Filming yourself in public?

:thinking: well, since it doesn't violate any rulez so far, yep open forum it is. Now exactly what should be allowed here in your mind?

nd in RE Laurababe's statement as quoted above, when you WANT to be noticed you will get noticed. That was the WrOP's intent, to get noticed. It wasn't to see if she (and why do so many here keep saying "he"? C'mon people the general rule is to use pronouns that match the clothing..yes?> no?). In general, I don't get a second glance in public, so the statement MOST people don't know (don't care) is true IF you don't want to be noticed

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ex·hi·bi·tion·ism
ˌeksəˈbiSHəˌnizəm/
noun
noun: exhibitionism

extravagant behavior that is intended to attract attention to oneself.

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This was blatant exhibitionism, I still say it has a very STRONG sexual component (and thank gawd the WrOP didn't post that). Is it good for the community? Probably not. Is it a "normal" part of the community? Probably not (disclaimer for any GGs or SOs who happen to wander in here thinking that their husband or BF does this when they dress...in this forum it isn't likely) What to do about it? Stand up, come out and talk to your SO BEFORE they wander into this forum and see what's in the public areas.

This video is pretty much the opposite of what I like to do when I go out dressed but if this person likes that I'm not gonna judge. The stripper heels during the daytime are gonna stand out no matter who wears them and she pretty much seems overdressed for where she's at.

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Originally Posted by aprilgirl

Laura, you have to admit that the subject's primary goal WAS to be noticed, making your example not so perfect. In fact, it didn't prove anything. They had no more intention of blending in as a woman than the man on the moon does.

I just feel that it has no place in the primary forum, a section that ANYONE can access. Imagine a s/o searching for answers, having recently learned a loved one's interests, then stumbling across that thread this morning. Why plant that gawker's view visual in their head, instead of someone that made an earnest effort to present themselves in a respectable manner? Sure, they'll get noticed too, if anyone cares to give them a second thought or glance, but their more likely to be treated respectfully in return.

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Um, have you looked at a lot of these YouTube videos of *others* filming themselves out & about? FWIW, I've watched a ton. And trust me when I say that not everyone is after the "blending" look -- or even know what that is or how to go about that, for that matter. And not all of those are exhibitionists, of fetishists, or whatever. They simply think they're dressing perfectly fine. But they're also dressing (& moving & behaving, etc.) in a way that will, in reality, probably garner more looks & attention than perhaps necessary or desired.


*Why* are they filming? I'm guessing all sorts of reasons. Why does *anyone* -- CD'er or otherwise -- ever film stuff & take photos? :strugglin


As for that particular video not belonging here, that's up to those who run this site. If they want to remove it, that's fine with me. Personally, I think it's a perfectly acceptable educational tool to be used in all kinds of ways. Will some see it as too blatant or extreme or obvious or the wrong kind of example? I suppose. But again, feel free to check out any of the other videos (both good & bad) out there. Many will show something similar (in terms of negative reactions from others) -- but perhaps just not as dense & compact & impactful as the video I shared. And of course you're more than welcome to share what you find approving. :)


And your argument of an SO searching for answers? Come on. You realize there's a *lot* "worse" out there on Google, right? Stuff that they perhaps have already seen during their research so far. Just making sure, here. :)

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Originally Posted by laurababe

Zooey, still confused what your solution is, then. To take her camera & smash it? To have people stop filming in public? Yeah, that will go over real well. I believe some countries already follow that practice... Care to move there? Thought not.

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Did I say there's a solution? No, and of course you don't smash their camera. What you can and should do, IMO, is not pretend like really inappropriate shit is suddenly acceptable just because your particular minority group is the one doing it. It doesn't hurt you to be upfront about when your "community" or a member thereof is full of shit; it helps you, by way of building trust.

