It's important to remember u represent an entire community when u go out.

No you do not represent an entire community you just represent the one that wants to or do it the same way as you do , there are many that do not pass or even want to pass as women so are you saying that they should not go out , there are many different types of CD they are entitled to do it their way and not only to a certain standard , If you want this rule to stick then I sagest that you start with the Avatar pictures and any that does not come up to your standers have them removed as I am sure that there are more seeing them on the internet than in real life so then you can start your elitist forum.
Sorry but I just do not accept that some should take it upon themselves to dictate a certain standers for CDing the standers should come from withing yourself of how you act . the more of this I hear the less I want to be here ( which might just suit you ):) No wonder some are frightened to put their picture on here .

My parents always said "You represent you, if you want to look like a slob, that is on you." As I said in the other thread, I would like that everyone in the TG community present a positive image of us, but it isn't going to happen. What some think of as sexy is to most people creepy or gross. However, it is who they are. In a perfect world the TG would be seen as a constructive and important part of the world. Someone who people can trust and look up to, but with today's media and some people's "leanings" there will always be the one who sticks out and gets the attention...usually bad attention.

When was the last time you saw a positive news article about a TG person? We do have many good representatives you know, people who are changing the world in entertainment, politics, medicine and virtually every profession you can imagine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulaQ

"We must hang together, ladies...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately"
- Benjamin Franklin, um with edits by PaulaQ

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Very true.

Go out, have fun, don't be a jerk! Wait, that applies to everyone, not just CDs...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie

Doc, the statement is NEVER true. If you want to see just how untrue it is, apply it to other groups (Blacks, Jews, Gays, Asians) and you will see that it is this kind of collectivist thinking that motivates racism, sexism, homophobia, nationalism, & etc.

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I agree with this strongly.

Deedee

When I go out, I represent myself. I work hard to be a good person, because it is important to me that I am a good human being, not just a good CD.

But unfortunately it is unavoidable that the vast majority of folks will judge all of us based upon one of us, because often they will only ever meet one of us, if they meet any of us. Thus by default we represent all of us when we go out. We can all say we hate this, but it is pretty difficult to change basic human behaviors that at least 90% of humanity exhibit.

But yet again, this is just my never to be humble opinion.

I try to act & dress in a dignified manner, but people have, too often, their own preconceived notions & attitudes so they think just me being me, ArleneRaquel, is being disguisting & awful. My next door neighbor thinks that I'm, well I can't see it here. I have not loud parties, or anything that could be annoying, TV is always set low, I am never drunk, as I do not drink, and I could go on & on, but he hates my lifestyle and no matter how well I behave he will never change. Just my opinion.

There are a myriad of responses, not all that unexpected.

No one has mentioned that the part-timer can and will retreat into the guy, whether out of necessity, boredom or if the heat in public gets a bit too warm. Whatever the reason, this is something that is not afforded to our sisters who live as their true selves 24/7. They have to put up with whatever the public dishes at them. It may be little or nothing or it could be that constant barrage of sneers and chuckles that wears you down. This is why I subscribe to the theory Doc states in the OP, that while we are only responsible unto ourselves, there is a bigger picture to consider. This is a function of the differences within our community and it is highly unfair for anyone who is full time to walk in the wake of a person who is utterly disrespectful of women in their behavior and presentation.

As has been said, the negative image is the image which will be overwhelmingly burned into the minds of Muggles. I'd much rather be the image of grace under pressure and fun in the sun. Someone who is expressing herself/being herself with the understanding that everyone who sees me or engages me in conversation SHOULD walk away with that better sense of vision and/or understanding as to what the trans condition is all about...no matter what variation of trans one happens to be. I represent not only for myself and friends but also for each and every full-time woman who follows in my wake. The last thing I would want to do is make it difficult for them by way of creating any sort of negative perception.

All that said, I am not being all that altruistic because the behavior I describe is in my nature anyway. What I do is not conscious, it is 100% natural.

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Originally Posted by Princess Chantal

I believe that the statement is B.S..
Should I as a person who treats crossdressing as recreation really be expected to be representing someone with GID and vice versa?

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If you go out in public, yes. As has been said before, the Muggles have no way of discerning what species of trans you are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie

Doc, the statement is NEVER true. If you want to see just how untrue it is, apply it to other groups (Blacks, Jews, Gays, Asians) and you will see that it is this kind of collectivist thinking that motivates racism, sexism, homophobia, nationalism, & etc. The so-called "transgender community" is nothing but an abstraction. If that abstraction were to be used against me to deny me my right to to express myself as I see fit, then the "transgender community" is my enemy the same as the bigots they hope to placate. Luckily, I'm a closet case so I really have no dog in this fight.

