife ever would at times, probably because she doesn't! Yes, it does turn me on. Lately, I find I dress much more conservativly and this is just as pleasing to me as when I dress for "fetish". I guess this moves me down the list from a 1 to a 2 or 3.
Somewhere between 1 and 2. I rarely dress fully, but I am always in pantyhose.
On another recent thread, I stated that I don't know for sure if I would have ever crossdressed if it weren't for hosiery. Skirts and panties and high heels are nice, but without pantyhose, I don't know if I ever would have started or continued dressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathy J
Same here.
Aloha,
I also agree, good question, however the answers for most of us seems to be more complicated than the options given. Perhaps a poll on this subject is too limiting.
Anyway dears, count me in as loving to dress and act en femme, but very happy as a male. For me, being bi-sexual (what am I if I love liaisons with other "girls) also plays a big part in my preferences, or lack thereof.
I do hope we all find our little niche in this world to call our own! Nothing worse than being lost in a sea of humanity alone.
definitely transsexual...i hate being a man...but because of familial responsibilites, i must live as a man, even tho i would much rather live as a woman. i have always known i was a girl/woman from a very early age...i hope that i have paid my dues in this life and will be a total woman in my next life..sigh.
Very much transgendered. I wish I could be in drab one day a week and Charlene the rest of the week. I'm really only truly happy and relaxed when I'm in my feminine role. This feeling as progressed over the years, I've been dressing for over thirty years now. Most male interests bore the hell out of me, as do most males. Only you girls are the exception. The shrink I went to two years ago told me I had gender dysforia, but she didn't tell me much about the symptoms.
I voted "transgender", but when I stop to think about it, I'm not really sure exactly where I fall. I started out in the "transvestic fetish" category 20 years ago. The fetish aspect has since disappeared, but those feelings started the process of awakening suppressed feelings within me regarding dissatisfaction with being male. Since then I have "climbed the ladder" through crossdressing and transgender, and lately have started to wonder for the first time whether I should transition. I simply don't know if I have further feelings that are being suppressed. I intend to start seeing a counsellor about it as soon as I can afford to.
I love feeling like a woman and I love dressing as well butthere is a strong desire to be female and that doesn't always mean being with men! I love women! I adore women! I enjoy lovemaking with women! I especially love when a woman likes me dressed and we share banter and thoughts as women do when together. It's tough but that's the way it really is for me!
When I really think of what I would be comfortable with in a perfect world I would have to say this. I would always dress as a woman because that is how I feel most comfortable. I would definately get breast implants but keep my buddy down below. He does have some crazy friends but he's been very loyal and still hangs out with those two nuts he grew up with!: I guess I would love to be something not on the list, a she-male. That's just me. The best of both worlds but it really cuts down on the dating pool! Where are all you bisexual women when I need you!:) Big Hugs.
Love
Jeannie
i am definately a crossdresser who loves the feeling of wearing womens clothes and dressing up.
danielle d
Somewhere between 1 and 2. There's definitely always an element of sexual arousal/gratification, but I enjoy the feeling of being femme and occasionally wear a wig/makeup/full feminine attire also. I could never pass, even on a dark night from a half-mile away, but the picture of "Cheri" in my mind is entirely different from what I project externally.
Julie,
When very young, I didn't know who or what I was, although I knew something wasn't right. When I got a little older, I was afraid of who or what I was, because I realized what others would think. During my early adult years, I tried to deny who and what I was, out of fear that I couldn't live it. Now, having been through nearly 5 decades, I am finally free to face the fact that I am a transsexual. I should have been born a girl.
Love,
SilkenPrincess
A lot of very interesting posts on a topic many of us have considered in private. Marla GG's was excellent.
But I think a couple have hit on part of the problem...semantics.
Transgender vs transsexual may not be all that clear. As someone alluded to, gender is not the same as sex. "Gender is in your head, and sex is in your crotch" may be a bit too simplistic, but it leads to a bit of clarification.
Who I am does not necessarily indicate who I wish to have sexual relations with. The key may be whether we are looking internaly at ourselves. Or, externally, at how we relate to others.
Transgendered suggests that someone considers themselves to be gendered differently than they are biologically constructed.
Transsexual suggests that someone relates to others in a manner that is different from how they are situated socially by definition of their biological construction.
All of this conversation is, of course, hampered by generations of suppression of any discussion of sexuality at all. And now comes the 21st century where we can not only find out that there are others like us, and actually comunicate with them fearlessly, but we can participate in defining ourselves. I can not think of another time in liguistic history where a marginalized group has been able to participate in the in vitro definig of itself. As opposed to sitting back and letting the academic, psychological, or sociolgical communities do the defining.
So, for those of you who are still trying to define yourselves, I would suggest you consider the two factors separately. Who you are, gender-wise, vs. who you wish to relate to sexually.
And then it gets a little more complicated when you take into consideration that much of what we humans find sexually exciting is sociolgically taught to us during our developmental years. At the same time as we are being taught what external trappings define gender.
If I learn that a bra, for example, is sexually stimulating and that it is generally associated with women, where do I stand when I also learn that wearing a bra myself is sexually stimulating?
This has gotten a lot longer than I anticipated, sorry.
As for me? I fall into the apparent minority of #1. I'm just an aging overweight white guy, who loves the look and feel of the silky and feminine. And chooses to excersize that affection by myself, separate from, and in addition to, my female relationships. I'll never pass. But I don't need to. When I look in the mirror, I can ignore the parts that don't work and enjoy the look and feel of what does.
Good luck every one.
I voted transgendered. I'd say i'm transgendered/borderline transexual.
I don't feel like I should have been born a woman in the classic transexual sense. It's a more of a conscious choice of me just wanting to be a woman. But due to physique, family issues, and my own reluctance to share my thoughts with a professional therapist, I see myself being stuck as a crossdresser for the time being.
Luckily those are all things I can work on, so who knows where i'll be in a few years, or even a few months.
Difficult one mainly due to a difference in language accross the Atlantic.
If you read Helen Boyd's book she drops the term Fetish when refering to Transvestites though fully acknowleges the sexual element- something that challenges so many CDs who'd prefer that part be kept quiet. The word fetish as got connotations (see Julie York's elequent assesment, I hjave to say that's how I felt when I saw the poll so heb not voted)
For me? I'm a Transvestite, I dress fully as a woman, I want to do so as much as I can and I'm not interested in only the clothes, I need the lot- hair, make-up, jewelery and when my courage is eventually in place to go out and be ignored.
I feel more alive dressed. I don't really get a sexual kick anymore, as I used to but I won't deny the potential is there, but it isn't the prime motivator.
In the UK the term Crossdresser is very rarely used, it stems from TriESS (which doesn't exist over here) and Virginia Price who wasn't too keen on Transvestite as a word and spent a lot of time trying to come up with a "less clinical" word. Not to mention denying the possiblity that Trannies or CDrs coule ever be gay or progress to transition.
So lables are hard, the English langage is tricky and the differences between sisters across the water can cause even more confusion!!
Fiona
xx
Glamsexual. If I'm going to be put in a box by anyone then it'll be a box of my own creation.
I would have to say transgender simply because of the fact that while I do dress androgynous quite often when I go out other than for work I do still see the need to have the male side of me around. Not only for my wife and family but because of my career and the fact that computer business owners are still predominantly male in todays society and business owners seem to feel more comfortable with a male working on their computers than a female for some reason.
Thought I do admit there are a growing number of women in the field which makes me happy.
anna
:rant: Extremely Transgendered and socially unaccepted.
I would say transgender, because, although I like being male, I would also enjoy and see myself as being female too. I dub it being bigender, as I really see myself as sort of a bit of both.
And the labels are sort of unofficial though because according to my local LGBT center at UC Davis:
"The Minnesota Human Rights Act defines transgender individuals as "having or being perceived as having a self-image or identity not traditionally associated with one's biological maleness or femaleness". The identity of a transgender person differs from their physical sex as assigned at birth and there is no definitive answer as to what causes one to be born this way. Transgender is a broad term which includes pre-operative and post-operative transsexuals; transgenderists (persons living full-time in a gender opposite their birth sex with no desire to pursue surgery); transvestites or cross-dressers, and those whose gender expressions occasionally differs from their birth sex. The largest subgroup of transgender persons are heterosexual men who engage in occasional crossdressing."
