The "man in a skirt" phenomenon

Please read the following again from the OP so we may stay on topic

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Originally Posted by Secret Drawer

In a recent post someone said that they felt disingenuous when they put on makeup and a wig before going out in public because it felt like a disguise. Yet this person prefers wearing women's clothing over mens out in public. Is this a case of a “man” looking to shock or be humiliated publicly? No, it is simply that person happens to have genetically male looking features with a more feminine featured mindset. It would seem that some people (many of us being right here!) are actually not at all “men in skirts.” We are simply more accurately depicting who we are on the inside. It is not my fault that I have male pattern baldness or facial hair or even that I have a penis! I was born with those genes in place, sorry about that!
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I am the average balding dude who on the weekends has some facial hair and enjoys relaxing in jeans or shorts and a t-shirt or sweat shirt depending on the weather.
Yes years ago before I summoned up the courage to transform myself completely so I would be comfortable presenting as a female in public I would underdress in whatever I could hide with my outer clothing.

When I ask why would anyone else in this same situation make the decision to change only the jeans or shorts for a feminine skirt (not a male kilt or equivalent)
I am not being hostile or venomous. I am really trying to understand what makes this person not care about being seen this way. I like a very large percentage of the population would see him and thing WTF ? is this guy pulling a stunt of some kind? Is he being punished by someone trying to humiliate him or what?


This is a forum for discussion and help and information for MTF CD's so rather than become hostile and venomous with each other could we make an attempt to understand each other with open and honest dialogue.

The reasoning of he is just trying to express his inner self needs further examination. Under-dressing but still hidden helps thousands of us here to obtain the feeling of feminine clothing, I get that. Dressing gender neutral or gender fluid is not seeking shock value its still a way to hopefully escape public ridicule. Trying to pass fully in public helps thousands more express that inner self too but its done usually with the fear of being read and humiliated for doing so.

What makes this balding dude needing a shave desire to be different?
Perhaps he is a little crazy
Perhaps he is a little perverted
Or Perhaps he is the only brave one.

It seems to me that he's the individual who might be the bravest one.

You say that you are trying to understand "what makes this person not care about being seen this way." Don't you think an average, non-cd/tg individual might ask the same question about you or I? It's as if people here are trying to insinuate that dressing to pass is more "normal" than being a beard in a skirt. This bothers me, because it's essentially saying that one form of crossdressing is more valid or right than another.

And to say that it doesn't really exist on this forum is a bunch of hooey, because I've seen plenty of picture threads with responses like "you'd look really great, if you'd just shave all that icky hair off your face," or "nice skirt, but all that hair is just so jarring!" That stuff just reinforces the notion that one has to follow certain rules when putting on clothes. I can't even begin to express the level of irony inherent in a crossdresser putting forth that sentiment.

I think we also tend to forget that those of us who do go the whole nine yards are often not nearly as passable as we'd like to think. If 28 CDs walk into a room, they're going to get a roomful of eyes on them whether or not two of them are dressed like infants, or Little Bo Peep, or Cher circa 1989. To pretend otherwise is just to throw members of our own minority under the bus in the hope that we might gain wider acceptance for ourselves. Maybe we need to coin a cd/ts/tg equivalent term for Uncle Tom.

Instead of expending so much energy wondering why Pencilskirt McBeardyton does what he does, wouldn't it make more sense to put that energy into standing together with him? At the end of the day, John Q. Public is probably going to lump the dress-to-pass type in the same boat, after all.

Thank you Gemina Renee for such a great read.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

Could there be any better proof of that than this thread?

I love wearing skirts while dressed as a girl, but I don't think I could wear it in male mode in reality. It's just not aceptible by the general public. Most of the people know about crossdressers and kind of accept them, the same as gays, but men wearing only skirt or high heels, otherwise wearing male clothes, people see them as freaks.
But if some day skirt for men will become generally acceptable, I know I'll wear them.

