Why do GG’s have a problem with US?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GroovyChristy

Yes, I know all too well that a woman doesn't need to feel threatened by me, not in the sense that I am more womanly than she is, that really would be an absurd suggestion. She has a real, female body, something I can only dream of. It is I who feels inadequate and outdone.

---

As much as I try to focus only on what is said in a particular thread, it is sometimes difficult for me to erase from my memory the countless posts I've read in this forum and a sentiment that is shared by many, that generally CDers are so much more feminine and dress much better, and even "pass" better than GGs, who are all so darned masculine because they wear men's clothes! lol :p

Every time I read these comments I believe they are absurd, and I think some of that showed through in my comments above. I was triggered by so many people who yet again said that we feel our femininity is threatened, we are jealous, and one person even said we are selfish. Sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frédérique

[SIZE="3"]Yes, this is what I was trying to get at in the OP, hoping someone would think about the bigger picture. I really believe (duh) that women keep civilization afloat, so they are like sentinels, each imbued with her own sense of propriety – this is a GOOD thing, and I have no wish to challenge it with my gender-bending dressing exercises. It’ll never be an “US vs. THEM” scenario, in my mind, because that is not only counter-productive, but self-destructive as well...[/SIZE]

---

I think the mistake might have been attributing the disapproval to only women. This is an issue among both men and women, in all the major cultures in our civilization, and it is a bias that has existed all through recorded history, except for a few small pockets here and there who did accept the notion of Two-Spirit, Kathoey, Fa'afafine, Hijra, etc.

But if I were to name one gender who disapproves more than the other, it would be men, not women.

Personally, I've always believed that mass cultural and historical disapproval of gender and sexual variance might well be hard-wired in our collective reptilian brains precisely because of our instincts for survival - even though in modern society we're learning to be more tolerant due to inroads made in scientific research. It's the basic belief in the mating rituals that guarantee our survival, rituals that have at their essence, men who are men and women who are women ... and the dances they dance together that are no more different today than they have been for tens of thousands years. Boy meets girl. Boy pursues girl. Girl accepts boy. They mate and form bonds to assure the survival of their young. The birds and the bees and all that. Anything that is perceived as a threat to this causes massive social anxiety.

Today we're learning that gender and sexual variance are OK as long as they aren't in our backyards, but it is still a difficult thing to accept when it touches a spouse, parent, or an offspring. And I think it is only because women have made such inroads in economic equality in the last half century, that so many wives do learn to accept or at least tolerate the cross-gender expression in their husbands. But, when a husband becomes enamored with the expression of femininity at the expense of his wife, this is perceived as a threat to the bonds that a wife feels are necessary for the maintenance of their marriage. It is not the wife's femininity that is threatened, it is the dance that is hard wired in her to dance with her husband, that is now interrupted. The wife knows that her femininity is unchanged in the eyes of other men. Further, if these husbands want to transition, few wives will be able to stay the course. They are hard-wired hetero and this is why they married husbands. They cannot change their sexual orientations.

And although progeny is not an issue, even gay men also experience difficulties when their gay partners all of a sudden want to become women. This puts the gay partner in a bind, because he is not attracted to women.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyJameson

Perhaps the female has become ugly in her masculinity so the male creates feminine beauty in himself to replace what has been lost from the world.

It is not so much that female physical beauty has been lost but the inner vessel has been corrupted and the hardness inside has destroyed the softness outside making it appear false, manipulative and brittle.

It does not surprise me that men run from their wives and into crossdressing.

---

We are just as feminine as we've always been in both in our personal relationships with our husbands and in the beds we share with them, despite world economic circumstances that have forced dual-income marriages, thus bridging the gender gap in the academic and working worlds.

We are still beautiful, we are still women, and if men want to crossdress it is not because they are running away from us. It is because they are crossdressers and they are wired differently than men who are not.

... or, they are doing this for fetish, and if so, it started way before they met us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

As much as I try to focus only on what is said in a particular thread, it is sometimes difficult for me to erase from my memory the countless posts I've read in this forum and a sentiment that is shared by many, that generally CDers are so much more feminine and dress much better, and even "pass" better than GGs, who are all so darned masculine because they wear men's clothes! lol :p

Every time I read these comments I believe they are absurd, and I think some of that showed through in my comments above. I was triggered by so many people who yet again said that we feel our femininity is threatened, we are jealous, and one person even said we are selfish. Sorry.

