walkin round in woman's underwear? 😠

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Originally Posted by Marcelle

Now you might believe the song is aimed only at crossdressers but "newsflash" unless someone is educated in the concept of the TG spectrum they don't differentiate between TS and CD, we are all the same in the eyes of those who hate.

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This was my argument whenever I argued against including CD as part of a "TG umbrella", although I don't recall ever referring to the misunderstanding as "hate". I simply don't like the fact I crossdress being mistaken as meaning I am somehow gender conflicted.

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Originally Posted by Marcelle

On another note, nobody goes around berating, physically assaulting or doing worse to people who are carpenters, painters or pensioners . . they do however do so to TG persons (both TS and CD). There are no negative stereotypes associated with being a carpenter, painter or pensioner which would lead people to minimalize those groups of people and see them as less than human.

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There is scarcely any occupational group or profession that is not poked fun of on some TV show or movie or comic strip. Think of lawyers, doctors and accountants (my profession). I think the negative portrayals of the pencil pushers, while an exaggeration, are to some extent true but more importantly are hilarious. Lawyers and doctors get even worse treatment in my opinion, but I don't hear them complain. What about Archie Bunker and his white, right wing, patriotic, conservative viewpoints. They were mocked to an extent that would have led to riots if aimed at some factions, but a sense of humour prevailed. And as for stereotypes what about the satirizing of Italian mothers and sons on Everybody Loves Raymond. And pensioners are the butt of comedy to an extent that would drive many around the bend. Endless jokes about incontinence, forgetfulness, not being up on technology and other modern (in)conveniences. And what about the Scots and their "skirts" and frugality. Wow there are some real knee slappers about them. And the French and their inability to fight (now not so relevant), the Polish, the Germans, the Swedes, the Irish (drunken, brawling blokes that they are) and on and on. Nerds, punks, the nearsighted with coke bottle specs, fat people, tall people, clumsy people, ... We have all been the butt of the joke numerous times. I don't know about others, but I would hate to live in a humorless world. It is sad that because of PC, dropping a lot of "F bombs" is now thought of as hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

Food for thought, I can think of very few instances of parody that is directed at vanilla white males.

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Read my above comments, and tune into some of those shows for a few chuckles about us white folks of the masculine persuasion.

Veronica :heehee:

The way I see it is that we all want to express our individuality, even if it offends other people. Therefore we have to let others express their individuality. Even if their individuality is them expressing displeasure in what we do.

If the worst thing that we have to worry about is a song that someone wrote to make people laugh, even if it is at our expense, then I think we are doing ok.

NEWSFLASH, not everyone is going to be ok with what we do.

I heard this song just the other day and I find it quite amusing. Doesn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact I went out shopping this morning with panties on under my drab clothes. To each their own....

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Originally Posted by Jennie-cd

Who here is old enough to remember Amos n' Andy?

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I love that show. The radio program is just as good. When I hear it on XM I both laugh and think "They'd never be able to do that now". It's like Blazing Saddles. You'll never see another movie like that.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Marcelle

Umm . . . never said the song said anything about that. The parody of TG folks obsessed with lingerie and prancing about as such says it all. So please get your facts straight before accusing me of lying. Thanks.

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You implied as much. But whatever. Be mad at a song. *shrug* Life's too short for faux outrage. I'm done reply to you.

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Originally Posted by Veronica27

Read my above comments, and tune into some of those shows for a few chuckles about us white folks of the masculine persuasion.

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I'm seeing other terms of description: conservative, tall, nationality, profession, etc.

My point was that the "white male" who experiences little, if any satire at his expense simply for being a "white male is usually the first to throw stones. Fact of the matter, many fail to make anything beyond a superficial connection with the minority group that is TG.

Yes, all of this over a song.

The song bugs.

I'm more partial to Weird Al's "Truck Drivin' Song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGLmiWfoJx8

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Originally Posted by Veronica27

There is scarcely any occupational group or profession that is not poked fun of on some TV show or movie or comic strip.

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I think you're missing the point of the very words you quote -- the difference is that doctors, as a whole, are not brought to physical harm as a result of a culture of making fun of them. Nobody says, "Let's go down the hospital and beat up some doctors." And your argument that doctors, lawyers and accountants don't take offense to the jokes either means you're just taking a rhetorical stance or you're completely out of touch. They very much mind them and in their professional gatherings express that pretty pointedly. But again, the difference is that you're not finding them bleeding in an alley put there by folks who argue "they had it coming." And if someone does harm a doctor, lawyer, etc. and they get arrested, there's no forgiving attitude. Doctors are not generally acknowledged to have a high suicide rate because they are rejected by society or their families. All of these things make the comparisons apples-to-oranges.

As for Archie Bunker -- were you alive then? There were most certainly protests over Norman Lear's liberal attitude and the "shameful" way he treated right-thinking Americans like Archie (no pun.) But again, nobody is lynching the Archie Bunkers of the world. Shakespeare famously advocated killing all the lawyers, but nobody is doing that. But they are killing transgender people at an alarming rate. And transgender people do have an alarming suicide rate directly linked to family and social rejection (there was an article about that just a month or so ago, but I don't have it to hand right now.)