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The bad apples can certainly spoil the barrel no matter which barrel you are talking about.

We all want freedom of expression, to have the ability to dress as we wish and go where we wish to go. With freedom comes responsibility, and too many are not willing to take up the responsibility that comes with freedom. The very name of this thread is saying exactly that to me, are you willing to be responsible? As someone once said, "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance", to be vigilant is to be watchful, especially to avoid danger. In a society that doesn't approve of a lot of our behaviors, we need to exercise a little more watchfullness and act an little more responsibly. I see the quickest road to acceptance as being line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little. The route to rejection is paved with someone getting into anothers face, and doing something stupid.

I live in a large metro area and to my knowledge I have never seen a cd out in public, now that may mean that I'm not very observent, but if I saw only one, then I would assume that others of the group are similar because I have no other information. Soooo, those of us who do go out (I don't at the point) do become a representive of the group whether we like it or not, to those who may see us. That being said, I like Lorileah's recollection of her mother's admonition, "you represent yourself". I would like to think that my mother although she is deceased would always approve of my behaviour, if not the clothes I wore!

Lorileah, I did see a television news interview about the local vigil on Nov 20 for the TG day of rememberence. The person interviewed was a epresentive of the group and was presenting as female. Although not identified as TG or TS I would assume that that was the case based on facial apprearance and voice. The interview was very professional only presenting the facts of the alarming number of murders around the world particulary in Brazil!

My two cents, Bria

Those that dissent from the opinion that "we are representatives of our community" are right in one respect; neither I nor anyone else can control how they choose to present themselves when they go out. We can attempt to persuade; we cannot force any action.

However, we also cannot control the opinions of those cisgendered folks that may see us and draw conclusions from our appearance and behavior. And, while it may be fun to go wild and "freak the mundanes" (to use a term from science-fiction fandom), such actions may color people's attitudes negatively even towards those of us who are trying hard to blend or pass, and not draw undue attention to themselves. This is not a judgment on the actions of any CD that does so. This is a statement of the way things are.

The only one I can control is myself. And, for myself, I choose to try and set a good example on behalf of my sisters as well as myself. (I believe that at least part of why I was tapped to be our Meetup group's event organizer, is because I do set a good example. I infer that I must be doing something right.)

- Amy

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

No one has mentioned that the part-timer can and will retreat into the guy, whether out of necessity, boredom or if the heat in public gets a bit too warm. Whatever the reason, this is something that is not afforded to our sisters who live as their true selves 24/7. This is a function of the differences within our community and it is highly unfair for anyone who is full time to walk in the wake of a person who is utterly disrespectful of women in their behavior and presentation.

If you go out in public, yes. As has been said before, the Muggles have no way of discerning what species of trans you are.

The bad apples can certainly spoil the barrel no matter which barrel you are talking about.

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I am sorry Sara Jessica, I cannot agree with this. Are you saying that we "part-timers" should not go out if we cannot represent perfectly and always provide a positive image for full time CDers?

When I post about my experiences as a "part-timer" I tend to gloss over some of the more negative interactions as I don't want to scare off my sisters who may be thinking about going out as these negatives are far outweighed by the positives. Perhaps I should not. Anyway, I think I do a reasonable job of blending but passing not in a million years and most people on close inspection see "guy" in women's clothing. I was out with a GG friend in a store and she needed to use the rest rooms so I walked with her to the rest room but did not enter as I did not need to go. A woman with her teenage daughter was coming behind us when she looked at me she said "Listen pervert, if you make a move toward the ladies rest room while we are in there, I'll have you arrested and you better tell your friend to come out or he'll be arrested as well"

Now granted if I were dressed over the top (short skirt, stilettos, crop top, big hair and wild make-up) it would have been more obvious. But the point is I was trying to blend and make a reasonable presentation and failed as I often do because I get read all the time.

To bottle the genie, it would not have mattered how I was dressed, this woman had an impression of CDers as perverts (not sure where she got it) but she did not look at me and say . . . "Oh now here is a CDer who is trying to represent women in a good light . . . I think I'll be kind". Nope she just saw "tranny pervert" and launched. So I left her with a negative stereotype regardless of my attempt to blend. So should I have to avoid public presentation from this point forward?

Dividing ourselves into camps does nothing to help us as a collective group. My goodness, I left high school many moons ago . . . can't we just accept each other for who we are and live our own lives to be the best person possible.

