I feel the same way which is why I also avoid labels.Quote:
Originally Posted by gendermutt
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I feel the same way which is why I also avoid labels.Quote:
Originally Posted by gendermutt
I don't think labels like gay or straight apply very well to many of us on the transgender spectrum.
Let's suppose one identifies at first as a CD, and is attracted to men. This person later transitions, but still likes men. She's now straight. (This may be eye opening since she may have spent little time in the straight world.) What really changed in all this? It is, after all the same people involved in the relationship.
Or consider my situation. I've always been attracted to women. I married two of them! Since I started transition, that would make me a lesbian. Except I'm attracted to men now, too. So I'm bisexual now, right? Except I'm not attracted to cisgender women, just trans. So what in the hell is that?
So for that reason, I simply use the term "queer" to describe myself. (And believe me, it applies to me.)
I think a lot of us have difficulty accepting that we aren't straight, exactly. I sure did. Heck, now I'd like to be a nice straight girl. But I am far from that.
I too have no interest in men when in drab! However when dressed very definitely am interested. I consider myself bi definitely!
Easy. Because we're trained to hate ourselves. So our minds have to use all kinds of mental tricks to avoid feeling bad about that, such as pretending that there's another personality there but that it's not really us. Which is, of course, bullsh!t.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildaboutheels
This phenomenon is just a perfect example of how our society infects our minds with hate, even to hate ourselves. It's simple. if you're attracted to men, and you are a man, that's homosexuality. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!! NOTHING! You don't have to try to distance yourself from it in your own mind by telling yourself that 'Well, it's only when I'm dressed up and pretending to be a girl, I'm not REALLY gay, I'm really just a normal man' or anything like that. It's part of your personality.
It's o.k. to be gay. Repeat that 100 times. It rhymes. Make it a chant, say it silently in your head if you're worried about how the rest of the world will think.
It's times like this that I get really, really pissed off at the religious groups that tell all their followers to raise all the children to hate other people just because they're different, including hating themselves such as like what we have with this type of situation. It sucks. And it really has to stop.
I wouldn't worry about it. The "bi when dressed" or more exactly "androphilia when dressed" fantasy is one of the most common emasculation fantasies that CDs have. I doubt that one in 100 ever go through with it in real life and few that do ever develop romantic feelings for the man. The man in these fantasies is essentially a living dildo. Is that gay? Who cares. It's just harmless fun as long as it doesn't negatively impact more important areas of your life.
It seems simple to me. If you have sex with only females your straight. If so with only men theen your gay.If you do with both then your bi.If you only think about men when your dressed its just a fantasy .Even if you try it a time or two and don't like and never do again i don't think that makes you gay or bi either .I know that Im bi because i've had sex with both occasionally over the years. I've never been with a man while dressed either. Im attracted to both weather im dressed or not.However i would like to while all dolled up sometime lol.
LilSissyStevie, I consider myself CD and what ur saying definitely applies to myself.
Making love to a girl, she is the object of attraction.
However, Ive been with a guy twice (as a girl). It was always about me, the guy was there just to allow his toy, I was my own object of attraction. Strange, narcisstic feeling, requiring a mirror :idontknow: So, I figure I might not be that bi how I thought, even though the fantasies continue and I may end up with a guy, no arguing about that. Im just not attracted to men themselves, but to the idea of me being with a man.
Also, Ive noticed that being dressed en femme around my girlfriend makes it kind of redundant (I recall someone from here who wrote something about crossdressing emulating the contact with a real girl in CDs brains :)
Final thought: **** labels.
If so, then you may be a squash.Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylFlint
Crossdressing often sets the fantasy gears in motion. When transforming into the image of woman, it's fun and exciting to imagine being a woman, even knowing better than to really believe it.
It takes both the desire and the act to define a person as a crossdresser. A one-time wearing a dress as a costume or a person who may want to dress but never did can't be called a crossdresser as we know it. Likewise, fantasizing doesn't make you gay or bi - it takes the desire and the act. The act doesn't require a sexual encounter, but at least a romantic or physical attraction.
You aren't defined by your thoughts, but by those thoughts put into action.
I have dabbled with both and if I found the right guy I could be happy in a relationship.
Its more about the person.
If your wearing a skirt on a constant basis then you are gay... Why would someone thinks hes straight who wears one? No ifs no buts but youre gay=)
In my mind, there isn't a connection between crossdressing & your sexuality. I'm attracted to men, whether I'm wearing a dress or sweatpants.Quote:
Originally Posted by LesliePinky
So to be brutally honest, I think that you're being a bit ignorant, Leslie. Many crossdressers consider themselves straight, so I don't really see how your point is valid in any way.
Now, regarding the actual topic, I think that it's different for everybody. You can crossdress and be completely straight, -gay or have your sexuality change when you adapt the role of the opposite sex.
(Pssst, come closer. I'll tell you a secret~ There really isn't that much more to it, since you make the calls when it comes to your sexuality. No-one else can determine it for you.) :)
First I want to say that I really love this thread, and the thought provoking discussion that we're able to have.
Society tells us that being anything other than straight and cis is a sin, and we often convince ourselves that we must conform to the rigid boxes society places us on. The reality is it is perfectly okay to be attracted to whoever you are attracted to, and society as a whole is becoming increasingly more accepting of diversity.Quote:
Originally Posted by bridget thronton
This probably depends on where you are. I would probably say that in most of Texas, Idaho, deep south, middle east, no, LGBT people face MAJOR discrimination, even the possibility of being murdered, in those states or countries. In San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York City, and in general major cities in the western world, I would say yes it is the best time ever to be LGBT. Much of our experiences we have in being out crossdressers or transsexuals will be affected by what part of the world we live in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
In spite of the fact that some parts of the world still need to play catch up, I would say that traditionally conservative individuals and groups are becoming more and more accepting of LGBT people.
1. Several years ago, during the whole prop 8 battle, lots of gays got married legally before prop 8 and it's ban on gay marriage was passed. I attended such a gay wedding, and it was in a conservative Jewish synagogue.
2. I have a transwoman friend who told me that when she attended her father's funeral in the Mormon church, that the Mormon minister of the church was not only accepting of her being trans, but also said that he hopes and believes someday that the Mormon church would be fully accepting of transgender people.
3. I came out to a very staunch, Tea Party, conservative Republican, who was totally cool with and supportive of me being trans.
Actually, there is a term called pansexual. I typed in pansexual definition into Google, and here is what I got.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
My understand of pansexual is it means that you are attracted to the person or to the soul, without regards or bias to the body or body parts.Quote:
not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity.
I know plenty of people in the trans community who identify as pansexual, and who feel that the pansexual orientation best describes themselves and other trans people. Sometimes I feel like pansexual has become synonymous with transgender, although that is not accurate, because sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate variables.
Amusing. Amusing that a male who wears women's clothes finds it so afraid that someone might think he's gay. I'm not offended by that. I just find it amusing.
I gets a little less than amusing when it's said in condescending way. Like, "Don't confuse me with any of THOSE people". Like you're better than me. If you don't want people to think you're gay you really should re-think being a crossdresser, because that's what people think. Oh, and the whole "only when I'm dressed so it doesn't really count" thing. Try telling that to the credit card company after your next fem shopping spree.
Yes, but you have to remember that is how society at large thinks of us. The only way that they can process Crossdresser is to link it with being gay, unfortunately. As I understand, the largest constituency among us is straight males, but what you would likely hear is: "You can't tell me that anyone who wears...". Because of this reaction, it could be that there is a backlash within our community.
In my world and in the world of realists its not ignorant my dear its just plain up brutally honest with urself
Just simple logic , if your not gay then dnt crossdress on a cnstant basis lol, even a kid or a granpa will tell u dat
I don't give a hoot what people perceive of me when I'm out & about. If they perceive trans, then whatever. If that equates to gay, whatever. I'm with Rhonda and it doesn't matter in the least bit. But to make a statement as you have done, wearing a skirt on a constant basis (what constitutes constant???) = gay (no ifs, no buts, etc. yadda yadda yadda)...seriously, you have a lot of learning to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by LesliePinky
Leslie's expressing a perspective from a different cultural background and while it may not align with yours, she's not being rude or personalising this discussion...
Try to think for a moment about her background and a culture that prominently features Ladyboys, a thriving (and foreign fuelled) sex industry and perhaps you can cut her some slack...?
It's an opinion - nothing more... :)
Oh - and stick to the OP too.
Katey
Moderator
Going back to the ORIGIN of the discussion..I only wish that people would be more comfortable with themselves and their feelings and far less worried on how others view it.It just isn't good to try to compartmentalize or justify your inner feelings..not worth it. "Bi Curious" often describes an "interest in experimenting" with it and "Pansexual" is a nice term that describes it when the "experiment" is over and you find that"you like it"...lol
If you ask the average guy on the street if he would cross-dress for a year he would probably say no. If you offer him a million dollars to do so and he does, what does that say about him? It says that he wants a million dollars. When doing something is contingent on something else it just means that what the act is contingent on is more desired then the actual act. If you fantasize about being with men only when you fantasize about being a woman and never as a man. I would say it just means you are really turned on about the idea of being a woman and experiencing things from a woman's perspective. I highly doubt you are gay, just really imaginative. I think this probably happens to a lot of us cross-dressers.
