Sorry, not me. Though I'm leaning towards transition, I'm still a heterosexual male.
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Sorry, not me. Though I'm leaning towards transition, I'm still a heterosexual male.
Interesting post, as for me, I am more bi-sexual meaning i like men, but I also have more lesbian tendancies when fully in my femme mode around other gg/tg/ts/cd's. But i also agree that as long as we have our male parts we cannot be considered lesbian. Veronnie2
First, it isn't horrid, many here have or will do exactly that. And yes, in many instances the TG community DOES offend the mainstream L&G community because we are so wishy washy and non-supportive of Gay an Lesbian rights. We also like the perks as in this case where you WANT to be a lesbian and yet, tomorrow you will be a guy who can go about your daily tasks as a guy and not have to suffer the insults and prejudice of being a lesbian You can pretend to be a pilot, but that does not make you a pilot. You can pretend to be a race car driver but that does not make you a racecar driver. You can pretend to be President of the US and if you demand to be called that you will be locked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
Ah, thanks for clearing that up, I have so many women friends who don't realize it is just a state of mind. Now one question, when you make love to your wife, do you keep you male bits away from her? If you allow her to do anything with them, then you are a male not a lesbian. If you use your male part to penetrate, you are a heterosexual maleQuote:
Obviously I am not technically a lesbian since I have and thoroughly enjoy my male anatomy - as does my lovely wife. Like I have said many times, for me lesbianism is a state of mind
I will remember that when you say you are not gay later. And yes you do offend lesbians when you flippantly say you are one when you have no idea what lesbians go through. You would not say you are of a certain race because you wanted to identify with them. Let me put it this way, one day I was commiserating with an Afro-American friend. Whatever he was saying I said "I know how you feel." he became very indignant and reminded me I would NEVER know how he felt. You, sir, are not a lesbian.Quote:
Lorileah dear, I am not a straight male and I don't offend the lesbians I know because I don't hit on them or deceive them.
You started the thread and asked the original question, if you didn't want want the answer you should not ask the questionQuote:
Can't we just be at peace? Yes I enjoy getting dressed pretty and making love as a lesbian. Peace, Stephanie G
In this case, I think it would be perfectly accurate for you to say that you enjoy fantasizing about being a lesbian. No one can argue with your fantasies. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
Dear Lorileah,
My wife does indeed enjoy my "bits" - a term that seems strangely rude to me. Whatever I say you seem to relish mocking it. Really you did not need to waste words telling me about pilot, race car driver, and presidential fantasies. I thought this forum was for cross dressers to share ideas and support each other, not to belittle honest posts. Almost all the replies I received were supportive and friendly. Many seemed to share or at least relate to my lesbian identity. Many replies also suggested that as long as I have my male parts, I cannot be a true lesbian. I'm OK with that. I just love the joy of my lesbian fantasies that I share with my wife. Why does that seem to offend you so much? My wife and I are very very happy together. We love our gardens, our golden retrievers, our walks in the wood, and our children. We derive an amazing amount of satisfaction from our lesbian love making.
I see that you have made 6777 posts. Hopefully most of your posts have been more positive and warm that the ones you made relating to me.
Hopefully your life makes you as happy and fulfilled as mine does.
By the way we are very close friends with the few lesbians and gays that live in our rural area.
Really I wish you peace. Stephanie G
:yt:Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Someone here once said "just because you put frosting on your head, it doesn't make you a cupcake", It is flippant to say you are something when in reality you are not.
So by your definition Lorileah men who have sex with Buck Angel are straight because Buck Angel was born with female genitalia and has not had SRS ?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/...ed187efe15.jpg
That would be correct. Just because he looks male, if there is penetrative sex (vaginal) it would be straight. Appearances aside. If Buck Angel has not changed his gender marker it would be straight sex. Unless you know a way to get around that. If you do, then same sex marriages will become a lot easier. Does Buck consider himself gay?Quote:
Originally Posted by max
When I thought I was TS, yes, because I didn't know any better, as I thought I was really female, but was only sexually turned on by females. That changed as I learned more about why I feel like I'm supposed to be a girl. Now, I'm just a straight guy, who's attracted to girls, while feeling like I'm supposed to be one, all at the same time.