Just to clarify again... The problem here is not what they're wearing. That's just one component of a much larger issue here.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

I still say it has a very STRONG sexual component (and thank gawd the WrOP didn't post that). Is it good for the community? Probably not. Is it a "normal" part of the community? Probably not (disclaimer for any GGs or SOs who happen to wander in here thinking that their husband or BF does this when they dress...in this forum it isn't likely)

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I think the fantasy and the energy underlying this exercise is a significantly more regular part of the CD community than some folks would like to believe. The only difference this and a zillion other examples here is that it's on video and in public.

two things jumped out at me. too tall to wear high heals and not get noticed as a man and walking like a man when presenting as a woman. i spent hundreds of hours at 3 in the morning in my basement while the family slept recording myself in all kinds of dress; walking, standing, sitting etc., mostly to see myself as a woman. but it then became a learning process watching the recordings over and over and teaching myself what to do and not to do to be as feminine as possible in the most natural way. (which I believe when you put in the effort you feel even better when presenting as a woman). My point is if you want to blend in at all it takes lots of practice, but if you don't care, be like the "guy" in the video...whatever floats your boat...the only problem with that is the ones who make no effort to blend in tend to make all crossdressers more of a freak show than we admittedly already are.

A GG in that outfit would get similar stares given the environment. One thing I noticed right off: no purse. That is a dead giveaway.

Wow you look great, I could never do that!

Judy, that's not me! :)

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

The whole concept is interesting, and I want to do it myself, but the logistics of it all make it difficult.

You would either need a wingman with a camera, or an expensive wearable camera(which would only capture point of view) or finding creative places to plant your camera down, but the downside with that is that its stationary and you are limited to where you can go. I suppose at a store you could place your camera on a shelf and let it record for a bit. Or like I saw in one video, place the camera on the dashboard of your car and have it point to where you will go to.

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Anyway, I wanted to reply to this.

If one wanted to record themselves for analysis or whatever (and there's nothing wrong with that, IMO), you could always use the top seat portion of your shopping cart while at like Target or a grocery store or whatever. That way, you can hide & position the camera, and even position your cart. I've seen this done before with a CD'er, as well as stuff like prank videos (but I suppose the latter are a no-no, too, since they are attempting to solicit reactions, while some get a kick out of it *and* potentially make money off it? Shame on you, Allen & Peter Funt! ;) ).


Using a wing-(wo)man might not always be the best idea, for the simple fact that someone else is around, and might skew any kind of authentic & objective results.

Gee April, maybe we should ban a lot of the threads in the general forum section to protect those innocent and helpless SO's. You know, hide the truth from newbies. They are adults and need to understand the breadth and depth of all this. With knowledge comes better understanding. The Admins/Mods have said if a thread follows the rules it can be posted.

Regarding the self video. Each to their own. Some may not like what she did, others, like me, don't really care and see no reason to make a big deal of it. However, it always amazes me that people here looking for acceptance and tolerance have so much trouble giving it to others, especially when many of those who don't like it have never been out of their own closet, or only out to very safe places.

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Originally Posted by laurababe

...I see a lot of people here say, "Nobody notices!" and "Nobody cares!" Well, here's a perfect & very blatant example of that *not* being the case....

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Bad example and this video actually disproves your point. First of all, it is the POV of a cross dresser who thinks no one notices. That's just wishful thinking. No cross dressers are passing as a genetic woman. People notice but usually don't stare, particularly if you are dressed appropriately.

As for "no one cares" look at this video. This person is dressed like a street walker from 1985 and NO ONE says anything, approaches him nor does anything more than stare. If someone dressed like a trollop in B.K in the afternoon gets nothing more than a stare, I'd have to state that is absolute evidence of "not caring."

So we agree that this video doesn't represent MOST cross dressers, maybe even marginalizes cross dressers?
So we agree there are better videos that better represents cross dressers?
How many vanillas will see it if they aren't searching for it?
Have we, by discussion, made it more of an issue THAN ANY of the BK customers had?
Why have some of us CHOSEN to be offended, when NONE of those directly involved were?

Yes, Jennifer, some CD'ers certainly are a bit delusional sometimes, aren't they. ;)


Just because someone doesn't say or do anything to the CD'er via a boisterous confrontation at that moment, now means they simply don't care? LOL

(BTW, that does happen sometimes, FYI. I've been there. And so have others. It's real, my friend.)


Anyway, did we even watch the same video, here? :laughing:

People there cared. If that's not evident to anyone, perhaps they might want to look into this whole social thingy a bit more? :strugglin


Anyway, it always amazes me that when even providing evidence, some still refuse to see it.

