Why the desire to pass?

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Originally Posted by Hope

Silly me, I thought you were asking a serious question. I didn't realize you were trying to make a point.

How FU(#ING DARE you tell me what I do and don't have to be. I don't have to do one GD effing thing to please you. What I DO need to do is pass, or at least come as close as possible for me, and it would be nice if, while claiming the right to not pass, or even try - you would be kind enough to extend the same sort of consideration to others.

It's awfully nice that you feel comfortable as a guy in a skirt. Shouldn't everyone be just like you! Then the world would be a happy place full of joy and bunnies.

Sadly, some of us feel differently. Not all of us want to be guys in skirts. Some of us are evil "trying to pass" trannies, some of us are even *GASP* women trapped in this existence. Some of us are pretty bloody horrified living as men and will do just about anything we can to NOT be identified as men. Being a "guy in a skirt" doesn't make it better, even if you think it should. Sorry for ruining your party.

But you are right, you SHOULD have the right to be a guy in a skirt. Just like I should have the right to try my best to NOT be a guy in a skirt. You can't have it both ways.

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I am by no means trying to tell you what you do and do not have to be.

But, on that note my dear, you insinuated that being a guy in a dress is being

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Originally Posted by Hope

... a freak...

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Now, if you had said you see your masculine self in a dress as a freak, that would have made more sense and been much less accusing.

Now, I never said you were evil, I never said I was better, and I have stated that I will

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Originally Posted by tonixd

... defend [being passing, wearing makeup, etc.] all the more to those who would attack my sisters, and that I won't stand for.

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So, next time you post, read all of the posts, think before you type, and check unbridled emotion at the door.

Thank you.

And thank you Sherri for trying to be the peace maker.

Alright folks, let's dial out the animosity and start being civil to one another.

Holly
Super Moderator

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Originally Posted by MarciManseau

For me, it was to be accepted as who I really am, being welcomed into the world as an attractive woman...

ps: I see where you live now. Don't you love the southern tier, especially in the fall? :) Howdy, neighbor

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Lol, love WNY in the fall, but it sucks in the winter.

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Originally Posted by Ugly Michele

To project the me, that I feel. I would like to look as lady like as posible so I project the lovlyness I feel.

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Originally Posted by AlanaBCD

I want to feel pretty. ...I want everyone that sees me to see me as a attractive woman.

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

I only wish to LOOK like a female. I can't pass as one, so why try?

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Originally Posted by sherib

Why, because I want to look like a women. Look as good as a women look in a dress. Feel a sentuous as a women feel when she's dressed up. I don't wnat to just look like a guy in a dress.

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Originally Posted by matt_pantyhose

Really for me, I guess I just want to be believed as what I'm trying to look like..if that makes sense. And I also guess it's just that I want to avoid all the awkward glances. :o

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Lol. Most of us are never going to avoid the awkward glances, hun. I wish that the glances didn't have to exist at all. Check out my blog. I did a devientart recently that mentions that.

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Originally Posted by Ruth

I try to pass as well and you might not think so from my avatar but I am fairly successful.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Situational needs and desires. When in Rome...yada yada.

Challenge met (I can and do "pass" when I want to), so that is out. Like the clothes but don't have to be totally dressed to the nines. That is more (less?) an issue as I age because I don't NEED the extra frills and pomp. So when I do want to "Pass" (still hate that phrase...need something else) I want to pass like a high end classy dressed to the max woman who wants the paparazzi to stop and use a whole roll of film. Otherwise I be happy just being me :)

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Originally Posted by Violetgray

Passing is a by-product of the goal I set for myself. I think women are beautiful, and it's just a beauty that I want for myself.

Just so happens, women pass as women.

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Originally Posted by tricia_uktv

I want to project the inside of me to the rest of the world. It actually doesn't bother me if I pass or not but I love feeling and looking feminine so will always try to do the best I can to be so.

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Originally Posted by LisaM

For me it is not about 'passing' but about becoming the woman I have always felt inside. Putting on partial clothing does not accomplish that for me; nor would getting dressed and looking like a man from the shoulders up.

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Originally Posted by sherri52

Woman represent the beauty of man. I just want to be like them.

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Originally Posted by Hope

I try to pass because I want to be seen as and be accepted as a woman...............

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Originally Posted by CherylFlint

mental image of being a female + physical image of being a female = passing

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Originally Posted by SarahLynn

I have never dressed to pass, but to please myself. When I have fully dressed, I dressed to present the most complete feminine appearance I could within the bounds of polite society.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

...why try to pass? because you want to to!
Pot meet kettle...you are both black...now shake hands and be friends

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Lol... this makes me laugh. I like you Kaitlyn.

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Originally Posted by Hope Little

I just do it for myself because i love all the time spent putting makeup on ad experimenting with new colors.

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Originally Posted by Jocelyn Quivers

In a very simple answer is it's just how my femme side is wired and I no longer really question or wonder why my femme side is that way.

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I like alot of these answers. I like Jocelyn's the best. It is just how the feminine side is wired. I like that because it's concise, though out, and hard for anyone else to argue with.
:gayflag:

On that same note, and I've edited these statements out of the quotes, but what I do, not try and pass, has been called:

1. sissy boy
2. weirdness might be contagious
3. draw the attention to some weirdo
4. a pervert in a dress
5. a freak
6. to mess with people's minds
7. to get off
8. that the desire to pass should be the goal of every crossdresser

Mostly these were made in the context of what others might think. I would like to challenge this thinking. I believe it to be anti-trans. There are several of us who posted who do not try and pass, and we are none of the aforementioned things.

I asked the original question in an attempt to understand. I wanted to understand because I have been asked innumerable times why I don't wear wigs and makeup. My theory was if I could find out why some of my sisters do, it would help me find out why some people think I should.

But, unintentionally, I have uncovered what is either bias or internalized fear towards not passing in some of these posts. That frightens me. It frightens be because if we cannot accept each other, how can society at large ever learn to?

I would gladly fight for the right for each one of my sisters on here (epically Sherri because she rocks :) ) to wear and dress exactly how the dictates of there hearts demand. We need to stand up together, fight together, and not let this internalized fear or bias stop us from achieving our goal.

Who is with me?

[SIZE="3"] Passing is over rated, I stopped trying to pass a while ago, when out I try to blend, you wouldn't wear a mini skirt to a funeral. I dress appropriately to where I'm going, maybe a little upscale but to often in a nice tight pair of jeans, and a nice top, a dress when I can. It's the accessories that make me stand out, nice shoes or boots, jewelry, belts, bags and maybe a hat. Not too much makeup, during the daytime, more at night. I find it’s my confidence that takes me far, my head is up, I make eye contact, I belong where I am. I make casual conversation in as best of feminine voice as I can. Do I get read? Yes, at times. Do I care? No, just as long as they treat me as a woman. The question of partial dressing was brought up. For me my version of “Drab” is partial dressing, for that is my own hair, I wear small hoop earrings all the time, I only wear women’s jeans for I feel they fit me better. I carry a man’s shoulder bag. Without the makeup I get missed and maamed and it feels good. I act the same way no matter how I’m dressed. It’s all about what makes me feel good, and that’s what should matter more than anything. [/SIZE]

Why do I try to pass? Let me count the reasons.

1. When I'm out and dressed, no one knows who I am, if someone I know should see me.
2. It avoids a lot of snickering, laughing and pointing, especially by kids.

3. It cuts down on the chance of someone thinking me a pervert, and doing me violence.

4. It makes me feel more feminine, which is why I dress in the first place!

5. It still takes my breath away, when I see myself reflected in a store window at night.
6. I,m a perfectionist, and I never do anything half assed.

7. When I walk down the street, people are more likely to think,"That woman has great legs", rather than thinking "Look at that creepy guy wearing a dress".

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Originally Posted by tonixd

Who is with me?

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I don't know how to be with you. I'm not sure what your point is.

If you really did ask this question, as you said, to figure out why other people that aren't crossdressers ask you why you don't wear wigs, why ask us? We're not those other people. We don't know what they're thinking, nor would we know why they assume anything about a group they're not associated with. It's probably just a generalization. If you're questioning why a generalization exists, who knows?

Why do people think whites are dorks and that women love shoe shopping? Why do people assume gamers are fat virgins and cat owners are reclusive and riddled with dementia? Why do people throw a blanket term like "Drag Queen" over transgenders and assume we're all Ru Paul clones?

I don't know. Not a soul on here knows why people are morons. They just are.

Frankly, in regards to the people that are asking you why you're not totally decked out in drag, I wouldn't associate with them or bother answering their questions. Do they also ask little people why they're not in their treehouses making cookies, too?

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Originally Posted by MarciManseau

For me, it was to be accepted as who I really am, being welcomed into the world as an attractive woman, not reviled and bullied as a sissy boy, bad at sports, not worth having as a friend because my weirdness might be contagious.

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I enjoy being out and not hassled.

I think wearing makeup in good taste helps transform the appearance of a male to a female. Many manly features can be covered up with makeup applied properly

I believe my desire to pass is just to be able to go anywhere without anyone trying to determine if your real women or a man in a dress. How many times while your walking around in the mall looking at other women and say to yourself. I would never be caught dead looking like that. You wonder why some real women go out dressed the way they do. I want to be able walk any where if someone look at you they say, she looks good in that dress or what ever your wearing.

for me its not the desire to pass as much as to be accepted for what I am,

I guess for some it is a thrill. Some like to try and go out into public and try and pass. So it takes wigs and LOTS and LOTS of make-up. Sadly enough most will never pass because of that hormone in their body called testosterone.

This discussion has gotten me looking forward to going to cd-centric events. I hope they will encourage me to see how well i can prepare and present myself and to meet like minded women. Most of all I want to be in an evironment where i can interact without worrying those around me judging me negatively because the 'man' may be appearing around the edges of my femininity. Most of all I want to view others in an open and non-judgmental way

Ive thought about this question of yours alot toni,

I wonder if escaping who you actually are is part of it. On the flip side of that, to up n become a whole new person is rather attractive too - not that my life sucks, but its a crazy slate wiped clean sorta feeling!! Its a bit of a social experiment too.. its very interesting to be treated so differently by people you encounter. When you get alot of positive things said to your look it becomes an addiction...an obsession even. I've got a ton of reasons, mostly I just like it and it makes sense to push the envelope!

I enjoyed reading all the different takes here, and the thought some put into their answer(s). Who would have ever thought there could be so many different reasons for ones dressing!

I live,work, and play as a woman 24/7 365. Passing allows me to do just that.
Aside from what some may consider as being cliche... "I was born in the wrong body" (which BTW, is how I feel) and so I want the world to see me as a woman, there is something more that I have discovered. If you can really pull it off, it's like Alice through the looking glass.You enter into a whole new world. If you can sneak in, even for just a look see, I seriously doubt that you would ever feel that passing is over rated. I like it in there, it's what it's all about for me. It's like graduating from college. I have my degree in hand, and NOW I can move forward and live my life as a "person".... as me

As for you my feminist friend.... as to why we do what we do as opposed to what you do. I think that if you truly think about it.. you'll find the answer in your own heart and not in our heads. Different strokes for different folks. I kind of laughed when I saw your "who's with me" line. It reminded me a bit like my own self not that long ago. I was an advocate of coming out.. We all just need to come out. Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! Stay curious and keep questioning, but if you are looking for a stock answer, you'll never find one. There are probably as many different answers as there are stars in the sky.
peace out!

Kelly

Passing- definition- to convince others you are a woman.

Alternate definition- To be yourself, convincingly.

For me, I like the idea of being able to be a guy or a girl, depending on how much effort I want to put into it each day. If I'm dressed as a girl I would like to be able to go out and have no one think anything of it. I know I shouldn't care if anyone does, but to be able to pull that off would make me feel good, and that's why I dress, to enjoy it. I still enjoy it even if I don't pass but whatever, it gives me something to strive for I guess.

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Originally Posted by Megan Legz

Passing- definition- to convince others you are a woman.

Alternate definition- To be yourself, convincingly.

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As stated in another thread, I believe that passing is subjective. My defifinition is to be seen as nothing less than a woman. Which I take to be the literal.
Being that passing is subjective,people can bend it and twist it to fit their own personal need, be it either or.

for me its not for passing its to be accepted

Well, maybe we like to "pass" because
1. it's FUN
2. let's us know that our mental image of us being a female is RIGHT ON
3. it sure is FUN
fun: as in pleasing to ourselves, as in "getting it right" and being proud to have "gotten it right".

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

I live,work, and play as a woman 24/7 365. Passing allows me to do just that.
Aside from what some may consider as being cliche... "I was born in the wrong body" (which BTW, is how I feel) and so I want the world to see me as a woman, there is something more that I have discovered. If you can really pull it off, it's like Alice through the looking glass.You enter into a whole new world. If you can sneak in, even for just a look see, I seriously doubt that you would ever feel that passing is over rated. I like it in there, it's what it's all about for me. It's like graduating from college. I have my degree in hand, and NOW I can move forward and live my life as a "person".... as me

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I must admit you have a point. And I'm not just saying that cuz you're drop-dead omg gorgeous. :D

Seriously, more than once I've asked myself if passing would be more important to me if I could actually, you know, pass. Really pass, I mean. If I were young and beautiful with big doe eyes and flawless skin and naturally feminine features and a voice like a soft babbling brook and an actual *cough* waist, would I place a premium on passing?

Well, I dunno. I think it would be a trip, and I can definitely see an upside, 'specially if my life circumstances permitted going full-time. If all those stars lined up it just might change my perspective altogether and I might be even more motivated along those lines. The only thing that gives me pause, though, is this core sense of identity I have that isn't about being a woman so much as just being a feminine person (born a guy) and kind of liking people knowing that about me.

Maybe it's like fantasizing about having the power to be invisible. It's fun to imagine all the fun things you could do, what it would feel like and stuff. But really, you can't know what it would feel like unless you can do it.

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I wonder if escaping who you actually are is part of it. On the flip side of that, to up n become a whole new person is rather attractive too - not that my life sucks, but its a crazy slate wiped clean sorta feeling!! Its a bit of a social experiment too.. its very interesting to be treated so differently by people you encounter.

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Yep. That too. I like myself, and my life. But it's a real kick, to look in the mirror, and see a completely different person, and go out as that person for a while. It's kind of the best of both worlds. I consider my crossdressing as a gift! :battingeyelashes: