"The Talk" happened this morning

What worked for me/us was to let it lie for a while and demonstrate that nothing has really changed. Mine has said that regardless of how i feel now, she is unsure about our future together. her vision of what that looked liked has changed. My reply to her is I'm willing to compromise to an extent, as losing her would make my life suboptimal.

Both of you are likely going to have to live with a small amount of doubt in her mind as to your possible end state. My feedback to my wife is no one is guaranteed tomorrow, and a multitude of horrible unforeseen stuff could happen, so live for today and plan for a tomorrow.

Hi Gretchen:hugs:, Thanks for your story and the updates,
I guess that the ball is in her court now, Lets hope that it all works out for both of you.

Please do keep us advised.>Orchid

Sounds good. Just remember to keep it slow for a little bit.

Great advice from everyone. My wife has had various stages of acceptance and taken steps both forward and back. I'm not always great, but I've found that if you can keep her happy otherwise, and keep her self confidence high it can help. At the end of the day we have to take it at her pace if we have any hope of gaining any more acceptance from her.
This can be hard, especially when you want to share more. It can be very difficult to feel like you can't entirely be yourself around the one person you may feel the most comfortable with. Good luck!

It is time for me to retreat from it all and concentrate my time to try to rebuild the trust I wasted away

I thank all for their warm wishes and the excellent advice based upon their valuable past experiences

Best wishes to all
G

Gretchen,

You are in my loving thoughts and prayers. Know that when the times are difficult that we care about you and are hoping that things work out for the best. You can count on our sisterhood to always be here if you should need to vent or a shoulder to cry on. And if there should come great joy in rebuilding of you relationship with your wife please remember to share that with us as well. Your joy is our joy, your sorrows are our sorrows Sisters forever.

Rachel

Gretchen,
I know I couldn't purge, it would be lying to myself, I'm not sure if my wife would expect me to. They may be just clothes but they are part of a deep need which I can't lie about and deprive for any length of time. I hope that works out for you with your wife, the problem is replacing them is going to be far tougher .Maybe you should have told her they have gone into store to calm the situation down .

Wow your story sounds similar to mine.
At the start Your wife seemed to be accepting but now things have changed.

I've been married for over 35 years, last year I told my wife I wanted to try on a dress which didn't go well so I stayed in the closet.
Well two months ago I left my 4" red pumps out, she freaked out but seemed to get over it in three weeks.
Then three weeks ago I left a hair brush out and she said she wants to know everything

It wasn't easy but I told her 90%.
That I started at about 5 from my sister dressing me up.
It continued up through my teens and about 5 years of our marriage and stopped as our children grew up and then came back.

She said her whole is ruined and that I'm a total stranger to her and of course she called me every CD name in the book.
That we'll stay together for the kids but as friends only and never be intimate again.

Then she gave me the "silent treatment" for over a week!

For awhile I thought all was lost.

They say time heals all wounds.
They also say you can never figure women out.
I won't say exactly what she said but today she said she ready for intimacy and last night we cuddled.

I hope things work out for you, I think they will.

I didn't PURG, I put everything in storage.

Gretchen

My wife first found out (the wrong way, like yours), just before I was heading out of town. In fact, she had come home from church early (not feeling well) and caught me packing a few bras in my suitcase.

I was afraid that she might go on a search and destroy (literally) while I was out of town, so I quickly got a storage locker in secret and moved most of my girl stuff (which constituted a few small boxes) into the storage locker. I even left some clothes that she could find and destroy as a "sacrifice" the let her think she got it all. Not saying I wouldn't have purged anyhow, but at least I would buy some time so that we could talk about it together rationally. Anyhow, she didn't search and destroy, at least I don't think so, although some of my stuff did go missing. She never said that she did do a search and destroy and I never did ask. I just assumed that I lost it somehow on the way to the storage locker.

I never did give up that storage locker and I still use it for overflow from the house.

If my wife were to give me an ultimatum today, (either her or the crossdressing), she might not get the response she was hoping for. And if she did a search and destroy of what she found around the house, there's a good chance that it would be the tipping point in our relationship for me. Everybody has to make their own decision based on keeping themselves sane and their wife happy.

If you pay cash for the locker space, and don't use your home address, you can keep the locker space secret.

I don't believe Gretchen will be successful in fixing anything ! In her case,it is gender issues,not clothing issues. When we can't have the freedom to express ourselves,the meltdowns occur.

Hi Grechin, it sounds like you are both going through the first stages of discovery. I would not do anything harsh and would just keep opening up to the wife. Purging is a bad idea, you will be back, we all do. I have never heard of anyone purging and not regretting it. I know this hurts , I have been through this, but you will come out of the other side. I would also ask her if she wants to go to couples therapy especially with a gender therapist.

I know the hiding was bad, most of us have been there. You did it , its over, now its what you do next..

Good luck Trisha

Gretchen

I understand what you're going through. I don't think purging is the answer. You feel guilty for violating her trust (just like I did with my wife) but the thing is, it's out there now. You can't erase the past. Stow it away, don't look at it for a while, whatever, but getting rid of the clothes won't change the past. In fact, if she thinks you've given it up and you start again, that will seem like a greater violation of her trust.

Super post, Gretchen! I still haven't had "The Talk" yet but hope to have the talk in the near future. She knows about my cross dressing and has come to accept it with some pretty stringent limits which I have no problem whatsoever adhering to.

I can't wait to have "The Talk" with that gorgeous redhead I have been married to for a very long time. I need to cover all of the details, have her understand everything you have told your wife about the need to cross dress which has nothing to do with having a sexual attraction for anyone other than her.

I would love to hear more details of all you covered in the talk. I know that would take a ton of typing and maybe you could cover it over a period of several posts.

"The Talk" is the next thing I want to have to help my wife feel more comfortable with my desire to cross dress.

That's it for now and thanks for sharing for story Gretchen.....Sincerely Scarlett

Gretchen -- Very sorry to read how this is playing out. Historically that choice doesn't have a good track record but it's your choice to make, of course, and I sincerely hope it works out for you. We'll keep a light on for you.

Gretchen,

I am sorry for your situation, but I am not too surprised. It seems to have followed a very well known and predictable path, and the next steps are quite predictable too.

It will seem to you at this stage, that the best solution is to simply give up, roll over and restore the world to what it was before. That way everything is good again and you move forward with your wife as if nothing happened.

But .. there are a couple of things wrong with that assumption unfortunately.
For one, the bell cannot be un-rung. The damage is already done, so to speak. No matter what you do next, your wife now know a lot more than she did before and she cannot un-know that.
The other thing is that you cannot just un-do something that is a part of your core. You cannot just decide to un-want to do these things.

If you want to fix the world by denying your need, then you may or may not be able to do that. I dont know you and dont know how strong and stubborn you are. If you are strong enough, and stubborn enough, you might be able to simply stop this and thereby satisfy your wifes need for you to not crossdress.

But remember this, while you can chose to not act on the feelings and desires, you can not just chose to not have the feelings and desires.
All depending on how deep the T* rabbit hole is for you, you may be able to control it and live a fine and full life, or it will eventually tear you apart.

My advise to you is to carefully consider your next move. Dont let emotion drive you to chose the apparent easy solution. You will very likely later find that it was not the easy solution anyway. I dont care if you purge or not, it doesnt really have any effect on you, but it could send a very wrong signal to your wife. She might think you are now "Cured".

Be very careful not to promise something you cannot keep. Be careful not to try and invent explanations or reasons for why you feel what you do.

- Suzie

Dear Gretchen,

I am so sorry to hear about this. I know when we talked at Keystone you described this as one of your biggest fears. Just know that my wife and I went through a very similar set of phases when I first came out to her (apparent initial acceptance, then lots of yelling and crying the next day, and serious concerns about a possible divorce over the ensuing weeks). As you know, my wife and I are still going strong 12 years later, and she accepts my CDing, as long as I'm not in her face with it. I'm not going to say it will get better, because I can't see the future. But I can say that there is hope. I would urge you not to purge, but perhaps put everything in a storage locker so it is not there to add to your pain right now, but is available if things do turn around for you.

Wishing you all the best. A giant hug from me to you and your wife.

Jamie

JamieG, your advise is very wise!!! I hope that Gretch will follow it and that things get better for her like it did for you!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GretchenJ

...so it's all in the next trash delivery.

---

If one is going to go that route: At the very least, donate what you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by laurababe

If one is going to go that route: At the very least, donate what you can.

---

.. that is what I exactly what I did this afternoon, if it brings some form of positivity to someone else, it will make me extremely happy!

Good on you, Gretchen! :thumbsup:



Anyway, I don't necessarily find purging to be such a bad thing. It has its benefits, IMO.


For one, it is quite a cathartic experience, in its own right. And I believe going through that can play an important role in all this.


A second, is that should one eventually return to it, well, it provides a clean slate for one to start fresh. It enables one to take a better look at how this all fits into one's life, as they begin to rebuild their wardrobe & what-not. I actually shudder to think what things would be like had I never purged, even once, in my life.

Yes, quitting is easy -- I've done it multiple times. :devil:



Listen, when it comes to Nature, there's nothing wrong with a bit of destruction. Believe it or not, a forest fire, for example, can actually be a *good* thing for the health, vibrancy & longevity of that forest.

Life can be weird like that sometimes. :)

I actually think purging has its place too in some situations, but you have to consider what it means.
As I said earlier, purging does not make the desire or need go away, but it might be perceived as the "proof" to a wife/gf that Hubby will never do this naughty thing again. That is a danger because it means no such thing.

In your situation Gretchen, the purge can however help you if you really want to make a serious effort to try and stop acting on the desire and need. It does not make it impossible to dress because you can always get to some clothes somehow, but it will at least make it a little more difficult and you wont as easily get to see "Gretchen" in the mirror.

If it is at all possible, I think it would be good if you talk to your wife and explain that this is more than just having your own things. It is not solved with donating all your stuf, it takes a much bigger effort to not think about it and it can be very difficult to not drop back into it again.

It is not unlikely that you may have some reactions to this, which she might notice, and she needs to be prepared for that. And ... so do you.

Hugs
Suzie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suzie Petersen

I actually think purging has its place too in some situations, but you have to consider what it means.
As I said earlier, purging does not make the desire or need go away, but it might be perceived as the "proof" to a wife/gf that Hubby will never do this naughty thing again. That is a danger because it means no such thing.

In your situation Gretchen, the purge can however help you if you really want to make a serious effort to try and stop acting on the desire and need. It does not make it impossible to dress because you can always get to some clothes somehow, but it will at least make it a little more difficult and you wont as easily get to see "Gretchen" in the mirror.

If it is at all possible, I think it would be good if you talk to your wife and explain that this is more than just having your own things. It is not solved with donating all your stuf, it takes a much bigger effort to not think about it and it can be very difficult to not drop back into it again.

It is not unlikely that you may have some reactions to this, which she might notice, and she needs to be prepared for that. And ... so do you.

Hugs
Suzie

---

Suzie,

thanks - this is how I am seeing things at the moment, you stated it much more distinctly than I could. And yes, I do want to make a serious effort for all involved !

Gretchen, whatever you decide to do you have our love, thoughts and best wishes, I am sure you will emerge from this tough time stronger and better. Bec xxx

I hope that you can work this out so both of you are happy! I think that communication will be the key. The reality is that there is no right answer or correct way to go about it -- the two of you just have to find your path forward.

Gretchen,

Good for you. It is not going to be easy, but there is a path through this.
It is easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for one self, and that is one of the possible reactions I am talking about. It would be good if you can avoid that since it just makes it all more difficult.

Talk to your wife and make sure she knows you love her! At some point later on, she might better understand what this all means.

Hugs
Suzie

Take it slow and talk to her, explain how you feel, why you didn't tell her before, get her to tell you all her concerns and worries and don't give her answers you think she wants to hear but be honest with her.

Gretchen,

So sorry to hear that it all went south after such a hopeful beginning. I think you should take it slow for awhile, be very neutral, and let the dust settle. Time helps, but don't wait too long. Give it some time and then make sure you let her know that what has happened hurts you deeply and hurting her is the biggest hurt. Be totally willing to find a middle ground. There is lots of middle ground, but right now I suspect both of you are emotionally spinning like two tops. Give it some time.

When I came out in 2012 and told my wife what I had realized it was like a rubber band stretched to its limit around our home. You could bounce a ball off the tension in the air. But when I told her I was going to seek therapy at the local gender identity center it eased a bit. I mentioned to her that they also provide help for loved ones. She decided to go and went a few times to learn the basics. I went weekly for four months during which time it was very difficult for both of us. I presented no expectations for her that I thought she should meet. After 44 years of marriage and mostly a happy one neither of us wanted to end anything, but confusion and hurt came in bushels. We worked through it and made adjustments and came to agreements and developed a pretty good DADT policy. I wasn't sure I wanted to go full public anyway. Like me, you are non-binary or gender fluid or whatever you want to call it. Live in that middle ground internally, but outwardly be a good husband and stick to the agreements you make. Show her what your femininity can do for the relationship by being a bit more of a "housewife" with cooking, cleaning, etc. and, most of all, sensitivity, compassion, sympathy, and empathy. Keep it real and not artificially over doing it. But, at the same time, make sure you are true to yourself emotionally. She expects a man and probably feels a lot of loss of the man she loves. Show her that he is still there, but now there can be something added. Don't even talk about dressing or your gender, but show her the woman in you in actions and behavior that are added to the masculine rather than replacing the masculine.

I agree with others that you have gender issues and it is not just about the clothes. Clothes express the gender but they are not the gender. Behavior is the gender. So bring out the feminine, but also display a good deal of masculine as well. Talk about feelings, but not feelings about your gender. Show her your emotional side loud and clear without being aggressive with it. Remember, women are much more about relationships than appearance. Relationships and caring is a lot of what femininity is about. Femininity is a mindset directed toward caring and helpfulness.

Like others have said, we all love you and respect you. You have added a good deal, especially with the non-binary forum. It is a rough time, but if you two really have the feelings you have talked about having, I believe you two can work it out. It will take time and a lot of effort, but in the end it will likely be better. My wife and I are closer now than ever and it took almost 3 years after the revelation to achieve it. She knows I still dress in private once in awhile and I gently update her once in awhile. She mostly appreciates it, but she has no desire in seeing me dressed. That's OK. I am much more into the behavior now rather than the expression in clothes. It is hard work, but if you really love her and she really loves you a good resolution is entirely possible.

Gretchen

Hi Gretchen,
What I can offer is to put this in the overall context of negotiation- you are starting far apart, with limited understanding of each other, and fixed positions in conflict.

Good negotiators will start off admitting all that, and then let that be a peaceful moment of mutual recognition - that you are still standing there, willing to see what you can do together. This can happen when you both realize there is a lot of information to share before reaching any decisions.

Purging is an offer on your part to symbolize something, for example, that you don't value your clothes more than your wife, and you can accompany that noble act of good faith by saying that the clothes are like the words you want to use to tell about yourself. All people, and of course married couples, want and need to know each other. My wife and I have been talking about how ridiculous it is that after 31 years tomorrow, we still don't know so much about each other, and this is not a one-sided thing nor limited to my gender issues.

You can confidently say that more fully knowing each other may reveal more opportunities than you can see right now, and should she say, NEVER!!!!- it is still just a negotiation- as our new President likes to say. But it is- it is her way to respond to your offer. And the game is never over till someone actually walks out, and then it is not over either, because they can be wishing to be called back, to have the other person [and let it be you] be the one who can manage the exploding feelings and keep their eyes on the prize- which is a close, loving, and supportive partnership.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GretchenJ

After many many years my wife found an article of clothing that I could not explain away, she calmly called me upstairs and thus began the talk.

There was no yelling, and the only tears came from me, explaining to her my fear of not disclosing this to her before.

The only questions from her was am I having an affair, !

---

You got lucky that she was calm, especially with the thought you may be having an affair.
I've said it a million times before, Tell a prospective SO from the start, before everyone is super emotionally involved, because eventually, you will get caught!!!

GretchenJ, it was nice to meet you at Keystone. I, too, am left to wonder how you made it to Keystone without her knowledge. i remember your concern about your wife finding out when we talked. Good thing that it is turning out much better than you had probably expected. Everyone is offering good advice. Hope everything stays positive for you as you go down this road with your wife.

Hi all,

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all my friends here who have provided me with support, sympathy and coping measures as me and my SO navigate through this. After a month, and I know this will now require constant communication and affirmations in the future to both her fears of the future and my violation of her trust and her ability to acceptance, I can tell you that our marriage and our relationship, is not only ok, but stronger.

Thank you all for the many PM I have received, it is assuring that I have many acquaintances I have made her that I consider true friends!

That is an inspiration!!! :)

Fantastic news! You must be thrilled.

So happy for you, I hope things continue to improve.

What wonderful news. Back when I came out to my wife, it was a struggle for quite awhile. After we came to an understanding our marital relationship improved in many ways. It changed in its character over time, but there is a greater appreciation of each other. So long as nobody gets terribly selfish in it all and communication remains open growth and development of the relationship in new ways will follow.

Gretchen,
You have been around long enough to know what to do, I wish you well and the last line in your post says it all.