---

Reine, I can well understand why a GG might get a bit exasperated on this point--especially given that it is a point that's repeated fairly often on this forum.

I have a hard time imagining why any GG would feel threatened by me. How could I be a threat to her? What has she got that I could possibly take from her? In what way could I possibly undermine her standing in the community or anywhere else?

Oh, but I'm so much more feminine than her, right? Fact is that in the way I dress, I'm more feminine than probably 98% of the women of my town. But that's only because they don't want to dress this way. And it's because they don't need to dress this way in order to be perceived as feminine. So if anybody's threatened, who is it? I personally don't feel threatened by women, though--just envious as hell. So not being able to deal with my envy, I'll project it onto them. That will make me feel better. They're envious of me, they feel threatened by me. I'll stick in my thumb and pull out a plum and say, "What a fabulous girlie am I!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

Personally, I've always believed that mass cultural and historical disapproval of gender and sexual variance might well be hard-wired in our collective reptilian brains precisely because of our instincts for survival . . . It's the basic belief in the mating rituals that guarantee our survival, rituals that have at their essence, men who are men and women who are women ... and the dances they dance together that are no more different today than they have been for tens of thousands years. Boy meets girl. Boy pursues girl. Girl accepts boy. They mate and form bonds to assure the survival of their young. The birds and the bees and all that. Anything that is perceived as a threat to this causes massive social anxiety.

---

I'd go along with this, too. I think this is the deep reason--or at least one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

They are hard-wired hetero and this is why they married husbands. They cannot change their sexual orientations.

---

Yep, this is just the basic, obvious reason, which I have a hard time understanding why it might be difficult to understand. You can't change your sexual orientation any more than you can your gender orientation. And why should you want to? Accepting CDing is one thing. Liking it is something else.

Best wishes, Annabelle

I have read all the posts and the original thread and Freddie has started something with this one. I am Breeze's husband and have to agree with her on this issue.(we don't always agree on things) Yes it is great to have an accepting and encouraging wife and I do feel for those who don't have accepting SOs. I have read lots of intelligent answers to this thread and many times people have gone round the houses to best answer why some GG's feel threatened by us cross dressers. There are obviously many intelligent people that use this forum and I humbly have to admit that I am not one of them. So then why do some females feel threatened by us cross dressers because society has conditioned them to think that way simple as. If any of you have an SO that is as accepting as mine love her look after her and most of all understand her as much as she is trying to understand you.

I'm sorry, Kelly, but you are so wide of the mark. You allege that the creation of beauty, of perfection, is the province entirely of the male. You make the widest possible generalizations, with the final grotesquery the the entire female gender has become corrupt manipulative, hard hearted and false. I have not lived in your shoes, and therfore I cannot understand what is at the root of the process which seems to have made you feel that women are despicable. In a longish life, I have found more care, concern and kindness from genetic women than from men. Take that as you will, it is simply a fact.

Renee, thanks for reminding us of some basic truths.

As for the OP, we are often suspicious of, and made anxious by things we do not understand, and that, I suggest is the root of the attitude of some genetic women to crossdressers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foxglove

Oh, but I'm so much more feminine than her, right? Fact is that in the way I dress, I'm more feminine than probably 98% of the women of my town. But that's only because they don't want to dress this way. And it's because they don't need to dress this way in order to be perceived as feminine.

---

Right.

There is a difference between "being more feminine" and "dressing in more feminine clothing". John Wayne could wear the frilliest, frou-frou-est, gauziest, most flowery, pink, lacy gown, and he would not be more feminine than Angelina Jolie wearing jeans and a white Tshirt. :p

So if CDers who say they are "more feminine than GGs" really mean that they dress in more feminine clothing, then they should say this rather than confuse the issue.

Quote:

---

I have read lots of intelligent answers to this thread and many times people have gone round the houses to best answer why some GG's feel threatened by us cross dressers. There are obviously many intelligent people that use this forum and I humbly have to admit that I am not one of them. So then why do some females feel threatened by us cross dressers because society has conditioned them to think that way simple as. If any of you have an SO that is as accepting as mine love her look after her and most of all understand her as much as she is trying to understand you.

