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Um... Ema, I'm left-handed. How was that stimulated environmentally? ~10% of the population is wired the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ema1234 GG
Perhaps one of the reasons many of us stick firmly with genetics is that so many people outside this community assume it's a choice - whereas the vast majority of us have spent many years trying not to be like this and failing? :idontknow:
Oh, Deja.... If only t'were true. :sad:Quote:
Originally Posted by deja true
Diddo for meQuote:
Originally Posted by AmandaM
Kerry Lee
we are not born cross dressers we are born transsexuals only most are still in denial. out of fear..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ema1234 GG
this is not a choice. it has been encoded during our creation from conception we have no choice. it is not in any way the result of environmental stimuli. so whats next another type of stimuli to cure us because if some believe this is learned then it can be unlearned.
I've been through some rough bouts with depression over shoving myself in the back of my mind. Allthough, I didn't really know what depression was until I hooked up with my SO alittle over a year ago, so I didn't know I was depressed.Quote:
I feel as though I don't have a choice. Depression and anxiety are the door prizes of resistance.
Like many of you girls I started at age 4; too young to have made any kind of life choice like this. Unfortunatly my parents let me know right away that wearing Mom's pantyhose was "bad, wrong, you're dad will be mad." That taught me to hide and feel shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaM
In the past few years I have found where I do have a choice. I can remain in the shame I was taught or I can follow my genetic imperitive and embrace who I am.
Loud and proud of who I am offers hope and joy. Trying to deny who I am offers only depression and anxiety as Amanda points out.
MJ, if you'd said we were all trans or TG, I'd agree with you - but we don't all need to transition, or need medical intervention? We are all driven to different degrees.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ
Gender isn't binary - and it's fluid.
At the least, I'm a crossdresser, if I must use a title. I may be alot more, who knows? I do know this, I am gender enhanced, period. I really wish we all would stop using titles, and all become simple, "gender enhanced".
:iagree: Just to stir the pot a bit, I found this article from Science Daily, it's a bit old but has some interesting research that somewhat supports how this could possibly develop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna the Dub
American Association For The Advancement Of Science (2005, February 28). Defining Male And Female -- Research Casts Further Doubt On Newborn Sex-assignment Surgeries. ScienceDaily. Retrieved November 16, 2008, from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0223144619.htm
Christy
MJ I could not say it any better my self I truly believe it is genetics I have done a lot of sole searching and that is my conclusion genetics at least that is what I believe with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ
I was born a crossdresser, ever since I was little I remember wearing either my mother's clothes or my sister's. God forbid if they knew that now. Lol. I don't think it is a choice. It gives us the opportunity to express our feminity in a natural way. Too bad society does not understand and accept this. I'm not a sissy, yet it seems that that is how society percieves us as.
Something we are born to be but fueled by lifestyle.
I was born this way. At times, I wish I would have been born the entire way as a GG.
i believe that some of the factors that make us cling to the crossdressing is partly hormonal at birth but that nuture has a lot more to do with it than we think. how many of us had a very motherly mom, and maybe an older sisiter i have spent my life seeking answers. the course of like is ever changing and we store every sense 24/7 and we process this info continuously. so ewstregen starts the process(emotions). then reinforced with girly behavior sent to us from mother and older female siblings.
there are 3 now ex *** Cross Dresser *** who are now full time and transitioning this year alone from this very site .Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicki B
how many will do the same next year. what does that tell you ?
hi all, there was a study done in asui. by a great genetic scietist. and he discovereed a gene that had been mutated. i think thats how they explaned it. but al most all transgendered indaviduals had this gene. ????????????/
I really believe we were born crossdresser. How else do you explain dressing up at such ages as 3 or 4 without someone doing for. I know I started dressing before I knew what a crossdresser was. I am now beginning to accept and embrace this part of me.
Then what about the Genderqueer?Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ
Being both genders or neither publicly requires more guts then transitioning entirely.
Nope, there must be degrees of transexuality just as there are mild, moderate and severe cases of autism or mild moderate and severe cases of being intelligent like any other neurological variations.
Logically, morally and ethically true. Alas people are encouraged not to think and to accept such blatent double-standards and dichotmomies and most of all to avoid self-awareness. Self aware people are harder to sell rubbish too you see.Quote:
Originally Posted by deja true
But there is no-one who can give a decent reason to justify such a double standard. All it takes is people learning to think.
I was born with an over developed fem side. As a child in a southern conservative household where one is expected to fit into the traditional gender roles. I believe my repression of this fem side drew me to secretly wearing my Mom's and sister's clothes as the only way to express this side of me. These 2 halves are at constant odds, sure it was easier to control it when I was younger but now the battle has intensified. All I want is bring the 2 halves together in one complete and happy person. I am fem and masculine regardless of the clothes I wear, it shouldn't matter what I am wearing, its how I feel that is important.
Well, I for one made the decision when I was two or three years old after analysing all the lifestyle options out there and comparing and contrasting them that cross-dressing was the right choice for me, and never looked back!
I don't think a child at that age can make those kind of analytic decisions, but it was certainly ingrained in me about that early in my life. I agree with Katie B that this is likely a congenital issue, with either a genetic basis or pre-disposition, or some type of influence during the pre-natal period. Sure, a lot of our experiences lead us to repress a lot of our behaviour, or for some whose family may dress them up or whatever, may allow those feelings to come out more easily and openly, but it is certainly not any kind of 'decision' that the vast majority of us make. Sure, an actor that dresses in women's clothes for a role they play makes a decision to do that, but that does not make them a cross-dresser in our sense. They are not nagged by a compulsion to dress that worsens the longer they go without doing it like most (I believe I am right in speaking for most of us on this) of us do.
As for it being a purely environmental influence, I find that as hard to accept as the pure genetic cause that is so hard to prove. I hear stories all the time of the overnurturing mother, the hard and cold mother, the sisters dressing a guy up as a child, the kid that was punished for wearing his mothers clothes or saying he wanted to play with dolls or be a girl, the softie dad, the overly macho dad, the boy with all brothers and male influences who lacked the feminine influence, the boy with all sisters and a single mom who lacked the male influence, etc. All of these situations can make sense as to why they might 'drive' a boy to cross-dress, but there are so many opposing situations and causes that I don't see any real common threads there. If it truly were all environmental and upbringing, then I would expect to hear certain similarities in the stories of cross-dressers growing up, and also would expect a certain ability to predict, seeing a young boy in a similar situation, that he will become a cross-dresser (without knowing anything else about him), and I certainly have not seen that.
Whatever the cause, I am kind of glad I have it now, as it is really quite a pleasant affliction as long as I can accept it and not feel I have to constantly repress it. :)
That's my two pennies worth.
Actually the brain-scans indicate that gays and lesbians are a different kind of transexual, in that they have parts of their brains more like those found in the opposite sex but different parts of the brain to that which has been found often in Transexuals that is more like their self-identified sex than their birth anatomy sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie B
So in fact Gays and Lesbians do currently appear to be a different kind of transexual but yes, transexual.
No-ones doing enough research on crossdtressers to know if we are a third catagory, a variation on transexuals or just people with mild amounts of transexualisation of the brain.
Well I did well enough to suppress my feminine feelings in my teens that it was often only a few times a year i'd actually remember how I felt about these things and would cry myself to sleep wishing I'd wake up a woman. The rest of the time I managed to 'not think about it' and would literally forget it most of the time. I think that was an experience of being in denial. Much of it I only remembered clearly after starting to come to terms with my CDing.Quote:
In my view, the whole 'denial' thing is a Freudian con-trick which means "I'm a psychoanalyst, I'm cleverer than you, if I can't fit you into my categories I can always claim you're in denial. It's logically impossible to prove either way, so you can't get out of it."
But people lying to themselves, convincing themselves that something is true when it's not and vice-versa is a known phenomenon! Hypnosis can't exist without it!Quote:
You might as well say all right-handed people are left-handers in denial, it's just as logical.
Now indeed much of psychology is flawed, often lacking proper methodology. However you cannot render non-existent phenomena like hypnotic pain-resistence and psychosomatic reactions just because they don't fit your paradigm. If the material evidence conflicts with the theory then the theory is incomplete or it is partially or totally wrong. So while the explanation for and understanding of the phenomena is clearly incomplete you can't rule out the existence of the phenomena just because it is yet to be understood.
Emmi,
I believe that almost all cross-dressers are born 'wired' this way. I certainly am! I think it's built into us...Sarah was present in me from a very early age and, if life choices had been different when I was younger (early 1960s) I'd almost certainly have opted for a 'full-time' female role as Sarah, letting my male side wither and die away.
Sarah
Hi Emmi.
You can't decide how to feel but you can decide how to act, therefore I believe we are born with a more prominant girly side than non crossdressing guys. How we express our girly side is an active choice we all make. Just my :2c:
The old joke is 'What's the difference between a TV/CD and a TS?? Two years.'Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ
Of course, sometimes it's true - but not always. That implies we can only be either male, or female (what I meant by binary) - and, for myself, I know I'm something of both and sit happily somewhere in the middle? :)
I to feel I was born this way. I have been dressing since I was a child. It feels natural to me, I'm more relaxed and clear minded when dressed feminine
Knew I loved dressing and knew I had to hide it from as far back as I can remember... I think it's biological, maybe not genetic but, somewhere in my chemistry for whatever reason.
I'm in agreement with Karren H! Have no clue as to whether the desire is genetic, biological, or whatever! And you know what? I don't give a "hoot"!!!!
I dress because I like the fit, feel, and look of feminine things. Not for sexual reasons at all. Been doing this thing for over 60 years and the reasons haven't changed! But under the silk and satin, or whatever, I am still the same male I was at birth!! O.K., maybe a little worn, but hey I have been around the block a few times!!
Over these many years I have done a lot of research, and come up with a whole lot of "answers." Depends on whose book you read, or who you listen to. But I think a lot of us dress simply because we like to! Is that "genetic," or the way we were raised? Do any of us really care?? I know I don't!!
Stephanie
Lady on the outside, but man underneath
I was born as a cross dresser, although I hate that word and prefer transgender. As long as I can remember I have always wanted to be a woman and just really adored women and not just in a sexual sense. To me there is a certain level of mystique that women have. I am making no claims to being a scientist that has conducted years of research but I do believe that transgender is part of the make-up of our brains whether or not we started at a young age or later in life. I base this on the fact that what else would cause a man to put on woman’s clothing at free will. Having said that, yes there are those that it is purely a sexual fulfillment and they get nothing else out of it. But for most of us here it is more. It is part of who we are. Once we are able to accept that we have no shame in what we do. It is just one small (or large) component of what we are.
You be the judge..http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/...ingtheUrge.htm
[SIZE="4"]The question of nature vs. nurture is probably the second most discussed question in the CD community. (I think the first is "When/How should I tell my spouse/SO/girlfriend about my crossdressing?" The third most discussed question probably "Is crossdressing a sin?")
Science has not found any genetic markers for crossdressing. There is no evidence to suggest that it is hereditary. There may be instances of father/son, uncle/nephew, brother/brother, cousin/cousin crossdressing, but these are so few and far between that it eliminates it being hereditary.
Some have suggested some sort of hormone imbalance ("natal wash") while in the womb. There is no way to scientifically explore this. How many CDers today know what hormones were flowing through their mother during pregnancy? None...
How about some sort of mutation that happened? Mutation would result in some sort of intersex condition. Certainly not all crossdressers are intersexed and not all intersex people are crossdressers.
How about "nurture", environment, or the way we were raised? Certainly being exposed to crossdressing at an early age can account for some of our population. However, not all of us were exposed to it in a positive manner. Some of us grew up in environments that were neutral or negative to crossdressing.
So the answer to nature vs. nurture has to be "none of the above"... This really doesn't answer the question... If it is "none of the above", then what is it? (And no matter what the answer is we ARE responsible for our actions!)
One of the things we all have in common is our inability to stop the act of crossdressing for a long period of time without suffering mental anguish. SOMETHING happened to us, SOMETHING changed us making us different than other men, making us feel excitement by crossdressing where other men would be neutral or maybe even disgusted or repulsed if they had to crossdress... There is a huge gap between us and other men and no one knows what caused that gap nor how to bridge it.
Other threads have pondered if there are any "ex-crossdressers" around... The general consensus is "no"... It seems that there is no bridge for us to travel across that gap to join the other men... Nor is there a bridge from the other side to us... How many men after they enter adulthood who crossdress for some reason such as Halloween and have had no exposure to crossdressing in their formative years become CDers?
There is an answer out there to the nature vs. nurture question. Until science is ready to commit time and resources to studying this, I don't think this question will ever be solved.
In my opinion, I was born a male and I am a man no matter what I am wearing, how I look, or what I am thinking... And I will always be a man no matter what I do to my body and no matter what chemicals I ingest. Whether I like it or not is immaterial...
Peace,
Robyn[/SIZE]
Yep, I reckon you are right on, Robyn, I agree 110%.
Yep, who curiously picked up that pair of panties, stockings or bra for the very first time with the urge to 'try this'. I know I did, myself, with no outside influence or control over the matter.Quote:
So the answer to nature vs. nurture has to be "none of the above"... This really doesn't answer the question... If it is "none of the above", then what is it? (And no matter what the answer is we ARE responsible for our actions!)
Janie
With me personally, I think it's both. I was born with the urge and desire to dress as a woman, so I have chosen to act on those urges. Granted, I doubt I could stop if I chose to do so (not that I would want to) but I'm sticking that for me, it's a little of both :D
I think it is some of both ... we do make estrogens, 'tho not much of them, perhaps we are wired a bit differently, we probably have early experiences that influence us ... whatever, I'm happy that whatever made me the way I am did so!Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie Gunn
Claire
I believe I was born more female than male. A lot more. When I was growing up, I didn't have to worry about labels. I could just be me.
Lanore
I doubt I was born a cross dresser. However a recent test taken through a post on this forum tends to show me 87% feminine and 13% male. I do cook, sew, and many household chores which tend to push me to believe that somewhere along my early stages of life I tended to drift more to my feminine side. I do not dress 24/7 and probably never will. I just enjoy the time that I can dress and feel comfortable while doing it.
Dawn,
Interesting in reading how you see household chores as femme thing to do. Not pokeing at you but it is how soceity sees it for the most part. What I will find interesting is if you will have the same reaction as I recieved in some sort of a lynch mob. Maybe not because how you presented it was in a different approach than I. Mine was used as an example to prove a needless point.
Oy. The "nature vs. nurture" debate again...
My standard answer: It's irrelevant at best. Crossdressing is fun, so enjoy it while you can. The bigots don't have a leg to stand on either way.
My personal answer: A mix of both, really. I say it's about 70-30 in favor of lifestyle.
I like crossdressing because I like the sense of peace I get from tapping into my femininity. I like the intense pleasure I get from the connecting deeply with women through it. I've been this way for as long as I can remember.
But that's not the whole story. There's also a more...political part to it that I just can't ignore. I've never thought too highly of popular "masculinity", so I've never really had any shame over it--quite the opposite. From the minute I heard of it, I saw it as an excellent way of "breaking out" of that box society tries to lock all males in.
RayaThats a damn good point. I dont like to conform to what society perceives as right, either.Quote:
But that's not the whole story. There's also a more...political part to it that I just can't ignore. I've never thought too highly of popular "masculinity", so I've never really had any shame over it--quite the opposite. From the minute I heard of it, I saw it as an excellent way of "breaking out" of that box society tries to lock all males in.
Good question.. and extremely deep by the way.. I'm not sure, but for me to explain why I like to dress in female clothing is beyond my ability.. I have many times on my own site (myspace) and here tried to explain why I like to dress the way I do.. I've called myself a pervert, psyco, semi-sick in the head.. to normal.. who hasn't dressed a different way.. either as a cowboy (costumes for halloween) or just for fun.. the fact that I'd rather dress as my sister (I don't have a sister) is irrelevant.. or maybe it's relevant.. I don't know.. I had this "Cross dressers manifesto" that I had written both by myself and from sites all over the internet(s) but it was over fifty pages (100 front to back) with entries from here and all sorts of places to explain in great detail why I dress and that there are others who dress (so I didn't come off being a singled out sick individual).. I went back and read it.. or I should say I started to read it and it got tedious right quick.. then a few weeks ago started to read it again and had to stop after three pages and realized that if I couldn't read it, then how could I expect anyone else to make an attempt.. I was so sure it would explain it all.. it was a yawner.. so I edited it down to about five pages and am still not convinced it is the document I want to tell the world (my family) why I crossdress.. so there it is then.. ten minutes of writing a response that tells you nothing... feel cheated??.. now you know how I feel...
This is a question I have tried to answer all my life. I can, with a reasonable amount of certainty, say that it is unlikely I will ever know the answer. Crossdressing doesn't seem to rank very high on the list of tasks for medical researchers.....
However.......
Of the two choices I feel that, for me at least, there must be some kind of genetic reason for being a crossdresser. I started dressing at around the age of 8. But I do have recollections of crawling around on the floor while wearing my mothers shoes and enjoying the feel of her clothes as far back as 3 or 4 years old. I tried putting on one of her dresses once somewhere between the age of 4 and 8 and was severly reprimanded and punished and told sternly that boys don't do that. Little boys don't where girls clothes! I just couldn't understand why I couldn't wear a pretty dress. The ground rules were set rather early in my childhood. I tried again some time after that and was severly beaten by my father. Boys were boys and girls were girls and that was it! I was confused. I thought, "Why can't I wear pretty clothes?"
At around 7 years old I began to feel that I just had to be able to wear girls clothes. Fearing punishment and another beating I secretly began putting on my mothers panties and stockings when the opportunity arose. The very first time I did that it felt natural and I remember again wondering why I couldn't wear pretty clothes. At that age there was no sexual drive or turn on to wearing the clothes, I just felt like it was right to wear them but I was told that it was wrong! Confusion reigned!
With the lessons of childhood I truly don't believe it was ever a choice to crossdress.
in this regard, i think it is a little bit of both for me. i have done for a long time but at the same time when i wasnt able to do it freely it was like a knife in the heart.....
I wish people would learn more about biology before thinking about the origins of CDs.
First of all our genes contain instructions on how to build a biological body - they are like construction blueprints. They do not indicate what color a tenant on the 23 floor will paint his room 10 years in the future. Crossdressing has got zip all to do with genetics.
We are born with some hard wired knowledge necessary or valuable for our survival. Babies know to suck when something is placed in their mouths, they know to hold their breath when under water. We also have behaviors like the fight or flight response when adrenaline is immediately released into our bloodstreams when danger is detected. There is nothing about crossdressing that is about survival or provides an advantage in the natural surroundings that we are designed for.
The hormone wash theory is stupid from the start. Our brains grow continuously not just for the 9 months in the womb but also for the first year outside the womb. The only way to get a female brain is to be constantly bathed in female hormones for the 21 months it takes for a complete brain to develop. And even then this is immaterial as our brains are constantly renewing themselves as cells die and are replaced throughout our lives and this process is subjected to the hormones in our bodies i.e. testosterone.
This only leaves one option. We are crossdressers because of our individuality. Our brains are a myriad of billions upon billions of cells each linked together in a complex manner. These interconnections are constantly being renewed so our personalities and behaviors can alter over time. Everyone has a unique pattern of connections which gives us our unique personalities. You can give people the same input information but we all spit out different answers.
There is no such thing as being born a crossdresser. We were born with a unique personality within the norms of human beings or else we would not have developed into a normal adult. Everything else from that basic personality platform is learned behavior. It is how each of our individual brains organizes and interprets the world around us that determines what sort of person we will grow to be.
I am amazed to see people write off their early baby years as if the behaviors that will lead us to crossdressing could not possibility have developed then. During the first five years children absorb truly massive amounts of information. A five year old can do many things which even the most powerful computers in the world are unable to match such as learning language. We learn a great deal about gender roles through observing the world around us. After 5 years we had 1825 days to observe how males and females look and behave.
Since gender roles are artificially created by society, everything we know and understand about gender was learned. There is nothing intrinsic about our gender behavior, we were born without any knowledge of gender roles, essentially everyone is brain gender neutral when born.
We all learn to think about gender in our own unique ways. Some of us as children thought of it as something pliable and open to change to suit our personal likes and dislikes. Others conformed to the idea that gender should be fixed and cannot be altered. These thoughts drift through our minds on a subconscious level so we don't remember making deliberate conscious decisions on gender.
No-one decides to be a CD, rather we explore something, in this case female clothing, find we like it for whatever reason and if we believe gender can be something that can be molded to better fit our own personality then we bend society's rules and secretly become CDs through repeated thoughts and actions which strengthens the pathways in our brains until the behavior becomes natural and instinctive.
Remember all behaviors are common to all humans irregardless of gender. To believe that you need to have a female brain or be genetically different to enjoy normal human behavior is silly. It is only society's rules that makes us believe we are different from others. We are not. Period.
I think it's genetic it also a choice , we dress cuz we want, need, have, love, to. I love everything about it. HUGGS :canada:Quote:
Originally Posted by emmicd
Satrana, that has got to be the best I have read on the topic.I have always found it funny when someone claims that they were 'born' a crossdresser, as I thought it would be impossible, and it nothing more than learned behaviour.:^5:Quote:
There is no such thing as being born a crossdresser. We were born with a unique personality within the norms of human beings or else we would not have developed into a normal adult. Everything else from that basic personality platform is learned behavior. It is how each of our individual brains organizes and interprets the world around us that determines what sort of person we will grow to be.
Janie
I am not a Bio Scientist but has anyone ever heared of GENETIC TIME BOMBS? Maybe crossdressing could be tied to one who knows but the truth of the matter is no one knows for sure why it happens. For some it could be a behaviour choice or sexual fetish I know at the age of 3 it would hardley be a sexual fetish ,I don't think it was a behaviour choice either not remembering any other reason for the urge to do it accept doing it and paying dearly for doing so. I have a human brain so I don't blame that either . Not much of a life style at age 3 either.. Wait maybe it was a genetic time bomb.
hi...a choice .... or .... something else . i am left handed . i write with my right hand be cause i was told to at school ....conforming .... i was a picher for our baseball team . i was to fast i was told when training go back 30 ft . still to fast . okay use your right hand . i did like a girl. that was fine till i throw a lift.y ...he he... they did not like .it....i am wired both male & female . i was told you are a boy. be a boy. yet i was a girl in side . a choice ... not mine . theirs .... 50 years of their choices ..11 years ago . no more the choice was made . not mine. to live as me a women . my comment is if you wont a word . programed .... brain wired ...that... is not a choice . nor did it have any thing to do with how we were brought up . so its no wonder we are like we are . even after all of this i am happy being just me a women . i think the mix is right for me. now ...i cant change it nor do i wont. to because i am free....... to be me ...... ...noeleena...
What about the evidence for a myriad of gene-behaviour connections then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
But the brain, like the rest of the body goes through stages of growth and development, it's not a steady-state but one of bursts. And there is only so much regrowth. Only some who suffer substantial brain damage are lucky enough to have their brains rewire around the damagedd sections so that other brain parts can take over the role of the dmaged areas.Quote:
The hormone wash theory is stupid from the start. Our brains grow continuously not just for the 9 months in the womb but also for the first year outside the womb. The only way to get a female brain is to be constantly bathed in female hormones for the 21 months it takes for a complete brain to develop. And even then this is immaterial as our brains are constantly renewing themselves as cells die and are replaced throughout our lives and this process is subjected to the hormones in our bodies i.e. testosterone.
The 'plastic brain' only strecthes and chages so far!
What about the data and studies documented on Zoe Brain's blog?
I've said it many times, Emmi, but couldn't have said it better than you. We were born this way, so we might as well accept it and enjoy it. Which is what I do. I wouldn't change things for the world.
What was I thinking , making this "life style" choice at 9 years old:doh:
Kelsy:)