Again, I'm certain no harm is intended by the song. But it promotes, or is a reflection of, a social attitude that we as a class need to change. Unless we like our closets. Unless we like having to sneak around. Like having to worry about losing our jobs or loved ones if our "secret" comes out. It's hard for me to imagine that's something we want to preserve.

Actually (and I do hate to put this out here at Christmas, I really do) the largest group of people who commit suicide is middle aged white males. Presumably a reason for that.

Anyone who feels offended at a song that accurately portrays a certain segment of our clique needs to understand that such behaviour just solidifies the public's negative view of us. Embrace the light side, admit your humanity. Nobody ever made an ally by trying to ban something.

I don't think anyone is trying to ban the song.

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Originally Posted by AngelaYVR

Actually (and I do hate to put this out here at Christmas, I really do) the largest group of people who commit suicide is middle aged white males. Presumably a reason for that.

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The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention says that "In 2013, the highest U.S. suicide rate (14.2) was among Whites and the second highest rate (11.7) was among American Indians and Alaska Natives." They go on to state that white males accounted for 70% of all suicides. So, yes, in terms of gross number of total successes (sounds so wrong) white males take the prize, but their rate is 14.2% The rate of transgender attempts (not necessarily successes) is generally listed as 41%. (Some of whom will be white males, I assume.) So the take-away is that in our smaller community more people attempt suicide.

Here's a link to an interesting article they have on their site which gives a statistic I hadn't seen before: the suicide attempt rate for male crossdressers is the lowest of the transgender community, coming in at "just" 21%. Still 'way larger than the general white male numbers though.

https://www.afsp.org/advocacy-public...sgender-people

Am I the only one to think this thread has derailed beyond recovery?

Yes! It's all about British Common Law ( 'n being girly 😉 ) Ya, I did lighten up!! Let's bring this post back in focus ladies!

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Originally Posted by Laurana

You implied as much. But whatever. Be mad at a song. *shrug* Life's too short for faux outrage. I'm done reply to you.

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How is it "faux" outrage? Do you understand what Faux means?

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faux
fō/
adjective
adjective: faux

made in imitation; artificial.
"a string of faux pearls"
not genuine; fake or false.

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. I believe Marcelle's outrage is real. Why? because MY outrage is real (and to bring this back to the other part of your post, Amos and Andy were played by two white guys capitalizing on white stereotyped ideas of blacks. Personally I find that highly insulting)

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Originally Posted by Jamie390

The way I see it is that we all want to express our individuality, even if it offends other people. Therefore we have to let others express their individuality. Even if their individuality is them expressing displeasure in what we do.

If the worst thing that we have to worry about is a song that someone wrote to make people laugh, even if it is at our expense, then I think we are doing ok.

NEWSFLASH, not everyone is going to be ok with what we do.

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Confusing point here So there is a line where being insulting is OK as long as it's done to make others laugh at your expense? That you can say (or DO) what you wish to someone else because it is YOUR feelings? And the worst? 25 Transpersons have been murdered in the US this year. Where does that hate start? When people stop seeing others as human, as something to make fun of, as objects of ridicule, as being different than they are and falling back on that as a reason to eliminate them. So it's OK to laugh and point...until it's not and someone gets hurt.

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Originally Posted by Sky

Am I the only one to think this thread has derailed beyond recovery?

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The OP asked what people thought of the song...I think it's still on point. Reasons that some find it offensive are valid as an answer

Well I can understand both sides. But hoot we are out as CD's and in public many times. Don't try to put us on the other side of the fence. What do I think of the song? It is a very old song about twenty five years ago. Hearing it back then made me think there were others out there like me. Their creative parity on it, I thought was harmless but I can see Marcelle's point and she is allowed to put her point out without the rebuttal that is found in this thread. Her point does show that it is probably wrong to make fun of us. But humor is sometimes good. Everybody has an opinion and I think we are good to show it but we do not need flame wars.

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

I'm seeing other terms of description: conservative, tall, nationality, profession, etc.

My point was that the "white male" who experiences little, if any satire at his expense simply for being a "white male is usually the first to throw stones. Fact of the matter, many fail to make anything beyond a superficial connection with the minority group that is TG.

Yes, all of this over a song.

The song bugs.

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When you consider all the stereotypes of white male husbands in television commercials over the years, white men have certainly been the butt of a lot of jokes. Also, worldwide white people are a minority. The descriptors you mention are mostly a necessary part of the discussion about poking fun at minority groups.

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Originally Posted by Jennie-cd

I think you're missing the point of the very words you quote -- the difference is that doctors, as a whole, are not brought to physical harm as a result of a culture of making fun of them.

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I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, that those who wish to bring harm to others are going to do it. It is seldom as a result of a culture of making fun of them. And doctors and lawyers have often been a major target for evil doers. Bombings of clinics and shooting up of court rooms are not exactly unheard of.

