Anne, I've been in the closet for 60 years and have never been ashamed about it. I was a teacher for more than 35 years and would have suffered the loss of my employment as well as my family's humiliation if it ever become public that I was a crossdresser. Don't let any one make you believe that you aren't living a good life.
You know, even as 'out' as I am, I still consider myself closeted - most likely because those I'm out to are strangers. Sure, I have a few members of my family, and a few friends, but for the most part no one in my 'inner circle' of friends, family, church, etc. know me as anything but a boring, skinny, slightly-effeminate guy. I'm OK with that. Anne, you should be too - no matter what some members might say.
Kathi
Anne,
In the closet myself, a choice I make. Not the one I want but it is what is best for me to be able to continue to pay the mortgage, send my kids to college etc.... I too have been chastised by others that I dont "come out" (actually not on this forum), I respect thier feeling but I have to do what is right is for my situation. Should I become financially well off or be able to retire any time soon,......................then things may change. Best of luck to you. I guess if my closet has no windows and is dark at least I can paint it pink!!!
I agree, I will open the door when I am prepared to and not when someone tries to open it for me.
Just because you want to keep some things private does not mean you are in the closet. To me, being in the closet is when you are not honest with yourself about how you feel more so than others. I'm not going to tell strangers about my health, finances, or sexual encounters, so why should I feel obligated to let everyone know about my gender (non)conformity? I will tell the people I want to tell, for reasons that are up to me to decide. Everyone who should know will know (ex: future girlfriends). My family would not understand, so it is easier to not tell them, and I am totally ok with that decision. My friends would probably, for the most part, not understand, and again I am ok with not telling them. They are not entitled to know. Some people are, though, and those are the people I will tell. And I'm totally ok with that lifestyle. I shouldn't have to stick my neck out just because someone else wants me to join their social movement because it is their motive to be out there to everyone. That's their prerogative; not mine.
Exactly right Nicole.Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleScott
Anne,
Very well put opinion and rebuttal, not everyone's circumstances allow for such a free and happy life to be anything more than closeted.
I think these "Browbeaters" also forget about the wider world where coming out could even possibly get you killed. What do you do then? Try and change society by being a Martyr? If some of these places don't respect women, what do you think will happen to anyone outside the cultural norm?
Anne I think that was an extremely well written post. The only one who has to be happy with your decisions is you. Do what makes you happy, be that in or out of the closet.
Anne, I totally agree with you! I am NOT a closeted cross dresser. I am an in-home cross dresser. Small point. I do not live in a closet and my wardrobe is kept in xerox boxes. You are totally correct, as many others have agreed, that venturing out into the world may not be as rewarding as some make it out to be. I have lived my life viewing whatever choices I make are subject to a cost benefit analysis. As far as I know the only person who knows of my cross dressing is my wife. She is NOT accepting. I wish it was otherwise, but, it is NOT! She has not deserted me. Apparently love transcends all! I do not think for one second that anybody in the outside world would be as gracious as she.
Anne that was a very well written post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, concerns, beliefs, and reasoning's. I truly do appreciate and enjoy debate and discussions just like you, and this has been a very good thread for that.
In my current situation, I could be viewed as a crossdresser who will on occasion go to LGBTQ friendly bars, aka gay bars. Some of my friends know about me, and my sister does as well. On the inside I really do identify more female than male, and transitioning is a major possibility. However I'm aware of all the consequences that could result in that action. The loss of income potential, the discrimination, the possible threats of violence, the loss of friends, and the worse would be loss of family. My journey right now is to find out where my life is most harmonious, just like everyone else's.
Where my life is harmonious isn't where your life is harmonious or anyone else's for that matter, and I think that's something a lot of people forget.
I want to be a part of the equality movement more, and really get behind the transgendered movement for equality and rights in addition to all of the LGBTQ community (Please note, that when I refer to transGENDER, I refer to the umbrella term that includes transsexuals, crossdressers, gender queer's, drag queens & kings and ect...). However for me right now, I'm not at the point where I'm able to be a leader, or the activist that I want. In due time I will be, but at this point in time there are other things going on in my life that I need to take care of before I can concentrate on the movement. In addition I'm keenly aware that not everyone can be an activist at all, and I respect that. The fact that you will support me when it is that I become an activist is enough for me.
What it comes down to the most, do what makes you happy and comfortable as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to do the same. Stay in the closet, you have my support to do so, and if you wish to come out at some point in time, I'll support you then too!
Girl there will always be militants, but that does not mean you or I or anyone else has to give into them. They have my vote, but I'm not coming out for anybody but me, and not until I'm ready, and I may never be. It's nobody's business but my own. We do not owe any group such as this the kind of sacrifice they might ask for, they don't know what it might cost you. Once I told my wife, I have never felt the need to share it with anyone else I know. My closet is very comfortable, and I'm happy in it. I understand how you feel.
Tina B.
Anne, you seemed to have kicked over a hornet's nest here...what age is this person? "Loserville?" Really? Is this place even on the map? Where is it? Is this person a resident of this place?
I've been enduring constant harassment at work for being "suspected" of crossdressing (something ridiculously irritating happened yesterday) and yet fellow cdr's on this forum have the audacity to berate those of us that choose to keep this secret hidden? Those that reveal all are such brave souls...thanks for carrying the torch for us losers. Give me a break. How can anyone fault someone for not wanting to live in a hostile/humiliating environment or to have their family life crumble? Hey if that's for you then go ahead. Advice is one thing, but the holier than thou attitude I've seen on the forum is less than helpful, and sometimes downright mean spirited. "Loserville?" Gawd.
Ginger
Kendra, I see your point and agree with your statement here. Thanks for clarifying...Quote:
Originally Posted by kendra_gurl
Well said Anne! one can express an opinion that differs without being insulting!
Not one to join any 'militant' movement or crusade, Next thing you're wearing a ghastly brown shirt and a hideous armband, tormenting anyone who doesn't..
My journey is my own, as is everyones, and should be respected for it..
Funny, but this whole topic reminded me of a poem by A.A.Milne!
Everyone has the right to sit on any stair they choose, specially if it's a comfortable/comforting one!!Quote:
The World of Christopher Robin
Halfway down the stairs
Is a stair
Where I sit
There isn't any
Other Stair
Quite like
It.
I'm not at the bottom
I'm not at the top;
So this is the stair
Where
I always
Stop.
Halfway up the stairs
Isn't up;
And Isn't down.
It isn't in the nursery,
It isn't in the town.
And all sorts of funny thoughts
Run round my head:
"It isn't really
Anywhere!
It's somewhere else
Instead!"
Lessons from the poetry of A.A. Milne, I love it! :) I used to read those to my children when they were younger. See also "Bad Sir Brian Botany." :heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskandra
One thing that bothers me here and that is the vocal divide between segments of our community. Aside from reference to "Mr. Loserville" who deserves to be taken to task, I see words used such as "bashing", "militant", "haters", etc. referring to those in different places on the gender spectrum, specifically those who lean towards the TS end. Specifically, Veronica's comment was lumped in with Mr. Loserville's vitriol when she was merely pointing out some alternate viewpoints on some things Anne presented as being givens. But then to suggest that CD'ers be given their exclusive playground away from the "evil" TS/TG's, well you already have that. It's called panty threads.
Seriously, I support everyone along the gender spectrum and hope that those of us who are out beyond the confines of our homes will continue to work together in making the out-and-about experience better for those who CHOOSE to come after us (and more importantly, for those who are 24/7). Sometimes we do this one interaction at a time. Others may take a more broad-brushed activism approach. The positivity that is the end result benefits all because to the average muggle, they don't necessarily know if the TG they encounter identifies as CD, TS or somewhere in-between.
Over the years I've heard more who identify as CD lamenting that they aren't recognized by the TS community than otherwise. Seeing the reverse voiced here is quite illuminating, and disheartening at the same time.
The most amazing thing about your entire effort is this:
"Regardless, I am in the closet, and that is where I shall remain. Call me a citizen of “Loserville” all you want. I will not change my mind. I have worked hard for my education and career. I have a family. I have a mortgage, car payments, and a plethora of other bills to pay. When I lose my job as a result of coming out, who is going to pay my bills? Who is going to feed my family? When my child goes to school, who is going to take care of her, and protect her from the playground bullies that will discriminate against her for the mere reason that her father is a crossdresser? What about the consequences to my wife? She is not a crossdresser, but she married one. I could go on and on and on, but I am sure you get the point. But even beyond this, what about the simple freedom to remain silent about my crossdressing for no other reason than I believe it is no one else’s business, and I choose not to share?"
Your post about your "sanctuary" came a day or so after your post about "almost" being outed by a family friend who walked up behind you in YOUR kitchen. Your insistence that you're in the closet, and that it's your "sanctuary" is simply self-deluding given these facts. Meanwhile, you're the one who built the house and career of sand while "hiding safely in your closet" the entire time. Nothing will protect you when you get exposed but the fact that most people really don't much care what you do so long as you tend to your business and don't make a mess of theirs... Yet, it is interesting that you think you'll stand up for your daughter when she gets bullied (by the few) at school. But, what are you going to stand on - your brand of "honesty," your sterling "reputation" for being forthright, your prior public positions on human rights? All that is hard to do from your sanctuary - which protects you from and prepares you for nothing in the real world you fear.
In any event, whether you understand it or not, you're "out" now - just by joining the forum. Make the most of it. You may be very glad you thought out your position carefully. So far, it seems your agenda is going to be to argue that you should be allowed back into your closet to be left alone - with everyone forgetting what you're doing in there. Like that's going to work the way you want it to...
Welcome to the real world. You may not like it, but this is all we've got - so far.
It should perhaps also be noted more strongly that "your" right to be in the closet is not fairly balanced with your wife's right, your child's right, your family's right, your co-workers right, your neighbors right, etc. not to have their world imploded by your self-admitted potentially harmful activity - to "their world" - that you assert a "right" to practice while keeping them unaware of the hazard YOU present to them.
You might as well argue that you can mix small amounts of explosives in your closet, because you have a right to purchase what you want and do what you want with it where you want to and when you want to... When an explosion does occur, and your wife has a blinded husband, your child loses their hearing, the neighbor's house suffers fire damage... Then it may be more clear to you how limited YOUR rights are, and how harmful your stubborn insistence on YOUR rights and freedoms really is.
If you're doing something where you need to claim "sanctuary" just to live your life, perhaps you'd do better to do something else with your time, or, learn how to do what you're doing differently.
Different being: now that you're out of the closet, stay out.
The issue I see with people firmly entrenched in the closet is, for the most part your dressing is entirely selfish. Who are you dressing for? Who are you helping? How is this helping you? The problem I have with people who are fully in the closet (I myself hide in a cupboard from my mother, and family members, as well as my aviation job. All other aspects of my life, I am very open and honest), is that you just feed the beast. That beast that feeds off of fear, and breeds more and more fear. When you hide yourself from the world doing something that harms not one person, you add more fuel to a fire of intolerance.
When I go out in my stuff, I wear it and own it (according to observers, this is not my thought at all, I think I can be a bit timid, LOL), it is difficult to conceal the sheen of black leggings, even when wearing a trench coat, mostly because I let the coat flow like a cloak (cape is too superhero sounding), and when I wear my blue disco jeans, I feel they really shine. When in a skirt with hose, I can feel like a sore thumb, but I feel really good at the same time. My point with this paragraph is I get out so others can see, and either give thought to trying it themselves, or at least think about the stupid gender limitations on styles we have. Yes I know many out there poke fun...while in their dull and mundane jeans, and non stylish t-shirts. I know there are people like my mother thinking I look like a fool, or ballet dancer without a studio (though she would not think this if I were GG). But you know what, the more it is seen, and the more people doing it, the less of a problem it will be. Look at the wearing pants several times your size fad, which is still strong.
You are a successful person right? So why not be one that shows CDing does not in anyway affect your mind, your morals, your worth, cause despite the fact you are one, you are also successful. The only reason I "hide" from my aviation job, is because I am still working my way up to a very prestigious (and neglected) level in flying and that is as instructor. When I finally achieve that very slowly I will integrate my style into my normal wear (within reason, pre flighting a cessna in a mini skirt with just pantyhose underneath, is just not practical :P), and hopefully will be able to get TG individuals into flying. Whether I will succeed at that is a going concern, and it certainly is not my main reason for getting the rating. But right now I cannot have any kind of "issue" that a closed minded FAA rep can use to stop me from getting the certificate.
I fully feel however, my steps would not be necessary if less people remain entrenched in the closet. If more had mine and others' mindsets that what we are doing is not wrong (no matter how Deut 22:5 is interpreted) and we hurt no one, and for the most part do not put across an image connected to violence. We are simply wearing styles and presenting how we should be able to.
It is of course your right to hide...but in the long run, it helps no one.
Hi Anne,
I too was in the closet for 50 years and just started venturing out this year (support groups, shopping and meeting other friends, going to a few clubs) and the thing you'll notice about this forum is there are nice supportive folks on here, and some not so nice, not so supportive ones. I migrate towards the former ones, not the latter. In other words, don't let them bring you down!! Just my :2c:
i say let the ny-sayer go away, probably just a troll trying to cause trouble.
if one enjoys (for what ever reason) staying in the closet so be it who are we to tell them other wise.
sure i have been out and about, not as some here have posted, and no i do not blend in very good. but around here were i live i keep the heavy drapes closed.
we are all different, have different needs wants. so we need to support any and all others in there beliefs.
sorry karren but i do ware fem jeans when out as the male me, they just fit better. but when i got up this am i did put on a summer dress.
but as the evil poster said, i say just ignore them and enjoy your life as you want. when they pay All of your bills, and support you in every way, till then they can just shut-up and go-away.
Loni
.
I am in the closet, for several reasons. First, what I do in my home is my business. While I am not embarrassed by what I do, I don't broadcast it either. I choose to keep this part of my private. I have no desire to wave any kind of flag. For me, crossdressing is lower on the list of important things in life. I doubt I will get fired if I showed up at my job dressed, and maybe no one will be surprised, but I would not be comfortable. I am not hiding in the closet but I am not jumping out of it either. That said, I am thinking of coming out to my stepmother. My Dad passed away a couple of years ago, and I feel like it is time. I do believe she would be supportive, but I am not sure.
None that I am aware ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
Wow.... I've read through the replies on this thread several times now. I wish I could say that I'm suprised by many of the attitudes, but I'm not.
This topic will be endlessly debated. Each side will bring valid points for or against individuals being closted to the public at large. Debate is great everyone. Let's just be respectful of each other and not call each other out. For example... don't assume that because your job has a trans friendly policy or an EEO poster mounted on the wall... that other employers don't have a fired without cause policy or that your EEO employer won't find a way to get rid of you, if they don't like your crossdressing.
Just because we don't live up to each other's standards of crossdressing or transgenderism, doesn't mean each of our opinions aren't post worthy. We are each unique, have our own situations and live somewhere different along the crossdressing or transgendered spectrum line.
I believe Anne's first post was made, to call to light how she felt attacked by another member. As all of us know, personal attacks (and I think most of us would agree that Mr Loserville was being insulting) are not permitted. Should the mods have caught it? Maybe so. However, I'm not gonna be dumb enough to judge them when they have the responsibility of policing this site. :eek: To many times... we forget or hijack another person's thread or post because of one little opinion we want add. 50 opinions later... we have this kind of situation, where some posters are starting to get a little personal. As someone mentioned above, there is a little exclamation point icon for reporting posts considered to be insulting or inflammatory.
Sorry about the soapbox, but I just felt that opinions were getting the better of us and somebody needed to step us and say "Easy Trigger"..... We're all here on this site for the same reason... support.
The person who responded so strongly to your other thread was rude. Under ideal circumstances, such a post would have been caught by a moderator and if not deleted, then edited to remove the trolling comments. We moderators don't have set schedules to login and sometimes posts get missed. Had you or someone else reported the post it would have been looked at.
It's moot now to go back and perform a moderating action since you've highlighted the post in this thread, but next time please do report such a post.
At any rate, I'm glad that you brought up the topic, irrespective of this person's comments. It's good to remind everyone of the diversity here and to make a case for tolerance over the different choices we all make. It boggles my mind when I see people who are just so convinced their own way is the only way to live. How can anyone be so limited in their views?
I'm sure the person who responded negatively will have learned something from reading this thread and I hope that he or she will learn to change the tone of his or her future messages to at least respect the positions of other members.
So telling them about privetly crossdressing now has a different effect than if they ever find out in some other way? If it implodes their world either way whats the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
Don't you think this is a rather strange and extreem comparison example? Equating crossdressing to mixing explosives is like saying if you masturbate in the shower you may as well mix explosives in there as well. It just does not make any sense. But WAIT...I thought everyone masturbates in private so that makes it okay to also mix explosives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
"Just to live you life" is far from just satisfying one small part of life. Again your being quite extreem hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
Just as Pythos said she is out of the closet but not fully, Anne only knows her sitiuation so please allow her to make the same choices she feels are right for her. Like several others have said here they were at that stage once and then progressed to taking small steps outside that closet as they were comfortable doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joanagreenleaf
I have more but I need to go purchase some chemicals
Anne
I have to agree with most of what your saying. I'm pretty in the closet myself have been for 40+ years. I used to go out occasionally when I was younger, but never found the big world outside very accepting, so now it's home with the Ms and the TV (television I mean). I still get out for the occasional drive across the moors, but I don't really have the urge to socialise like I did when I was younger and I'm very content and happy with my lot.
Jane.