Hugs

Isha

Isha, either you didn't read my entire post or you have never read much of what I have ever written in the past. I may be "full-time at heart" but beyond that, I'm as part-time in presentation as they come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isha

I am sorry Sara Jessica, I cannot agree with this. Are you saying that we "part-timers" should not go out if we cannot represent perfectly and always provide a positive image for full time CDers?

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Nope. That'd be saying I cannot represent and present a positive image.

If you take my entire post, or at least look at the paragraph just past the point where you parsed my reply, you would see that I am talking about my own personal responsibility in the image I want to present. My goal is for a level of positivity in both behavior and presentation so that any full-time woman who comes after me MIGHT encounter someone who has a better perception of who we are and what we're all about.

While there may be debate as to how much of a "community" we have or who comprises it, the Muggles are largely unaware of such nuances.

At the end of the day, ANYONE (including myself) who only presents as female part-time CAN & DOES retreat back into guy-mode at will, a luxury our 24/7 sisters do not share with us.

So please Isha, I am certainly not dividing anyone into camps. I'm simply acknowledging the interrelationship between the different species of trans and how we can in fact affect one another when it comes to public perception. True, we cannot overcome previously engrained negative perceptions. The woman who called you a pervert and warned you not to enter the restroom is coming from a place that none of us can likely overcome. My point is why make it worse with poor judgement (not saying you did this, I'm just making a more sweeping statement) when out & about?

I do not believe in the fashion police, I do not believe in the manners police, and I don't even think there is a CD police!
I have a Dr. That is Black, and down town I've seen a black man that is obviously selling drugs, which man do you think represents the black community.
Should the drug dealer dress like my Doctor, or should he dress like a drug dealer? You are you, you only present who you are, you have nothing to do with me
and how I present, and why should you. Group thinking always leads to us vs. Them type thinking, do cross dresser embarrass Transsexuals, do fetish dressers embarrass non fetish dressers, are high end shopper embarrassed with sisters that shop thrift shops? Where do we draw the line, and just get to be ourselves, after all isn't that what we started dressing for, to find ourselves?
If I had to worry about the whole community every time I put on a dress I would stop putting on a dress, I don't need the pressure.

Good analogy to help distinguish my point, Tina B., about the doctor versus the drug dealer, both of whom happen to be African-American. Times have changed in that most people can distinguish that the drug dealer doesn't represent the entirety of his race. But I dare to say that when it comes to TG, we're far from being at that point. For the most part, the Muggles don't encounter us enough to have formed educated opinions. This is why there is such pervasive fear with part-timers stepping out into the word. People can be utterly ignorant about us and when we are encountered once in a blue moon, that ignorance may very well show in a variety of forms.

But at the end of the day this is all about personal choice and if you CHOOSE to allow any sense of personal responsibility into the mix, so be it. No one is saying what anyone can or cannot do when out & about. All of my points are about my own choices and that it doesn't hurt to simply be a bit mindful of those who might follow. No one is saying "us vs. them". No one is being trying to divide. Just the opposite, I'm saying "us should think of them" when it comes to part-timers and full time women, representing an entire community that may or may not exist in cohesiveness within our ranks but certainly does from an outsider's perspective who doesn't understand any better.

Situation #1. Until recently, I was only a closet dresser. (And, still am at heart). A place where I can dress as sexy or crazy as I please. (Most of my home photos r not allowed on this site for one reason or another).

When I was forced to go out dressed to vanilla venues and switch into granny gear, I hated it! I didn't do it because I represented "our community". I just didn't want to embarrass myself or the girls I was out with!:o

Situation #2. As I began going out to T girl friendly clubs, I was able to dress sexier, racier. I like what I see in my mirror before going out now. No matter how naughty I dress, I know others will out do me and in I'll fit rite in!:D

Altho we sometimes go out to dinner in a group before clubbing, I risk some disapproving stares from a few of the muggles there. I can live with that because I think I look good!:battingeyelashes:

Situation #3. Since I don't like dressing in granny gear to go to vanilla venues, I don't any more! Recently accompanying one T friend or another out for dinner and drinks or to a shopping mall, I happily let them dress while go in drab. No blending or stress for me! No one seems to worry about me poorly representing males!:heehee:

Situation #4. I've never worried about representing anyone but myself until now. However, a while back I was invited to ride the Tgirl float in a LGBT parade in LA. I was very excited and picked out a couple of hot looking outfits. But then, became conflicted. Worrying about my mask misrepresenting T's as fetish folks. I wasn't going to ride up on a float with my ugly mug showing either. I skipped the parade!:sad:

