Secrets and Lies

I have this same dilema with my mother. She wants so badly to tell my aunt so that she has someone to talk to, but I won't let her. And I won't let her only because my aunt will tell everyone she knows and then my grandfather will find out and I truly believe it would kill him, literally. He's pretty open-minded, but he's not in the best of health and I know that he would be devastated by news like that, so I have made the decision not to tell him ever. I told my mother she could tell people but choose wisely who she talks to. If I wasn't so worried about my grandfather I'd of told everyone myself by now, I'm not ashamed of who I am or who I have become, and someday my whole family will know about and know Lindsay, but that day is far away and to be honest I hope it never comes because I know it will be a day when I can't walk up to my grandfather and say hi without talking to a stone.

... that a "guy" enjoying the wearing of those things judged or accepted (high heels -etc) , as female attire...are beyond accepted societal "norms"
are/and then rejected as perverce?
like women wearing pants , has been said in times past ?
... while men giving up their masculinity,, even for moments .. seems unaccepable in the general consensis eh ?
reasonsforthissiteperhaps? "K"

If neither of you want anyone else to know, why is the secrecy part of it an issue?

My wife has a fantasy about being with much older men and she doesn't want anyone else to know about it because she's a little embarassed and she thinks it's a personal thing between us. I never once felt like I was "forced" to keep a secret from my family and friends or felt disloyal to them b/c of it. I'm a little confused as to why you do.

As far as her having feelings about my CDing, I get that - sometimes I think it's pretty weird myself. She may not enjoy it or want to partake in it or even wnat to know when I'm doing it, but I have to say that whatever shame she has around it is really her issue...and I'm struggling not to make that my shame too.

If I pranced around the neighborhood or told friends, neighbors or family, or if I insisted she do it with me, then yes, her life would be concretely impacted and that would be forcing all of societies stigmas and ridicule on to her. But as it stands now...what I'm doing isn't wrong. She can feel whatever she wants and I've talked to her and listened, many times. But as I've said on this forum before, she knew about it a month into our dating. If it's an issue for her 13 years later, I really can't carry that around with me.

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Originally Posted by JennaKnots

If neither of you want anyone else to know, why is the secrecy part of it an issue?

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"My browser ate my homework!"

This afternoon, I was a fair ways into a posting about secrecy, but my browser bombed out on me and it was completely lost. So to more or less recreate the theme of that message:


The original poster said that she was accustomed to being an honest person. Now I don't know exactly what she meant to imply there, but I can take this into a generalization.

There are people to whom not lying is a point of high honour or a matter of strong ethics (or morals), or just something that makes them very uncomfortable.

Quite a few posters have said roughly, "Okay, so just don't tell!". But to the person for whom honesty is very important, it is not nearly that simple.

Such people might have no problem at all in keeping quiet about something they weren't asked abou; though to some, even failure to respond to an expressed misconception not phrased as a question can be hard.

Now imagine you are such a person, the wife of a cross-dresser, and your mother in law calls to talk to your husband, and he is not home. And suppose your mother in law asks where he's gone and when he'll be back. Now, what do you, the naturally very honest person, say if you know that the answer is that your husband has gone out for the evening to a Tri-S meeting?

Or suppose someone asks you about your husband's hobbies? Or suppose a relative says they'd like to give him a shirt for xmas and asks what kind he would like, and you know the answer is "The pink ruffled satin shirt in the womans' boutique downtown" ? Or suppose someone asks where he got those pants they saw him wearing, and you happen to know that those are really womens' pants, that even though the style/colour looks fine and natural on men that it just isn't sold for men?

To the person for whom any intentional misdirection or avoiding a direct question is very hard, there are a lot of lurking pitfalls.

"You and your husband went shopping yesterday? Did you buy anything interesting?" Well yes, we bought him a little black dress that looks just fabulous on him -- but a "not really" or "nothing special" response would be a form of lying, even though his new dress is none of their business.

The original poster doesn't want to be going around volunteering things -- but there can be lots of times when the real answer to a question would involve mentioning the crossdressing in some manner or other, and deliberately responding with an untruth or "white lie" or change of topic can be very hard on some people.

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Originally Posted by Angie G

Stating something not truthful is a lie not saying something is not a lie.

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"Look at that guy prancing around in tight pants. It's a good thing that Paul-Henry isn't here, because he'd have a fit, because he hates seeing people like that, right?"

Real answer: "No, he really likes that kind of pants, and has two pairs himself, except in a different colours than those -- and you should see how sexy Paul-Henry looks when he's dressed up and wearing them!"

But it's a remark phrased as a question, and to the person who hates to lie or misdirect, but cannot (and would not) give away Paul-Henry's secret, nearly any answer is a lie -- even just a grunt or an "Oh, my!", because any answer that allows the person to keep thinking what they do about Paul-Henry is a form of lie since the person asked a question. And even if they hadn't actually put in the noise request for confirmation, to know the other person is so wrong and to allow them to continue in their wrong thinking is a form of deception, under the principle that "Silence indicates consent."

