Proud but not loud?

Well Missus, you have really made me think - as have all of you who have replied to the OP. If I am going out en femme, I don't dress to be noticed. I try to dress to be elegant, but not to fade into the background. As a female (even a pretend one) I like to be noticed when I'm looking and feeling good. Any compliments will be gratefully received.

Sometimes I "pass", sometimes I do not. Neither really matters to me. What I know is that when I do go out en femme, I feel comfortable, natural, I AM Amanda. I delight in being able to interact with women without the almost inevitable gender tension that happens in many male/female interactions.

Now see what you have done Missus? I'm going to have to think about this a bit more. I'd like to add that I think of you as a great asset to this forum. Stay with us!

Well I think you're all an asset to me as I never thought of this the way many here described, either. :)

In my situation my H is like NicoleScott and dresses for a thrill so if he did go out it would be to get noticed. Thing is, he doesn't feel a strong drive to do this but given its so common I know I need to be prepared should this happen.

I think the comments about validation and being 'seen', while not necessarily interacting, resonates with me as all humans like to be acknowledged and I guess those with a female gender tucked inside them, this side of you also wants to be seen? I guess she's got attitude like most of us girls, lol. Do you worry this side of you could destroy the male side while in public? Is discovery a concern or would it actually be a relief?

For those without the 'girl inside' am I right in my understanding of what's written here that if you do go out, it's usually to go ALL out and dress to the nines and have fun and be noticed? This also makes sense to me and I know this is what my H would want if he ever went out. He wouldn't want to be recognized (hell no) but he'd want to look like some sexy girl twenty years his junior, lol.

Funny thing is, for those with a female identity (or part identity), many of you talk of the feelings you get when out, the change in attitude you have, the women you chat to, how life seems different and perhaps even better? As a GG I look at the men around me, and how most don't spend their days dodging lewd stares or worrying if they're fat or thin or whatever and think they must have a great life. Men seem far less complicated. In fact, I rarely think what it's like to be a girl because I am one, but I wouldn't say it's what is described here.

I'm actually a little jealous. I think you all have more fun as women than we women do! x

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Originally Posted by TheMissus

As an actual GG I look at the men around me, and how most don't spend their days dodging lewd stares or worrying if they're fat or thin or whatever and think they must have a great life. Men seem far less complicated. In fact, as a GG I rarely think what it's like to be a girl because I am one, but I wouldn't say it's what is described here.

I'm actually a little jealous. I think you all have more fun as women than we women do! x

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While our male lives are simpler, that doesn't make them better. Think of the experience as the difference between color tv and b+w. The nuances in emotional expression and friendships and even yes in clothing choices are limited. Women's close.friends generally share things on a level that men don't. And while we don't get treated as sex objects there is the problem of other men being hostile or competative. Some guys are always looking for a fight!

We do have the.advantage of picking and chosing when to live female. So we generally pick dancing, shopping, partying, and enjoying food and good company. And believe me, I can relate to the lewd stares and feeling threatened at night!

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Originally Posted by Sally24

Think of the experience as the difference between color tv and b+w.

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What a BRILLIANT analogy ... Consider it plagiarised! ... I'm going to use that one a lot

D xx

Sally24, my H hints at the same - I have access to technicolor while he's stuck with grey. This is very subjective, in my mind. Many women see men as holding the color. Just look back sixty years and you'll find women downing Prozac as they live out their dull grey housewife lives. We always want what we can't have and plenty of girls want what you all have and I guess we're trying to get that power, money, independence etc for ourselves. Personally I would take these notoriously male benefits over being pretty any day. I've had pretty all my life and it's a bloody curse.

But I guess being pretty is part of why you go out. I feel sad actually, that men aren't encouraged to feel pretty any more than I'm encouraged to feel powerful. But I would love to feel a power that didn't involve my boobs or butt. This kind of attention holds no weight and is soul destroying over time. I'd love to be Obama for a day. I'd love to be taken seriously.

