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I could possibly live with this choice........:heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
Well, I guess we're....male lesbians? A rarity which would make GG's who admire them even more rare:sad:Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I totally disagree and plus that's not very nice for someone to even say that. They call this person a Doctor?:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor186
Remember the "Lipstick Lesbians" (also known as Femmes), a quite traditional part of Lesbian culture. It has been common in culture to say that their opposites are the Dykes (thought to be a shortening of "bulldyker", also known as Butch), and that still broadly holds, but certainly there are Femme/Femme relationships as well. I have personally witnessed a mix of Butch and Femme go gooey when there is a "hot" Femme nearby. No, not all lesbians: some of the Femme just don't find other Femme attractive That Way and really like Butch instead. All kinds of combinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I would not have any idea how to be the first one, the model. I would probably get extremely uptight and half-paranoid if I was magic-wanded into a body like that. The second, though, looks fine to me; I could relax and live my life. (Oh, I might ask for the cheekbones to be a small bit less apple-ish, if it's not too much trouble.)Quote:
Originally Posted by almostalady
It does not matter whether you agree or not, there have been multiple studies that indeed show what was quoted is how (statistically) people react. Studies, for example, in which people are shown pictures of people (just pictures!) and asked to rate the pictured person's honesty and attractiveness: the ones rated more attractive end up also having notably higher honesty ratings. Even though absolutely nothing about personality was revealed. In some of the tests, the actual people in the pictures do not exist and are computer generated to vary parameters such as the pupil distance or the face shape; the constructed images that get statistically rated most attractive also get statistically rated more honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady
There is some genetic basis for some judgements based on appearance. The kinds of features that people tend to judge as being detracting mostly have to do with visible asymmetries, or features at the "wrong" angles, or deformities. Those conditions are all associated with significant illnesses or weak genetics -- the kind of things that do not make for good breeding (opposite sex), and might indicate contagion (either sex.) A healthy-looking person is, all other things being equal, "safer" to be around or be attracted to, so our brain biases interactions with people based on appearance.
I'd be happy for a lateral move... average 100 ratings on my current self, then be the female equivalent. Seems fair in a perfect world :)
Hi.
Would most answer from a male perpective in being a woman or like a woman to emulate one & even be so like in looks that no one would know you had resembled a male in the first place, & take on the responceabilitys as a woman , there is far more to being a woman than just the glamour that is talked about here,
Its allways nice to say oh being a women is so much fun & getting all dolled up for an evening out & so on i get the impression that it has to do with being / feelng sexy haveing men ...wonting you...
if your not attrative your over looked or ignoreed. not even given a second look . i was allmost going to say all of this line applys to myself. or the ? i should ask is how do men see me. & not in a derogertoy kind of way, or what they could get from me.
So Appearance is what some of this is about other than the sexual side of it .
Jos * i have a photo book of many people from all round the world , now would this woman be acceptable we think aged 70 odd nothing to look at say like a younger woman yet i would love to have met her so many lines all over her face missing teeth yet she's just so lovely so beautyfull so so lovely , would she be looked at a second time i dought it yet her beauty is what Jos & i see in her. most men only wont to see the outer looks yet is that all there is to a woman ,??
I think in many way's im glad i dont have what men wont they can write me off as weird a no looker, or who the hell is that, or... IT... if it comes down to it.
So being that woman is very different from those wonting to be a woman who has that ...look...
so Dr Gorden Patzer may have it right then i dont count. oh well maybe i knew that 55 years ago. except i had to live it, Hmmm .......
...noeleena...
If Reine D asked if I wanted to look 'hot' the answer would be no. Attractive is a more general term that has a use well beyond its literal one. Many women dress to look attractive rather than to attract men, and many women regard being pestered by men as a pain in the aspect ratio. Married women who have no interest in attracting other men, dress to look good. Looking good is an objective in itself, but it nice if those you encounter give you positive feedback on how good you look. The feedback can be from either gender, but in my case, almost all my encounters are with women.
ill take what ever god could give me and make it work
As a man, I concur completely with your definition of "hot", Reine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I often try to create looks which r fem but r rather plain and more for blending. Nice maybe, but NOT hot!
"Hot" means exciting! A look that gets your blood rushing!