In the example above, there are perhaps a few honest answers available, such as, "Oh, I think Paul-Henry is calming down a bit as he gets older"... but if Paul-Henry never had been that way? No internal flare of protective anger temping you to say, "You're so wrong, Paul-Henry is one of the most tolerant people to things like that that I know!" ? But if the matter isn't casually deflected, then a more focused question might get asked, and if you can't stand lying then you've lost control of the conversation and anything might come out...

Silence or "I'm not sure" or "oh, maybe", or "How nice of you to drop by; Paul-Henry isn't available right now (because Paulette is "visiting") -- these can all be forms of lies.

To the person for whom any intentional misdirection or avoiding a direct question is very hard, there are a lot of lurking pitfalls.


Tess-leigh....thank you for your responses. They show a really good understanding of the issue here and I'm sorry I haven't been able to make it that clear myself to other posters.

There are many, many ways and times you have to lie, some of which you have mentioned. Buy maybe the term 'lie' is being taken too literally on this thread? For example, I wonder if other people wonder why it is always me that answers the door to unexpected callers in the evening and why my OH is never around ( as he's in the bedroom throwing on his male garb for the visitors ). It's not a lie, but it's a situation I live with due to his dressing. In this case no-one HAS asked, but the lie is ready just in case. This probably better explains my predicament.

Then, consider if some time down the line the secret comes out, your friends and family then know you have 'lied' and no doubt will remember situations........ah, that'll explain why I never saw her in the dress haniging in the hall, why she was shopping in the outsize store, why he wore long trousers that day the temperature hit 30 degrees................

The person THEY thought you were then becomes a lie when they realise you were actually capable of keeping this secret for so long when they thought you were so up front.

The responses here have made me feel better in many ways. The main one being, as previously alluded to, that at least my OH doesn't think the answer to all our woes is for me to get lost so he can get on with exactly what he wants with no questions asked.

So thanks again and GG's, please join the GG forum. I can't believe there are only 100 in there when there are ( I think it said ) 12000 members on this site. Even if only 10% of you have partners who know about your dressing that makes 1200 potential members?

Significant Other,
This theme, the words lies and secrets keeps resurfacing and I truly have a hard time with the context. Omission or rather, respect for your marriage by not going outside it without your SO's permission is not a lie. It is a defense of your marriage and its vows. In my books and belief system it is paramount. There are things about my wife that arenon sexual or bedroom related that I would never divulge to anyone including my therapist. It would be the ultimate betrayal. I will go to the grave safeguarding those confidences and that is what they are, confidences. For me to reveal them to anyone would be a complete betrayal of her trust in me and faith in our marriage. I may have betrayed her trust by not coming out before we were married but her reactions later after discovery can never justify me lashing out to hurt her for any reason. It does work both ways and it is still an issue of trust.

First, everyone of us who has had the good or bad fortune to have to deal with this with our SO understands very well the problems and the issues of maintaining that confidence. A few of the SO's managed some understanding, a few of those managed some acceptance and the rest of us.... well.

I get a sense that you seem to be more concerned with what OTHER people will think of your husband and by extension, you, in regards to your husband's activities. Quite frankly it is none of their business. Plain and simple. I also get a sense that you are deeply committed to your marriage so; Your defense of your marriage and partner is more important than other people's thoughts and opinions. It has to be.

Yes, you do need people to talk to but you need to start at home first. I really think that boundaries have not been negotiated. If they have and your husband is ignoring them then it is a whole other issue.

There are GG's here who are trying to deal with a "rogue" husband. We do understand and feel their pain. We also are very supportive of these ladies because they are getting a raw deal.

There are many other outlets of support for you: A therapist experienced in gender issues is top of the list. The GG's here are a phenomenal group of ladies as you will find out. And lastly there are many many of us to choose from who can and will be nonjudgmental and relate our own experiences. I would not ignore this because you will get a view from the other side of the fence that is not in your own backyard. What you dont want to do is be judgmental in your asking or commentary.

Someone mentioned a priest pastor etc. I would strongly advise against this. This issue is not one of religious guidance unless you make it one. Let me put it this way, you wouldnt ask a framing carpenter to fix the cabinets in your house would you? Both work in construction but have very different points of view and experience and skills.

I hope this is of some help and if I offended you earlier, please accept my sincere apologies.

:hugs:
Kimberley

I have been married to Bernice for 30+ years. We both have secrets we wouldn't want everyone else to know. I don't see why this is such a big deal. I know CDing bothers many people. I think SOs who are tempted to tell someone outside the relationship should ask themselves why. Also, what will the results of this secret becoming known be? In my own case, I do not believe my mother would be accepting. Bernice's mother has made her feelings on the subject known long ago and only pain for both would result from bringing it up there. I am less certain about the reactions of our siblings, but what business is it of theirs what either of us does in our own home? Unless a CDer is going to live publicly "out" then it is really not the place of an SO to tell anyone about what they do. This is, of course, just my opinion.