Maybe I should go out as a man as someone suggested, lol. I might like it and understand this better!

You should at least try dressing as a man just as an experiment or an adventure of sorts.
Feel what its like to be labeled as a freak and a perv if you get "read" like we do sometimes.
In all seriousness being a man isn't all its cracked up to be.If you get pulled over by police you get the full treatment..... assumed guilty.I have been pulled over enfemme and given a pass and told to be more careful.
Feel the utter contempt from a female for smiling and saying hi to them or saying you look nice today.Always being viewed as only wanting ONE thing from a woman.
Sometimes it hurts so bad you feel as though you should have stayed in bed that day.

I do not go out in public. While it appears the majority of the time, most on here that do go out they basically get treated decently, especially by GG's. Still, there are plenty of times where people will stare, gawk, make rude comments or be rude when interacting in shops or restaurants. I personally do not want any part of any of this. That is just me. I hold no negativity to anyone who goes out and has to deal with society. More power to any of you actually.

For me to go out in public, and by public I don't mean to TG specific gatherings. The real deal, I would want to be 100% undetectable. If I tried hard enough (without any permanent modifications) I feel I would likely present well. But, not 100% undetectable. It would defeat my purpose for going out in public. That is how I view it today. In the future, I cannot say anything for certain, but that is how I feel about it today.

My CDing is about feeling relaxed and comfortable. To connect with my inner femininity. Going out in public, while perhaps connecting, would not be a relaxing comfortable experience for me. For those who do, and enjoy the experience, I say rock on.

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Originally Posted by gendermutt

My CDing is about feeling relaxed and comfortable. To connect with my inner femininity. Going out in public, while perhaps connecting, would not be a relaxing comfortable experience for me. For those who do, and enjoy the experience, I say rock on.

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This is exactly my feeling. I gave up a very long time ago trying to figure out why I wear women's clothing. I know I have matured over the fifty years of wearing women's clothing. I find being attired as a female to be very stress relieving. To venture out into the world emulating a female will not work well for me. I have the face and physical features of a man. Part of my routine while dressing at home is to avoid being close to a mirror. I look great gazing into the full length mirror from across a room. There is no point of reference for my height. I do not stand out in my kitchen or the backyard. Transport me to the street or a store. Life would be stressful, which would totally defeat the need to seek out stress relief.

I do not feel being a cross dresser is something to be proud of nor not proud of. Cross dressing is just a small part of who I am. There are things I do that others would pump up their chests and say "See what I did!" I do not need any validation for who I am from anyone. I consider my life to be a personal matter.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

You should at least try dressing as a man just as an experiment or an adventure of sorts.
Feel what its like to be labeled as a freak and a perv if you get "read" like we do.

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I'm fairly certain I'd get read. I dressed for a theatrical thing (Shakespeare, as always) many moons ago at my all girls school and looked ridiculous with a moustache and cap, lol. I'm not built masculine at all. It was fun though, but I doubt I'd take this look to shops etc. I totally understand those who don't, and I guess I now understand a little better why those who do keep a low profile yet still enjoy the experience.

I'd still be Obama for a day, but I'd need one of those magic buttons often talked of here in the 'if you could be turned into...for a day'. Then I'd get a true feel of being a powerful man and that would be interesting. x

My wife and have done what Tracii suggests - both crossdress. She can look like an Italian gangster or a wall street banker or a motorhead at Nascar. I love to hang on her arm. It has led to wonderful and highly amusing times for us both.

There's an important difference between being read, and being recognized. during a social interaction I am usually read as a man in a dress though not always - I have a distinctive deep voice that I cannot disguise. But I am not often recognized, that is identified, despite my distinctive voice. Once at a large downtown halloween party my wife and I chatted up our neighbor and landlord, we share a driveway so we see him often. He quickly read us both as crossdressed but could not recognize us as his next door neighbors. We have had many similar experiences over the years.