I hear what you're saying but the lipstick vs. butch lesbian analogy does not apply. In the other thread, the CDers who wanted to be a women only if they could be a sexually attractive woman are not in relationships with lesbian women. Or if they are not married, they have a history of having been with hetero women, since lesbians really do not like to be in relationships with men or anyone who has a penis, including genetic men who present as women.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandra-leigh
No, I was asking why CDers would want to be 'hot' (or sexually attractive) if they are or want to be in relationships with GGs who are not turned on by 'hot' (or not hot) women. Maybe they want to be in relationships with lesbians instead, but by definition lesbians do not like people who have penises, so this is a pipe dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
I think I have my answer though. The hetero CDers would want to be hot because the hotness appeals to their male libidos, and not because they want to attract men. So it is a form of attraction to the self as a hot woman? The perplexing thing to me is why CDers who are in relationships with GGs who are NOT turned on (or rather turned off) by 'hot' and 'not hot' women, would prefer to appeal to themselves rather than to the GGs they are or want to be with? Remember that my question was directed to the female-attracted CDers.
... unless the majority of the CDers who answered this way are single or they were not thinking about their relationships with their wives/girlfriends when they answered the question?
I don't understand this thread. Ask anyone if they could transform into another person, be that person male or female, and the majority would choose a person who is considered attractive. Of course, attractiveness is all said and done subjective, so the person who they would transform into would be attractive in the sense that they themselves valued attractiveness.
Another poster (sorry, without scrolling back through the thread I can't remember who) said it best. To paraphrase - they would prefer to be an ugly woman than a man, but then would prefer to be an attractive woman than an ugly woman.
Does such a comment appeal to that poster's "male libido"? I don't think so. I think it just appeals to the universal idea that being attractive is a good thing. Especially for your own self-esteem. Does it mean that men who cross-dress to desire (or have a fantasy) to be an attractive female want to attract men? Again I don't think so.
You directed your question to straight cders. To a group who from our awareness of this website all want to look as good (as females) as they possibly can. In this respect, your question can be asked in regards to the majority without the need for including the "parameter" of what kind of woman you would want to be if you could magically/instantly change sex. Is there a single CD (straight), who dresses in order to attract a female? I would say no. They dress because it's an innate compulsion, and the baggage that comes with that - male attention, ridicule, being outcast is a potential/possible outcome of that. In short, at our very core we dress for ourselves, in order to feel good about ourselves. If others accept us, then that is merely a bonus.
Jenni, if you read through all the posts in the other thread, you'll see there are many hetero CDers who would only like to be women if they were specifically sexually attractive. And since the majority of people on this planet are hetero, a sexually attractive woman appeals to men and not to other women. So I was initially puzzled by the idea that a hetero CDer would want to be attractive to men if s/he is attracted to women. I got some answers and as stated in my previous post, I think it is a wish to be sexually appealing to the self (for those hetero CDers who want to be sexually appealing). So now I am puzzled as to why hetero CDers would rather be appealing to themselves than to the GGs in their lives. The answer that lesbians are attracted to attractive women doesn't fly, since we are talking here for the most part about female-attracted CDers who are or want to be in relationships with male-attracted GGs (since lesbians are not attracted to people who have penises).
I agree though, we all want to be attractive to others in a non-sexual way, in the sense that no one wants to be ugly. I was just going several steps deeper than this.
Reine, you know the deeper you get the darker and more mysterious it becomes. Sometimes it's safer(mind wise) to remain more sane accepting something's as a child would. It is what it is. IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Reine - I haven't read though the all the posts in the other thread, nor have I replied to it. But I'm not surprised to hear that a lot of hetero CDers would only ever want to be an attractive female. This is where my comment in my previous post kicks in - that being attractiveness is subjective. In short, they would want to be a female who they themselves would deem attractive. In the realms of fantasy, which that thread clearly is (I say that even though I haven't read it), who would ever wish to be someone unattractive - even to themselves - as their fantasy? Looking at it from that perspective and it isn't necessary to delve deeper.
Having said that, I respect and admire your intent to do so. But I do feel that your question can be asked (and has as much validation) if we take this particular fantasy aspect away. That is, simply ask CDers why they cross-dress to begin with. Again, referring to my previous post, is there a single CDer who dresses in order to attract a female? Or do they dress in the hope that they can present themselves as female as best they can? The better a CDer looks (as female), the better the CDer will feel about themselves. And the more attention they are likely to get. Does this attention drive their compulsion to cross-dress? I would say, emphatically, that it doesn't. I would say that first and foremost it is a compulsion, and what we seek in others is acceptance over and above attraction. Attraction, unwanted or not, is merely a by-product.
So it's in that sense that the other thread can and should be addressed. In my opinion.