And speaking of that, just so you know, *I* was once "fooled" by a CD'er, in the flesh. Repeat after me: I. Thought. She. Was. A. Real. GG.

So, yes, not that it makes a difference either way, really, but some are passing just fine sometimes. And now it looks like you can stop saying that. Yay! :)



Allie,

The more I think about this particular video & individual, the more I realize this is kind of a complex & very gray issue, IMO. There's a lot at play here, and I don't believe there's one correct "answer." But many of those who have posted have brought up a lot of interesting things & excellent points, so many thanks for that!


And now, I must watch some more videos, LOL...

Rachel,
I wouldn't mind betting many of us have taken a video dressed like that but in the privacy of our home, I know I have when I borrowed a very short leather skirt.

As for the walk, I commented about GGs attempting it, I saw it first hand on my last cruise, some of the younger passengers were wearing 5"+ heels they didn't walk as well as the person in the video, especially on the sweeping stair case, the only difference is there were quite a few guys waiting on the edge of their seats to catch them if they did trip, that's something a CDer might not be so fortunate about. He would probably be face down hoping the forms were still intact.

While Lorileah said no rules had been broken maybe it should have been posted in the media section. Lets be totally honest it was done for the thrill factor to see how much attention could be drawn. A GG would have attracted as much attention but possibly have not got the WTF looks when they realised it was a guy. I still find it amusing at the check out when the circle became wider when they realised what was going on.

Ok going back to other point it could have been part of a Candid Camera stunt and the public were asked after if they had any objections appearing in the video.

"it could have been part of a Candid Camera stunt and the public were asked after if they had any objections appearing in the video. "

I take photos and videos. Lots of photos and videos, especially when I'm travelling. And I'll often post them to Facebook. I don't wait until other people have cleared out of the shot and I don't blur their faces. I don't ask them to sign releases.

Anyone who thinks they have a right to not be photographed while out in public is hopelessly naïve. You can't go to the bank, shop in a store or pump gas without being photographed or recorded on video. If you are stopped by the police, you are on video. Many private citizens now have "dash cams" in their cars and record everything in front of them while driving.

You may not like it but you better learn to live with it.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Zooey

I'm not sure I've ever seen a group of people miss the point so spectacularly.

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Perhaps it's you who have missed the point. Perhaps the group of people sees this differently than you do.

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Originally Posted by Teresa

...Ok going back to other point it could have been part of a Candid Camera stunt and the public were asked after if they had any objections appearing in the video.

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Sure Teresa, it COULD HAVE been that. I could have been a lot of things, social experiment, plot to overthrow the world, audition tape for Survivor, but we all know it is none of those things. It's a "proof" video of an exhibitionist cross dresser out in the real world.

Lastly, I want to add a rebuttal to the "he can dress any way he wants" crowd. Well, of course he can. We all can. We can also criticize his attire just as freely. If anyone here saw a woman dressed like that, no one would defend her. Anyone dressed that ridiculously opens themselves to wide criticism. And the cost of posting such nonsense as this video is taking that criticism. Does he represent cross dressers in general? Clearly no. BUT... I can promise you that his visual is exactly what the normals think is a cross dresser. When you reenforce one bad stereotype, you undo hundreds of positive interactions. That's just human nature.

Mixed messages on the forum.

"OK, all you crossdressers must get out of your closet for the cause of greater public acceptance. Strength in numbers! "
"Oh no, not YOU! Get back into the closet. I don't like how you're dressed."

Video subject was well-behaved. Get over it.

So Nicole I am guessing by your logic you would have been completely OK with the guy who came in wearing a swimsuit bikini when I was working at Victoria's Secret 8 years ago?

Dolove, you've said that you're a Libertarian right? What about Freedom to dress as one likes as long as it doesn't hurt others? The person in this video isn't infringing on anyone's rights.

Ressie, I don't think anyone in this thread is talking about PROSECUTING someone who is not dressed appropriately.

The argument is more of, are you dressing in a way that will enforce(or reinforce) negative public opinions of crossdressers.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Perhaps it's you who have missed the point. Perhaps the group of people sees this differently than you do.