I don't want to be overly noticed when in male mode. Same goes for going out en femme.

Dressing up and staying home provides just limited experiences, both in quality and quantity. I just want to be able to go out and do things as Veronica. By exploring more outside, I can explore more inside. Yes, there is the excitement and thrill which (now that I think about it) comes largely from going unnoticed. It means I've succeeded in my goal of no longer just being a man in a dress (because that is NOT how Veronica feels) but rather, I am what I want to be at that moment: a woman in the world, doing her own thing. A woman who has every right to exist, along with everyone else.

If people don't normally give you a second look in drab but give you two or three looks (or worse) en femme, it means something is either very off or very on (but usually the former). That is why at home if I don't pass but feel feminine, it's fine, but when I go out I try my hardest to pass. I just want to be another woman (albeit in my case a tall foreign woman in Japan) riding the trains, going shopping, or whatever I feel like doing.

I do agree that dressing up and going out with no place to go is a bit pointless. It's like getting a haircut and shaving in male mode, then putting on a tuxedo to look good, and then walking around the block. Neighborhood strolls at night are a good way to build up courage, but... If I want to go out dressed as Veronica, I make a plan first.

To be honest, I'm normally a very shy person. I am quite introverted, and I avoid the spotlight whenever possible. Seems dumb to go out dressed up, right? If I don't present well, I'll be made, and then where will I be? Almost hell. But, going out (for me) spells freedom. It means I've overcome my fear of being made, as well as my fear of not allowing myself to be who I know I am. Even if I'm made, I've validated to myself that this is who I am.

I certainly do not want a handful of stares or chuckles (i.e., the negative) to dictate my life when there are so many positive things out there. When babies learn to walk, they inevitably fall down in their attempts to master the new skill. If I never ever go out, sure, I will be "safe" but it is worth falling down a few times (hopefully not literally) to be able to experience (as much as a GM can) what it feels like to be a woman, even if how I think women feel and how they actually feel might be different.

Sorry for the rather incoherent post. Hope the pieces makes sense.

Veronica

I read a few replies early on but there have been so many more since then. I'm going to take a shot at this without reading what I'm sure are a bunch of wonderful and well-stated thoughts on this good question (but I promise to go back and read them when I'm done).

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Originally Posted by TheMissus

So why not go out loud and proud and get noticed for what you are?

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Because life is much easier when you blend in with the crowd and still get noticed for what I am.

I don't suffer from delusions of passing. I do alright but I have 1000% expectation that I will be read by the Muggles as trans-whatever. Yet most of the time, I don't go out of my way to attract attention. I have cultivated a style I call "casual chic" and I think it often takes that second or third glance for them to get it. And when they do, I'm all good with it because there'd be too much stress otherwise. I go out to express my identity, my nature, my being. It is very important for my own sanity in navigating the path that I am on.

I recall reading somewhere in these pages about someone talking about "celebrity status" when she goes out (might have been one of the adorable Sacto girls but I'm not positive where I read it). Anyways, that's totally true. I have my SA's and MUA's who (seem to) genuinely enjoy when I come around. That in and of itself is a blast and when the Muggles want to play along and be nice, all the better.

This doesn't mean I'm not capable of over-dressing and rolling with the extra scrutiny that comes with that. About once a year, my friend Kim and I do what we call "overdressed Friday" where we purposely go out wearing looks that wouldn't be out of place on a woman who was at the office all day. It's our one time of the year to do so because otherwise, there are way too many casual, chic, cute & fun looks to play with for the other outings.

Being out & about may not be for everyone, gosh knows that's been debated way too much. But I'm here to say that I've been doing it for the better part of 20+ years (amazing because I'm only 29 :battingeyelashes:) and the "moments of being" are beyond compare.