I'll weigh in on an opinion here.Quote:
Originally Posted by max
Buckangel falls outside of the norms for genetic females, given there is only a small percentage of the overall population that is trans. Buckangel knew at an early age that he was a guy and he has transitioned as far as medical science will allow, given that penectomies are nowhere near as well perfected as vaginoplasties. Buckangel falls outside of what most people think of, when they think "lesbian".
Do we spend hours debating the exceptions at the ends of the population bell curve, just to make a point? Words like lesbian and homosexual describe cis-females and cis-males respectively, in addition to describing their same-sex attraction. As far as I know, people had no clue about transsexuality when these words became widely used in the maintream.
If we want to be sticklers, we could form new words to describe someone who HAS transitioned, and who is attracted to people who are same-chromosome, and opposite-chromosome, once we stop debating about whether we "technically" describe their genders based on gender identity or chromosomes. But if we do this, then we'd have to form new words for each variation of intersex too, wouldn't we (XXY, XYY, etc), since intersex cannot be described as purely male XY or female XX? But honestly, who cares? It's a lot easier to say that Buckangel falls outside of any common labels.
Besides ... there is no comparison between Buckangel and the OP's wife. :p
You are quite the labelmaker! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I feel the same way my attraction is to women
I'm going to get in trouble for this, but just google the phrase "cotton ceiling," and maybe we can all see how absurd this discussion id. Pretty much most of this thread wreaks of male privilege.
Yes I do. I have long considered myself a lesbian, in a loving relationship with my beautiful and supportive wife. In the bedroom. she knows I like being a girl, and I dress either in lingerie or wear a nightie most nights. We play, role play, and she is happy to make me feel so feminine, touching me in my girlie places and making me feel good. I can't imagine a relationship with a guy. Just so happy to feel like, and be treated like, a girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
Yvonne, Thank you dear for your post. I love it and it certainly sounds like we're soul sisters. If I didn't live across the ocean from you (in Missouri) I'd love for my wife and I to met you and your lady. Let's be friends. Peace, Stephanie G
Yes please Stephanie :-) xQuote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
O.K., rather than be vague about it all, perhaps you'd like to explain what exactly you're talking about instead of sending everyone else on searches? Or is being vague your way of trying to be more feminine? My ex used to excel at hinting about stuff but never really getting to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraAbsent
Googling "cotton ceiling" clarifies it, but it refers to some lesbians who refuse to accept a transwoman's claim that she is is a woman, in other words, the transwoman hits a ceiling where she will never be accepted as a woman in these lesbians' eyes. It's not much different than the way the rest of society sees transwomen, if they know about the transition (hence the need to move away and go stealth). They think of them as men who transitioned rather than genetic women, at least according to accounts by our own post-op TSs here.Quote:
Originally Posted by sometimes_miss
What you're saying here makes sense to me, Reine. I think when you throw "trans" or "intersex" into the mix, it changes things. The only sort of relationship I could see myself having right now would be with a transguy. So perhaps I'm "trans-hetero" and "cis-asexual"? It can get a bit difficult, but I'm clear in my mind at this point about what I'm interested in and what I'm not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Annabelle
I think it's just simpler to say that you're a transwoman who is attracted to transmen, if you want people to get your meaning without you having to get into long, involved explanations. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse
On this forum you're right. Among your average cispeople, though, it would still be gobbledy-gook. The lengths you have to go to to explain TGism to them, and even then some of them don't cop on. But really can you blame them?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
"I confuse people. Therefore I'm profound." Or at least that's what I try to tell myself sometimes.
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse
Now that's funny.
.......yeah, I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
My high school sweetheart (two proms, senior & junior years , baby!)
She has a girlfriend she lives and romances with now, and had I know how to figure myself out back then, I would have certainly figured a way to accommodate.......but that was many years ago, and so much water under the bridge.
Oops, I stand to be corrected. "Homosexual" technically does refer to everyone regardless of gender, while "gay" and "lesbian" have been adopted to differentiate between the genders. Although, many people do substitute "homosexual" for "gay" (as I apparently did :p).Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleduSud
I should have been more precise with my explanation, but my point was that the OP is not lesbian.
Does not wanting to be with another man count? Because I don't like men.
that is mysandry but that thread died almost a year agoQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeannie
Sorry, but if your ex does not want to transition, maybe s/he is not transsexual? Why is that being candy @ss? It's true that I don't know him or your situation, but don't you think it's a good idea to respect where people are at rather than try to make them conform to your agenda? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Lynn72
This holds true for everyone: GGs who want their SOs to transition, GGs who do not want their husbands to be CDers, and M2F CDers who want their hetero GG SOs to be sexually attracted to them as women.
If you're not attracted to men or to gender nonconformists though, I can see why your relationship didn't work, just as I understand why a relationship between a late-onset MtF TS and a hetero GG wouldn't work.
This is interesting, I always looked at myself as a girl. So whenever I was out dressed and someone asked if I was gay, my answer was, do you mean do I dress like this to attract guys? Then I would answer that I liked girls, so I must be a lesbian; which always got strange looks.:battingeyelashes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Oh Steph, so true. And geeze girl, Thank You for your sweet words. You make me blush. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
I'm so glad for your happy relationship with your wife. She seems to possess a very caring & compassionate spirit. And she must be quite a deep thinker to be able to grasp and appreciate the critical distinction between yourself vis-a-vis your lesbianism vs the vast majority of other M2F transgenderd girls.
I'm always receptive to meeting other transy lezzie's. I know many think it's an excuse or conceit; a form of self deception or even a pretext for 'same sex' fun. Oh so nah-ah. And oh so refreshing to speak with someone like youself who knows how this is simply not the case. EGO reputo effeminatus, proinde EGO sum. :battingeyelashes:
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If all this discussion is based upon what someone "thinks" about themselves, and it must be because the genetic discussion as far as GLBT is concerned must be a discussion of the mind, then labels don't really matter, do they. After all, a simple genetic test, regardless of how your are plumbed or re-plumbed will determine the gender you were born with and the gender you will die with.
Your sexual preference, based upon your genetic makeup, determines which label can "accurately" be applied.
Remember, I think therefore I am. . .I am what? Who the hell knows.
You couldn't be more wrong about this. A genetic test will tell you what SEX you were born with. That is completely different to what GENDER you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaraPeterson
I was born with male sex organs so I was wrongly classified as male. I have a female brain, so no matter how much I tried to convince myself that I could make it through life pretending that my gender matched my natal sex, I failed completely. My statement about my brain is scientifically provable, but unfortunately requires my brain to be removed from my body - so I decline to furnish you with the proof at present.
In the past, people who agreed with your statement tried to force transsexuals to conform via the use of things like electro-shock therapy. It didn't change the fact that their gender and natal sex were in opposition, it merely taught the TS that they would be harmed with society's blessing for telling the truth.
Some religious fanatics believe that they can "cure" transsexuals, the same religious fanatics often believe that they can "cure" homosexuals. They are wrong on both counts. In general the only thing that they achieve is to drive the TS person into suicidal depression.
Hi,
No matter what is said here, each person will belive what they wont to. regardless of facts or tests or how our bodys are put together, not includeing those of us out side what was thought of as normal., those of us who are different, are just that different,
...noeleena...
It takes more than that, I'm afraid. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Annaliese2010
:facepalm: Nothing like using a broad brush that has the wrong color of paint on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annaliese2010
and in response to it...
Does that sound a bit like there may be some interest in "being with"? Hmmm...two TG's...still a "male lesbian?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
:yt:Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Puto ego sum cupcake, ergo sum a cupcake. I still cannot fathom the flippancy that is still happening here. Accuracy in language must have died with Latin
I suppose that fortunate for me I'm bi. So when I'm dressed I think that makes me = L + G + B + T! I like that! Elfin
I'm one of these lol i loveee women especially my wife.