Just dressing like a woman does not change who you are. Saying or thinking that strapping on a pair of boobs and a wig changes your sexual orientation is silly. Regardless of how you are dressed, if you are a male and have sex with other males, you are gay or bi-sexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that, those terms describe your sexual orientation.
I think most crossdressers fantasize being a female and having sex with a male but that's as far as we take it.
I agree if your a guy who enjoys wearing women's underwear, dresses, etc it doesn't necessarily mean your gay. I have a few fellow CD's whom are very straight but they enjoy crossdressing for the sheer excitement of it all. I on the other hand am bi, I like women but I also enjoy being the lady and pleasing my male friends who loves his CD lover.
I re-read the OP and can't find anything indicating Cheryl believes there's anything wrong with being gay. We should know by now that sexual preferences and gender identity and presentations aren't the polar opposites we were taught and society at large wants to believe it should be. And so we ask questions and use labels to try to understand ourselves. Have we become so PC that we can't even ask a question without someone assuming an underlying prejudice?
Im just stating my opinion i know ur country well i know black friday sale, evrything is bigger in txas, swampy florida, so my opnion is not really bec of my background or what i see here etc... Im jst sayin tht is my prsonal opinion hehe love or hate it well we dont see women wearing shorts , mens shirt or suits,or fake beard and moustache in public just for the thrill of it dont we?
Just as I believe there is a continuous spectrum of sexual orientation, I also believe there's a continous spectrum in gender identity. However, I do think they are mutually exclusive. That said, here's my response to the original post:
I consider myself a 2 on the Kinsey Scale. Though I'm technically bisexual by definition, I still identify as mostly straight, and straight being an approximation. However, although I only date women, I have had a few experieces with men that I have enjoyed, but not in girl mode.
Though it has been few times I have actually been out in guy mode, I have noticed men checking me out, and I do find it arousing. Not that I have a sexual attraction towards those men, but it's the fact that they find me worth checking out (mini skirt and heels, and funny they pretend they're not looking hehe). I think I may end up wanting to experiment with men while in guy mode out of curiousity. But for the time being, I prefer to be girly with girls.
So, back to the OP: no, logically that does not make you gay. But let's assume it does... who cares? Remember, while in guy mode we try to pretend we're not looking at each other's penises in the men's room - but even if we do look - does that make us gay?
OMG wearing a skirt on a constant basis really does make me gay?!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYTHING BUT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Insert "Your Gay" Dr. Drew sound bite from Love Lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by LesliePinky
If I may, a minor adjustment.Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleScott
Crossdressing drops an artificial barrier. We put our head into that 'other space'
The biggest sexual organ in the human body is the BRAIN.
If putting on girly things helps us access that part of ourselves that feels like that, then so be it. It is a technique, a tool. In the same way that meditation helps us reach a new place that we normally have a hard time reaching.
It is all US, honey. No need to feel judgmental about that.
- MM
Think Zyila nailed it again. You probably have common sexual kink.
If you want to think of yourself as straight again and don't like the gay thought find a woman who likes to CD to be your boyfriend on dates........ or stop caring about labels.
This is not true for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
Can't speak for medication, but the CDing does help some CDers become someone else. So there are indeed two different perspectives on the matter. Likely, both are correct depending on whether the individual is TS or not … although it is my understanding that generally TSs don't become different people when they dress, with different personalities, preferences, and sexual orientations.
I used to drink a lot. I used to think that when I drank, the truth that I daren't have spoken when sober came out … a lowering of inhibitions so to speak. Now that I don't drink anymore, I see that it was all BS. The drinking actually turned me into a person who wasn't fundamentally me.
Thanks Reine, I need to think on that for a bit.
I know I'm in a different place than most members here, and I have a hard time putting myself into a more 'limited' (no slight intended) place.
To me, I do change personalities a bit when I dress. When I'm overstressed, putting on a skirt helps me relax. When I'm looking for 'receptive' intimacy instead of 'projective' intimacy, it is easier when I'm wearing frills. I still feel both parts, but the clothing helps nudge my mood.
On some levels I'd equate it on dressing for work. Your headspace is different in 'professional' clothing than it is in 'comfy' clothing.