In regards to you being puzzled as to why hetero CDers would rather be appealing to themselves than the GG's in their lives, I believe the best way to approach this is to understand that we cross-dress FOR ourselves, first and foremost. Hetero CDers will not dress in feminine attire to attract a female. And when they dress in front of their partners, they are not asking for their partners to find them attractive, but rather to accept them. In this sense a distinction needs to be made. A distinction which is all too apparent on this forum (namely by the fact that the vast majority, if not all, have a female name, refer to each other as "girls", "ladies", "women". Yet the majority who do this are straight and only attracted to women. So the word "appeal" here takes on a dual meaning - appeal in a sexual sense, or appeal in an acceptance sense. In this sense a different identity is being created. And in doing so a distinction between our birth-gender and a desire to present ourselves as the opposite gender becomes the goal.
Real-life transition is difficult, expensive, painful, and stressful (including a hard period of being part-way transitioned.) "If you could take a pill", or "magic-wand" or "pixie-dust" transitions, on the other hand, are the fantasy of sudden and easy and nearly painless and low-stress transition; the 'magic' transitions to "hot looking" especially have a distinct undertone of people accepting you as "really" being the new gender because the new body is "obviously" female. I suspect people's answers would be somewhat different if the proposal had been that they would come out looking "hot" after 50 operations over a 7 year period.
Secondly, it appears to me that a number of the MTF answering do not presently feel that they are already internally 100% female gender identity, and might not even feel at present that they are "more than half female" -- but they feel (or have the fantasy) that they would like to be female -- and to feel that they are female. If you were to give them female bodies but leave their present gender identity as-is, they might not care much for the result.
I know that in my personal case, I (usually) feel "no longer male", but I am keenly aware of the gap between that and feeling "female" and I don't know that transitioning my physical body more than I have would leave me any better off... but if the Pink Pill would cure that dysphoria along with changing my body, then from a "selfish" perspective, Heck Yes, and from a relationship perspective... the relationship as it stands would be lost, but my SO would understand that I needed to do it.
Thirdly, the feeling of gender dysphoria is a big strain to live with. If the Magic Pill offered to cure the dysphoria but did not promise a female body (maybe not any body change), then that in itself would be incredibly valuable to many of us. Still, in thinking about taking such a pill, one is led to the question of "What kind of life would you like to lead" -- and when I think about ending up "male", I (speaking for myself here!) feel a ball of unease and unpleasantness in the pit of my stomach. The kind of life I would like to lead is more closely associated with traditional female attributes. About the only traditionally male attributes I value are my relatively analytic mind, and my decent (but not "strong") "mapping" / navigation / sense-of-direction (I don't like feeling lost.) Would I choose the other kind of life mostly on the grounds that doing so might make my SO happier? I don't think so: that would be too much like wanting to be a different person, to not-exist. I have given up so much for the sake of others already in my life: don't make me give up more core.
Jenni, thanks so much for your response. You addressed my questions at the deeper level. I've read your post twice and after having been here for years and despite understanding and accepting a great deal about the CDing, there are some aspects that still elude me.
I will need to read your post several times to digest it. Thank you once again! :)
Edit - And thank you too, Sandra, and truly, everyone else who responded. :hugs:
Reine
And thank you for asking your questions. For in thinking about such questions and attempting to answer them, it can result in a better understanding for myself in regards to myself. I've cross-dressed pretty much all my life (my first time was when I was 5 years old when my sister and my two female cousins dressed me up (even though I protested, more out of convention than compulsion, something happened in me that day - a realisation as to who I was which I know will stay with me until my dying day)). Yet despite being a CDer, I realise that what it means and represents varies from person to person. Of course there are similarities that we can all relate to, but in regards to a complete understanding of it, I will never achieve that.
It's why I admire your question and you yourself so much. For it is, at its very essence, intent on understanding more about the reasons and needs for men who crossdress. I thank you for that. And such threads are the reason why I keep coming back to this site, even if I don't post very often. The mixture of reading threads which are serious in their intent and reading threads as trivial such as "how girly is your phone cover" is a welcome mix. One asks us to address who we are, the other allows us respite and just enjoy who we are.
Perhaps I'm not best placed to answer your questions in this thread because I'm gay, but I hope you don't mind me butting in and engaging in your questions nonetheless. You have asked questions which I can relate to, and questions that are deserving of many responses, and it's only through getting a variety of responses that can truly result in understanding the topic at hand. So, I thank you Reine for asking such questions.
Wrong forum for earnest introspection. These are people who come here to fantasize and socialize. Very few have given any thought to the emotional politics of their discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
How do you know that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
Most of my sexual relationships, once I came out, were with bisexual women. These women liked that I could provide the security and resources of a man, and at the same time had the sensitivity and sensuality of a woman. There are radical differences in how men make love to women and how women make love to women. In my case, I was never very well endowed, and if I counted on what was between my legs to please a woman, we would both be disappointed. Learning to use my mouth, hands, body, and toys to please my partner was natural, and an important part of my life. I was talking to my wife this morning and we realized that he hadn't had intercourse since 2004, and before that with my previous partner it was around 1998. Even in 2004 it was awkward and a bit difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
On the other hand, with the right toys, I can please my partner and she can please me and we can have a really enjoyable sex life together.
My wife has helped me get better at "blending". The trick here is to look feminine, but not overly sexy or beautiful. I look and dress appropriate to my actual age. I'm 57 years old and with make-up and such I look like late 40s or early 50s. I can pass through the airport as a "Miss" or "Ma'am" without even trying. I've grown my own hair longer and I fill a B-cup when I wear a bra. If I wear a feminine blouse, shorts, and women's tennis shoes, I get treated like an older woman. Men hold doors for me, waiters and service people use the feminine pronouns. At the same time, I don't have guys fondling me in public places like I did when I was in my "foxy" 30s looking like I was still in my late 20s, wearing short skirts, hose, and heels.
The fact is that I have a hard time passing as male these days, which is OK by me.
As for WHY I'd want to transition, it's hard to explain unless you have experienced both the male and female worlds. The male world is a constant power struggle, a struggle for domination that starts when we are toddlers. Watch two year old boys play and they will push each other and fight over toys, but a "pecking order" is gradually established. This is common in many mammals that congregate in large groups such as wolves, or even monkeys and apes. As men get older, the struggle shifts from physical competitions such as fist-fighting to competitive sports and athletics, then to intellectual competition and eventually competition in the work-place. Alpha males try to assert their authority in "Top Down" mode, delegating to subordinates, who delegate to their subordinates, who obediently carry out orders without question or argument. This is most common in the Military.
In the female world, there is a sense of cooperation and collaboration. The goal is to remain a part of the group, to be accepted. The worse thing a woman can do to another woman is betrayal, especially a betrayal which results in the betrayed woman being excluded from the group or the pack. Women work and win by cooperating with each other, collaborating with each other. As gatherers, they would try to help each other find the freshest berries and fruits, an modern culture it includes things like the best sales and bargains. In the work-place women are often more effective in collaborative situations, encouraging each member of the team to contribute their knowledge, abilities, and skills to the project with affirmation of each person's contribution. There is more desire to seek consensus and leaders are often those who gain the most support from their subordinates rather than those who are the most dominant. As girls grow up, they are encouraged to engage in nurturing activities, such as playing with dolls. They are encouraged to take dance, music, and art programs, where each girl is encouraged to do their best and stay in sync with the rest of the group. There are competitions for "star" roles, but even then there are opportunities for lots of leaders to showcase their advanced skills and strategies - as part of the team effort. The soloist who is backed by the choir, the prima ballerina backed by the chorus, or the cheerleaders at the top of the pyramid who are supported by the base.
This isn't to say that there aren't exceptions to the rules on either side. There are alpha women who try to bully others into doing it their way, or suffer the consequences, and there are beta men who are effective collaborators and team players. In many cases, these people are overtly or covertly transgender. I've known many FtM transgender women who dressed more masculine, were heavier and more muscular, and were willing to fight when they or theirs were threatened in any way. Conversely, I've observed how many femme men are very effective and organizing groups and getting people involved, without being forceful leaders.
There are many other gender role strategies that are radically different between men and women, and there are always exceptions, based on situation, exceptional personalities, and environment. Most people just accept their own gender role and consider it a part of their lives, it's just how things are. The transgender person seems to have the ability to perceive the differences in gender roles, then adopt, adapt, and accept the opposite gender roles and tend to reject their own gender roles. For some, such as cross-dressers, this might only be in specific areas of their lives. For others, such as transsexuals, they learn to adopt the gender roles and strategies of the opposite gender at a very young age, and it is when they are forced into gender conformity that they begin to suffer.
If you are a GG, and you loved playing with your girl friends, giggling together, crying together, sharing toys, sharing clothes, sharing your lives together. You learned to enjoy touching each other, hugging each other, and playing with each other's hair, nails, and make-up. Now imagine being thrust into a world where giggling or crying would result in an immediate attack by 10-20 boys who would beat you physically, hitting you, kicking you, and hurting you. They might use their fists and feet, or they might use rocks and clubs. Imagine being thrust into a world where touching any other person could also result in a physical assault of this type. Imagine that any attempt and deviating from the "uniform" of the group, whatever form that might take, would make you a target for physical assault. Hair too long, you get beat up. Fingernails to long, you get beat up. Clothes too nice, you get beat up. Clothes to ratty, you get beat up. Imagine a world where expressing emotions, happy, sad, crying with sadness or crying for joy, would result in being physically attacked. Even acting to excited about a girl could result in her being "taken" from you by an "alpha" male.
This is how the MtF transsexual experiences the male world. The have been forced out of a world of nurturing and support, into a world of violence, and they are often the target of that violence.
The FtM experiences just the opposite. Often, the FtM transsexual starts out experiencing the world as a "boy" or "tom-boy", often with brothers and other male play-mates. She learns to fight for what she wants, to compete with boys, and she learns that she will only be accepted by the boys if she wins the fights, or at least puts up a good fight. She may excel at competitive sports, and is often a star player on the boys team because she plays to rough to play with the girls. At some point she is forced into a feminine world where her violence and alpha nature is considered disruptive. Often adults will try to force her to be more "lady-like". The girls will exclude her from the group, making her feel even more isolated.
Many transsexuals eventually adopt the strategy of living in "stealth mode", attempting to look and act like others of their gender, and internally hating themselves for doing it. They are afraid to tell ANYONE how they really feel. They can't tell their parents, who may have helped force them into gender conformity. They can't tell their peers, who would thrust them back into isolation and persecution. Even though they are older, they often fear the same level and intensity of persecution and isolation they experienced as children. The fear, even terror is so real, that they can't even tell their most trusted friends, their lovers, or even their own spouses.
Inside, every moment they live in gender conformity is a moment of active and covert lying. I have often said it's a bit like being a Jewish girl in Nazi Europe. If they continue to live, dress, and act like Jews, they will be persecuted, tortured, and eventually killed. On the other hand, if they bleach their hair blonde, eat pork, beef and cheese, whipped creme, and all of the other "unkosher" foods, literally denying their very identity as Jews, they have the chance of survival, at least for one more day. Yet they always live in the terror that someone will recognize them for what they are. They will somehow give themselves away, with a gesture, a word, a Yiddish phrase, even the songs she learned as a child must never be sung.
So it is with the transgender. Even the FtM transgender struggles. She can wear pants, cut her hair short, and even beef up, but she knows that she must suffer the consequences and isolation if she expresses too much of her "masculine" side. If she is too aggressive and forceful, she gets labeled a "bitch" even though she is behaving no different than the "alpha males" in the same organization.
I know this is hard to understand, and it's hard to explain. There are many good books on gender roles and gender identities. The book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" attempted to try and capture just a few of the differences, but this was the tip of the iceberg. To those who are happy in their own gender roles, it's almost as difficult to conceive as the concept of water to a fish. If you take the fish out of the water for a few minutes, it might appreciate the concept of "no water" compared to "in water", and have some appreciation of being back in the water.
Because transgenders have this remarkable perspective on even the most basic "axioms" of our life and culture, they often grow up questioning and trying to understand everything around them, wanting to understand WHY they are the way they are, WHY others are the way they are, and WHY the world is how it is. They want to know WHY things work the way they do. This makes them outstanding in the world of technology, science, research, and even "soft" sciences like sociology, anthropology, and psychology. It also makes them more open to the ideas of others who question the status quo. When you study the development of breakthrough technologies, ranging from outer space technology to computers to the Internet, you often find that a substantial portion of the true innovators, those who originally conceived, developed, and championed new breakthrough technologies - were also transgendered, GLBT, or confronting other challenges, having to struggle to do things that most people take for granted.
Hello Melissa, this is a very interesting thought, can you elaborate on this a little for me as to why you would think this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badtranny
OK Reine you have compelled me to read the other thread, which I previously ignored because it seem like a fantasy thread. And I read all 7 pages of posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
What did I find? Well, many did say yes, unqualified, absolutely. But, many said no, no way, never. And, many said only if they could change back and forth.
A few said only if it didn't disrupt their family. A few qualified it to say only if they could go back in time (pre family). And yes, a few said only if they were more attractive. But no one, that I remember, said anything about being more "sexually" attractive, to either sex.