And was I alive for Archie Bunker? I am 76 years old; do the math. If my aging memory is correct, that was an era of much liberal protesting that far outweighed any right wing objections to Archie, In fact the whole climate was conducive to such a program.

As for the suicide statistics, I find them highly suspect. Out of every group of 20 white males, almost 3 will commit suicide? I have certainly known of some suicides, but out of the several thousand people I have likely worked with and attended school with, and lived near and done business with, the number of suicides would come nowhere close to those statistics. In fact the statistics about TG/CD are not very accurate. I have seen estimates of our numbers ranging from 2% to 10%. How do we draw any conclusions about such an unknown number of people.

I realize that some people will probably be offended by this song, but I prefer to follow the advice of AngelYVR:

"Anyone who feels offended at a song that accurately portrays a certain segment of our clique needs to understand that such behaviour just solidifies the public's negative view of us. Embrace the light side, admit your humanity. Nobody ever made an ally by trying to ban something."

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica27

As for the suicide statistics, I find them highly suspect. Out of every group of 20 white males, almost 3 will commit suicide?

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That's not what the statistics are saying. Sorry if I was confusing. The stats say that out of 1,000 suicides, 142 will be white males. Or a rate of 14.2 percent. That's why I like to provide a link with numbers like that so you can see where they come from.

There are two trends in this thread that I find deeply disturbing:-

1. The repeated assertion that "it's alright for you CD-ers but us TS-s"
2. The idea that it is absolutely unacceptable to make fun of someone on the basis of their race, ethnicity, height, choice of clothing, whatever. I'm studiously avoiding the use of the r-word but it's in the list too.

Have you ever heard of the phrase "divide and conquer"? We seem to be doing a good job of dividing ourselves. That will make it easy for others to do the conquering.

Yes, we can squirm / shudder at this song. Is it influential or is it a product of its time and context? I don't know. But I do know this - the Irish have been the butt of everyone's jokes for as long as anyone can remember. And yes that stereotype, that the Irish are 'thick', has resulted in beatings and assaults. But is even the most PC zealot suggesting that 'Paddy Irishman' jokes are a hate crime? No! And rightly so! Do you know how the Irish deal with being the butt of everyone else's jokes? We tell jokes about the stuffy English and thick Kerrymen and quietly get on with not being thick!

Hate and bigotry are not fun. But, if we can't have a laugh at ourselves, or acknowledge that about us that others find ridiculous then we're taking ourselves far too seriously.

Merry Christmas everyone, from a somewhat cold and windswept (but, for the moment, not wet) Ireland.

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Originally Posted by Jennie-cd

That's not what the statistics are saying. Sorry if I was confusing. The stats say that out of 1,000 suicides, 142 will be white males. Or a rate of 14.2 percent. That's why I like to provide a link with numbers like that so you can see where they come from.

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Thanks for the clarification. I did take a look at the link to see who the organization was and to take a quick peak at the percentages you quoted, but have to admit I didn't have the time today to read it beyond that.

Have a Merry Christmas

Veronica

Is that song really much different than Monty Python's Lumberjack Song"? :)

BTW.. ....
Speaking of "'Amos 'n' Andy"...
i got the whole TV series on CDs via E-bay.
I'm old enough to remember when it had it's first run on early TV.
it was about the only place where black people were depicted as upstanding businessmen, lawyers, policemen, even judges, etc
Only Andy and "The king Fish" were played for comedy and Amos was actually a level headed business and family man.

The only reason it became it became "banned" is because only one single member of the NAACP protested and everyone else panicked to become overly politically correct .
Fact is, all the descendants of the cast members are to this day proud of of what their relatives did in that show and are not at all ashamed of it .
In reality, a show like "Sanford And Son" is far more racially stereotypical of backs than Amos 'N "Andy ever was.

BTW ,"The Honeymooners" is just a white version of Amos "N' Andy using exactly the same format and basic characters.

So, if you get a chance, check out the Amos 'N' Andy series, it's classic early video comedy at its best, :)

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Originally Posted by Barbara Jo

Is that song really much different than Monty Python's Lumberjack Song"? :)

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Nope.

I remember when A & A use to be on right before Abbott and Costello on a Saturday morning. I'll have to check Ebay out for them.

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.......... I'll have to check Ebay out for them.

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Be aware that a complete A 'n" A set will contain 74 episodes on about 16 DVDs
I believe that there are about 3 episodes that are lost forever.

Also keep in mind that episode quality will vary somewhat as a few episodes are only remaining on 8mm film which were originally made to be shown to US troops.
However, they are are quite watchable.

BTW, If i had to pick a favorite character, it would be their lawyer friend....."Algonquin J Calhoun"
I always thought that Kramer's lawyer on Seinfeld was inspired by him. :)

Yeah, I'm fully aware of what the quality can be like. I once bought the "complete" Abbott and Costello radio program. A good number of them were fairly poor quality and a few were missing. Granted it's not the same as a TV show but the comparison in quality is there.

I was always partial to the King Fish.