The world is not an accepting place of anything outside the norms when it comes to gender identity. (Perhaps that is not the correct phrase, but you know what I mean.) Before I considered talking to anyone about Bernice, I would have to ask myself what good would come of it and what harm might result. Most of us have enough problems without creating more for ourselves.

As for the notion that you are suddenly lying to your family, have you not ever kept a secret for anyone else? Over the years I have had friends tell me things they didn't want anyone else to know. I have also been privy to information not yet, or not ever, public in relation to my job. I didn't consider it lying to keep a secret I had been trusted with. In fact I would consider it a breach of the trust I was given to reveal someone else's secret they had shared with me. There are things I would rather no one know about me. I hope those few people (including my SO) I have trusted with my secrets will not feel they have to talk to someone else about it.

Sorry I went on so long but I do feel strongly on this.


Debbie GG

As I have stated on other threads, my sister (with whom I trusted my big secret) outted me to my parents about me being in the BDSM (D/s to be specific) lifestyle. She did this in a fit of revenge about something totally unrelated.

My Father refused to speak with me and sent word that he wanted no further contact with me until I had "that demon cast out of me". There was even talk of an "intervention". !! I was estranged from my parents for a very long time. I finally forced a confrontation with my Dad at which time I said as gently as possible:

Daddy, I have never asked, nor do I feel it is my business, what you and Mom do in the privacy of your bedroom. I do not ask you about intimate details of your relationship. Please afford me the same courtesy.

Since that time the topic has not been raised again, even though every time my Dad sees me, there is a gold chain around my neck that he very well knows is not "just a necklace" that I've worn 24/7 for 8 years.

My sister has never apologized nor do I need/want her apology. Her betrayal was simply one more attempt to control someone else because her own life is so out of control.

My point is this:

My husband is a crossdresser. I knew before making an emotional investment. I will forever be thankful for his gut wrenching honesty with me.

Trudi chose to tell her parents when her sister found out and was going to out her to her parents. She stole her sister's thunder. Both Trudi's parents took the news well. I've shopped for Trudi while out and about with my Mother In Law. MIL has given Trudi wonderful gowns, some of which we have pictures of Trudi wearing.

Trudi has also chosen to share who she is with a very select number of our friends.

On every occasion it was Trudi's choice to inform others. I will viciously protect her right to privacy and would never, under any circumstance, betray her confidence and trust in me.

What we do within the confines of our marriage is simply NO one else's business as we are breaking no laws, and causing no harm.

I'm probably different from many GG's in that I do not form strong relationships with other GG's R/T. I've never been one to need another GG with whom to share all my worries and dark secrets. The above is a good example of what happened when, in a moment of weakness, I did that. My husband is my confidante and I know I can trust him with my very life, let alone my confessions.

Yes, I do worry about the tongue waggers if word about Trudi gets out. I am *not*, however, worried for my own sake. I'm a staunch member of the Red Hat Society~I simply don't give a putrid rodent's patootie what others think of me anymore~it's extremely liberating. I worry that my husband's employees would take a red necked, uneducated position about it, resulting in a decreased level of respect for him with them. I also worry that it would compromise my husband's relationship with my Dad.

My Dad has the utmost respect for the man I married. It is not deceitful to not tell him about Trudi. There simply is no need for him to know. I *am* married to an extremely honorable man with a deep sense of integrity. My Dad also knows my husband to be a very sensitive and caring man, and admires the fact that he is so attentive to me. The fact that my husband sometimes wears the clothes of the female gender simply has no relevance.

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Originally Posted by Tamara GG

I really don't think it's anyone elses business what your partner does and it most certainly isn't being disloyal to your family and friends. I'm certain there must be something in your life you don't share with anyone else but your partner... I'm pretty sure your mum doesn't know the ins and outs of your sex life does she??? what about your dad, have you told him about your sex life?? intimate details?? or are those your secrets, between you and your partner..... just like his cd'ing is.

You have to remember just what comes with crossdressing and how your partner would feel if you felt that you couldn't keep his secret any longer. Would it be fair on him that you told everyone, made him feel ashamed, guilty etc??? How would you feel if you told him something so sacred, but because of his loyalty to family and friends, he felt he had to tell them, even if it meant hurting you??

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Tamara beat me to it............

I agree totally. The CDing can be just you and your partner's secret. No one has to know. Like Tamara said, your family, co-workers, brothers and sisters do not NEED know what goes on in your bedroom, so why do you feel obligated to tell them all what is a private thing between you and your husband?? The dressing issue is NO different than the sex issue.........it is a private thing between you and your partner. No need to feel guilty. They have things that they do NOT tell you about........and they don't feel guilty that they don't tell you these things. :hugs:

..after reading this thread, I was inspired to s/w my wife about whether or not she regarded my dressing as a secret she was forced to harbor and she said that she didn't think of it that way. But the thread made me want to continue to try to understand her side of things, so for that I'm grateful.

I responded defensively at first because this triggered all of the things that I feel shameful about and then I realized that the only thing that really mattered was weather or not my house was clean. And even though this hasn't been fully resolved, it continues to be worked on by both of us in an honest, respectful way.

What I have realized in my life is that usually the things that bring up the most uncomfortable feelings are the things we need to look at the most. So, I will put forth this suggested challenge to both CD's and SO's of CD's - ask yourself what feelings of shame, anger, threat or fear this behavior triggers in YOU and look at that and what the root of it is.:2c:

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Originally Posted by Significantother

My issue is how to deal with such a big secret not of my making.

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What does it matter where the secret came from. If you are married then it becomes OUR secret.
Also why is it a BIG secret - meaning it is only big if you let it be. It is your perception (and your husbands) that is the real issue here.

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The responses here have been very interesting, ranging from SO's who are fully accepting and clearly living happily with the situation to SO's like me still struggling, annoyed, upset etc with the situation and not happy to accept it is their partners right to expect us to accept their dressing as if it formed part of the original marriage contract....

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There is one question you really need to answer yourself. Why are you struggling with it? Simply answering you cannot, is not enough. What exactly is it about a crossdressed man that makes cringe? Only then can you properly tackle the issues that bring up these emotions. There is no point blaming your husband for your reaction. These are your thoughts and emotions so you need to examine yourself why you react the way you do to the notion your husband crossdresses.

This is not an excuse for placing blame on anyone but rather taking hold of your responsibility to tackle your own fears, anger, shame etc that crossdressing brings out. Your husband also should be doing the same thing. If you can both reach a solid understanding that these fears and emotions should not come between you and is of nobody elses' concern then crossdressing will become a MINOR even NON issue rather than a BIG issue.

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Originally Posted by Debbie GG

have you not ever kept a secret for anyone else? Over the years I have had friends tell me things they didn't want anyone else to know. I have also been privy to information not yet, or not ever, public in relation to my job. I didn't consider it lying to keep a secret I had been trusted with.

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For over a decade, my job involved knowing a lot of small secrets, and I had the mandate, tools, and job responsibility to discover or deduce matters that individuals (or the workplace) would prefer had gone unknown. If you had said that I was "a professional snoop", then that would have been understandable (though misleading about the motivation).
I'm a fairly honest person (or try to be), but I had a job to do (and I was good at it), and to the extent that it was true that I was a professional snoop, at least I worked hard at being Professional about it: I would point-blank refuse to tell my boss something if he did not need to know it. I was always the one pushing to ensure that we knew what the legal limits were and what the corporate policies were, even correcting the official trainers and telling the corporate lawyers that they were wrong or that a policy was unfair.

I had that job experience. I also have natural facility with English grammar and semantics, to take what has been said or written and reinterpret the probable spirit of it into something rather different, draining out one sense of the meaning and putting back a different sense that uses the same words and literal grammar in a different way. Some might call this "weaseling words"; others might call it "Lawyering at its worst" -- but reinterpreting what might have been meant is not the same as lying. And of course "I'm not authorized to tell you that" comes in handy ;-)

For example, a vendor might call up and want to know how their bid is going, and I might know -exactly- how their bid is going, but I'm not authorized to tell them that information, and indeed could get legally charged if I did tell them (bribery, favouritism, insider information...) Not telling all I knew, but not lying either, became a practiced art.

So there I was, known for being "too honest sometimes", but also known for my discretion. Telling them what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear, and refusing to tell them the things they didn't need to hear.

Telling unvarnished truth is not always a good career move :(


After all those years of telling the truth (by at least some interpretation of the words), I find that I am rather disappointed in myself, in how easy it seems to lie to my wife.
For example, sometimes I get home hours late because I needed to dress (even if just to walk around the mall), or I needed to go buy myself some womens' clothes (perhaps even an appointment to do so). Q: "You're late... where were you?" A: "I went shopping on the way home" (borderline truth if it was just "window shopping"). Q: "Did you see see anything interesting?" A: "Not really" (a lie -- I bought an outfit I'm pretty pleased with, and some knee-highs, and got home even later because I took the time to go stash them in my off-site locker.) And you know how when you need to dress to try to pass, that even a close shave and relatively simple makeup can take 90 minutes easily...

