Why is it assumed that a gay bar is cross dresser freindly?

Not being a drinker or a person into the bar scene I haven't been to any bars myself. I've wondered about similar things to the OP. Why do people who are reluctant to go to areas frequented by the general public feel safer going to gay bars. I always figured whatever works for each individual is fine and to each their own. I prefer to go out during the day to places like malls, museums, restaurants (if I have someone to share a meal with), and the like. That's what works for me.
I wouldn't expect gay bars to be automatically or categorically friendlier than straight bars. I would think it would depend a lot on the individual bar and their usual clientele.

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Originally Posted by PaulaQ

Oh wait - I know! Perhaps the confusion at hand is caused by a misunderstanding of the word "friendly?"

The phrase "gay bars are cross dresser friendly" really means you are significantly less likely to be beaten up, ridiculed, or tossed out on your ear for showing up CDed at the gay bar than in most straight bars. So in this context "friendly" really means "significantly less likely to be beaten up, ridiculed, or tossed out."

It does not mean that you'll get a reaction like "Dayum girl! You look fabulous in those heels!", although that can happen. That would be another type of friendly.

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Actually, at the gay club that I prefer to frequent, I get exactly that reaction, on a regular basis, from both the male and female patrons at the club!

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Originally Posted by Judith96a

I have been to one particular lesbian bar in London on several occasions and have always felt comfortable there. The door policy is effectively "No men, unless accompanying and vouched for by a woman" (they don't quite insist on men being on a lead and muzzled!) However, their attitude to cross dressing males appears to be "OK, we know that you're really a fella but you're doing your best to look like a woman. So...we'll play along so long as you behave appropriately - no escort required". I can live with that!

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I am originally from Massachusetts where lesbians hate men more than any hate group hates their victim group. A crossdressing mft will be victimized in a lesbian bar because they are not naturally a woman. I had one lesbian tell me that crossdressers are making fun of women and should be punished for such behavoir. My experience with this group has not been positive.

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And they felt that crossdressing is a completely optional activity, so why do crossdressers choose to cause embarrassment and trouble for themselves and for gay people?

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I guess it's optional whether or not we come out of the closet, same for gays. I don't know any CDs that chose this. We were either born with it, or it's the result of something that happened in early childhood.

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crossdressers are making fun of women and should be punished for such behavoir

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Unbelievably ignorant - both quotes above. Our intersex sisters physically manifest that there is something to being born in a gray area, concerning gender.

Alwayshave,There are hard core penis hating lesbians out there for sure,but there are also the softer ones.Same goes for the guys...A slap em beat em leather bar crowd is the opposite of the "patron of the arts" male gay crowd. On a side note,"Bears" are the most closeted group of gays possible!! They "just never seem to find the right girl to date" according to their parents! [who haven't a clue!]

I have frequented a few clubs here lately and in Dallas. I have had great times met nice people and have had no issues in gay friendly places. Here the club I frequent always has a few crossdressers there beside me and it seems nobody cares there your just another face in the crowd. I even met a very nice gay man I talked to for a while and always do when I go so from my personal experiences it is a much better place to hang out have fun dance drink watch music videos etc than a straight nightclub. It is wrong in my opinion and from experience to say that this is just an illusion or a false perception that its safer in these places. In this town it is definitely better safer more interesting and definitely a mixture of interesting characters.
I am serious crossdresser and I do not feel I was born with it and did not have something happen to me in childhood. I do it because I like it and it feels wonderful to me. It is somewhat of a choice for me and I choose to do it.

I've always wanted to be able to enter a bar fully dressed. Actually, since I've been DJ for many many years my secret dream is to work in a bar as Drag Dj or something like that.....shall I keep dreaming?

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Originally Posted by Eleonore

I've always wanted to be able to enter a bar fully dressed. Actually, since I've been DJ for many many years my secret dream is to work in a bar as Drag Dj or something like that.....shall I keep dreaming?

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That is too funny! I was a dj for 16 years and always dreamt of djing in full dress! Still do! For years I thought i was the only one! Good to know I'm not alone! Lol

Jenna

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That is too funny! I was a dj for 16 years and always dreamt of djing in full dress! Still do! For years I thought i was the only one! Good to know I'm not alone! Lol

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A DJ for 32 years here. Made a nice living at it. Never had any desire to DJ en fem. Always kept it separate from my work. Saw a few CDs at our singles dances over the years. Nobody bothered them. Some of the men would dare each other to ask the CD to dance. One guy didn't know the "lady" he asked to dance was a CD, until the other guys told him. His face got red and he left. One "lady" looked really hot, I have to say.