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Originally Posted by TheMissus

Sally24, my H hints at the same - I have access to technicolor while he's stuck with grey. This is very subjective, in my mind. Many women see men as holding the color. Just look back sixty years and you'll find women downing Prozac as they live out their dull grey housewife lives. We always want what we can't have and plenty of girls want what you all have and I guess we're trying to get that power, money, independence etc for ourselves. Personally I would take these notoriously male benefits over being pretty any day. I've had pretty all my life and it's a bloody curse.

But I guess being pretty is part of why you go out. I feel sad actually, that men aren't encouraged to feel pretty any more than I'm encouraged to feel powerful. But I would love to feel a power that didn't involve my boobs or butt. This kind of attention holds no weight and is soul destroying over time. I'd love to be Obama for a day. I'd love to be taken seriously.

Maybe I should go out as a man as someone suggested, lol. I might like it and understand this better!

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This is changing. Awfully slowly, and hardly at all in some places. My GF won't put up with this, she certainly won't put up with it from me! I've always thought of myself as a feminist, but she has been educating me on my blind spots. I'm having less luck educating her on the female blind spots. And they are there. We are working out our relationship, and we are both trying to push these attitudes out into the wider world. We are fortunate that our employer believes in this, and has policies and education on it. Real ones, that are applied. There are a great collection of people we work with, including many women who are not shy about showing their abilities and strengths. More than a few are smarter than me, and some of them are strong enough to kick my butt!

As I said earlier, I have no fear being viewed sexually, but then, for me there is little to fear. I understand why you don't find it appealing, and I hate that you have to be so cautious, and can’t enjoy genuine, polite, male appreciation without those negatives intruding. The difficulty in gaining power in the workplace, and getting fair pay, is something that would drive me mad in your place.

What a great topic, Missus! I've also often wondered why bother going out if the aim is to not be noticed, for someone who is a CD.

My SO doesn't participate here but if you don't mind, I can answer based on our combined experiences.

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Originally Posted by TheMissus

I'm just trying to wrap my ahead around all this sleuth style blending that goes with it. Is it truly so terrible if people see you all as CD and not GGs? If it is terrible, I can't imagine taking the risk, that's all.

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At first and for a long time, my SO hated the thought of being read. It's as if a part of her feared being judged harshly and I suppose none of us enjoys being judged. But then over time my SO began to interact with others while she was out and obviously the minute there is human interaction, others know that my SO is not a GG. So my SO had to come to terms with the fact that even though she makes an effort to present as a woman, people who talk to her know that she isn't. I dare say that making this mental switch is hard for many CDers, who likely would not go out if they even suspected that most people read them (when there is interaction).

But as my SO made more and more friends as herself, she discovered that it didn't matter if people didn't take her as a GG. The importance is to be respected for who she is, even though most people cannot tell the difference between CD, TS, or Gender Non-Conforming.

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Originally Posted by TheMissus

The other thing I wondered is whether there's concern your male identity will be discovered?

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In my opinion anyone who knows a CDer well, will recognize them immediately when they see them dressed unless the makeup skills are at the professional level. Very few people have the ability to make themselves completely unrecognizable to the people who know them.

We are not out to a lot of people and so there is always the danger of running into someone. The hope is that we would see them first and my SO could avert her face and leave. But, we do go out in the next town over and we haven't yet run into anyone. And it's been years. :p

Just a thought, Missus. You DO have power that is completely unrelated to your boobs and your butt. You have the power to change lives, to make people think, to change attitudes just by doing what you do here / using your voice, and doing it well.

There ARE things about being a man that are great, but to tell you the truth, the competition with other males can be a bit wearing, not to mention the despair that one can feel when being regarded by many people as a potential pedophile. If a little kiddie falls over in the street, you would not dare to comfort him or her!

Being viewed as being only after sex is not a lot of fun either. Upsides and downsides, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

But as my SO made more and more friends as herself, she discovered that it didn't matter if people didn't take her as a GG. The importance is to be respected for who she is, even though most people cannot tell the difference between CD, TS, or Gender Non-Conforming.