---

Society has not conditioned me to be threatened by crossdressers. I am NOT threatened by crossdressers. I am not attracted to feminine men period. I have said this many times before....the more a man looks like a women the less I am attracted. If I was attracted to feminity I would be with a women. It's not so complicated really. Reine has it right perhaps. Most of us are hardwired this way.

Yes, Kitty, I suspect you are right! I am hardwired to find women visually and sexually attractive, and I cannot imagine being otherwise. That said, I ENJOY looking pretty, feminine, and I enjoy the slight but noticeable change in attitudes and interactions that seem to come along with that.

Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that many of the macho things that I used do (killing animals for "sport", not because I needed to eat them) was just my way of expressing power over them. One day, I shot a hare. I am not a bad marksman, having come second in the British Army in Scotland challenge, but I was off mark. That hare screamed. When I walked up to it, I found I had just fractured its thigh.

I thought "Why? Just because I can kill you from 400 yards with a weapon that you could not hope to have to defend yourself?" Really macho - especially when we had a freezer full of food at home.

I thought about this for a long time, and I concluded that there must be better ways of showing my masculinity than that. And there are. They make me a living.

We are all hardwired to an extent, but some of us are fortunate enough to know that and try to adjust. Sorry if I sound as if I am polishing my halo, but that is how it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

John Wayne could wear the frilliest, frou-frou-est, gauziest, most flowery, pink, lacy gown. . .

---

I'm trying to picture this--but I just can't quite get there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

Angelina Jolie wearing jeans and a white Tshirt. :p

---

This I can picture. But would Angelina feel threatened? Perhaps not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

So if CDers who say they are "more feminine than GGs" really mean that they dress in more feminine clothing, then they should say this rather than confuse the issue.

---

Yeah, it does help to say what you mean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KellyJameson

Nature has created men to be creators of beauty because it is in their sexuality to possess beauty. Beauty is male sexuality, the two things are synonymous. They may be separated but still they are always intertwined.

Perhaps the female has become ugly in her masculinity so the male creates feminine beauty in himself to replace what has been lost from the world.

It is not so much that female physical beauty has been lost but the inner vessel has been corrupted and the hardness inside has destroyed the softness outside making it appear false, manipulative and brittle.

It does not surprise me that men run from their wives and into crossdressing.

---

WTF?!?! You're from earth, right? I can't even begin to understand a mind that writes nonsense like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foxglove

Oh, but I'm so much more feminine than her, right? Fact is that in the way I dress, I'm more feminine than probably 98% of the women of my town. But that's only because they don't want to dress this way. And it's because they don't need to dress this way in order to be perceived as feminine.

---

Wow, you are confused. Clothes do NOT make the woman feminine. THAT is why most women are perceived as feminine regardless of their attire. You are most certainly NOT more feminine than 98% of the women in your town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foxglove

Oh, but I'm so much more feminine than her, right? Fact is that in the way I dress, I'm more feminine than probably 98% of the women of my town. But that's only because they don't want to dress this way. And it's because they don't need to dress this way in order to be perceived as feminine.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

Wow, you are confused. Clothes do NOT make the woman feminine. THAT is why most women are perceived as feminine regardless of their attire. You are most certainly NOT more feminine than 98% of the women in your town.

---

Jennifer, instead of reading just this part of my post that Reine quoted, if you read the entire post, you'll see that you've totally misconstrued my remarks here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foxglove

Reine, I can well understand why a GG might get a bit exasperated on this point--especially given that it is a point that's repeated fairly often on this forum.

I have a hard time imagining why any GG would feel threatened by me. How could I be a threat to her? What has she got that I could possibly take from her? In what way could I possibly undermine her standing in the community or anywhere else?

Oh, but I'm so much more feminine than her, right? Fact is that in the way I dress, I'm more feminine than probably 98% of the women of my town. But that's only because they don't want to dress this way. And it's because they don't need to dress this way in order to be perceived as feminine. So if anybody's threatened, who is it? I personally don't feel threatened by women, though--just envious as hell. So not being able to deal with my envy, I'll project it onto them. That will make me feel better. They're envious of me, they feel threatened by me. I'll stick in my thumb and pull out a plum and say, "What a fabulous girlie am I!"

---

You've got what I said exactly backwards. Reine understood my intent because she read the entire post.

Best wishes, Annabelle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tracii G

Original post is way to long to read sorry Freddy.
Not sure why you do that but carry on.

---

I agree with Tracii. Your posts, in general, are way too long and involved. Because of this, I usually skip over your posts.

I did read some of this post. Adult women don't like to be called girls. I was a manager in a large setting with an all female staff. Had I referred to my staff as my girls or the girls, they would have hung me out to dry.

Jodi

IMHO it seems that some members have posted comments here without reading the thread from the start and are jumping in with comments that are not really on the original topic.
I personally read the OP, then read all of the comments made and only comment and contribute if I have something worthwhile to say. I have no problem if some members wish to quote me when replying to an OP but please make it in context to what is being talked about?

Hi Busker,

Your response feels right. We may be taking too much into consideration. My experience suggests woman are clearly more open to us than men but also more welcoming to TS people. "Just a crossdresser" suggests a hierarchy and pecking order that may understate our value and the price we pay to be our authentic selves. When there is a violent attack on a T person, the attacker most often does not make any destinction between CD and TS. The world is to contentious in any event. Our aims and objectives are close enough that we should be mutually supportive and not antagonistic.

Kelly Jameson, You are on to something, I am afraid. I am one who dresses partly because i do not see or experience feminine softness and beauty , but all too often hardness, and hostility, especially from GG's of the BABY BOOMER era. I believe the baby boomer women got so tired of being sexual objects, put on a pedestal for decades, by songs, movies, and in general, that they rebelled against it, and male attention, and a hardening of the females minds and hearts took root big time. I agree that part of my dressing, if not all of it, is being starved for female beauty.

[SIZE="2"]Oh, don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that GG’s present the ONLY problem facing the MtF crossdresser. I’m just presenting this particular idea because it’s nagging at me. Sound familiar? WARNING: this is a lengthy response, so all you lovers of short posts may wish to turn away…
:clap:[/SIZE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

I think the mistake might have been attributing the disapproval to only women. This is an issue among both men and women, in all the major cultures in our civilization, and it is a bias that has existed all through recorded history… if I were to name one gender who disapproves more than the other, it would be men, not women.

---

[SIZE="2"]True, but not relevant to this discussion. The topic at hand emerged from a noticeable GG bias against MtF crossdressers in THIS section of the forum. If I wished to include bias from males, I would’ve put GM or GB in the title, not GG. Let’s not go off topic here. I think we are all aware that “normal” males have a huge problem with what we do – just ask those young males who bullied me in the playground, or ask those males who consistently expound strength over sensitivity, or ask any male who will call me queer without giving it a second thought. That’s not the issue here…

Let me ask you this – how many 100% normal masculine males, i.e. those who are outside of the community, register at this site to say how “confused” they are about MtF crossdressing, and they take the opportunity to defend their way of thinking (and doing)? I think there have been a few since I’ve been active here, but mostly its females who voice their lack of understanding, one after the other, as if we are violating them in some way. Obviously, males who crossdress would understand other males who crossdress, so posting something titled, “What’s the problem with GM’s?” wouldn’t make much sense, unless you were on a site with a healthy proportion of non-CD males. Good luck doing that! In any event, we are not emulating males by crossdressing as females, so we certainly aren’t interested in their approval…

There’s plenty of time and space to disseminate males, in fact the very “act” of MtF crossdressing is a way to demonstrate that dissemination. Even though Lorileah has warned us not to make this into an “Us vs. Them” discussion, I think you’re trying to do just that, simply because you feel you have to. Since you’re the most visible GG in this neck of the woods (at present), I must say that your consistent defensiveness speaks volumes about why GG’s will never FULLY accept men who dress as women. Even GG’s who appear sympathetic on the surface have a problem with us – I can see it, I can read it, and I can feel it. It comes through between the lines, or in the form of something innocent, like an ill-placed emoticon. I think males (by birth) in this section have been looking in the mirror and assessing themselves a lot more than the GG’s who cannot drop their innate defenses. Perhaps we’re going in opposite directions, reversing roles and flipping the poles, but there must me a middle ground somewhere…