Probably my most direct lies have to do with attending my monthly club meeting -- which doesn't oficially start until 7:30 and usually doesn't really get going until after 8pm, and would last until 9-ish even if I don't stay for the socialization afterwards. I'm not at home, I'm not at work... where am I so late? Why didn't I want that drive home that was offered, and why did I leave so soon after that and yet not make it home for a noticable time? I can't be "out with friends" because I'm not known to have any friends to go out with. Last time that I stayed longer than just putting in a 10 minute apperance, I explained that "Yeah, I stopped to talk to some people along the way"... and fortunately was asked no details.

Lying, deliberate mistruths, is an insideous erosion of my principles.

For various internal and interpersonal reasons, I don't feel it to be particularily dishonest, or a breach of trust, that I haven't yet told my wife that I cross-dress -- but I do feel bad when I lie to hide my crossdressing. And then I start to resent that we're staying home, each doing our own independant "nothing much", when I could be out at one of the social events. (She'd say that going out would be good for me, which it would -- but I can't explain going out except by explaining everything...)
(In principle, I don't mind her knowing about my crossdressing -- I'm not ashamed of it -- but, like others, I fear the telling process and the possibility of an unpredictable or strong reaction.)

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Originally Posted by Cristi

I realize that my wife has to bear the stress of the risk of me being 'outed' as well as any feelings of stress she might get from feeling that she has to keep 'our' secret.... When I am dressed at home in the evening, there is a constant low level stress for both of us (but I think she feels it more) about the possibility of somebody stopping by unanounced and 'catching' me, or there be some sign left laying around (a bra or nighty in my size hanging in the bathroom, queen size PH drying on the shower curtain rod...) that visitors might stumble upon if we don't do a thorough sweep of the house before visitors stop in.

I get this stress as well, but *I* have the benefit on the other side of being able to enjoy the CDing. She gets the negatives, but no real benefit (other than knowing that it is important to me).

With this in mind, I've always tried to minimize any negative impact this all has on her. I don't push my CDing on her any more than she is comfortable with, I don't insist that she participate in any way, I try to keep it pretty much in the background of our relationship, just becuase I know that there really IS no 'upside' for her.

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New to the site. Been reading and learing. Finally someone who admits that it is stressful for the wife. The CDer always says they have the stress. Try looking at it from the secret keepsers side. No bashing intented at all. Just expressing so stress.....

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Originally Posted by Significantother

For example, I wonder if other people wonder why it is always me that answers the door to unexpected callers in the evening and why my OH is never around ( as he's in the bedroom throwing on his male garb for the visitors ). It's not a lie, but it's a situation I live with due to his dressing. In this case no-one HAS asked, but the lie is ready just in case.

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I know what you mean about that example, but that particular situation can probably be dealt with without a lie. He'll be out soon; he's just changing into something better suited for company.

Your concern about them re-evaluating you completely when they find out you've been hiding something and misdirecting them -- I hear what you are saying there (I think), but I don't have any ideas on that as yet.

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Originally Posted by GG Vanya

As I have stated on other threads, my sister (with whom I trusted my big secret) outted me to my parents about me being in the BDSM (D/s to be specific) lifestyle. She did this in a fit of revenge about something totally unrelated.

My Father refused to speak with me and sent word that he wanted no further contact with me until I had "that demon cast out of me". There was even talk of an "intervention". !! I was estranged from my parents for a very long time. I finally forced a confrontation with my Dad at which time I said as gently as possible:

Daddy, I have never asked, nor do I feel it is my business, what you and Mom do in the privacy of your bedroom. I do not ask you about intimate details of your relationship. Please afford me the same courtesy.

Since that time the topic has not been raised again, even though every time my Dad sees me, there is a gold chain around my neck that he very well knows is not "just a necklace" that I've worn 24/7 for 8 years.

My sister has never apologized nor do I need/want her apology. Her betrayal was simply one more attempt to control someone else because her own life is so out of control.

My point is this:

My husband is a crossdresser. I knew before making an emotional investment. I will forever be thankful for his gut wrenching honesty with me.

Trudi chose to tell her parents when her sister found out and was going to out her to her parents. She stole her sister's thunder. Both Trudi's parents took the news well. I've shopped for Trudi while out and about with my Mother In Law. MIL has given Trudi wonderful gowns, some of which we have pictures of Trudi wearing.

Trudi has also chosen to share who she is with a very select number of our friends.

On every occasion it was Trudi's choice to inform others. I will viciously protect her right to privacy and would never, under any circumstance, betray her confidence and trust in me.

What we do within the confines of our marriage is simply NO one else's business as we are breaking no laws, and causing no harm.

I'm probably different from many GG's in that I do not form strong relationships with other GG's R/T. I've never been one to need another GG with whom to share all my worries and dark secrets. The above is a good example of what happened when, in a moment of weakness, I did that. My husband is my confidante and I know I can trust him with my very life, let alone my confessions.