Marla,Quote:
Originally Posted by Marla GG
When I posted this I was recalling as best as I could the definitions of each as they were explained to me by an experienced and very well read gender therapist. I suppose it would have been better to have said something like 'attracted to' rather than defining it in a sexual aspect. I was just trying to state it as closely as possible how it was told to me. I apologize if I offended anyone.
I wouldn't apologise Julie, as I don't believe you've offended anyone with this poll, but raised some thought provoking discussion.
Over the weeks it has highlighted a dichotomy many people feel: that on the one hand we cling to our individuality and rebel against conforming to a 'label', yet also feel the need to belong and identify with others. Why else would any of us have joined this forum?
Like so many have answered, I would say "crossdresser." I wonder what it would be like to be female, but I wouldn't trade off forever. Too much of my life and identity are male, there is just another facet that needs to get out!
I describe myself as transgendered - simply because it is a broader, more generic, label.
In the past I have labelled myself as 'transsexual' and then 'non transitioning transsexual' - but the general community interpretation of those labels is more about what you are doing about it and your lifestyle than how you feel.
Fiona xx
Julie, to suit the parameters of four choices I had to go for Transgender though I've never thought of myself as that.
I can and do live as a woman in my little cottage in suburbia but the hard world has to be faced so I am a bloke out there.
What drew me to this forum topic though was the "..Classify Yourself.." and I was dying to answer simply "Tall, slim, poised raven haired beauty". Oh well. :) ;)
Julia, thanks for clarifying. I don't doubt that the therapist you cited probably did use those categories -- it's a case where the labels, even those used by professionals, don't adequately reflect reality.
In part it's because people on the TG spectrum haven't been completely honest about sexuality. Unfortunately, TSs learn to deny any sexual overtones in order to get past the gatekeepers to SRS (who've deemed this as something that disqualified candidates). Likewise, Tri-Ess and other CD groups went a bit overboard in their bid for respectability and denied that sexuality can be a part of crossdressing for some at some times, even if they're otherwise "good girls."
Guess I'd also have to go with transvestic fetish. My crossdressing which usually involves full slips, chiffon layered nighties or panties but can involve almost any kind of lingerie is almost always aimed at sexual satisfaction. I do however love the generally feminine feeling I get from wearing these things and usually spend quite a bit of time just wearing and prancing around in front of the mirror before "manual stimulation" takes over.
This is my first post by the way, I really love this site and look forward to sharing more with you all.
Not trying to sound "cool" or anything, I just havent really ever classified myself... on the occasions I've tried, I always end up saying I am "such and such" then adding "BUT.... "
I think I'm just me, and I strive to be whoever I am to the best of my ability.
XX
Jayme.
Ps.. Is Transvestic really a word ??
Crossdresser for sure as i have to maintain my male self for work and such. Tiffany only comes out when i want her to come out. She comes out sometimes when i want to relax and unwind. Wearing a pretty dress or gown is something i cant be without when iam dressed as Tiffany
This is such a tough one and actually one I was working on before I found this site. I have been writing an autobio to try and put this in perspective. I started when I was 3 (well sort of) Kimberley has always been there and to be totally honest I THINK I had to learn my male traits. Kimberley was pushed down for decades and finally she started kicking and screaming to be listened to. It took a near breakdown for that to happen but I found a fantastic counsellor who helped us to get along with one another.
My pdoc hasnt really delved into this whole gender issue...yet! At any rate her initial opinion is CD but as I said, she doesnt have all the facts, emotions and opinions of both of us (Kimberley and me). We will get there soon enough and maybe I will get some answers.
What all of us know is that we live in a very gray world and in my opinion I think labeling does none of us any justice. Are we not reinforcing the opinions of the public at large by labeling ourselves instead of saying "Hi I am ..." and later when we are comfortable, "Let me introduce you to Kimberley?" Hmmm.