I don't think there r any easy or correct answers to this question! Not for me, anyway!:straightface:

If the goal is to gain acceptance for the so-called "transgender community" then dressing to pass/blend is not going to do anything to further that goal. Because, to the extent that you are successful at passing/blending, you do not even exist as far as the muggles are concerned. So it is left up to the flamboyant CDs, the bearded old men in mini-skirts and fishnet stockings, to gain acceptance. Because they are the ones that put themselves out on the firing line and épater le bourgeois. They are the ones that take the abuse. It's not my thing but I applaud those with guts to do it. I don't know what passer/blenders are even complaining about. Everyone just walks by thinking you're just another GG. Right? At least that's the goal. And if you are clocked, you might as well be a bearded old man in a mini-skirt. A dude in a dress is a dude in a dress to the average muggle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isha

I was out with a GG friend in a store and she needed to use the rest rooms so I walked with her to the rest room but did not enter as I did not need to go. A woman with her teenage daughter was coming behind us when she looked at me she said "Listen pervert, if you make a move toward the ladies rest room while we are in there, I'll have you arrested and you better tell your friend to come out or he'll be arrested as well"

Now granted if I were dressed over the top (short skirt, stilettos, crop top, big hair and wild make-up) it would have been more obvious. But the point is I was trying to blend and make a reasonable presentation and failed as I often do because I get read all the time.

To bottle the genie, it would not have mattered how I was dressed, this woman had an impression of CDers as perverts (not sure where she got it) but she did not look at me and say . . . "Oh now here is a CDer who is trying to represent women in a good light . . . I think I'll be kind". Nope she just saw "tranny pervert" and launched. So I left her with a negative stereotype regardless of my attempt to blend. So should I have to avoid public presentation from this point forward?

Dividing ourselves into camps does nothing to help us as a collective group. My goodness, I left high school many moons ago . . . can't we just accept each other for who we are and live our own lives to be the best person possible.

Hugs

Isha

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Oh my, Isha! I'm mortified at that woman's behavior. I'm not sure what your response to her was (I would have simply been too shocked to reply), but I'll bet it was gracious. And that is the whole point. Even in the face of diversity, a gracious response will do more to help one's image (and transitively, the reputation of the group at large) than changing one's approach to dressing.

Based on your posts, I suspect that woman missed an opportunity to know a remarkable person.

Hi Heidi,

My response to the woman was that I had no intention of using the ladies room and that the "he" she was referring to was most certainly a "she". I then offered to call mall security on her behalf but that she should be darn sure about her assumptions because vexatious complaints (should the police be called) are not taken lightly by the police. I could see her daughter was getting very embarrassed at this point so I asked to speak the lady privately and appealed to here good sense as a mother to cease the drama for her daughter's sake as we were beginning to draw attention. She left in a bit of a huff but in the end it became a non issue.

Hugs

Isha

I believe we are all responsible for our community. As someone stated here that most people in get thier impression of us from Jerry Springer. Any time we can put our community in a more excepting position, the better. There will always be the outlandish girls, but that is true with GGs also, and they too get comments and stares. I think we as trasangender women should put our best foot forward as a way to educate others that we are just people who want to live our lives in peace.

IMHO when you go out you are representing yourself, however the way that you are dressed will have an impact on how Joe public sees the community. You go out in night club gear to the supermarket and the public will think that is how all those in the community go shopping, when infact the majority go dressed casual just like any GG would do. But the vision of that person all dolled up doing the shopping will stick in the minds of Joe public and that is how the whole community will be seen, giving a false impression.

[QUOTE] I think this statement made by Doc is very true. Anytime someone sees one of us in public it leaves an impression of some kind or another. I always try to look my very best and dress for my age unless I'm going out to a glamour/drag event or costume party wearing a long ball gown etc. I feel dressing the best I can makes it easier for someone to approach me, maybe ask questions if they want to and maybe, maybe I can shed a little bit of light to that person about what we do and change that person's view point.

If I'm dressed with belly shirts, tight shorts, PVC boots and have a beard then people might not be so inclined to engage me and worse case leave them impression in someone's head that we're all just a bunch of creepo's. [QUOTE]

I represent myself no one else! Some of you are having delusions as to what you think your preferred "community" should be. so the person who wrote the following post shouldn't go out cause thier makin you look bad, I say EFF U!

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...very-board!%29