I see a parallel with those who cannot (or will not) understand what I’m trying to say because the OP is too long, too much like complex homework, and its very presence is threatening. One quick glance, and someone will decide that my words aren’t worth reading. That’s fine, I don’t mind, but why go to all the trouble of posting one’s aversion to something they have chosen not to understand, in the main body of the forum, no less? Doesn’t anybody care about the person’s feelings? I would never do this to someone on this site, i.e. complain about their particular mode of expression. In a similar vein, I don’t understand why a GG would adopt a posture where MtF crossdressing is too difficult for her to understand, so she’s going to spread that opinion around, in a place where such an opinion is unwelcome. Of course many MtF crossdressers have a hard time understanding their own need to dress, and their ignorant peers have a HUGE problem with it, but I would think that women, deep down inside, might be more sympathetic if they gave the idea half a chance…

Nothing is going to change, of course, but this discussion highlights how similar M and F are, not only in the shared appreciation of societal expectations and best use of one’s time, but also how stubborn both genders can be when it comes to pushing a little understanding through. You aren’t the one crossdressing, so you’ll never see things from my point of view…
:straightface:[/SIZE]

Quote:

---

And although progeny is not an issue, even gay men also experience difficulties when their gay partners all of a sudden want to become women. This puts the gay partner in a bind, because he is not attracted to women.

---

[SIZE="2"]Again, this is not relevant to the discussion at hand. That’s another topic, for another time, and perhaps a different part of the forum. Boys who dress up as girls and the backlash they get from real girls is the issue here…[/SIZE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frédérique

I see a parallel with those who cannot (or will not) understand what I’m trying to say because the OP is too long, too much like complex homework, and its very presence is threatening.

---

You really aren't getting it are you? It's the font you're using, people can't read it, loads of people have said as much, but you have chose to ignore their words and carried on posting with that font. BTW, I took a look at your editing, you don't need to use '2' font size, it's automatically that size and you don't need to use 'black' either, the standard colour is black. Maybe I'll just remove all the fonts/sizes etc because they cause enough problems.

Edit - well with all this bickering on font sizing, I've turned it off... and size...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frédérique

Even GG’s who appear sympathetic on the surface have a problem with us – I can see it, I can read it, and I can feel it. It comes through between the lines, or in the form of something innocent, like an ill-placed emoticon. I think males (by birth) in this section have been looking in the mirror and assessing themselves a lot more than the GG’s who cannot drop their innate defenses. Perhaps we’re going in opposite directions, reversing roles and flipping the poles, but there must me a middle ground somewhere…

, I don’t understand why a GG would adopt a posture where MtF crossdressing is too difficult for her to understand, so she’s going to spread that opinion around, in a place where such an opinion is unwelcome. Of course many MtF crossdressers have a hard time understanding their own need to dress, and their ignorant peers have a HUGE problem with it, but I would think that women, deep down inside, might be more sympathetic if they gave the idea half a chance…

---

Of course there can be some middle ground if crossdressers would start by being honest. Even the ones who are up front about the crossdressing keep most of the truth hidden. So even if you start a relationship knowing about the crossdressing, most of the time you are only getting the tip of the iceburg of the truth. Many gg's I know start out with knowing, accepting and even participating until they find out that their so is gay, wants to be a women and hates his man parts or wants a man when he is presenting as a women. It is very confusing and hurtful to find out your spouse is crusing trans sites to hook up with other cd's who are also probably married or attatched. How can middle ground be achieved when there is so much lying? How can one trust? To my eye many of the acts of crossdressers are irrational, impulsive and sneeky. Please don't say "society made me do it" There are women out there that find feminine men a turn on but even they will be soured when lied to. I see a change comming with honesty.

Personally I am in the group of "I will never understand" this phenomonon but I don't think it is really necessary to understand. I am all about judging the relationship. Is the relationship healthy, honest, does it fullfill my needs. How does it make me feel? If all of those answers are negative even the straightest manliest man could not make me stay with it.