It really depends on the venue. In Denver, most "gay bars" are trans-friendly. I saw a list online of the top gay bars in Denver, and I realized I'd been to the first four on the list! (Tracks, the Black Crown, Charlie's, and the Aqua Lounge)

However, there is one gay bar in Denver that is noted for its unfriendliness to transwomen...probably because it caters to "bears," or the really hyper-masculine kind of gay men. It's been so bad that there have actually been complaints to the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. Of course, given its clientele, it's unlikely I'd be interested in going there anyway...

Really, Denver is a very "open city" for trans people; we can go pretty much anywhere.

- Amy

Probably been said already, but:

Because it is assumed gay people are open-minded. However, gender identity and sexual orientation need not be related (almost always isn't). I've personally witnessed gay men talking down on transgendered people. Likewise, I've read comments from CD's that seem a bit homophobic (e.g. "I love dressing as a woman because I love women, but two guys together is just gross.").

But, I'd say choosing a gay bar over a "regular" bar has a better probability of being accepting.

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Originally Posted by alwayshave

I am originally from Massachusetts where lesbians hate men more than any hate group hates their victim group. A crossdressing mft will be victimized in a lesbian bar because they are not naturally a woman. I had one lesbian tell me that crossdressers are making fun of women and should be punished for such behavoir. My experience with this group has not been positive.

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Just goes to show that for any 'label' what happens in one bar tells you absolutely nothing about what might happen in any other bar with the same label!

The moral, especially for those who may be visiting an unfamiliar area? Assume nothing, ask the local TG community!

I have been to a good number of gay bars, but one thing that I always do is to contact the place prior to going there dressed. I telephone and ask if they are friendly to patrons who are crossdressed. Usually they are and I have not had a negative experience while using this mode of operation. Recently I went to a place that was new to me. I contacted the place and they said that there was no issue. When I arrived there were a lot of people there. I identified my self to one of the staff and she sat with me for a time. I had a positive experience there. Planning and preparation helps to alleviate issues.

I ve been to a couple regular gay bars that don't advertise "T -friendly " and got a luke warm reception. Better than if I walked into a sports bar. But nothing special. But I would prefer an openly T friendly place like brass rail , triangles or ( rip ) cedar brook.
On the flip side I recently read an article
About people In the T community insulted by a trend of none CD gay men taking to dressing solely for the opportunity to hook up with young attractive men that would otherwise be out of there league.
It was an interesting point of view.

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Originally Posted by missVS

I am serious crossdresser and I do not feel I was born with it and did not have something happen to me in childhood. I do it because I like it and it feels wonderful to me. It is somewhat of a choice for me and I choose to do it.

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Could be, but do you remember everything that happened to you between ages 0 and 3? Some moms like to see what their baby looks like in an article of their sister's clothing.

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Originally Posted by funtimesinheels

That is too funny! I was a dj for 16 years and always dreamt of djing in full dress! Still do! For years I thought i was the only one! Good to know I'm not alone! Lol

Jenna

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Do we really think it's just coincidence that CD + DJ become CDJ the most used word in DJ world nowadays? :) :) :)

Whether you are tolerated or accepted, I do believe you are less likely to be bothered, harassed, or beat up in a gay bar. Personally, I don't care if they accept me or not, as long as they don't bother me.

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Originally Posted by LisaK

From personal experience, there are plenty of gay guys who are every bit as transphobic, but they don't tend to lash out violently. I would still recommend to anyone going out dressed for the first time that a gay bar is a good, safe place to spread your wings.

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Just don't forget, that if you're going to a gay bar, dressed as a female, there will be a natural assumption by those who are there, that YOU are also gay, and don't be surprised when you get not so kind comments when guys there hit on you and you then try to explain to them that you're straight.

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Originally Posted by sabrinaedwards

I have been to a good number of gay bars, but one thing that I always do is to contact the place prior to going there dressed. I telephone and ask if they are friendly to patrons who are crossdressed.

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Since the experiences of those that responded are varied, Sabrina's advice is best. If you aren't sure, call first. I went (in guy mode) in the afternoon to a club I had never been to, and asked all the pertinent questions (crossdressers welcome: yes; restroom: either; etc.). So I went. no problems. And no need to make assumptions.
One big clue that the club was cd-friendly is that they had drag queen and drag king shows on certain days. But I still made no assumptions and inquired.

I have tried both gay and straightish bars. Always alone, so without any honest feedback, I always think I pass - for about a minute. Then the bartender gives that involuntary smirk. That's about it. If you can endure that...sigh. Joni

"Why is it assumed that a gay bar is cross dresser freindly? "

I don't assume that. I can only guess that most people think crossdressers are gay so that's where we would fit in best.

There are gay bars and gay bars, if you know what I mean... there are some hard-core, men-only gay bars I wouldn't step into and there are LGBT bars that are wonderful, welcoming places. You gotta know your crowd; you gotta sense the room. Bars being businesses, most gay bars are open to all the LGBT spectrum because we all buy drinks and that's probably why there's a perception of "gay bars" being a safe haven. But even in friendly bars there are often corners where there's a "territory" staked out. Know your crowd; sense the room.