Hoo boy, I need to get my camera sorted out and post some pictures to demonstrate my "style"

THE FOLLOWING ARE SOME OF THE REASONS I DO THIS, IT DOES NOT SPEAK FOR OTHERS.

I used to describe myself as a crossdresser, that what was what I called myself when I told my soon to be GF about things she needed to know. I don't anymore, though I accept that parts of what I do are connected to "fetish" crossdressing.

My aim is to get out more in public in skirts, or at least sports, or hiking type kilts. Why? I've found, that skirts are more comfortable, I like the way they look, the way they draw attention to, and accentuate my legs, I like the feel of stockings and thigh highs, (after much experimentation, pantyhose has issues for me) and they work well with skirts. I can feel that nice "snug" feeling around my legs, but can choose underwear which fits and feels nicely. Pants don't work the same, or are as comfortable. I think if I could afford my own tailor/seamstress, or learn to do it, I could come up with pants that would do something similar, but I can't afford/do that.

This has all come about because of my experimentation that started when I began hanging out at my GF's place and began keeping some extra clothes there. Men's stuff, as well, the first piece of girl's clothing, other than underwear that I wore there was an old pair of yoga pants my GF gave me for lounging comfort.

Now, it has become somewhat of a situation where I'm fighting mainstream perception (and my own perception partly) Who the hell says I can't wear a skirt? Functionally, it's no different from a kilt, I'd be pretty happy just wearing kilts, if they were more generally available, and much, much, cheaper. (Note, I'm talking modern iterations of a kilt, not the traditional, those are extremely heavy)

My favourite outfit, the one I tend to throw on when I get home, is a just past knee length lined wool skirt, in a diagonal plaid/tartan, along with a long sleeve thin wool sweater, the same one I wear as male. I may put on a pair of thigh highs as well, depending on availability, temperature or whether or not my legs look especially pale. My GF thinks the outfit looks good, and I have to defend this skirt from her, as she keeps threatening to carry it off the to the sewing machine and make if fit her hips!

I don't particularly want to go out with a group of crossdressers, and if I did, I would expect that the presentation is sufficiently different from a CDer that had spent considerable time making a believable presentation, that I would not look like one their sisters that just couldn't be bothered.

For me, this is all wrapped up with physical comfort, sensuality, sexual display, objection to current male/female stereotypes, freedom of expression, and a bunch of other stuff that we could spend days exploring to the last little nook and cranny.

I myself have "objections" in my own head, to some outfits that some men-in-skirts wear, though I don't try to stop them doing it, because I understand, that for the most part, it simply that we are not used to seeing that. There are some outfits, or articles of clothing, that I would like to wear, and I think, look good, but they are just too unfamiliar and wouldn't fly.

Side issue, when I was younger in the UK, I used to wear exclusively swim briefs, what most North Americans call speedos, pretty much all men did, nobody thought anything of it. That's what you wear to the pool or beach. Yes, you can see an outline, so what? You don't think guys have genitals? These days, unless it's at a pool where most people are doing exercise laps, (and even then, the board shorts are taking over!) you get looks, and see people talking to each other about it, occasional people say something to you. What's changed? Social custom, partly due to the switch of countries, but also the change over time. It's almost as bad, sometimes worse, in the UK these days. It really isn't that long since men were the dandies, wore tunics, robes, stockings, tights, codpieces,...High heels were invented for a man for Pete's sake!

Bottom line, If I wear a skirt out as my (very) male self, it has nothing to do with Transsexuals, people who are Transgender, Crossdressers, Gays, or any others. It isn't meant to be a comment, on what you wear or are, and you shouldn't take it that way. If the general public takes it that way, it isn't my fault, and you shouldn't be asking me, to fix that problem.

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Originally Posted by GeminaRenee

Instead of expending so much energy wondering why Pencilskirt McBeardyton does what he does, wouldn't it make more sense to put that energy into standing together with him? At the end of the day, John Q. Public is probably going to lump the dress-to-pass type in the same boat, after all.

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What a sad thought. Without trying to understand or question any of what makes us such a diverse group we should just blindly stand by each other because we are all doomed anyway?

Wild WTF?

Underdresser Thank you for your honesty and explanation of your personal reasons. This is what forums like this should be about. Questions being presented and responses being given in a manner to which explains the way one thinks so others might understand.
You do seem to be a brave one.

Just because I need makeup and you don't or that member A loves pink and member B only likes blue does not mean either of them are trying to force the other to comply or follow a certain set of rules.

I can't help but think what the conversation may have been when the very first guy lowered his jeans to just above his crotch and had to hold them up with one hand to be able to walk without them falling down. That started a trend and perhaps you will be one of the forefathers of the man in a skirt trend. Does questioning what motivated this make me out to be the bad guy? I hope not but my shoulders are broad enough to carry the burden of asking question of what I don't understand.

It would be a lot easier to just bury your head in the sand and never question anyone different than me, but then why would I need to even be on this site if I though that way?

Birds of a feather and whatnot.

People are instinctively drawn to others who are like them, so it's natural for the "man in a skirt" crowd to be marginalized on a forum like this. To my mind, that form of cross-dressing is the same without the delusion that most of the "fully dressed" crowd seem to suffer. I skim through the forum every day or so, and I'm routinely astounded by the remarks I see from cross-dressers. They are on the whole, a seriously deluded and entitled group of people.

The very idea that an 'upright family man' who secretly dresses like a woman and fantasizes about "that particular part" of a man every chance he gets would feel no compunction about criticizing a "dude in a dress" is a bizarre idea indeed.

I think the "dude in a dress" is a hell of a lot more honest and brave than the conservative closet queen who actively cultivates a life that would shun him and friends that would hate him if he only had an ounce of courage.

Well any member on this site who could not support what any of us do as long as it's not harm full to others would surprise me considering who we are...That said, me personally I love my guy side but when I go femme I want to get as femme as I possibly can..I want to look and feel the part...I want to walk the walk...I want my "guy" side pushed to the backround... When I'm a guy though, I do like to cheat and have some femme going on too, just for me, no one else notices.

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Originally Posted by kendra_gurl

What a sad thought. Without trying to understand or question any of what makes us such a diverse group we should just blindly stand by each other because we are all doomed anyway?

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Doomed in what sense? To not pass? Calling that doom seems a bit hyperbolic to me.

We're certainly doomed as a group, though, if we create unneeded divisions amongst ourselves - doomed to continue to be marginalized, pointed at, and outcast.

No-one is suggesting that you not try and understand the "why" of things. But let's just say that when your first two hypothetical answers to such a question are that someone might be a pervert (whatever that means), or that he's looking for shock value, well - don't be surprised when people question your open-mindedness.

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Originally Posted by Babbs

Well any member on this site who could not support what any of us do as long as it's not harm full to others would surprise me considering who we are...

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Well said

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Originally Posted by Babbs

That said, me personally I love my guy side but when I go femme I want to get as femme as I possibly can..I want to look and feel the part...I want to walk the walk...I want my "guy" side pushed to the backround... When I'm a guy though, I do like to cheat and have some femme going on too, just for me, no one else notices.

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Exactly. That's your thing. If this forum is to have rules specifying what does and doesn't count as "acceptable crossdressing" it will go down the pan pretty fast. So far, the mods have been pretty good about stopping offensive attacks on members who don't have exactly the same attitudes. Questions, requests for explanation, even polite disagreement and declarations of "I just don't see it myself" perfectly acceptable. If I come to your party, I'll check with you what you will accept me wearing, but if object to your rules badly enough, don't expect me to turn up.

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

People are instinctively drawn to others who are like them, so it's natural for the "man in a skirt" crowd to be marginalized on a forum like this.

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It sounds like you are saying that the majority here are only those that "would go all the way" in dressing or even further, in transitioning? I'm not at all that certain, I think there are a lot of others like myself who inhabit the sidelines for the most part, and maybe because they have a broader view, are less likely to jump in with"That's not right"

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Originally Posted by Secret Drawer

While some here prefer the light is on or light is off approach to dressing (all or nothing), others (generally considered gender fluid/ gender queer) have a light that is constantly on the dimmer switch, never really off and rarely fully on either.

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Some Labels I might Associate with ME

If we are to use labels for a moment I'm closer to gender fluid / gender queer. Androgynous / Androgyne. Bi-gender or Two Spirited. These labels may start to give you a flavor of who I am. But I don't think any one label(s) or term(s) describes the real me inside, what I feel every day.

What Motivated This / My Theory

Exactly why I can not say. But after years of searching and study I've come to the conclusion that there are two sides to my gender identity, my yin and yang, masculine and feminine. That I need to present and acknowledge both these parts. I can not just be male, only Steve, as I tried to do for over fifty years. That also means I can not just be female, Debbie. I should not remove the man and be only a woman. That would cause another conflict. I am not a girl trapped in a man's body. It means I am more.

Why do I do What I do?

I do what I do to feel myself, to feel normal, to feel genuine. Hiding a part of myself causes a conflict, my gender dysphoria. For me the secret needed to come out. The conflict needed to end. And so I present as I do to feel right in this body.

How I present in Public Everyday

My daily presentation does change, usually more casual feminine clothes and some times more masculine, but always some kind of skirt, knee length or longer. Also an A-line style to give the illusion of hips and a smaller body top. Think of a tom girl with a skirt kind of look. I always have my, natural shoulder length long hair, usually my silver earrings but not always and usually a dainty feminine silver necklace and butterfly. I try to shave every time I go out in public. A beard is not part of my look. But to be genuine I do not wear makeup at the moment. I work with my hands a lot, think about a rural area, so painted nails are just not practical on a daily basis. Remember... I'm not trying to imitate a woman. I am not a woman. But neither am I trying to present as a man. I may have a male body but I am more, like a Androgyne person who I believe does not fit into either or thinking, male or female, masculine or feminine. Think rainbow of choices. Mine just leans more feminine but not completely.

I do wear a bra that does create some cleavage. But I do not stuff the bra or wear forms. I feel better feeling what nature gave me. My legs are always shaved and I wear Capri length legging under my skirt in cooler weather. My shoes are some kind of causal flats, something feminine but also masculine in flavor, rugged but dainty. The rest of my hidden lingerie is feminine but practical.

Further Thoughts / Conclusion

This is not an easy way to live because of what some in society think or say. But attitudes do seem like they are changing for the better. But I do feel calmer and more genuine. I tend to walk around with blinders on to avoid stares, but that can be my fear at times keeping my shields up. But I do love the smiles I get from a few women and I love to smile back. So it is worth it, though I know some might disagree with me and say unkind words behind my back or to themselves. That's their issue and not mine. I have my own life, my path to walk to be myself.

I fully admit that I probably fit into the guy in a skirt mode more than going the whole nine yards. That does not mean that the whole nine yards doesn't occasionally happen. I have seen from many of the responders that they want to be in the all guy, or all girl mode of dressing, and that is ok with me. I, myself have attempted to live my life to become as consistant as possible as I can in all arenas of my life. By that I mean that my deepest desire is that I am the same person regardless of the environment, or situation I am in. In my perfect world, I would go guy on the top and girl below the waist, the exception being a cami instead of a t-shirt. Why, I like lingerie, skirts and hose, to me nothing is more comfortable than a skirt and hose! Do I have the freedom to do this in my small town? Unfortunately no, My work and community involvement would suffer, but probably not as much as I might think.
The problem with deception is that it is so deceiving and what we see as truth might not be what we think it is. I can see in the mirror that I would never pass, so I don't. Many on this site can...but don't deceive yourself, I look at the photos that everyone posts. Many can look the part, but the way you stand gives one the thought of a guy, to put it plainly. Theere is more to being a woman, than looking the part!
If anything is to be learned for myself through this life, it is this, be true to yourself. If being true to yourself is going the whole nine yards, then who am I to disagree with you! After all of my pendulum swinging stopped, I found my comfort zone, and it's more a guy in a skirt than the whole nine yards.

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Originally Posted by UNDERDRESSER

It sounds like you are saying that the majority here are only those that "would go all the way" in dressing or even further, in transitioning?

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What? That's not even close to what I meant. The few here that would actually transition could probably all fit in my car.
I was merely saying that dudes who wear women's clothes out in public without makeup or with "man head" as they say, are a clear minority of the people who actually post.

If you want to argue that point, you'll have to argue it with someone else.

Unfortunately as wonderful as this forum is I have had a glass of that Kool-aid and in fairness may have actually earned a sip or two of it. The true animosity thankfully comes from a very small but incredibly vocal minority among the larger group. If you can look through some of the animosity sometimes you can find a useable piece of information or understanding.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

I too am curious as to why a man would walk around town in a skirt but not otherwise try to appear female. Genuinely curious.

And I really am curious how it affects one's family and employment. I mean if someone sees me out and dressed, they might say "Boy that woman looks a lot like Joe.", but if I was wearing a skirt but had a beard and bald head they would say "What's the matter with Joe, parading around town in a skirt?"

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I don't care much for facial hair whether I'm in pants or skirts. I like skirts and dresses and heels and hose and..... I won't be able to explain to you precisely why I like them. Why doesn't the liking of such things automatically trigger a desire for wigs, forms, padding and a name that isn't really mine? I believe because I am not a female. I won't make much sense to you unless you can break the automatic assignment of skirts and dresses to women/femininity.

As for the effect on my family; my wife is not a fan. If I go out of the house in a skirt or dress it's most likely she will not be accompanying me. I checked with her and that would not change if I were to go the full route even if I successfully passed. My son may or may not go depending on where I am going. My neighbor waves and says hello whether I'm in a dress or my work pants. Work sees my long hair and fingernails on a regular basis. I've found the less of a production I make of it when somebody asks me about it the better is seems to go.

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Originally Posted by kendra_gurl

Jennifer sure they are not trying to pass as female but that is no answer as to why are they wearing a skirt in male mode if not to shock or draw attention.

I agree with their right to exist. I just want to understand their reason. Even you in the next quote state you do not do this while in public without trying to blend

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Kendra,

No one since 2011 has given you any reason other than mock and shock for a man to wear a skirt as a man?

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Originally Posted by kendra_gurl

I am the average balding dude who on the weekends has some facial hair and enjoys relaxing in jeans or shorts and a t-shirt or sweat shirt depending on the weather.
Yes years ago before I summoned up the courage to transform myself completely so I would be comfortable presenting as a female in public I would underdress in whatever I could hide with my outer clothing.

Trying to pass fully in public helps thousands more express that inner self too but its done usually with the fear of being read and humiliated for doing so.

What makes this balding dude needing a shave desire to be different?
Perhaps he is a little crazy
Perhaps he is a little perverted
Or Perhaps he is the only brave one.

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I don't worry about being humiliated by being read because I appear as who I am. Our main difference is what it takes to achieve the level of comfort you mentioned. You need the entire transformation to be comfortable enough with you to go out that way and yet still seem to harbor the innate fear that you will be caught and humiliated. A recently shaved face and modest length clothing is usually enough for me.

I bolded that last part because it's simply amazing. I am at least 2.67 of those 3 things.

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

Birds of a feather and whatnot.

People are instinctively drawn to others who are like them, so it's natural for the "man in a skirt" crowd to be marginalized on a forum like this. To my mind, that form of cross-dressing is the same without the delusion that most of the "fully dressed" crowd seem to suffer. I skim through the forum every day or so, and I'm routinely astounded by the remarks I see from cross-dressers. They are on the whole, a seriously deluded and entitled group of people.

The very idea that an 'upright family man' who secretly dresses like a woman and fantasizes about "that particular part" of a man every chance he gets would feel no compunction about criticizing a "dude in a dress" is a bizarre idea indeed.

I think the "dude in a dress" is a hell of a lot more honest and brave than the conservative closet queen who actively cultivates a life that would shun him and friends that would hate him if he only had an ounce of courage.

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Melissa,

Three things tried to go through my mind at the same time when I read your post.
1. Whango! (As a high speed object makes it's way out of the ballpark.)
2. Thanks, somebody gets it!
3. Duck and watch for the brickbats!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I grapple with these thoughts all the time, due to the fact that I don't really think the term 'cross dresser' really applies to me. I have no desire to try to pass as a woman, in fact, I couldn't if I tried. I've been a body builder for the last 30 years, I have a beard, and I shave my head. I have no feminine alter ego, and I'm not trying to get in touch with my 'female side'.

I do however like to wear satin, and silky underthings, and sometimes I like to wear skirts and cami tops. I am, in short, occasionally 'a man in a dress'. Gender queer may be a more apt label - though there seems to be some politics enmeshed in that term, and I don't wear women's clothes to make a political statement. I just like wearing nice things.

Oddly enough this is the only forum on the internet where I use my real name.

Just going to chime in here again . . . I promise not to rant. When I first started going out I was nervous all the time, afraid people would guess I was a CDer . . . um reality check . . . I am a CDer :doh:. It wasn't until I came to grips with the fact that I wasn't fooling anyone that I could not be comfortable being out.

I am a guy, birth determined, genetically defined. Do I dress like a girl and wear make-up? You bet. Does that magically transform me into a woman? Nope, people look at me and see a dude in a dress/jeans/shorts/skirt whatever. I suspect it is the same for 90 percent of CDers as we all have tells which say "dude". :devil: However, I prefer to dress complete because that is what makes me feel good. Does that make me more afraid to just be myself? Nope because dressing "en femme" is who I am. We owe the same courtesy to our sisters/brethren who prefer to just be themselves in a dress beard and all.

Hugs

Isha

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

What? That's not even close to what I meant. The few here that would actually transition could probably all fit in my car.
I was merely saying that dudes who wear women's clothes out in public without makeup or with "man head" as they say, are a clear minority of the people who actually post.

If you want to argue that point, you'll have to argue it with someone else.

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No worries, I'm not arguing that at all. I agree with you that we are in a minority of posters, but maybe not of members, and also maybe not a minority of those are more relaxed about how others show their differences.

Hugs to all
Rita

It strikes me that a few people here would like to be prescriptive about what is right and what is wrong. For me, what I choose to wear is MY business. I don't dress to shock, but if I see someone in the street with the total drag queen look, then chuckles! That's fun. Or a bearded guy in a skirt - that's fine!

Please don't tell me to fall in line with YOUR expectations with my choice of clothing. And don't do it to others either!

I have always felt, and feeling is the operative word here, that gender identification is a place on a spectrum of opportunity. Am I 'totally male', am I 'totally female'...do I need to choose one or the other? No, I am somewhere on the spectrum, dressing and behaving as I feel on any given day. Some days a girl, some days a guy, some days somewhere in between. Am I accepted in society where I land each day... and who I choose to be... probably not. Is that my problem? Not so much. Am I a 'man in a skirt'? Depends on who you talk to I guess.
Love to all,
Trisha

Wow! It seems as though mine and other's comments brought this discussion to a very interesting place. My main concern is with people's innate rights to do what they want as long as they do not harm others. I am in favor of gay marriage, absolute separation of church and state and all of the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution.
"If we do not hang together, we shall certainly hang separately." -Benjamin Franklin on the eve of the American Revolution. Journalist, publisher, author, scientist and revolutionary.

What I do:
I present male. When I get an opportunity, I will wear all women's wear. Normally a skirt, top, hose and shoes. Sometimes I wear heels. No breasts, no purse, no wig or makeup. I wear clothes that are similar to what I wear in boy-mode. No flowers or lace. Normally plain colors. Knee length skirts. I do not think I try to be in-your-face about things. At least, I hope I don't...

Where I have worn a skirt in public:
I have gone out to the mall and other stores. I have eaten at a restaurant a couple times. A hair cut once. Flown pretty. Gone to the bank. I have attended a TG meeting once. I attended a couple meetings that was in no way crossdressing related.

My motivations:
I have never wanted to be a girl, except when I was a kid and I thought that was the only way to be allowed to wear girls' clothes. I used to only dress up in the house. I started getting the urge to go out. Those urges keep pushing me farther out. When I was in public wearing shorts and hose, I would be disappointed if no one noticed. But I believe it is correct that I do not want to be shocking. I suppose if you are not interested in ever going back to the same place again, then you are more interested in shock value.

My experiences:
Most people try not to stare. Some people nudge their friends to get them to look. Most people move on after getting their look. Two times has someone laughed out loud at me. Once a store clerk told me she preferred how I did not try to present female. I tried to explain to her that for some CDs, becoming a girl was what it was all about. For me it was just about the clothes and the feeling of them.
When I have had a reason to interact with someone, they were professional with me. Almost no one seemed to be disgusted or offended. After they soak in my appearance, I think they only react to my personality afterward.
People will say "Hi" in response to me. Seldom (or never) will the general public initiate a greeting. Twice did someone approach me in a store for help because I was wearing a lanyard. (It was holding my keys and money -- no pockets or purse.) My skirt did not keep them away.
I have never had any negative reaction on this website. I have only had people on this forum say they do not understand why I would dress up without presenting female. That is a decent response.

Moral of the story:
None.

What a fascinating thread. Over time I have observed an increased acceptance of gay men and lesbians, to the point that in my community they are (almost) fully accepted with no issues or second looks. Now the attention is on transgender people (which to most of the general public means people whose body does not match their actual gender and are usually somewhere in the process of transitioning). TG folks may be thought of as somewhat unusual, but are generally accepted and given some level of respect. Genderqueer or nonconforming people are just beginning to be recongnized- many don't yet realize that we exist. I think that many people think that the T (trans) in GLBTQ refers only to those who are transitioning, not aware that many of us are quite content as we are.

Personally, I fit somewhere in the genderqueer spectrum. I don't understand my own preferences and motivations, so don't expect anyone else to do so. I consider myself male, have male body parts and features, though my hips are fairly wide for a man. I'm not much of a sports fan and find that in mixed groups which tend to separate by gender I find the women's conversations more interesting that the men's. I usually wear a mix of clothing- women's underneath and outerwear often women's but not obviously so. I love wearing skirts and think that a good fitting skirt can be more flattering to my body type than many pants, but rarely will wear a skirt outside the house. I wear a bra with moderately sized forms as often as possible and will wear them in public more often than I will wear a skirt, though not around friends or acquaintances. I have briefly experimented with wigs, makeup, etc and not found them to be something I want to use. I guess that I would fit in the man in a skirt category, but in my case is more often man in a bra. (I know it doesn't make sense, but there it is).

It seems to me that those of us who present as male, but with some traditionally female attributes, are the last frontier of general public acceptance and understanding, even among some CD'ers. In some ways it seems to me to be more honest to present as male, wearing some female clothing, than to go all the way and still not be fooling anyone, but I respect anyone's right to dress and present as they choose.

I'm reminded of the kinds of acceptance that Bi people used to (still?) get from full-on gay folks.

Essentially: "Make up your mind!"

I'm hearing similar echoes here from some folks. Not that anyone is trying to be mean, it seems to me like its a genuine lack of understanding.

I socialize better with women than with men. I don't like team sports. I always wear jewelry and I swap it around all the time. I'm the cook. I'm the manners-nanny with my kids. I'm the one who selects the drapes and hangs the pictures. Most 'regular guys' and I have very little in common.

I think/feel differently than someone who has GD. I don't feel 'trapped' in the wrong body per se. Both male & female are present to an extent and I try to express that. If you really are a girl in a guys body, its a different experience for you.

- MM