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i wouldn't know, because next to nobody has actually addressed the point I've been making. They keep talking about the implications of appropriate or inappropriate dress, and I'm not talking about their clothes. I'm talking about what they did. This is not a video of your group on vacation that happened to catch some people in the background. This is sexual exhibitionism, with the people in the background being used as unconsenting props in this person's fantasy.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Mixed messages on the forum.

"OK, all you crossdressers must get out of your closet for the cause of greater public acceptance. Strength in numbers! "
"Oh no, not YOU! Get back into the closet. I don't like how you're dressed."

Video subject was well-behaved. Get over it.

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Again, I don't care how they're dressed. I care about what they were doing. Also, at least for me, you do need to get out for greater acceptance. YOURS though; not mine.

Personally, I don't give a shit what CDs wear in public, because (as is no secret by this point) I believe that gender non-conformance is just fine, I don't believe we are the same, and I don't believe you should reflect positively or negatively on me and my community. That's something I gladly explain to cis people any time the question comes up, so if that makes me truscum/tru trans/transmedicalist/transexual separatist or any of a host of other words that are supposed to be insults, you'll find I don't take them as such.

So, Zooey, I got your original point and wonder do you also post the same comments about trans women and cis women who do the same, and they all do the same thing in various degrees of exhibitionism? Sexual exhibitionism to one may not be that for someone else. Anyway, what one CD did has been done by many others across the gender spectrum. Just look on uTube. Why make such a big deal about this one, or any of them? I still don't get it. We see all kinds of bizarreness in real life all over the world. We see it, maybe shake our heads or laugh and make a comment to those with us, then we forget it and move on. Why do we dwell on it so much here? Contrary to what so many say here, it really does not affect us in the big picture, and we shouldn't let it either.

He's portraying a women but I must say he has pretty big b**ls to do what he's doing. I have to give him credit there, skimpy outfit or not.

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Originally Posted by Zooey

I'm talking about what they did. This is not a video of your group on vacation that happened to catch some people in the background. This is sexual exhibitionism, with the people in the background being used as unconsenting props in this person's fantasy.

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Do you feel it would be equally as wrong if they weren't filming it?

No. I would still think it is creepy and inappropriate, but I think when you add the element of video, it becomes a different sort of invasive.

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Originally Posted by Maria 60

He's portraying a women but I must say he has pretty big b**ls to do what he's doing. I have to give him credit there, skimpy outfit or not.

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Ouch! I found it hard to watch. That being said, I want to blend when out, NOT stand out and have people stare. Maybe she had a devil-may-care attitude and wanted people to stare. Someone's forum signature block says it best: 'It takes a real man to wear a dress'.

Omg, this video sent my anxiety level into the stratosphere.

mhh generally i wouldnt comment on such a thread, but as a german the problem is not how she/he dresses, but where this person chose to do it. it is a rather big ( restingplace i think) near a pretty important (highway) area, at least from what i can see on the video. on these areas there will be prostiution (which btw is legal) and the outfit is exactly what they would wear. so even if the ppl in the video would not see the face and just the back, the first word in there minds would be hooker considering where they are.

an other thing, i thought the reactions were rather civilized, no?

Nashmau

Interesting - thanks for reminding me about the legality of prostitution in Germany. I'd totally forgotten about that.

So does this video take a suddenly different slant? Is the girl in question... um... projecting and advertising "A rather niche special interest service"?

And the general public's reactions were civilized. Exactly what Id expect in Germany. I havent been there for a few years... but I do get to travel around the EU a fair bit. Germany is a great country with great people. It's just like England... with fewer social issues.

A lot of the comments on the youtube comments section are commending her for her bravery. Although others reflect the general consensus here.

This really struck a cord with me. Because I took a photo of myself out in public last year one nite on Fremont Street in Vegas. I placed the camera on a closed street stand and took a timer photo of myself. Fremont street, for those that don't know, is a walking only street with enormous amounts of people curb to curb every nite. When the lite shows, live entertainment, and buskers r everywhere.