I could have told you about the lesbian crowd. These women are in a class by themselves and do not meld with no other crowd. Then there are the draq queens that are vocal, in your face, judgmental, in your face, I avoid. It's been said in this thread. Check it out first please. I found that on line searches will find places in some towns that are specific about being CD friendly, and offer event calendars like here in Houston.

I find that gay bars in general are more click-ish than regular bars but this depends on the area too. It most always seems as if everyone knows each other, or there are large groups of friends who hang out there. This is likely because the community in general is small and there aren't that many gay bars in any given area?

CD is NOT the same as DQ.

DQs are usually a character. CDs are usually being themselves, and are terrified.

Gay males are males who like other males. Our community are folks who are not comfortable in their natural-born flesh, and feel like aliens in their own skin.

Gays & Lesbians have *all*kinds* of my respect. They want to be themselves. I would suggest that while many question their roles, nobody questions their gender. Our members are on the other end of that... gender is at issue, but roles are pretty bare and open.

Where is Geordi?!?!? "Captain, we need to reverse polarity!!!"

- MM

Hi Jenn, Why do so many just assume that all Crossdressers are Gay ??

No science to back it up, but I have theory that straight crossdressers, which all the surveys say are the majority, tend to be more closeted and aren't seen. Gay and bi crossdressers go out more, are seen more, are presented in the media more and the public perception is that they're more representative of crossdresserdom (if that's a word.)

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Originally Posted by BLUE ORCHID

Hi Jenn, Why do so many just assume that all Crossdressers are Gay ??

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Well, I think that assumption is both natural and reasonable. It goes like this: most woman like men. Wanting to present as female means you like men. Why would a straight man want to dress as a woman?!?!

I dressed for years at home and decided I wanted to go out, this was like 1990. I went not dressed to a couple of so-called gay bars first and checked them out. If it matters I don't consider myself gay I just figured gay people would be more excepting than people in a typical bar.
After years of going out I feel strongly gay bars are far more excepting. In fact I went into a regular night club one night and was asked to leave, they said I was not dressed properly.
I started going out like once a week for several years. I found that basically no one paid much any attention in gay bars except for guys interested in us girls. I was advised to never go to a leather bar, which I wound not do anyway.

Someone else on this thread mentioned lesbians are the less excepting. I found that out several different times, they could be very catty. Gay guys was usually very friendly and would enjoy talking with you.

I agree. With the exception of Halloween, gay men are not necessarily thrilled to be around crossdressers. I only frequented gay bars for a short time back in the day and realized early on that I was not really welcomed. I don't think that has changed much. Most stories I here have the men on one side of the bar and the "girls" on the other side. Kind of like Catholic school.

strangest Catholic school I ever heard of....;-)

One would think that people who are looking for acceptance and tolerance would be accepting and tolerant themselves. Not always so.

Last night I spent some time with friends at a local sports bar (in drab.) Now I know why would I think gay bars would be accepting of crossdressers. It'll take a week to wash the testosterone smell out of my hair...

I find the LGBT community more accepting. I don't feel uncomfortable or out of place.... what's wrong with that?

What does everyone else do when you go out to have fun?

Actually, I didn't make any such assumption early on. I didn't have a clue -- I knew zippo about gays, and this was pre-Forum etc -- so my first outings I was nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I desperately wanted to go somewhere and tried picturing myself going into one of the local kicker or yuppie bars, but all those reveries ended with either an ambulance ride or a walk of shame, and honestly, to this day I have yet to test those waters here at home. So, following the logic that's already been posted, I went the gay route by default and that instinct proved out. So it's not that I assume, I know for a fact that gay venues are tolerant, at least around here.

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Originally Posted by Michelle_G

One would think that people who are looking for acceptance and tolerance would be accepting and tolerant themselves. Not always so.

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Rarely in any case. remember

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There is a long hair that doesn't like the short hair
For being' such a rich one, that will not help the poor one

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. Even here we separate factions. It is human nature

I find it is varying everywhere. Never had a problem at a "straight" venue. Never had a problem at a "gay" venue. Gay guys talk to me all the time because I am not a threat. Lesbians have taken me under their wing many times. Been to leather clubs. Been to drag bars (now there I met with cattiness). Been to arty bars and been to sports bars. No one says anything (what they think I don't really care anymore). I stay away from bars where I know I won't fit. I don't do biker bars but have friends who do. I don't like hairy men so bear bars are not my style ( I mean what if one hits on me?). I also don't frequent meat market bars. Straight men won't date me because they think it will make them gay. Straight women find me fascinating but not as a date.