- MM
Mechamoose, if putting on different clothing changes your mood, then maybe it is not about gender identity?
About the headspace: I recently started working again after many years of wearing mostly jeans at home. So now I wear skirts and dresses a lot because this best fits the way that other women in my position dress … not too casual, not too dressy, certainly not trendy or fashion plate, in other words the goal is to not distract from the matters at hand with appearance. Truthfully this does not in the slightest degree change my mood or my headspace. The only difference is that now I go to work prepared to put in a 9-10 hour day and I'm gearing myself up for not having as much freedom and down time as I did before, which has nothing to do with the way I dress. If I was working in a creative/casual-type environment where everyone wore blue-jeans and Tshirts, this is what I would wear as well and it would also not affect my attitude or work habits.Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
Reine:
I get your take as a 'transformative' CD person. (please correct me if I am wrong) You are seeking to live a 'she' version of life.
That isn't where I'm coming from. I'm never going to 'pass'.. more importantly, 'passing' isn't my goal. I want to be a guy in eyeliner, toe rings and nice clothing and not have that FU#&Ing matter.
- MM
I have to agree with MM here(dammit, I HATE when that happens)...HYPHEN ALERT: Your basic-semi-well-adjusted-hetero-CDer just wants to feel pretty sometimes. I think of us as bi-genders, at least after we get past the fetish stage...And it's not always just "pretty", sometimes actually, it's "gentle". In the real world, I am known far and wide as the gentlest dude around. When out socially(ie: church, dances, parties etc), old friends, guys, gals,& little ol' ladies, seek me out because they want a hug, and they know that I'm the best frickin' hugger in any given room....And that hugging isn't necessarily gender related. But I have to "present" as a guy out there, gentle though I may be:-)....So, dressing for me, like MM, IS a way for me to relax, in the sense that I can let my hair down...And whether I pass or not doesn't really matter...I also meditate, take long walks in the woods, and have been known to set my alarm for 3:00 a.m so that I can simply sit on the back deck and listen to the stars go by because the hour between 3:00 & 4:00 a.m. is the most magical hour in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
Whoops, I'm rambling....Who I am is not defined by what I wear, but here's where I agree with MM...Wouldn't it be a lovely world where what you wear isn't what defines/judges you, but is simply what you feel like wearing on any given day?
But to answer the original question...Yeah, sometimes when I dress, I fantasize about being a sl*t and think yeah, I would do anyone & everything!!!!....Not totally unlike Mick Jagger:-), but sl*ttiness isn't in my genetic makeup...Which is probably just as well...So whether I'm in drab or en femme, or a combination, I try to remember what MM says about the bodies organs; the brain is the strongest, and I try to consciously keep my blood flowing up there, because otherwise, lower chakras take over, and who needs that???
Jaye
Hmmm....interesting. Although I will agree that the majority of society assumes a CDer, whether male to female or female to male is a homosexual (admitting I that until recently I was one of the majority) I think CDers are much moire likely to suffer negative backlash than gay/lesbians. My understanding is there is even prejudice against CDers in the gay/lesbian community. The truth is, this subject is misunderstood within the CD/TG group. The gay/lesbian community has made tremendous strides of acceptance. Yes, they still have a long way to go, but CDing is still a much more unclear subject to say the least. There are several sub-categories of CDing and until they become defined, it will be even harder for society to accept. The truth is I'm not sure gay/lesbian is an issue. The word I have heard most often is not one I like to share in general, let alone here.Quote:
Originally Posted by flatlander_48
I agree with several of the other posts, that having a desire to be with a male while dressed as a female but not while dressed as male is just a way of compartmentalizing those feelings. I would believe they exist within your mind all the time but you only allow yourself to bring them to the forefront while dressed as a female because on some level you find that acceptable. Who the heck cares anyway. I think many CDers here over-analyze their actions, behavior and appearance when dressed as a female vs. male.
A PB & J sandwich is still a PB & J whether on white bread or wheat bread.
When in male mode I truly love all things female, no doubt, 100% love'em. When I dress never think about men only women, so I guess I'm a lesbian? Hell I don't know, I have no problem with being gay I've tried oral with a couple of men and it was ok (never in female mode) but I still prefer women. I will never pass and I don't need to, I dress for the excitement, relaxing calm feeling that I get, , period. If you're gay thats ok just be it and own it.