Yes, I do worry about the tongue waggers if word about Trudi gets out. I am *not*, however, worried for my own sake. I'm a staunch member of the Red Hat Society~I simply don't give a putrid rodent's patootie what others think of me anymore~it's extremely liberating. I worry that my husband's employees would take a red necked, uneducated position about it, resulting in a decreased level of respect for him with them. I also worry that it would compromise my husband's relationship with my Dad.

My Dad has the utmost respect for the man I married. It is not deceitful to not tell him about Trudi. There simply is no need for him to know. I *am* married to an extremely honorable man with a deep sense of integrity. My Dad also knows my husband to be a very sensitive and caring man, and admires the fact that he is so attentive to me. The fact that my husband sometimes wears the clothes of the female gender simply has no relevance.

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:iagree:

I myself have been into bdsm for years and know right where GG Vanya is comming from. For me it was with my ex wife. Total we were together for about 13 (including most of high school) years and in the end she found she liked my best friend better. Her family and our friends weren't happy about this at all and made it known. Starting in high school she wanted me to model her "naughty nighties" for her and from there it went into more and more things to the point where she was wanting me to sleep in and have sex in womans clothes. There is lots more but I think I have made my point. Anyway when her family and friends were making there feelings known and not allowing her new SO around them she decided to let out our little secret but leave out the parts of it that were her doing.

There is another case too but its just bdsm and no CD'ing at all and with someone totally different. Lets just say that when you find out someone is totally wrong for you and end the relationship and then a few weeks later a truck driver from the company that she works for comes in and askes you infront of your coworkers about your kinky side, it makes for a bad day.

My point here is, what happens your personaly life with you and your SO is only and should only be between you and your SO. If your free to talk to someone about his CD'ing then he should be free to talk about any part of you that he feels he wants to.

If you need someone to talk to, talk to your SO, he IS the best person to talk to. You will both understand each others point of view better in the end. The only way the person that you chose to talk to will be able to be of any help is if that person has had a SO that was CD or if they are a CD themself. Now when that person is of no help its off to look for someone else that is. How many people will it take to finally find someone to tell you what you want to hear instead of working together to find out whats really going on and what its going to take to make it work for the both of you.

Alot of people here say that keeping a person's CD'ing hidden from there SO is a breach of trust and to a point I agree. Trust is a funny thing. When everything is good and happy and love is the order of the day trust is easy. Its when things get tough and seem like they are falling apart that trust takes on a different light and in alot of cases, goes right out the window along with respect.

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10-28-2006, 05:28 PM MsJanessa
[SIZE="2"]Just remember that if you do "out" your SO without his permission than you have betrayed a trust and it will probably be the end of your relationship[/SIZE] .

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Sorry but did my DH not betray my trust by not telling me -------- so many of the posts here make it sound like the cdr actually made the decision to tell the wife/partner about their cding activites ------ sorry but many of us found out by accident and why if we choose to talk to people that know we are upset/struggling over this isssue --- (they are our friends/family and they know that there is something wrong in a lot of cases)----- are we the ones putting the relationship in danger. Yes fine I agree that there are things that are private between couples and others do not need to know.
but on the other hand this secret also causes tension between family and friends and they don't even have the "luxury" of knowing why :2c:

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There is one question you really need to answer yourself. Why are you struggling with it?

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I am not struggling with the cding I am struggling over the lies and deceipt that I/we practice on a daily basis to keep others from finding out --- (Including wearing about 3 pairs of knickers a day:tongueout, (it's sometimes the stupidist of things that drive us up the wall))

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If you need someone to talk to, talk to your SO, he IS the best person to talk to. You will both understand each others point of view better in the end.

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what happens if in some cases your DH will not/cannot talk about it to you ---- yup forums are great and I have a whole bunch of peeps I can ask advice, have a moan with,have a laugh with in here and other forums but nothing beats getting together with really good friends and hashing out the worlds and your problems be it issues in your relationship, the kids, neighbours, the job,whatever , sometimes your mates can make you see things from a different angle and many will agree cding is a minefield of emotion, so sometimes the one person who we know that we can talk openly about this, is the last person at that particular point that we can talk to ------- because maybe they are struggling with this themselves at that time

It seems to me that SO's who would like to talk to family and/or friends are deemed to be betraying a trust, sorry but sometimes we just need those that understand us to be able to turn round and tell us bluntly "YOU ARE BEING STUPID" and my mates would tell me that if they thought I was being stupid/unfair on my DH but they can't because I can't tell them and I never ever will unless DH tells me I can

Jess

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Originally Posted by Significantother

As a GG I've read a lot on here about the crossdressers 'secret', but how do the GG's feel about having to keep a 'secret' that's actually not theirs.

I have lived an open and honest life but now, due to my OH's dressing, I am forced to keep a secret from my friends and family, something my own actions have never led me to have to do.

I feel in some ways I'm forced to be disloyal to my family to be loyal to my OH.