When I am fully dressed, I am soo much into being a woman, I spend hours and hours primping and preparing until I look just right. I am happy to say that the result of all this that I am quite passable. Am I attracted to other women? Yes most definitely and I would truly love to find one who could willingly accept me for what I am. On the other side of the equation, I sometimes find myself attracted to men and often fantasize about what it would be like to be with one when I am deep into my feminine side. I guess I would say (for right now) that I am probably bi. As my journey continues and I get more bold, I know that I want to try both worlds.
A very interesting discussion. For me the answer is very much YES. Sarah/I has always identified as being a lesbian, she loves GG woman (and everything about them), and other TGLadies as well. When I have been intimate with a woman and/or other TWoman, I do try to approach it from the lesbian perspective and my partners mostly have told me they enjoyed not having an overly aggressive male partner.
Intimacy aside, my lady friends tell me they enjoy being able to interact with me as a male, but one who can lend them a sympathetic ear to their conversations, and who (being a male) will offer them the advice coming from a mans perspective, but delivered to them as a girlfriend would. They are constanlty supprised that I have a deep knowledge base about being female / feminine. Something so many men are uncomfortable in discussing or even wanting to engage in conversations about with their wives or so's. When dressed and out and about I always try to present myslef (either dressy or casual) with the personal of a lesbian professional business woman.
Yay. We've succeeded in adding "lesbian" to the already-long list of words we can't agree on defining, like crossdresser, transvestite, transgender, etc.
As long as "words mean what I say they mean", this is unlikely to change.
Clinton started it (it depends on what the definition of "is" is). haha
What exactly does your obviously male legs, awkwardly spraddled have to do with this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Annaliese2010
Always I think of myself as a lesbian... the clothes help me to keep alive this wonderful dream of me!where ever i can I'm fully dressed with hair and make-up and Beautiful Sexy dresses like a Pretty Feminine Lesbian would do it
I would define "lesbian" as a woman who is attracted to another woman. The problem lies in defining "woman." I accept any transwoman, whether pre-op, post-op, or non-op, as a woman, and I would have no problem with accepting her as a lesbian if she were attracted to women and not men. "Woman," in my opinion, is more of a mental and spiritual thing than it is a physical thing. Transwomen are only women who are dealing with a certain set of problems which most women do not have to face. All of this is only my opinion, which may very well be wrong, and is certainly not intended to offend anyone.
Do I identify as a lesbian? No, I identify as bisexual, though usually with a preference for women. Again, for me this can mean GGs or transwomen. The parts don't matter as much as what's inside. In any case, I would second the opinion of those who have expressed that we shouldn't focus on labels. As a wise cartoon sailor once said, I yam what I yam.
Well, when I am dressed as a man, I am attracted to women. When I am dressed as a woman, I am attracted to women. If I ever had an opportunity to to do a full crossdressing transformation (on my bucket list), I would still be attracted only to women. But does that make me a lesbian? Who lnows? However, to the best that I could imagine myself as a woman complete with the right parts, even so, right now, I would have to say that I would still be attracted to women. So, I guess I am a hetero male and as least a bi female, and probably a gay female.
Set course for 35 Degrees for one hour, then set course for 215 degrees for one hour - and we will get there
After this thread came out, I decided to go to the source, so to speak, and ask two close friends who live as a lesbian couple if I was a lesbian when dressed en femme. The answer was, no.
They did not consider me completely hetro, however, so I guess I'm as confused as ever. Oh, well.:D
I am a lesbian but my wife isn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie G
Maria
I have said many times that I am male lesbian. And I've said I'm the only lesbian in our household. To that, my wife gets upset.
I said the same thing time and time again. I have always adored the female body and their sexy clothes, and even wear them when I can. I just can't see myself fully with a guy but rather with the ladies. They are better.