Unless the need is wardrobe related, those two things don’t really follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetdreams
As for the incident itself,I think you had that guy fooled until you went into the men’s room.
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Unless the need is wardrobe related, those two things don’t really follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetdreams
As for the incident itself,I think you had that guy fooled until you went into the men’s room.
I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Desiree2bababe
My opinion on this:
The more you try to look feminine and present near 'perfect' as a woman, the more likely it is that you attract guys, CD/TS admirer or heterosexual men.
It's a little contridictionary, so don't start complaining about male attention.
When I get out I am usually just going for a girl next door look.
The last time I was in Las Vegas I had a nice conversation with this guy until I noticed he was looking at my boobs more than my face.
That got me a little scared and I soon left.
Try being so fish in a gay bar that none of the guys hit on you because they think you’re actually a woman. :P
I cant imagine that being a common occurrence. I mean, a person cruising for gay guys would fare better if they themselves looked like a guy, no?
If I don't get hit in I'm slightly annoyed.
I am good with getting attention from men and/or women, as long as it is respectful. After all, I take a lot of trouble to look as good as I can when I head out! If someone is attractive and generally cool, I will always give them the time of day, male or female. I have seldom had any issues with unwanted male attention, altho often it is the ones you think are OK or not OK that surprise you. I was once at a Harmony weekend in Scarborough in the UK with a tgurl friend, and we were in a club that was hopping. A guy who was well dressed and an off duty cop was starting to get a little tipsy, and very handsy with me. I pointed out that what he was doing was almost certainly against any law, both of the land and of decency, and he pulled back and was rather chastened. My friend and I left soon after, and being about 1am after a long evening, we were hungry. We passed a late night takeout pizza joint on the way back to the hotel, and went in to order some slices. My friend was quite passable, but I am a tall gal and would probably not fool anyone up close. As we were waiting, a few very rough looking biker types came into the place, and we were both extremely nervous. But, as it happened, they turned out to be just fine, very much the gentlemen, and we had a great laugh and chat with them while we were all waiting! No problems at all...Then more recently here in Tucson, I was in Barnes and Noble one evening after dark, and was just leaving to walk back to my car. A man and his teenaged son were leaving at the same time, and he held the door for me to go thru, and smiled. I smiled back and said a quiet thank you, and then walked back across the lot to my car. All the way across I could hear them walking behind me, and I got very nervous for some reason. I got into my car, and they got into an SUV behind me a little way. I waited for them to leave, because for some reason I thought he might follow me, but he did not move. Then I caught sight of a shadow behind my car, and realized he was crouched down there trying to look into my car! God knows what his son thought he might have been doing, but I was terrified and started up and drove away. I looked behind and saw the SUV start to follow me around to the other side of the Mall, so I pulled over and parked, thinking he would drive off. Nope, he drove over and parked not far away from me. I was really getting freaked out then, so I drove back to the busier side of the place, followed again by the SUV, and luckily saw a cop car parked there as they do after dark sometimes. I wasn't quite ready to chance an encounter with the cops dressed up, so I pulled in just up close to them, and the SUV continued on and didn't stop. I waited for quite some time, then went home, but it was very unnerving. You can never tell, and the best advice is to be in company if you're somewhere that could be dodgy.
Well, I like being contridictionary!Quote:
Originally Posted by faltenrock
And let's be honest, some fellas will chase anything in a dress. ;)
Lara's story is frightening...and illustrates some of what's possible to encounter out in the world. Someone else here said it, but this thread shows how much privilege men have in this world. As a man, if I go to the store, the mall, a bar, etc, i never have to think about predatory men. But the few times I've been out dressed as a woman, I've had to think about all sorts of things I never had before, like knowing where my drink is at all times and how lonesome and scary it can be simply walking to and from my car at night. So while it can be very affirming and even exciting to receive male attention, it can also be frightening. I've had men paw at me at a bar in a way that they would never (I'm assuming) do in a different setting. It's gross. And it can feel very vulnerable. Then I remember I can bench 225# and have been in fights before, so I feel less so. But many GGs can't, and so they can be left feeling just as vulnerable.