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It is empowering to engage with people knowing but not caring that you will be identified as a male when you talk (if you weren't already). Interestingly and rewardingly, many GGs still treat me as a female in the type of conversation and mannerisms e.g. touching. I now strike up conversations with people who are often only too happy to chat.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

In my opinion anyone who knows a CDer well, will recognize them immediately when they see them dressed unless the makeup skills are at the professional level. Very few people have the ability to make themselves completely unrecognizable to the people who know them.

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I have had situations where I have past people I know well and not been recognised. Stupid I know but I tested it once by deliberately going past one person twice. Didn't recognise me. There are some good reasons though:

• most people don't look at you closely
• people are not expecting those they know to present as female
• the quality of make up does help disguise
• the body is reshaped by boobs, corseted waist and butt/hip padding - from apple to hourglass:)

So, so far so good out dressed a lot in a small city. I do practice mentally though not responding to my male name just in case.

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Originally Posted by Amanda M

Just a thought, Missus. You DO have power that is completely unrelated to your boobs and your butt. You have the power to change lives, to make people think, to change attitudes just by doing what you do here / using your voice, and doing it well.

There ARE things about being a man that are great, but to tell you the truth, the competition with other males can be a bit wearing, not to mention the despair that one can feel when being regarded by many people as a potential pedophile. If a little kiddie falls over in the street, you would not dare to comfort him or her!

Being viewed as being only after sex is not a lot of fun either. Upsides and downsides, I suppose.

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Amanda, I totally agree with you. I love children and I just adore little babies. But I dare not ever talk to a little child or talk baby talk to a little baby in a store or anywhere. But it is very different if I have my wife with me, there may have been only one time where I may have talked to a little child in a grocery buggy, and it's okay if the parents see that I am with my wife. I was standing outside a grocery store once while waiting on my wife to come out. A young family was tying the shoe of the about 8 year old daughter, their little 2 year old boy looked at me and said, "hey there" to me. I said hello back to him in very gentle voice. The father gently popped his behind and scolded him saying do not talk to strangers.

I was eating alone in a buffet eating 2 weeks ago. It had a good crowd. There was this little beautiful little one year old latino girl walking around and talking to other families eating. Of course she was just a bored little child that couldn't sit still while her parents and other siblings were still eating. She walked to different tables and everyone was smiling and talking to her. She was a real hit there. She then walked up to me and I just smiled at her, she smiled back at me, then suddenly the dad got up and lead her back to their table. He gave me a stern look as well. You see, it was okay to the dad as long as the little girl was talking to whole families about, but when it came to the lone man like me, it was different.
Also as men, when we are out, if we even make eye contact with another man, a lot of times, I can get a "what you lookin' at?" look.
As TraciG pointed out, if I just say hello or hi to a woman in public, she thinks I want to scr** her. As men, when getting pulled over by a cop and especially at night, the cop will be very rude with me, and will ask me a question. I will answer it as nicely as possible, and he will then ask me if I am being sarcastic? Then he cranks up his aggression. I got pulled over by a SCHP on my way back from Myrtle Beach. I was going faster than the posted limits. He got out of the car, reached in and grabbed me around my neck, yelling at the top of his lungs to get out of the car, GET OUT OF THE CAR, as I reached for the handle, he asked "WHAT ARE YOU REACHING FOR? as he put his other hand on his pistol. When he finally pulled me out of the car, he slammed me against my car, three very hard times, yelling at me and asking me do I think I was speeding or not. He wouldn't even let me speak. He had bruised me up pretty good by the time it was all over.
If I was a gg, life would be so much easier. Women have power.

The main reason I try to blend in is to avoid trouble. There are plenty of losers out there that would like to kick the you-know-what out of a guy just because he is wearing women's clothes. Hate crime laws won't stop some idiots and I am not dressed to defend myself.
I get read sometimes, usually by women. Sometimes they will compliment me on my shoes or something. I feel like it's more about telling me I am accepted than just the shoes.

I just like the clothes. If I could dress full time, I would. I don't have any other traits that society would consider female.

I was so scared of being seen for so long. I wouldn't go out dressed, so I had to decide between going out in male mode or staying home and dressing up. Getting dressed won out more times than not. I missed out on alot of social interaction. I really feel free when I get home from an outing as Sarah. It's about living my life as I want to.

If teenage boys can run around with the seat of their pants drooping to their knees, I'm not worth noticing anyway!

I don't go out in public to shock anyone. I do it for my own need. I feel alive, charged, ecstatic, happy. Blending in is the whole reason some of us dress up. No, I don't want attention. So why go out? I just can't stand being refined to the house. I love the breeze blowing on a flowy skirt. It's liberating. I only go to places quiet, low key. I do what works for me. Yeah, whats the point in dressing up then? Just quit or go full time. I do what I do for me, because I'm alive when I become Valerie. I don't mean to be a gender offender, but a gender bender yes. Who remembers the Transformers cartoon? It's from the 80's, my era. The song was "Transformers....Robots in disguise!" Someone murmurer "Transformers! Fagots in Disguise!" behind my back. So I try to pass, better than being a "gender f***". Google gender ****.

One more thing for me. I find it easier to shop for clothes when I am dressed. I don't have to worry that they might think they are for me. They KNOW their for me. It kind of reinforces the fact that it's not the worst thing in the world to be a crossdresser. If they care at all, they sure don't show it.

Regardless of how we feel about dressing in public, we must always consider the context in which we do this. There are places in which it is perfectly fine to be Out and recognized and there are other situations where it is much safer to blend in. We need to not forget that there is considerable evil in the world and much of it is directed at people who are outside of the norm.

Hi Missus,
I have been trying to find the time to reply on this thread for a few days now. Well, finally I have the opportunity. I have to say the whole thing about passing and blending, or the why even bother going out if you are just looking to hide yourself. There are a lot of common reasons us CD's can give which most are topical and not exactly articulated in a way that can paint a picture that anyone would understand and say OK I GET IT. As for myself, I spent many years in hiding behind closed doors without an outlet. Until I met my current wife, who I told very early on when we started dating, I can't say the thought really crossed my mind to get out because my dressing was very secretive and more of an arousal factor. My wife encouraged me to be comfortable with me, so I have become LOUD AND PROUD but I am not looking to be flamboyant about it. When the mirror and the makeup and the breast forms became part of the process for me all it took was the first time I revealed myself totally done up to my wife, her reaction was ( jaw dropped to the floor, mouth wide open ) She said Oh My God, If I didn't see you go into that room as you before this transformation, I would never know who you were. Certainly not my husband. You look beautiful! I was in shock, not because I didn't see or feel that with my own eyes, but it came from the one and only person in my life that could not only lift me up, but also cut me down. This was the start of something. I new I had to get out of the house.

I know if I am going out in public I can be passable. It does not matter to me if I am pegged, or if someone looks at me with that I'm not fooled look. Truth is I am oblivious, it is my wife that will notice those things. In a normal situation like shopping, going out for a bite I will be dressed casual, pretty much like any other woman might be dressed for a similar occasion so I am not drawing attention but I am blending, I am also passing to some extent until I open my mouth. Surprisingly that doesn't seem to matter much to anyone from my perception because in a situation like that I do not really look out of the ordinary. It is tolally different if I am attending a CD/TG event. Total Glam, 6'4" in heels, and trying to look like a runway model. Now that is not fooling anyone but I also know I am in a safe environment that even if I am looking to draw attention it is not going to draw confrontation or negative reactions.

So now the answer to the Why Bother. It makes me feel good, I freely express ME, I have my lovely wife by my side who walks proudly and unashamed with me, it is a rush, invigorating, and most of all. I feel my efforts at presenting are validating of ME regardless of any reaction that comes my way. I am also loud and proud and no one will ever know who I really am unless I told them.