I agree, it would be nice if we lived in such a society, if people didn't assign any particular looks or styles to gender. Everyone would be free to dress/present as they want. But then I suspect that many CDers would be unhappy. There'd be no particular feminine look.Quote:
Originally Posted by mechamoose
The problem arises should we want to date women; women don't usually want to date bi men or a gay man who they believe may be simply deceiving himself about his own sexuality. Once you're 'labeled' as gay, there will always be the suspician, and it's hard enough to find someone to date in this world, especially as we get older, that we simply want to avoid any further difficulties. Why make things harder on ourselves? The odds of finding a woman who's turned on by a guy who crossdresses is slim enough without creating more potential problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
No, I would think you are a heterosexual male who gets some satisfaction out of wearing women's clothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by lpjamey
When dressed as a female, you are still a male. Your're just a PB & J on wheat. :)
"You feel, how you feel". One of my ex-wives said that, but really, nothing rings truer. It's how you react to it that matters. I've often felt a little lonely out here in Crossdressers.comville because personally, no matter how dolled up I get, how feminine and sexy I adorn myself, I still just want to make love with women. Call me crazy but I love pussy. For me, men hold no attraction and as much as I've tried to imagine myself with a man, it just ain't happening for me. I'm not sure what that means but, I feel, how I feel. The thing is, everyone on this forum has something in common, and if you're like me, and you know you are, we love a nice pair of lace, silk panties but that might just be where we part ways. Whatever...
Thanks for listening.
Here's some info: a number of you have responded in private messages.
The verdict is that most of you agree with me, about liking guys while dressed.
When enfemme I love men, in drab not at all.
But the question is, Cheryl, how many of these members have actually done it? It's one thing to fantasize and quite another to establish a sexual relationship with a man. Would they still like it after the experience?Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylFlint
It would be interesting to have a poll and have absolutely everyone who participates in this forum answer, not just the members who are bi.
A lot of people are here to play out their fantasies.
Sometimes_miss, you mention a difficulty finding women who like CDers because most believe them to be gay. There is another big reason that women don't as a rule go for CDers. I'm sure that (some? many?) women would believe, once it has been explained, that their new partner is not gay. But, it's difficult to get over the fear of others finding out. There still is a stigma against men who present as women. Even the CDers who go out on a regular basis keep this private from work and the people in their daily lives.
I did it...LOL....I am Bi............and I still liked it after........but I'm a rare breed around these parts...Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Cheryl... Get beyond the sexual labels... They are so restrictive in allowing the individual to freely express their true feelings at a given moment...
Gay Straight whatever.........Peace and good health to all
I just remembered that I actually am gay. I'm just waiting for it to manifest itself. When I was 17 and in a lot of legal trouble I had to be evaluated by a jailhouse psychiatrist for the judge to use in sentencing me. He said, among other things, that I was a "latent homosexual." I was strangely proud of that. The judge must not have thought it a big deal since she sent me home with probation. I'm still waiting for the gay to overtake me forty three years later.
Did you 'do' them to experience a fantasy, or because you *liked* them?Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
If your answer is 'fantasy', then you USED them. If your answer is 'liked', then you are putting up a HUGE gender/identity challenge, but you still put those hips up in the air, didn't you?
As I have said in many other threads, this thing of ours is about being *US*, not about an act. It isn't about 'faking' or 'passing'. It is figuring out how to be ourselves without being (light) embarrassed; (heavy) getting the cr@p beaten out of us.
.
I have a similar outlook to you but I am not attracted to men.
When with a group of girls I would look at men slightly differently and agree about their various attributes.
I am in the same boat as Adriana....exactly the same boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
How do I feel about the Gay thing?.. After reading some of the threads on this forum ....its not easy being a Gay crossdreser :sad:
When in guy I am 100% my SO's SO.
When enfemme I am 100% my SO's SO.
I am 100% always the same, the guy SO for my GG SO.
She is everything I will ever need and everything I could ever want and no matter what I am wearing I am a guy in an eternal relationship with my SO.
When enfemme I feel less masculine and more feminine, but I still realize that I am a guy and that is not going to change. Maybe I can escape the pressures of my life when enfemme, but at the end, I must go back to being a guy because that is where I know I belong. It is what works for me. And being the guy in our relationship works for me too.
I LIKE being a guy. But I like it MORE because I am a guy by choice. And I can choose to be a sorta girl for a while.
But I will never find any attraction in other guys. Even when enfemme. Women are like walking breathing artwork to me.
This is for me. It in NO way is an opinion on same sex couples. Everyone has a right to be happy in any kind of mutually beneficial relationship they choose. Even though our government and laws may not reflect that, YET.