How do you deal with this conflict and, have you guys ever thought about it this way? I'm sure you have.

The way I see it is this is a secret you choose to keep whilst your SO is forced to keep it through circumstances beyond her control.

Assuming you're not out that is.

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No one ever said crossdressing was easy. Welcome to our world. Your question also touches some of the reasons why we crossdressers may not tell our wifes/so's. Most GG's here stand by the full disclosure approach rather than keep the secret. However, I can only imagine how many cding readers and non-repliers are saying to themselves, "another reason not to tell my wife/so". Why tell? Who needs the chaos? Who wouldn't rather live a peaceful life with their partner? Unfortunately, sometimes peacefulness, for the cd can't be acheived until he tells his secret to his partner. It's part of the self acceptance process. How long has he kept this secret bottled up? Now, that he has shared some of his inner most feelings with you, you should feel more connected to him. Need someone to talk to? May I suggest him. Seek first, to understand, and then be understood. You have been given an unbelievable opportunity to move your relationship to the next level. Once you've made that deep connection, you have become soulmates. Perhaps you have not truly accepted his other side? Once accomplished, is there really a need to tell or talk to anyone else?

... disclosures ..of desires and past or present "isms" make communication , better ?
as always in terms of trust eh ?? I'm still learning about reasons for perspectives ... ( while they are unique ? ) ...yet still _ ego driven at best,when people were honest... ?? (or "IF" hehe ) :eek: :( xx"K"

For me, as far as my family is concerned, it's a case of "ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies". Whilst I'm not exactly going to volunteer the information I wouldn't blatantly lie to my Mother or Father about it either. I'm fairly sure they don't know and so the likelihood of them asking me is not high. Sharing this with them just so I feel better about myself, I don't believe, is going to enhance their lives one bit, so why do they need to know. I won't be telling them.

Now my wife on the other hand, is almost proud of my crossdressing, and she wanted to tell her sister (her Mother and Father have passed) almost as soon as she thought she would be ok with it....which she has now done. She's told me that when the time is right she's going to tell her teenage son about me too, after speaking with me first of course. :D

Perhaps this is a twist. Everyone on my side of the family knows. My children know. Nobody on my wife's side of the family knows; this is her choice. So I must keep her secret about me. This is not hard for me because I love and respect her and her wishes. As oposed to a lye, it is an omission about me. Now if someone askes me if I am a CD and I deny it, then that is a lie.

I've read quite a few of the posts here and can definitely see points on both sides of the fence. To be quite honest, this whole thread has done little more for me than to re-inforce the argument for not getting involved in another relationship.

I am so convinced that honesty is the only policy between two people in a relationship that I did what I thought was right and told my last girlfriend about this part of me after having dated for just 1 month. My rationale was that she should have all of the information necessary to make the right decision for herself as to whether or not this is the kind of man she wanted. She apparently did not. Six months after the fact (and after moving in together, no less) she decided that she did not like this part of me. But rather than simply parting ways and admiting that this was too much for her, she opted to try to force me to change who I was by threatening to tell anyone she could think of. The sad part was that when I did stop for her she never did believe that I did, so our relationship deteriorated.

I'm getting a bit off topic here, so please bear with me.

As I am sure that she felt burdened with a secret not of her making it makes me wonder if I should have ever told her in the first place.

Does anybody here listen to Dr. Laura? Often times I hear people calling in who say that they have cheated on their SO and feel so guilty that they feel they have to come clean. Dr. Laura usually tells them that that is an incredibly selfish thing to do, as it would aleviate the guilt by placing the weight squarely on the innocent victim, information that can not possibly be constructive. (of course this advice only applies to those who will not make that transgretion in the future, so it can only be related to this topic to a certain degree)

What I am trying to ask here is this. Which is the lesser evil?

A) Keeping the secret so that only the CD is burdened with the truth, risking the inevitable "you deceived me" argument when it is ultimately discovered, or;

B) Telling the SO so as not to feel deceitful, only to transfer the burden over to an unsuspecting, unwilling innocent who then has to "hide" the secret that we have been hiding our whole life?

At the very least, please tell me how we can possibly win here. This is the classic "damned if I do and damned if I don't" scenario. Until I have an acceptable answer/compromise I intend to keep away from the relationship scene.

Personally I have often thought "damn the topedoes, full steam ahead", and want to come out to the world, I think I would find it liberating. Yes it would effect my job and friendships, but as someone already said "if they were truly your firend....." As for the job, it would affect things, and it wouldn't. I would loose some aspects, but gain so many others.

The MAIN reason I don't "come out" to the world though,is how it would affect my wife and her friends/family. (her mother would probably want me committed to a psyc hospital)

My wife knows, and is supportive of me, and I dress when ever I feel it is "safe" to do so.