So I ask you: why are you reading "sexuality" and partner issues into all those varied answers (as one might reasonably expect here at cd.com)? After all as others mentioned above it was a fantasy question that was being addressed.
(And, as I post this I want you to know that your wisdom is one of the main reason I spend any time here at all. You are my definition of attractive.)
I also posted in the other thread that I thought many of the answers were rooted in fantasy, but internally I wondered if they weren't serious wishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor186
I realize there were many respondents who didn't bring sexuality into it. And a full 40% (I counted, lol) would not want to change at all. I don't want to target anyone, but these are just the first few things I read that indicated that some respondents would want to be sexually attractive rather than just nice-looking:
"Can I specify proportions?"
"would love for my body to feel the urges of a women, and be able to also feel the urges of a man"
"I'd love being Beyoncé, but Angela Merkel? No thanks!"
"Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes"
"Or maybe turn into a really good looking and built nice *******"
"only if I were young and beautiful"
"as long as I can pick my body and looks"
I've also read in this forum, time and time again, that having a nice body (men, not women, tend to be attracted to nice bodies) is important to many of the members and over time, many members have said (and they also have dressed like) they want to be sexy. You can see this in the choice of clothing, the poses, etc. The explanation in this thread that many CDers emulate the ideal that their male selves are attracted to makes sense to me, even though I still need to read through Jenni's post to digest why it is important to be attractive to themselves more than to their hetero GG partners.
I'll read through all the responses in this thread again tomorrow. There's a lot of good stuff here! :)
Reine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
That's so easy to answer. Some of us are ........Perverts ..lol... I'm even offended I said that ...But yes to be blunt we are still guys and the attraction verses the inner desire ( emulate verse's feel or both even) Emulate ..Having that girl you always wanted ( that girl being how we emulate our appearance tho we fail miserably ) ..Feel ... Feeling that girl you always wanted ( the sexy clothing)
.. Then again some of us on here ...Feel ..Really truly wanting to be just a girl and not the girl you always wanted but wanted to be ( that nasty spectrum thingy)..Sorry someone had to say it..
Reine,
That is a real Francophile question. I really have to go away read more of the other threa again and see what I can come up with.
I have sat here tossing a penny and each time I come up with an answer a contra one is there to confuse the issue.
The easy out of this one is.... I don't know.
To Melissa Hobbes.
Sorry Melissa if it was in another "specific section" I am thinking of there would be a cat fight and it may get closed prematurely.
I am inclined to filter out the fantasy bits and go with the rest.
Well, you should take into consideration the fact that the other thread was not directed to transgendered women, but crossdressers who probably have no real desire to actually be women. So being only a fantasy, it may be in whatever idealized way they prefer. Ask the same question in the Transexual Forum and the answers would be quite different.
The other day I was wondering how FFS appointments go, and what do people tell their doctors about what they want to look like. I, for one, know that if I decide to go through with surgical transition, I would take my sister´s photo. It may help that she isn´t ugly (she isn´t Eva Longoria either, let´s be realistic), but what´s important is she´s like my twin that was born eight years earlier. Turning my face into hers would be possible, and it would certainly satisfy me.
Now, back to fantasy land. It looks like you want to say there´s some flawed logic in wanting to be a good looking (by "male" standards) woman and expecting to be attractive to women, or wanting to transition while still keeping our dangly bits because lesbians don´t like dangly bits.
Well, in my experience, lesbians, like the rest of people, come in all varieties and tastes.
I´ve had a lesbian friend of mine cut the blood flow to my hand when a girl with a short dress and legs all the way down to the ground walked before us. Some like their women femme, some like them butch, and some don´t care that much about looks.
And about the second part... well, there´s webcomic author Erika Moen, who identifies as lesbian but much to her surprise fell in love with and married a man (she talks about that in her comic, it´s an interesting and fun read). When I started to accept I wasn´t just male and decided to do something about it, I was afraid I would end up alone because I would be too feminine for straight girls and too masculine for lesbians. In reality, since I´m out and about, none of my partners (short therm and long term... well, relatively long term, I still don´t find "the one") identified as straight (some as bi, some lesbian), and none of them complained about my penis. In the words of another lesbian friend: "The problem is not the penis, it´s what attached to it".
This isn't the thread to elaborate on my snark, but suffice to say most of the population here are logging on either before or after some "alone time" on the net. There's only a handful of CD's here who would have any interest in entertaining Reine's query.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady