I agree Krisi.
I guess to some CDs its all a game or a quirky thing they do for entertainment and don't really understand how it is in real life.
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I agree Krisi.
I guess to some CDs its all a game or a quirky thing they do for entertainment and don't really understand how it is in real life.
A lot of absolute opinions. "This would NEVER happen".
People are all different. We're a diverse bunch with many different feelings and motives. I personally wouldn't dismiss what I can't understand. Anything is possible.
No. I am straight.
No, can't say as I have.
I think for some people they like to dress like a woman woman because it makes them feel more like a woman which is what they like. Take it a step further and they want to have sex like a woman so that means having it with a man. They probably take it further and only want the sexual position s the woman takes when they do this. All for the "feeling like a woman " experience. Just a guess on my part.
Wouldn't that hypothesis kind of run into the ground, when it's widely known that some women only have sex with other women? So the 'step further' isn't needed to fulfill the first feeling at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbs
I'm in gender therapy. Latest pinpoint is that I am transgender but probably not binary. I've been attracted to men when dressed. If you subscribe to the concept of two spirited people, you could say I am both a straight man and a straight woman at the same time. Need an aspirin?
I really have no clue if I am binary non binary and I really don't care or feel I need a label.
Transgender female non transitional and a gay male all rolled into one.Just a mutt I guess.
No not really but I do hit on and it's fun. But that's it.
I'm inclined to agree with those that say you're either attracted to men or you're not. Perhaps your fantasizing or curious, and that's fine, but that's not the same as being attracted to males. Perhaps the dressing has let you bring out feelings you have suppressed.
Perhaps if you had past experiences with men it would make you more aware of an attraction to men, or for that matter confirmed that you aren't attracted to them. I just don't think the clothes change what your basic attractions are.
I agree with doc here. I am not interested in men in any way. just because you dress, your sexual tendencies do not change. I have been hit on, which is somewhat weird for me, but i made it quite clear that i am not interested. I told my wife about being hit on and she laughed her head off.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
Perhaps the dressing allows an expression of female sexuality and not bi-ness? You could say many CDers dress to "feel like" women. Perhaps some of them also want to "feel like" women sexually? If so, I think that may be harder to define than just saying they're bi. My point is, it's not the clothes, but perhaps, it's an inner expression that the clothes help facilitate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shayna
I think some need to remember they are men that dress in womens clothes you do not think like a woman, you have no idea what it feels like to be a woman and you never will more than likely. Claiming clothes cause you to think that way is not a rational thought process..
I am all for guys/girls CDing if you enjoy it and if it makes you feel more complete or if you are truly trans and need to make the outside match how you feel inside I get that.
I am not pointing fingers or making a broad generalization on any person or group just trying to make a point or reality that seems to never be mentioned here.
That somehow dressing in women's clothes changes your sexual preferences baffles me. Sorry, but I don't think you're a "straight guy". I dress in some very feminine clothes much of the time....but I'm still not interested in men in the slightest.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanniegirl
What Doc said.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
I can see how dressing up as a woman, can change your sexual preferences. Put on a bunch of biker clothes, and we'd feel like a biker. Put on a football uniform with pads and a helmet, and we'd feel like a football player.
Clothes, especially womens clothes, have a magical affect on some. It does me. Of course, to want a man, only when your dressed like a woman, IMO, tells me your at least BI regardless of how your dressed. But you ONLY want to venture into that territory when you're dressed.
What ever floats our boats, right? Sometimes I takes a sail to get us motivated. Some of us have 4 inboard motors with turbo's.
Yea, don't try telling that to an actual lesbian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot
Sorry, but I've been a biker and the clothes will not make you feel like a biker -- riding 10,000 miles a year makes you feel like a biker. I've played football and the clothes don't make you feel like a football player -- intense physical conditioning and hours and hours of practice drills and game days with full contact make you feel like a football player.Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleCD
The current model of human sexuality is that sexual preference is inborn and immutable. Clothing won't change it. But if you have the identity to go along with those clothes and sexuality that will allow a male attraction, then dressing up might well give yourself permission to feel it when dressed.
Whenever this topic recurs, I'm reminded, while reading through the responses, of Bubba listening to a group of astrophysicists discussing their area of expertise and thinking to himself, "I can't understand what they are talking about. They must be stupid." The problem is that many are trying force any expression of sexuality into the simplistic gay/bi/straight model and some things just don't fit so they they are reduced to invalidating the feelings they can't understand. The OP is as good an expression of autogynephilia (AGP) as you are going to get. AGP is neither gay, bi nor straight. When you understand AGP, you understand constructs like "bi when dressed," "male lesbian," and "I'm straight but...." AGP is proof that sexual orientation and gender identity are NOT separate things. Sexual orientation is not wholly inborn but can be shaped by things like imprinting and trauma. Once "set" it is most likely immutable. And yes I have experienced AGP in its various forms. One of my favorite AGP fantasies is of GGs with penises. Is that gay, bi or straight? I'm sooo confused. I dreamed that up when I was a teenager, long before I discovered futanaria. But my very first orgasm was from imagining myself dressed as a female having sex with dudes. What is important in that fantasy is not the dudes but the state of feminisation (emasculation.) If I were really gay or bi I would probably know it by now. In fact I would prefer being gay to AGP but since AGP is immutable, I'm stuck with it for the duration.
Hi Girls, love the subject.
I too am Hetro in drab.
But when I put on all of my Feminine Female finery, from Lingerie and Breast Forms to a cute wig, dress and heels, things change a bit.
I do not seek out male companionship, but IF the situation arose and he treated like a Girl, I can see myself being available.:o
I can identify some with Sometimes Miss, but not as deeply. Your terrible experiences as an abused child make me feel sick and sad. However, i had a father, who was deeply troubled, and he never wanted sons, my mom said. He wanted daughters only, but got one handicapped daughter, then twin sons, and four years later, me, who was not wanted. My dad tried to get an uncle to adopt me. I was at war with me dad much of my life, and never felt wanted. I know i did things that really hurt, him, too, and i tried to make up for that in his final six years, when i was helping care for him.. I am only attracted to certain type of women, and not attracted to men. BUT, when i get completely dolled up, to the nines, I do have strong feelings of wanting to be held and caressed by a man, but short of penetration. I actually met four different men over the years, but did not have penetration,. i di enjoy dancing around, modeling for them, letting them caress my legs, and "pretend" some. My dad always talked about being attracted, to tall, leggy women, and i was a tall, leggy son, with rather shapely legs. i always felt he might be admiring my legs. I believe a lot of my longings to be touched and caressed while dressed to the nines, comes from lack of love from my father. And it could also be that many gays and dressers and TS also had little love from their fathers. I am trying to overcome these strong feelings and urges, which can really get me into trouble, i do not need. The fantasies are usually far better, than the real acting them out! It can get one hurt, or killed. I am doing my own recovery work, and embracing my man side more, dressing far less, and dealing with painful deep issues. Meeting men as a woman is against my morals, too, and Higher Power. I did come to peace with my dad in his final several months, i believe, somewhat at least. Recovery from some things i s a lifetime thing.
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Yes, Amanda, I understand as I feel two spirited that way. Taken plenty of aspirin!
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Again, Amanda, is onto something. I always felt that being sexually attracted to women, made them afraid of me, and that women did not want sex , and disliked it. my sister never wanted a man , nor sex, nor kids. Many girls i tried to date, seemed to despise being wanted, so I felt like the male sex organ was hated by women! I found it myself being kind of effeminate and passive, as being aggressive turned women off to me! So, i find it easier to dress up, and enjoy men enjoying my photos dressed. Working on being more accepting of my maleness, and to be a gentle man women admire now, putting all the rejections behind me. I still get rejected most of the time, but i do have some women friends now. I still have to rid myself of "male shame", though. And society is down on maleness now bigtime, making it even tougher to win womens' trust.
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Well said LSS. I have the AGP thing.
With me it would not mater whether I was dressed or not, I have been with a few men and only once in anything Feminine, when I'm with a guy I get turned on and can't get enough of him, but once it is over I'm no longer interested in doing anything with him and it takes a few days before I can be with another man.
So I know I could never ever have a full on live in relationship with a guy, just not into men like that.
Give me a female partner full time any time, Just wish I could find one.
Not necessarily, we know some women like women but the "norm"is a woman with a man. ( I know, who is a crossdresser to say what is the norm, lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by sometimes_miss
Hmmm! I think we try to over simplify gender and sexuality. As I grew up learning from my sisters about clothes, dancing, and other girl things. I liked girls as a boy, but found dressing as one fun and wanted to be able to go to proms and dances as a girl. When I did go out on a date with a guy as a joke for a contest I enjoyed it. He made a few passes at me and I found out he was gay, but I wasn't interested we did remain friends, and went out often. I also went out with a few other guys where I played the girlfriend. While I found the flirtation fun and enjoyed hands trying to slide up my nylon covered legs as I sat in the middle of the seat. I was absolutely not interested in sex with any of them. My only interest in potential sexual partners have been female.
Forget the 50 shades thing, I honestly think the human sphere of thoughts and feelings, and especially when dealing with sexuality, are way to diverse to try and fit into three boxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie
So Thanx Stevie, this is some good stuff......guess i'm gonna have put my research cap (something akin to a dunce cap for me) back on.
I don't think it's "proof that the 2 are things are not separate", but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that there are more vagaries then we give credit for.
I, once in a conversation much like this one, said something to the effect that the less masculine a male gets the more he would register on my brain as sexually attractive (which is not saying that I would find one sexually stimulating as a possible partner for myself), much like a she-male porn star.
The whole forum nearly rioted, and it got very ugly..............so please don't come unglued folks, the terms are merely for the purpose of discussion. I'm trying to back up my narrative that nothing on this orb is as simple as we try to make it.
I also remember a long rambling post years ago, on another site, that talked about bisexuality (in gender normies), having more to do with people just being very sexual type of human beings, and for whatever reason, the sexual partners gender doesn't matter to them.
Which of course has little to do with the OP's topic, but I tend to agree with t as explaining why a person can go both ways.
IDK, I guess I must truly be non-binary because I don't think of myself as female gendered enough to need any possible validation that could come from a biological male with matching gender.
But as I once said in the TG/NB forum, I think masculine men are sometimes rather sad and pathetic beings, not much appealing in that.
But that's just me, I sincerely hope your ymmv.
By the way Stevie, I laughed my butt off on the Bubba and astrophysicist analogy; i always did like your sense of humor.
Cass
Maybe you are attracted to men but it just surfaces when you are dressed as a woman. -- or -- You aren't attracted to men, but you are attracted to (excited by) the idea that a man is attracted to you when you are dressed up. That's a fantasy that's pretty common among us, and is rarely played out in reality. When it is made real, you find out if your attraction to men is real or fantasy.
I never had the need to test it in reality. I know it's just fantasy (one of many).
I can describe in detail the physical appearance of a woman in my fantasies. I cannot do that for a man, as there is nothing about a man, no physical appearance attribute, that I am attracted to. So my fantasies are about me, a man is just a nameless, faceless prop.
I've talked about this enough in plenty of other threads. Tired of repeating myself!
I agree with others that this is kind of a tired subject, but I'm going to take a different swing at it. Mind you, this is my take on it and I understand that I may be the only one on the planet like this.
I was married for 30 years. Straight as a... pick your favorite straight thing. At least as far as I knew. I certainly had no attraction to men. However, in retrospect, was I as straight as I thought? I've been around enough men looking at nude or scantily clad women in pics or (the few) strip clubs to know that I didn't (don't) get as worked up over that as a lot of men do. Now, I know how I respond to that, but I really have no way of knowing what the next guy over feels except to assume that his reaction is genuine, and that would indicate this his reaction was much stronger than mine ever was. Still, not a problem. Not only did I consider myself straight, but I was not a cheater. Maybe one reason it was so easy for me to keep from cheating (which seems difficult for many) is that I wasn't as highly heterosexually motivated as other men.
Following this logic, imagine that your brain has a sexual component of a certain capacity. It can be filled 100% heterosexual, 100% homosexual, or some mixture of the two, but it has to be filled with something. I think my subdued reaction or attraction to a sexualized woman might just be an indicator that the sexual component of my brain wasn't 100% hetero. I never realized it when I was married and going through the motions of marriage, career, and family, but once those situations changed, other things started to change, too. Then there's also the wildcard of opportunity. Just being divorced after 30 years throws you for a loop. You change in a lot of ways, or at least parts of your personality come out that had been hidden or restrained. You're inclined to experiment with a lot of things that you couldn't or wouldn't have before. In my case I had a lot of Southern Baptist upbringing to overcome.
I don't think I was as straight as I always thought I was. Nor was I gay and hiding it. A big deal is made around here about your sexuality not changing over time. I don't agree, but let's say that's true. I'm certainly acknowledging and living the gay aspect of my personality or sexuality, where before it was completely overshadowed by life and a gratifying hetero experience.
I think with me anyway another thing that happens is you spend so much time and effort over the course of many years not only wearing women's clothes, but being out and about trying for all you're worth to live at least that part of your life as a woman. With me anyway, I spent an inordinate amount of what should have been male time living and appearing as a feminized version of me. It stands to reason, again in my case, that there'd be a bit of drift.
On this board we have the rigidly straight camp, the gay camp, and anyone who is not completely in one camp or the other is suspect, insincere, fantasizing, hiding, or lying. Why is that? BTW, back when I thought I was so completely straight I never even once fantasized about being with a man. I think we ought to leave a little room for movement away from strictly gay or straight. I don't think it's nearly that cut and dried.
Not at all unusual. Don't worry about it.
I am totally attracted to guys when I am dressed, and women when I am not.
Having a guy want you the way guys want women is an incredible experience. Being the recipient in the sexual part of the relationship makes me feel like a real woman,
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but wanted to emphasis this bit. It's like we are pushing the gender binary, but some folks here are steadfastly holding onto the sexuality binary. You must be A or B.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
There are those that are curious but fear prevents many of them from acting on it. For example, I had fantasies of being crossed dressed with men nearly 50 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
Tracii's comment resonantes with me on this ..as do many others. My head is spinning from reading all the responses! Some mentioned the difference between fantasizing about actually BEING a woman having sex with a man, and actually doing it while crossdressed..two very different things!! Although in some ways I think my crossdressing has helped me gain more empathy for women, and what certain experiences might feel like (social, not sexual), I do not and could never actually have a female thought process, as I am not female.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
In my case the "beach test" only finds me looking at women..I find the thought of sex with a man..or anything intimate with a man..nauseating..but the idea of being "taken care of" by a man..out to dinner, having the door held for me..is intriguing..I haven't ever done it and probably won't ..but the man would just be a prop..it would be about playing a female role..
so..actually feeling attracted to men while dressed? Not for me to judge, but it seems like that must already be there to some extent, and maybe being dressed allows you to go there?? Beats me!
I'll take another stab at this:
When I'm dressed as a woman, it's a fantasy of being a woman. Now as part of this fantasy, I can imagine the feeling of a penis moving in my vagina. The reality of course is, I don't really have a vagina, just an imaginary one. Another reality is, I've never met or even seen a man that I would want to kiss, much less have sex with. So, in my fantasy of having sex as a woman, the penis couldn't have a man or face attached. Make sense?
Now nobody has to tell me that there are other ways to have sex with a man but it's the same thing; no actual man could be attached or at least no face.
I try my best to keep reality and fantasy separated and so far, I'm doing well at it and that's what I recommend for everyone.
I'm new here but this is a very interesting subject to me to say the least. When I was very young I explored with a friend sexually. I was just getting my urges and he and I played with each other a few times. I distinctly remember at the time being attracted to women and not attracted to men. Not sure why our explorations turned me on, perhaps at the time it was just convenient. The female shape was ultimately what I was after. Since that time I've never felt attracted to men, at least not when dressed as men in "man" clothes. I've seen the before and after pix of guys crossdressed and the after is much more intriguing. In the past decade I've noticed that I am attracted to men that are crossdressed. I enjoy trans and crossdresser porn but not "gay" porn. So is it not "gay" when guys are crossdressed? Very confusing....
I'm no expert on sexuality or human behavior but from my own experience sexuality seems to more like "theater". In other words, the illusion of a women attracts me to a man crossdressed, not necessarily the male form. I can appreciate a man who is physically fit and attractive but in his man persona, I find no attraction. Its a strange conundrum of thoughts and feelings. I see an attractive women dressed in a tight sexy dress and heels and I want to see myself dressed that way. It is an extreme turn on to think of myself as a sexy seductive, perhaps even a bit naughty.
I can't really explain any of this but attempt to understand it...
Eryka
This topic always generates a lot of strong opinions. Those from the straight camp can reaffirm their "straightness" while those from the in between camp can argue that it depends and a few from the gay camp can assert their difference.
The assumption is that there are three sexual preference camps, straight, gay and bi-. But what if preferences change over time. I know several openly gay men who were once married, had families but at some time in their life they began to feel the pull toward other men. One that was so strong that they left their marriages and found other men as partners.
I don't know any answers but I wonder if these pigeon holes are not pigeon holes at all but just descriptions of complex sexual feelings that change with time and perhaps even with certain circumstances.
One aspect of these discussions always surprises me. Many declarations of being sexually straight seem to imply a certain dislike or disdain of other sexual orientations. Why are we as cross dressers, who often plead and beg for acceptance, so moralistic and judgmental? We of all people should be as tolerant and understanding as possible yet we have groups like the Beaumont Society that barred any cross dressers who were not heterosexual and even were wary of single cross dressers. Its an enigma.
women or man
click here
how many would be attracted regardless.
(only because you used "female attracted") would you still be attracted if it was a dude ???? :devil: i got wood....it scared me....to me thats a women :battingeyelashes: happily married so its a mute point and im too old for herQuote:
Originally Posted by DaisyLawrence
my good lesbian friend intro's me as lesbian all the time :o i occasionally attend "hot topics for lesbian" meetings :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Krisi
we talked about gogo bars last week :eek:
Most often, those folks were always bi but were for whatever reason, interested in only one sex at a time. I know bi girls who have gone through long periods where they were only interested in one sex or the other, only to change and then go for the other sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by CONSUELO
Maybe they simply missed something that they liked? I know that when I've gone on to live far away from one place that offered something in particular, I later longed for something about it in particular. So I suppose that could apply to sex for some, as well.Quote:
I know several openly gay men who were once married, had families but at some time in their life they began to feel the pull toward other men. One that was so strong that they left their marriages and found other men as partners.
Don't forget the strict homophobia that most of us grew up with.Quote:
One aspect of these discussions always surprises me. Many declarations of being sexually straight seem to imply a certain dislike or disdain of other sexual orientations. Why are we as cross dressers, who often plead and beg for acceptance, so moralistic and judgmental? We of all people should be as tolerant and understanding as possible yet we have groups like the Beaumont Society that barred any cross dressers who were not heterosexual and even were wary of single cross dressers. Its an enigma.
That is a negative from me.
I have, however, found out from a friend of mine that both women and men were checking me out one night.
But that still does not change who all I am attracted to.
:)
A boy who strongly wants to dress as a girl, but for any or all of many reasons has not, is he a crossdresser? The dictionary says no.
A man who never had that internal drive to wear women's clothing but did for costuming/theatrical reasons, is he a crossdresser? The dictionary says yes.
A crossdresser who is not attracted to and was never intimate with other men, but is attracted to or excited by the idea (fantasy) of being with a nameless, faceless man when dressed, is he gay?
Some might say "leaning gay" but how about "straight so far"?
I agree.....there's more going on than we can simply limit to three boxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CONSUELO
I think this actually goes down more to shame, guilt and denial. Someone who spent there entire childhood and young adulthood in the closet and couldn't bear to come out to their family and managed to live the lie until they could no longer do it.Quote:
I know several openly gay men who were once married, had families but at some time in their life they began to feel the pull toward other men. One that was so strong that they left their marriages and found other men as partners.
Again, I agree and said this earlier in the thread, the human experience is not so easily placed, obviously or we wouldn't be here right? There are way more shades of gray then 50.Quote:
I don't know any answers but I wonder if these pigeon holes are not pigeon holes at all but just descriptions of complex sexual feelings that change with time and perhaps even with certain circumstances.
Cass
Once found a shop that was named 99% Straight, does that not apply to all of us.
I'm transgender, but I'm bisexual regardless of what I wear. That never changed growing up.
Not at all. :hugs:
Angie
I think that when I am able to dress my inhibitions relax and the thought of being with a man is more enjoyable. I would call myself bi-sexual. However, I do not see myself having gay sex without being dressed, it's just part of it for me, and I enjoy that.
When I dress up in lingerie I only think about being with women..... but thats just me
I'll throw my bizarre two cents in. I'm bi, but prefer women. Unless (and this is fairly recent for me), I'm dressed.....then, I'm more partial to men and in fact would like to be the "girl" in the relationship. Be always dressed, treated like a lady, so on and so forth. A cross of a few different things going on there with not only sexuality. For the record, I don't consider myself trans, but from that description, it would be an easy conclusion to draw.
Different strokes to move the world.
Experimenting with your gender expression can unlock deep repressed realities about yourself. It's not the physical act of putting on clothes or makeup that creates the change. It begins with the personal and emotional investment that is directly tied to your transformation, your decision of whether to present fully as that gender after that transformation is done, and any self-realization that happens when you don't see your own reflection in the mirror.
In general, you are who you are, and your sexual preferences are pre-programmed.
But many M2Fs that have remained adamant about their heterosexual orientation find that through their gender role reversal, they unlock many repressed feelings and come to terms with the fact that they are actually also (or in some cases exclusively) attracted to men. Whether it's through a sexual encounter while presenting as a woman, or realizing through playing the role of a woman that they begin to notice men, and realize that attraction extends regardless of the gender they present as.
In other cases, the sexual preference fluidity is psychological. Your heterosexuality follows the gender role you play, or you embrace a bisexual openness when you present as female. For many of us, we have created a whole different individual within ourselves, and when we dress, we fully embrace the highly developed female persona we have created. For as long we are dressed, we play that gender role and it dominates our sub-conscience. For those of us from certain generations, that comes with some very firm societal biases we grew up with...girls only like boys... and we play those out.
And in still other cases, sexual orientation is static and everything is well defined.
In short, it's complicated... and it also evolves depending on how you choose to develop your inner woman.
Oh come on, this test wouldn't work anyways. NO ONE is attracted to those dorks in big bang theory. Doesn't matter how you are dressed, sexual preference, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy Irving
On a related note - I once tried on an NFL jersey and found i was unable to stand for the national anthem.
FWIW - My one incident I can contribute to the discussion...
I once went out en-femme with a GG friend to a gay/trans friendly bar.
While we were there, this guy came up and started flirting with the two of us.
To my surprise, I was flattered and intrigued. I honestly thought I could actually accept a date with him
- BUT -
all too quickly he let me know that he didn't see me as a woman, or as a (cliche warning here!) woman stuck in a man's body (I warned you!). It was obvious that he saw me as a man in drag. He was all to eager to inform me that he was BI and that he was still interested - dropping the 'drag queen' label what seemed like a thousand times.
Well, that was enough to turn me off and ruin the whole event.
If he could have seen the female in me and responded to that, we might have found way forward. As 'a girl' I was interested, but I had ZERO interest in a male to male relationship.
And for the record, at the time, I was in therapy, on hormones, and thought I was transition and surgery bound. (all that changed later)
So - what does that make me? the closest I've been able to come was "hetero curious" when I was working on switching genders
And I know two women who did the same thing. Left their husbands and families and ran off with other women. One was the wife of a friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by CONSUELO
The other was a lady I worked with and I was always tempted to ask her what caused her to "jump the fence" but I never did because we worked for an overly "politically correct" organization and it could have cost me my job. So much for understanding others.
I don't think these women were bi-sexual, I think something changed in their lives.