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My interpretation is that if you put your hands on your hips, which way your fingers point used to be aligned with gender. If your fingers pointed forwards and your thumbs pointed rearward, that indicated a masculine orientation. Fingers pointed rearwards leaned towards the feminine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
‘What we see depends mainly on what we are looking for.’
— John Lubbock
Body language is a universal language. Generally speaking, human beings all have equal capacity to display physical gestures and “cues”, whether they are female or male.
-Gestures all have somewhat of a “neutrally” defined meaning prior to considering the circumstances or person displaying them. (arms crossed across chest = “closed”).
Both males and females equally display -Some gestures. Some gestures are displayed more often or are primarily specific to one gender over the other.
-Gestures or “cues” are rarely displayed in isolation. They are typically displayed in “clusters” (groups of cues from different parts of the body that simultaneously combine to send a non-verbal “message” about the person’s emotional and/or cognitive status).
-Each of us exhibits a set of personal or “base” (baseline) gestures, movements, “tics” and expressions that we adopt which are unique, but a part of our typical “routine” when we interact with others.
For example, a subject is asked a series of specific questions prior to a lie detector test being conducted. The purpose is to establish a “baseline” (determine what characteristics are “normal” responses for that individual, and therefore have no specific “meaning” relevant in interpreting truth or deception in that individual. So they should be disregarded.) The same concept applies to body language.
-Gestures and cues must be analyzed within the context and atmosphere in which they are displayed. (arms crossed across the chest in a snowstorm may simply be an effort to stay warm.)
So just like other forms of communication, the sender and receiver always have the potential to confuse, deceive or misinterpret what is being exchanged. It has a lot to do with perceptions, as well as the people and circumstances that are present at the time of the exchange.
Correct interpretation of “body language” is not an “exact science”…it is more of an “art”. It takes time and practice to become accurate reading it, just like other skills.
It appeared to me that there were a few “exchanges” in this thread that seemed to imply there are “absolute” definitions/meanings for specific (waist) cues and gestures. That is an exercise in futility, as there are no “absolutes” to any specific cues when interpreting body language.
Just thought it might be helpful to mention that…:hugs:
I have noticed that facts, opinions, perceptions, fantasies and reality have the tendency to easily displace each other in Internet forum discourse… :confused: (just my opinion…)
:love:
When is the last time you showed up in competition, or to a sports event in girly clothes? Tell me do you really think women are not good with their hands? How many times in the last few years did you call your buddies when joking around, on jokes that had a transgendered person in it, or when they called someone fag, sissy etc? Have you told them of your enjoyment of wearing a woman's clothes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick2Nikki
In any event are the "attributes" you mention really what makes a man manly? My definition of a manly is someone who educates himself, is aware of the world around him, does not use his strength to bash the weaker, is considerate of those in need when he has plenty, is strong in his character, stoic in the carriage of his burdens and always impeccably polite and entirely capable to fend of any comers. All the others are, with respect, just boys that have refused to grow up.
Having said the above, there are many reasons that men can have their hands on their hips. John Wayne usually had them there with thumbs pointing forward because his back hurt and he needed to support himself.:D
But more generally, there is a quality to female movement, and gestures, that unequivocally will be feminine rather masculine. And men notice and as Freddy says, they too recognize that you are not one of them.
[QUOTE=eluuzion;2276735]‘What we see depends mainly on what we are looking for.’
— John Lubbock
Once again, eluuzion hits it right on the head (or is that the hand or hip?). People see what they're looking for. If you're already under suspicion, or exhibit other feminine qualities they will think anything you do is girly regardless of your size, stature or activities.
Ppppllllbhhh. Am I a manly man? As a crossdresser, I'm probably not considered one. I'm a strong loving father and husband, is that manly? I despise intolerance and violent behavior. Does that make me a girly man?
Everyone has their own interpretation of what a manly man is. It could be a good thing or a bad thing.
I've always thought a manly man is a boorish egocentric jock that makes everything a competition. He is one that enjoys belittling weaker people to elevate his status as the alpha male. He is the extreme male where he twists and contorts all male qualities into blurred aggression and recklessness.
I guess my interpretation of a manly man isn't a good one, but there are those who disagree and that's fine. As I said, it could be a good thing or a bad thing. Not everyone interprets it the same.
Ginger
About a year or so ago I was at church on a Sunday, all dressed in my clergy black, standing around with a bunch of the farmers talking about combines or something equally dull. And I decided I wanted to see what the reaction would be if I were to swap out my guy posture and comportment, for my girl posture and comportment. I tried this a few times. The differences in posture and comportment are subtle, but the reaction is usually the same - an uneasiness in the conversation, followed by a long pause, and then a disbanding of the group of guys. If you do it in a mixed gender group, the guys will all duck out and the girls will remain and continue to talk.
You have to realize that both guys and girls cross their arms and put their hands on their hips (and probably most other gestures) - but they do it differently. When a guy crosses his arms over his chest, he puts his fists under his forearms and looks strait ahead like he is trying to convince you that he would be pleased to pummel you if need be. Which is of course exactly what the pose asserts. A woman on the other hand is trying to look small and non-confrontational and non-threatening. When she crosses her arms, you can see her hands, they are cupped around the elbow, (and because her forearm is generally shorter in relation to her body) her arms are framing her bosom, and her head is tilted in a relaxed non threatening posture.
Look at the way a guy puts his hands on his hips. When the guy does it he is trying to look bigger and more imposing - it is fingers forward, elbows out, chest out, hips square, looking like he is in confident command of all he surveys. When a woman does it (unless it is a mother scolding her children - which is a totally different pose) she is again trying to look smaller and non-threatening. the thumb is forward so that the vulnerable inside of the elbow and forearm are exposed, the elbow is actually pushed back (to minimize the amount of space she is taking up) and often only one arm is on her hip, the other one is dangling by her side and her hip is rotated and or cocked.
Foot placement is the same way. Men typically stand with their feet shoulder width apart, ready to react to whatever threat they see, or ready to launch some sort of offensive action when they need to. Women on the other hand stand with their feet together, toes pointing strait ahead which rotates the femur in the hip socket to help her keep her knees together and take up less space and be less imposing. Or she will stand with her weight on one foot, and put the tip of the other one down behind her if she is feeling flirty, or perhaps if she is interested in what is happening the other foot might get placed in front of the first one.
It's not that guys do this and girls don't... it's that guys do this, this way, and girls do it that way. And if you send cross gender cues like this in the wrong persona, it freaks people out.
[SIZE="2"]Just one more thing about this. Your very revealing sentence did not read as sarcasm. If that was your intention, you failed to convey that notion. I think that you meant it, because you feel this way. I know your kind. You were just stating your position that you feel superior to anyone else with an opinion. If you wanted to be sarcastic, you should have said, “I’m being sarcastic, you know,” or “I’m just kidding.” The smilie you chose says it all -- you’re taunting someone for a reaction. Tell me this – why would you wish to be sarcastic in the first place? This is supposed to be a supportive site for transgendered people, isn’t it? I don’t see the point of rubbing everyone’s face in their purported inferiority, simply because some of us can interpret gestures, or words, for the sinister meanings they carry, all for the benefit of our collective health and safety. You should think before you submit anything, just as the author of this thread so eloquently did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick2Nikki
I haven’t been around here too long, but, frankly, I’m a little unnerved by the presence of crossdressing masculine men roaming the playground, bullying the others with sarcastic words. I came here to learn more about crossdressing, specifically by reading the words on offer from males of the female persuasion. I’ve already met many thoughtful, sensitive people in touch with their emotions. This is heartwarming. I just knew they were out there somewhere. However, I never expected to find manly males here, and that is somewhat disheartening, because I’ve been on the receiving of a lot of unwarranted harassment. Maybe someone can explain to me how a 100% male can crossdress in the first place, or, more accurately, why they would do so? How can you turn towards the feminine, time and time again, and then return to your male world as if nothing has happened? Surely one would pick up a little more female each time, modifying a staunchly male personality into something different or better? It takes all kinds, I suppose, but I’m a bit bewildered. Is it only a sexual thing? Maybe this has been discussed before. In my estimation it’s tough to be queer, and queer to be tough.
By the way, here’s a GG emoticon with hands on hips: :gg: [/SIZE]
two hips two hands.
I do sometimes catch myself standing hands on hips,but its never compelled me to swiftly alter my stance.I think it would have to be very pronounced,for the public to wonder about you.Most guys these days are more likely to be seen holding up the nearest wall,hands in pockets looking slovenly and lazy.I would rather look more feminine than looking like i was bone idle
:hugs:Sophie xx