One unexpected result of crossdressing and going out in the world is how it has made me a much more empathic and aware of the things women face. I think, weirdly, it's made me a better man.
Actually learning how to deal with Male attention
to me is a part of going out enfemme .
Now you know what it is like for the GGs
You learn a lot about how to treat a Lady when viewing it from the other side
JAS
And some fellas will chase guys who wear dresses even more than they would chase a GG in a dress. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience
Honestly, I think that guys might be cruder with CDers than they are with GGs, because they know the CDer is a man and so the CDer understands what men want.
Josie mentions always knowing where your drink is. Back when I was married I'd travel about 150 miles away about once a month to do my girl thing for two or three days. On just about every trip I went to the same Mexican restaurant. I'd always place my drink order, read the menu, then after they took my meal order I'd go to the bathroom. That left my drink sitting on the table. At the time I probably had never even heard of the date rape drug, or at least not given it any thought as it applied to me. I returned to my table and sipped my drink without noticing anything out of the ordinary. Even before my food arrived I started feeling drunk and dizzy. I had probably only drunk a couple of ounces. I went ahead and waited on my food, thinking that I just needed to eat something. I took a couple of bites and felt like I might get sick. I asked for my check, paid, and left. I felt very drunk, but managed to make it to my car. I sat there for a while and tried to collect myself and eventually drove to the hotel, which was nearby.
For years I thought it was just because I hadn't eaten anything and that I just had a quick reaction to the alcohol. Then I talked to a girl who had had a similar experience, and she knew what it was. I was sitting at a booth across from a table with two men. I never had any interaction with them, but they were the likely suspects. I don't know what they would have gotten out of it unless it had gotten bad enough that they would have offered to take me to my room. Glad I didn't find out.
I think you're right Reine. In my limited experience there's a type of guy who thinks that once he's realized you're a CDer it automatically means you're desperate for sex and have no self-esteem and therefore if he's "prepared to sleep with you anyway" then he doesn't even need to bother with the minimal "niceties" that he'd grudgingly give to a GG to keep her from walking away.
Makes sense to me too. It's why I can't understand GAY guys who want to dress up as WOMEN themselves.---------Do they wanna attract STRAIGHT men? WHY? A true Straight man wants nothing to do with Gay sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience
I have to disagree with you Marina.
It's been my experience that more straight guys hit on T-girls, than gays do.
Most gay men seem to see us as competition.
Whereas, and this is just my opinion, from observation, straight guys will hit on us for the 'forbidden fruit' angle, and because they can indulge in a little homo-erotic behavior while still maintaining their 'straight' rep.
"Hey, it isn't gay if "she" looks and acts like a woman"
I totally agree with this. I've come to realize over the years that to many straight guys, sex is sex no matter the object, especially if they want sex with no strings attached. Some guys are just more flexible than others. Their definition of gay sex is a man who actually wants a relationship with the guy he's having sex with. And so he feels that since most men are just like him (wanting sex no matter with who), the ones who dress like women are easier to score than any GG who might actually want a relationship to go along with the sex. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jodie_Lynn
Ain't that the truth, although we don’t get the full experience either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean. Ann
I don't mind male attention at all if he is good looking and buying the drinks.
In all seriousness, there is no real answer to the question until you have answered for yourself where is the boundary and how far are you willing to go to defend it? Where is the line that does not get crossed? Is that line concrete and steel or is there flexibility to work with?
I don't mind if it's a positive male attention. Either just a smile or few nice words or even something more. I'm only afraid of unwanted male attention, like harassing me on the street while they're drunk and usually in a group.
I don't mind the attention....mostly older men....but its fun and I enjoy the conversation.
No kidding. At my very first outing during last year’s pride, one drunken-ish college kid told me a couple times to “show my fat boobs”. I guess they must have been pretty convincing. Ironically, it was just a bikini top with no padding at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmen
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
This comment fits in with my personal experiences. When I'm out in Drag I know that I can pretty much blend with the surroundings if I have female or male companion, but a single person presenting as a woman gets more scrutiny. Under those circumstances it wouldn't be difficult for someone to put 2 + 2 together and conclude that I'm CD'ing. And, as you say, there are guys who very much have their radar attuned for crossdressers. It happens occasionally that I've been approached by men who wouldn't have come on to me if they thought I was a genetic woman. On a few occasions I've even had a cup of coffee or glass of wine with the fellows who have been polite, clean-cut and made a pleasant presentation.
Regarding Diane Taylor's experience, I've never experienced anything like that, where a guy has come-on to me out in a situation where it's totally inappropriate. On the occasions when I've been hit-on there has always been some sort of a social context, and usually alcohol was being served nearby.
I have also been propositioned when I've been in Drab, and I presume other members of this forum have been, also. To my personal sensibilities those occasions have been more jarring and upsetting than the ones where I've been presenting as a woman. The venues for those have been much more varied, including but not limited to the usual suspects such as public urinals, airports, locker rooms.
Fantastic thread and first up I've never gone out dressed . And when I'm out and spot a TS or CD I always want to go up and talk to them as I have never talked to a fellow CD . But I'm afraid they'll consider it as I'm hitting on them or I'm a creep . So I haven't done it yet .
Approaching a CD to talk to her about the fact that she is a CD is beyond creeper. Don't do it. That would be like going up to a woman who has a shapely body with the sole intent of letting her know that you dig her rear end. Sure, people do it but it's wrong. If you can't find a reasonable excuse to engage in conversation with a person who happens to be a CD, just admire from a distance. Don't be a creeper.
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia K
As someone who interacts regularly with men, I have heard more than a few say that they are attracted to CDs primarily because we are lovely women with no expectations about relationships and no hangups about sex. The allure of scoring with an attractive "woman" who is OK with casual sex outweighs whatever discomfort they may have with me being male under it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
When I am out and dressed at a club I want the attention of men. That adds to my feelings of being attractive and looking Fem. I've had some wonderful times with some really great guys that I have met while out. I am disappointed if I don't have at least a few guys come up to me and try to pick me up.
Can you describe the kind of things that happen in those situations, Courtney?
I’m all for flirty fun, but wouldn’t want to mislead anyone or give false hopes.
Micki, good advice. I would add don't be shocked if there are times when that ring and statement are not enough to end the situation.
I had to deal with some unwanted male attention last night. I was down at the local club where I usually spend my Friday evenings. Last night my wife was not in the mood so it was just me, my son, and a GG friend of mine met up with us later. We were hanging out, drinking, and occasionally dancing. A guy was chatting us all up but seemed to really like me. He asked me to dance and being me I obliged. On the dance floor he got very... well aggressive we'll say touching me. Once I had enough I pushed him away turned around and walked back to my table. He kind acted upset I told him not to touch me again. He was still hanging around and I decided to go the the restroom. When I came out of the restroom my GG friend grabbed me and said "Don't go back to the table, that creepy guy was asking lots of creepy questions about you, and we are trying to get rid of him". So I went outside for a few minutes and when I came back in he was gone.
I am lucky I have friends that look out for me.
As with anything in life, there is good and bad with any situation and dealing with men is no different.
I get guys messing with me. If I am in a scene like a bar that is to be expected. But if I'm walking home at night it's not a very pleasant thing. Some of the hoods I lived in were dangerous for a man to walk alone, so it would not be any safer for a woman. One just has to get street smarts and be able to read a situation before it happens.
But for a man to come up and talk to me is no big deal. Ya never know he might turn out to be my prince charming.
One advantage I have is that most guys are scared of me, scared of the way I look and are too timid to even try talking to me. I give off this "keep away" sort of vibe. Also living in a bad neighborhood the guy that sees me might think I am the bad person walking alone at night, that I am the one that is dangerous.
I don't go to malls and such places, I am mostly a night time person. I don't run into too many people during the day.
For those who don't pass (most of us), the dynamic is usually different. Of course, I'm talking about tranny chasers. At my age, the few I have encountered are old enough to have learned how a gentleman behaves, and they politely, even gallantly take a subtle hint that it's not going to happen. In a similar vein, there's what I'll call sport flirting, the social dance where everyone knows it's a game. That's just good fun when, again, the players are refined enough to know what the stakes are. Some of my younger, hetero CD friends have, I suspect, a harder time.
For all of who present as female, the world, or what in my trade we refer to as "the threat landscape", looks very different. Situational awareness is more important, and different strategy and tactics are required. The cis women reading this are nodding (or saying, "Well, duh!"), but they've learned those things over a lifetime. We, on the other hand got a late start.
You know what? I think I'll look into finding an expert on self defense for women who'd be willing to put together a presentation for us novices. I'm sure it's been done, but not around these parts Hmmm...
i have yet to venture out, but i think i might be more concerned about my tendency to smile at women and perhaps give them the wrong impression... or would that be the right impression....:)
Hello Patience,
I always love reading about someone getting to experience the feeling of going out dressed in its earliest stages! Even now there are still places and situations I have yet to experience while en femme, but overall I've been going out for about 17 years now
I can sit here for hours and tell you of all the wonderful things that can accompany a man and how they treat you. I've had a LOT of boyfriends and partners over my 20 years as a CD so yes there have been a few downsides.
You ask about consequences. I'm not prideful but I've been told by every guy I meet that I'm this adjective or that (lately the word goddess keeps getting used and I'm like uh no lol do not call me that) and it is very flattering. I've noticed way more females are attracted to me as well once they see my feminine side. I eat it up inside getting that kind of attention, I stay humble about it. There's a reason I'm bringing this all up.
You are pretty, I can imagine you going out and getting hit on. You're vibing with just being out and dressed, not once thinking about a date and along comes a man. In my experience it has gone one of 2 ways.
The first kind of guys are nice, shy, loud, proudly gay, sweet lol I'd say the ones more in touch with their feminine side. They understand touch, sensuality and boundaries. It can be better than awesome until you get the guy saying he loves you on the first date while in bed together. Ummmm no lol not all are that clingy but the love is def there
Then there's the MAN man, the guy that sees you as he sees any female. These guys are the macho bro type of dudes lol hygiene usually takes a back seat with this group but that is not a bad thing lol these guys are more the swoop you up in their arms and command you around type. It can be a huge turn on when done respectfully however there are those that get very forceful and very mean very quick.
I know just like our community there are far more types than I am exploiting here but the main point I am trying to make is this. Be careful and be very open with anyone you speak to while dressed up. Always be up front when you feel a boundary is being tested and never feel obligated to stick around and hope things get better. If a man is coming up to you because he finds you attractive he's already accepted that he's about to talk to another male that's en femme. Now the manner and tact that they use to begin the conversation should help you to understand what they may already want from you. You'd be surprised how many guys are going to a gay bar for the first time just because they're sick of women and just wanted to vent to someone. And yes there's always the guys saying they've never done this before lol
I wish I could end on a better note but do be careful when you choose events or bars to go to while dressed up. In my experience if the bar is for gay men only, I've never been welcome or approached and def not hit on. Its the same with a female lesbian establishment. Not every place is that way and more places are joining the LGBTQ concept however some places cater to a specific crowd and they're ok with keeping others out. I'm fine with not going in lol
Take care hun and have a fantabulous day!!!!!!!!
I am gay but a transgender woman so I dress like a woman for me not for men.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaTwelve200
Your comment is slightly sexist IMO but you are free to feel that way so I really have no problem with you saying that
I would love to find a gay man that would accept me for me but they can tend to be sexist just like straight men.
Plus being big doesn't help either when it comes to dating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinaTwelve200
I have to agree with Tracii here, don't fall into that sexist trap of thinking everything a Woman does, she does for the sole purpose of attracting men.
I dress for myself and to impress other women. Attracting a man is the last thing on Earth I want to do.
If I'm at work, I just tell them I'm married, and show the ring.
If I'm at a bar or something, I tell them I'm a married lesbian.
Hi Patience,
I guess we all here have our wants and desires. Some go out dressed and have NO desire to be admired and I TOTALLY understand that.. Others like to be admired but have no intention of going any further and I TOTALLY understand that!. I fall into the category of going out as a "girl" and wanting to be admired as a "girl". So when I am out I WELCOME the attention of men and love to be "hit-on". That is why I dress and go out. So, yes, I do meet men and other CDs. And, yes, I love the attention. And, yes, it does sometimes lead to other things which I totally am agreeable with and seek out. This is just "ME"....Not for everyone.