I personally have no problem with crossdressers.
But My Husband , well thats different, as Im only intimate with him.
So the impact that crossdressing has on a marriage can be huge.
My H trivialised c/ding when he told me, Its soooo NOT only a dress.
Am I supposed to know he would like to have flowers, have the door held for him ?
How was I supposed to get into his head and know all this ?
So My problem was with my H and not with c/dressing.
I told him it was like wishing he could win the lotto , but never actually buying a ticket ..
Took us nearly ten years, to get to this happy middle.
But its everything else, that pulled us through this.
He now tells me what he needs/likes, sometimes I can help, and other times , Well he can dream cant he ..x

When you boil it all down to gravy, I think it's a simple answer. Most women disapprove of MtF crossdressing because they have been conditioned by their upbringing, their genetic predispositions, their peers, and by society in general to want to be with MEN. They believe, therefore, that men should be men, act like men (hopefully gentlemen), want to be men, and not want to run around looking like women. I can understand that frame of mind without a whole lot of effort.

I honestly haven't noticed any posts from women in this forum that made me feel they were disapproving of me, or of what I do. I read most of the threads. I guess there have been occasional comments, but I have noticed comments from other crossdressers that I felt were more judgmental than any I have read by women. I agree that it would be nice if everyone here were accepting, but I really don't feel any of the alleged disapproval by women here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frédérique

It isn’t exclusionist, of course, so GG’s wander into this No Man’s Land to complain about what we do from time to time. You know, “my boyfriend insists on crossdressing – please help me understand what’s going on,” or “I didn’t want this,” or “what’s wrong with you people, anyway, and can we get help for the afflicted?”

---

Well yes, what do you expect. Some wife finds out her husband CD's after 20 years of marriage, what do you think the reaction is going to be: confusion, and lots of questions, and maybe some anger over not knowing up front. Isn't it obvious?

Now that doesn't mean that GG's in general have a problem with transfolk...because they don't. Many members here interact with GG's all the time if it was as bad as you imply there would be GG's at the doors of every Macy's keeping CD's out...that's not the case.

Quote:

---

Some GG’s even go so far as crashing the party, or pouring water on the glowing fire, or, in extreme cases, debunking cherished ideals right out in the open.

---

It's not "YOUR" party. They're members here too. What, you want only CD's who agree with you 100 percent allowed to me members?

Quote:

---

What’s a boy/girl to do? I’d like to feel GOOD about my crossdressing, please...

---

The only person that can make you truly feel bad about your Crossdressing is YOU. You're the one that uses the words "deviant" and other negative words in your posts. You're the one that often posts "Everyone hates us, woe is us, let us revel in secret." posts. Have you ever thought that your viewpoint is skewed by your obvious internalized transphobia?

Quote:

---

There are many exceptions to what I have just described, i.e. GG’s who are genuinely supportive in a compassionate sense, but others send me around the bend.

---

Support does not equal approval.

Quote:

---

I’m appreciative of GG’s who genuinely like (or accept) what we do, but most of the time I feel like we are under attack from those we are trying to emulate. What do YOU think the problem is?
:idontknow:

---

I don't see any attacking going on from GG's. What I'm seeing in this post and others from you is a persecution complex, most likely stemming from internalized transphobia. The GG's/TS's/TG's aren't out to get you, they just have different opinions that sometimes you don't want to hear. That doesn't mean they don't want you to be happy, or to dress how you want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frédérique

True, but not relevant to this discussion. The topic at hand emerged from a noticeable GG bias against MtF crossdressers in THIS section of the forum.

---

Prove it. Newly joined GG's being upset about their CDing partners/husbands, or disagreeing with you or other CD's on various topics does not equal bias.

Quote:

---

Even though Lorileah has warned us not to make this into an “Us vs. Them” discussion, I think you’re trying to do just that, simply because you feel you have to. Since you’re the most visible GG in this neck of the woods (at present), I must say that your consistent defensiveness speaks volumes about why GG’s will never FULLY accept men who dress as women.

---

What? Calling CD's on their bullshit, defending the feelings of partners/SO's an the other things that ReineD does is defensiveness? I am...amazed at your audacity in stating outright foolishness.

As for GG's never accepting...there are plenty of GG's that DO. I know of GG's who go out with the CD/Transgender husband ALL the time. I know of CD's/TG's that have formed friendships with women. And even YOU have an accepting sister, correct? What kind of "they're out to get me world" are you living in?

Quote:

---

Even GG’s who appear sympathetic on the surface have a problem with us – I can see it, I can read it, and I can feel it.

---

Are you sure that's not your own fear and transphobia coming through and making you "THINK" there's a problem when there isn't one.