As for her having to keep "my" secret as a burdon(sp?) to her, I don't know, I will ask her tommorow and get back to you on that.

btw, the reason my wife is not on these forums is because she is computer iliterate, and wants to stay that way (she even hates to carry her cell phone)

I asked my wife today about if she thought it was a burdon(sp? again) to keep my secret.

she responded with "What? Not at all, that it is a private matter between her and I, and no one else's bussiness"

We then discussed as to how we both thought some of our friends and family would react (and laughed about some of thier percived reactions) if they found out.

You are asking how other GG's deal with the turmoil you are experiencing. Not all feel as you do but I for one do feel similar to you and can realate to all your posts. As far as how I deal with it is I am seeing a Therapist and have made a few online GG friends I talk to on the phone. I have not joined the GG section yet I mostly read the posts and rarely reply but I think your post is a good one. Like you I am a very honest person don't like making up stories cause I'm not a good lier but yet I don't want the world to know and it is a private matter. I am having my ups and downs about everything and there are times I'd like to be able to talk to my sister about something in my life that is so dramatic that I need her support and love during those times I am feeling low. My husband feels bad that I can't talk to her because the timing is just not right yet for HIS SECRET to be out and that helps me that he understands. We are talking that eventually we will tell a few select loved ones but for now I just think about that if I do tell anyone they will have all the questions like I did that my husband didn't really have the answers to and I do want to be prepared when I do tell someone. I also have to consider what is going in their lives and what impact it will have so for now no easy answers it does help to know that someone else out there feels the same way though.

When i first told my now ex wife,and i told her when we first started getting serious,I felt she desearved to know ,and af she didnt chose to accept it we wouldnt have wasted along time togather.But any way i told her how i am not ashamed of who or what i am and she could tell whom ever she wanted,,Now that i am out completely I dont ask my friends and family to hide it,,As a matter of fact i encourage them to go ahead and tell every one they know.That way i dont have to worry about who knows and who doesnt.Not every body was cool with it ,but i havent been hassled about it.The people who are cool with me have told me and i am very welcome to visit them dressed fem any time i chose,But i always ask first so they know what i will be wearing when i get to their house,What made me feel so good was the general rule with my friends,(most are married couples )If i am at their house and someone comes over and has a problem with how i look,,They can leave.I was talking about that while at one of my friends house and said that if i was visiting him and his wife and other guests came over and couldnt handle it ,i would leave to keep from making it uncomfortable for everyone,,My male friend kind of got mad and told me that he wouldnt let me leave,,i was there first and he would throw anyone out personally if they did or said anything

When I met my wife to be and long before we married I told her everything and said if you want to jump ship now is the time. Well she didn’t and over time I was forced so far back into the closet I found her clogs she lost in 1985!
Look if I liked dressing like a klingon (from star trek) or even Fred Flintstone there would be no problem but sense it is as a woman then there is a big deal. The bedroom thing is the best point made here I have never revealed the last time I had intercourse to my family and (thank god ) they don’t tell me. The thought of Aunt Judy and Uncle John doing it is truly revolting but they do (I would hope they do, they had children at least they did at one time) but I don’t want to know about it. The same is true for my bedroom or even night stalking habits. Besides when was the last time you heard of some one losing their job for going to a Star Trek convention. Come out in some jobs and your career can be measured in seconds.
Have a woman wear a three piece suite that a man would and it is sheik but turn the tables and there is no end to the questions.

Look I am not the one to advise my marriage was dead in 26 years so what do I know, but that was not what killed it didn’t help but there was underling resentment because I was open and honest and she did not follow thru with her word so live and learn!

The “secret” you keep is one in your bedroom it belongs to you two not your parents or you girlfriends maybe your sex therapist but NO one else love him/her for what he is when he is or find some one you can. Believe me “playing” and doing this half way will only result in lost time (and do I know about that) and hard feelings.

Sorry to be so long winded and hope I have been of some help(any help)!!:2c:

Sincerely,
Khimme

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Originally Posted by Tina Dixon

A little question here! Why is keeping a secret thought of as a lie?

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Because like a lie it can be discovered, and the consequences of that might be undesired.

Going back to the beginning post of this thread: all the more reason for a man to come out, so others can come out too.

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Originally Posted by Tree GG

I am so tired of hearing how hard it is for a big, strong man to reveal his CDing to his partner and how it's oh so unfair that the SO doesn't immediately jump on the gender duality bandwagon as a spokesperson. I'm sure it is hard, don't get me wrong, but the femme personality traits were never hidden as much as you guys seem to think. We knew about them, we even liked them or we wouldn't have been attracted.

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[SIZE="3"]Your point is valid, for me I had to accept that this "IS" just who I am and until I could do that I put my whole life in termoil. Now I couldn't cared who knows, I am not out to work or family, but if they were to find out "My Secret" I would not deny it, more that likely would be relieved. For me this has become more the norm than just something I do.[/SIZE]