The bar I perform in started as a "gay" bar but is now 50/50. I have heard a couple remarks about the drag queens (which really hardly ever come there) and two Yelp reviews complained about the crossdressers. The management answered both quickly with "We don't discriminate". Yes there have been people who have come in that don't fit and on occasion try and bend the place to suit them While they aren't thrown out they are made to feel that they need to find a new location. What exactly are you looking for? If you are looking for a hookup, you need to choose a bar that is known for that. If you are looking to dance, I have never seen anyone turned away as long as you are proper. If you are looking for conversation...see what I am saying?

When you first go out, most middle of the road gay bars will welcome your cash. Acting like a hooker or an over sexed 16 year old probably would be less welcome. That is what I see in gay bars with newly minted CDs. They haven't lost the sexual fetish part and they expect any man would trip trying to have them Realize that in today's world a lot of gay and lesbians have partners...like any straight bar...you don't mess with another person's partner. i see CDs that have hard time telling the difference between just talking and trying to seduce. Just go and be yourself and relax. You may be hit on you may not...even by a lesbian

I have found them to be accepting but it depends really on the bar, leather or bars that cater to bears or the other masculine gay fetish niches would probably not into it.

From my experience the gay community as said before tolerates Crossdressers and Transexuals but certainly do not go out there way to make them feel welcome.

Also agree that Lesbians are even less tolerant of Crossdressers and Transexuals.

But I can see where they are coming from at times as society did not know where to pigeon hole CD's & TS's so they just tagged us onto the the LGB community hence its now LGBT.

But the bottom line is that even in 2015 society have to label everyone and as you see LGBT just does that and singles people out as being different from normal society which is just insulting to all concerned.

I know!!!! I want to hang with more sisters like us!!!

This is only my observation, I don't think any bar, straight, gay, or whatever, is going to welcome any new person with open arms. CDers have to build a relationship with the place (maybe with the bar tenders). Maybe they should go with another crossdresser, be friendly, and don't expect too much. The dynamics also change with each visit, even to the same bar. It all depends on the people who are there during each particular visit.

my new thing to do is to go into str8 bars dressed ( in numbers) ......never a problem yet.....yet......but if you dress properly and represent accordingly there should be no issues.....staffs have been extremely friendly, even helping us call cabs at the end of a night. Your only as strong as your weakest link so make sure your gal pals are all on the same page

I agree with you insomuch as gay people have their own agenda and beliefs.
They also differ from ours, we still like women where they are attracted to people of the same sex.
We like clothing of the opposite sex and this gives us a drive.
Men do have many fantasies about other men and and these are quite different to cross dressers.
Women also have a totally different attraction to other women and their fantasies can include men or even to the extent of abhorrence.

The only tangible link I see is that we have all been attracted away from what people see as a "normal" hetrosexual relationship.
We are driven together because society defines us as different.

Speaking from a LOT of experience, gay bar patrons are more tolerant than straight counterparts, but more importantly, even if they have issues with CD's, they aren't going to physically attack anyone. I've never, ever heard of gay people physically attacking trans people of any variety.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Just don't forget, that if you're going to a gay bar, dressed as a female, there will be a natural assumption by those who are there, that YOU are also gay, and don't be surprised when you get not so kind comments when guys there hit on you and you then try to explain to them that you're straight.

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I don't know, I've had good times in most kinds of bars including gay though I do avoid sports bars unless I am with a bunch of girls. Lesbian bars in Manhatran, kind of iffy unless you're really looking good or with GGs. But when someone hits on you in any venue why wouldn't you just say "thanks but no not tonight" no need to go into who is straight or bi or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Beverley Sims

We are driven together because society defines us as different.

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And because the Muggles, even though the information in out there if they'd only look, think that we're "all" Gay! :cry:

I assumed it and was correct in my instance... after all we are the "T" in the LGBT grouping.

In my years of crossdressing I had trouble finding somewhere to go to relax. I found a couple of good places in Brisbane. 2 gay pubs, and one had accomadation. While it was safe and comfortable, the gays (particurely men) hated us. We were considered weird and not wanted among their territory. Gay people cry for acceptance, but have the time to judge us.

My experience with Gay bars has always been positive to be fair. Always supportive and I've never seen any trouble. I don't know if it's just where I live but our gay clubs have a good mix of people.
In fact my experiences out and about have been on the whole a positive experience.

Before I realised I was CD (dumb, I know but hey), I felt uncomfortable in gay bars the few times I went in, but then I saw myself as hetero, probably all my "stuff".
I don't know if they're more accepting or not, but I'd ASSUME that no-one likes to make social faux-pas. So the dress code indicates preferences there, and maybe CD-ing confuses and heightens social-error risks, thus making everyone involved a bit less comfortable?

This is kind of an aside, but do TG clubs have ladies' nights just like regular bars and clubs? I've never been and I'm curious.