It wasn't until I saw the photo back home that I noticed the shocked, etc. expressions on the faces of those watching me caught on camera. :eek:

They looked very much like the vanillas in that video. And, that's the main reason I don't go to Burger Kings, Macy's, or any other vanilla day time venues dressed. Because that is how people look at me no matter how conservatively I'm dressed!:sad:

Since some will say I was dressed like a hooker? Well it WAS Vegas. Here's the photo, u can decide for yourself.
Attachment 268804

Well very interesting The outfit is great if your 16 and not a CD. Definitely not blending or passing. but if you are having a good time have at it. That seemed to be the attitude of all so great that is how it should be

Yes Sherry, certainly it is because of the clothes, what else could be the reason?...

I suppose the anti video have a point,

My pop used to always say, "gay men being normalised will encourage men getting married to each other or kissing in public, and society as we know it will slide on down hill very rapidly"........and now we even have cross dressers roaming the streets, what's next, polygamy, men marring their pet dogs, and all that really bad stuff
The world is doomed.....DOOMED!!!

or maybe not so much?

Sherry,
The reactions aren't unexpected, seeing Cders in Vegas may happen more than most places but don't forget what you're wearing over the top, not many people have seen molded parts like that, the stares may be partly because they think it's a stunt, some may wonder what gender is wearing it and why .

I'm not condemning what you did just making an observation from the public point of view .

Here are my observations about that video:
The image stabilization on her phone is AMAZING!
The people in the video did not mind walking up close just to take a look. I've not encountered such bold civilians.
Standing in line like that for so long would have been very stressful for me!
Did you see the two women at the exit when she went out? Woman A appears to have carefully watched the crossdresser as she walked away. However, woman B never turns around. Woman A did not feel the need to tell woman B.
There were a lot of BMWs in the parking lot, I think.
Did you see the top she was wearing. It looked like a denim top or jacket over another top with shadows and gathering. It's all painted on to a simple pull-over top. I was deceived until I saw the close-up at the end.

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Originally Posted by Zooey

i wouldn't know, because next to nobody has actually addressed the point I've been making. They keep talking about the implications of appropriate or inappropriate dress, and I'm not talking about their clothes. I'm talking about what they did. This is not a video of your group on vacation that happened to catch some people in the background. This is sexual exhibitionism, with the people in the background being used as unconsenting props in this person's fantasy............

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I addressed that point in post #64:

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Anyone who thinks they have a right to not be photographed while out in public is hopelessly naïve. You can't go to the bank, shop in a store or pump gas without being photographed or recorded on video. If you are stopped by the police, you are on video. Many private citizens now have "dash cams" in their cars and record everything in front of them while driving.

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Sherry, you're making other CDs look bad ;) and I love it

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Originally Posted by Teresa

While Lorileah said no rules had been broken maybe it should have been posted in the media section.

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It isn't TG news and while it is from YouTube it is used as reference to a discussion (no different than posting videos or photos from websites in the Clothing section. After further review the ruling stands

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Originally Posted by Nashmau

an other thing, i thought the reactions were rather civilized, no?

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Setting aside the main point of this thread there's one thing about this video that should perhaps be noted. Even though blending in no way shape or form takes place there weren't any pitchforks or burning stakes. Nashmau makes a valid point that no-one reacted with any form of abuse. Granted we don't know what's is their heads.......

Hi Laura:hugs:, I thought it was another one of , ( THE PEOPLE of WAL*MART ) Videos...:daydreaming:...

Isn't anyone worried that she went to burger king? That's the part I was not in touch with:) outside of that...I would say dressing down a bit would make it ok....but I would be ok with this

She had to go someplace. Why not Burger King?

McDonalds have nicer coffee than BK plus really nice sour dough sandwitches with chicken & Avo :)

I've never been to Germany so I haven't a clue why Burger King. And no, it doesn't bother me. I watched another of her vids where she's walking more in town. Maybe she gets the camera out randomly when out en femme.

If you can't pass and she doesn't, stay home.

Thanks for all your support Deebra. So looks is all important and the hell with letting be themselves, and of course you are the final judge into who looks good or does not, right?

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Originally Posted by Rachelakld

McDonalds have nicer coffee than BK plus really nice sour dough sandwitches with chicken & Avo :)

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Given the choice, I would choose McDonalds over Burger King but sometimes Burger King is more convenient.

Regardless, enough people like Burger King to keep it in business.