Quote:

---

It comes through between the lines, or in the form of something innocent, like an ill-placed emoticon.

---

Oh please, now you're just being foolish again. "an ill placed emoticon" geesh! How more self-centered can you be. Not everything is about you. Typos happen all the time.

Quote:

---

Doesn’t anybody care about the person’s feelings?

---

Geez Louise. Don't take things so personally....lighten up a bit. If someone thinks you overuse excessive flowery language to try to convince others of how girly you are, when you just need to get to the point... it's not the end of the world.

Quote:

---

I would never do this to someone on this site, i.e. complain about their particular mode of expression.

---

I'm calling you out on this because you HAVE done it. You have always complained about those who multi-quote or use USENET style quoting practices, especially if they're the same people who disagree with you. And don't play the wounded fragile little girl on this, that act is not going to work forever.

Quote:

---

You aren’t the one crossdressing, so you’ll never see things from my point of view…

---

Why should they? They're not you, so they're going to have differing opinions? What, you want everyone to agree with you all the time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tamara Croft

You really aren't getting it are you? It's the font you're using, people can't read it, loads of people have said as much, but you have chose to ignore their words and carried on posting with that font.

---

Nods, I was one of the first, which is one reason why ol Frederique there doesn't like me much. I commented on how the legibility was bad, and that the girly font was a crutch to try to convince others on how girly-whirly she is...and she took it personally.

"Book Antiqua" is a "display" style typeface anyway, for print work on paper, signs and whatnot at large font sizes , it's not intended for use as a "screen" font on a computer screen in small sizes.

Quote:

---

Edit - well with all this bickering on font sizing, I've turned it off... and size...

---

Excellent!

Veronica

Honestly, Freddy, I don't ever feel I'm under attack, neither here, nor in my real life. I spend a good deal of time en femme with GGs - both within my immediate family and out it public. Sure, I see a few eye rolls and smirks, but by and large I get very positive responses.

At the same time, I realize that I'm not going to be everyone's cup of tea and I don't need to be. If I'm invited to the ladies party, great! I'll feel comfortable as long as the women around me are comfortable with my presence. I suppose my public presence at a women's clothing store or salon might seem like I'm crashing the party, but so far, the reactions I've received have been so positive and encouraging. My experience, in the real world, has been very much felt like a I'm welcome to join the party or the GG team.

what we need is a law passed to make them accept us..yes thats it we need a law cause we have rights..damnit we have acceptance rights..think ill petition my legislative body and call it the the "GG's and SO have to accept the CD in there life cause we are tired of bitchin act of 2013"...strong penalties apply..oh i just love it...if i was a GG id never date you cause 99% of you (cd's) are selfish and self centered as hell...get a clue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foxglove

It leaves her with a husband who's physically repulsive to her. Remember recently when someone posted photos of gorgeous women with beards and hairy chests? I don't think it's so hard to understand why a woman might not be thrilled about the idea of her husband trying to look feminine.

---

(Match striking) Don't want to do this....but here comes a burn.

What if.....let's just say....what......if....that was reversed. Say a girl becomes different, for example, fat, or even in a car accident that drastically changed the way she looked to make her "physically repulsive." Wouldn't the guy be looked at as a horrible person for just up and leaving? I hate what ifs, but some women love to say they hate how men judge off of looks...yet they do the exact same in situations like this one. I personally do not see why a woman would be physically demolished over this. My wife has tried putting on my clothes to show me what she feels when she looks at me. Honestly, I showed her I could be intimate with her even with all of it. If you truly love someone, you know it is them under it all.

To answer the original question, in my belief, women are naturally gifted in finding flaws with everything. Girls judge other girls in an instant. "Oh, did you see her shoes? That girl has the weirdest mole. Her elbows are ashy!" These are things guys would not see just by someone walking by, but girls do it all of the time. A cross dressing person has already pointed out their biggest flaw....which, to them, we are all wrong. One GG might have one thing wrong, but we have it all wrong. My case, I'm too tall, my feet are too big, my arms are too big, hands, knees ashy at times, and my voice is deep. It's all of those things.....that make us just blah to them. I think they feel more angry at the fact we are trying to work it with all of those issues. They feel insulted at some point by it.