How can we change our view in society

I agree that change takes change, but I also think the three million other available crossdressing sites and their gazillion members who mostly dress for intimate reasons are not really interested in public perception. The public are also not interested in their private proclivities.

Personally, I think y'all need to figure out who you're representing before starting this cause, because if ALL crossdressers literally walked out of their closets as suggested here, you might find public perception worsens. While the members on this forum all appear on similiar paths, I wonder about your commonality with the other sites. Are you really a group with a common cause, or a very diverse collection of people who just happen to wear women's clothing?

Socialization is a powerful thing. Hell, if I wasn't CD it's a dammed good chance I'd be prejudice against it. Some days I might still even be prejudiced towards it even though I am it.
It's all boiled down to perception. I dunno, few times I've been out have all been positive for the most part. Sometimes I feel like the world is moving forward but I'm trapped by my own backwards thinking. I think things really are starting to shift. We may not get to a point of total acceptance but who does? Everything you do is evil to somebody.

So keep ya head up. If you're closeted it's probably not worth it. If it is then do what you gotta do. Sometimes I think we feel society is this big bad wolf waiting to devour us when in reality things are improving.

Here's another interesting discussion where I think most of us are in violent agreement... or maybe not... ;) I think everyone has made some good points throughout (with the exception of the 'coward' comment - I agree with you Nicole, but then a bit of name calling doesn't really hurt us 'closeted-for-our-own-personal-and-valid-reasons' types, does it? :tongueout )

I am struggling a little with what type of acceptance the OP is after? As I think Jen@Home was the first to state here (and has before) society is already 'accepting' to some extent of CDing - probably more in the context of TG and TS folk that shift towards a 24/7 (or at least, high percentage) presentation. Acceptance of this as a 'lifestyle' confuses me a bit... For me that tends to drive muggles understanding towards the fetish end of things because 'lifestyle' to me implies choice - much as the OP also chooses to present as other personas in different supportive environments - but I don't believe that is true of most of the forum participants here, who for me, are resident somewhere on the TG curve and this expression is a need not an option, or the few participative fetish CDers here (there are many, MANY more on other sites) for whom this is more of a choice, rather than something deeper. And the fetish end of anything will always likely struggle with mainstream acceptance because of the sexual connotations - however wrong that may be.

Having widespread acceptance probably also brings its own issues, particularly with our strong associations with the LGB community. It's been said before, but other than probably having proportionately more of those with a 'flexible' sexual orientation among us, our problems are not the same as the LGB community faces in normal life. I do think it's a good idea that we are seen as falling under the 'rainbow' umbrella, but the issue it brings immediately is that muggles assume mtf CDers are gay or bi - which is demonstrably untrue. If you look at what acceptance means IRL for LGB folk, one aspect is the legislation that protects them against overt discrimination and the ongoing education programmes that seek to encourage full understanding that an LGB orientation is not abnormal behaviour: just different. It doesn't guarantee acceptance in people's minds. I know that most of my career I have worked in large corporates that may maintain a non-discrimination policy but that does not stop covert discrimination happening. I have never found it surprising that few people I have worked with have admitted overtly to being LGB... because it is clearly better to be clandestine if you can (see how long it took Tim Cook to declare his orientation..???) from a personal perspective.

You only need to look at ethnic minorities or to some extent the public LGB community to see what happens when you come out. Muggle world tends to drive minorities to ghettoism - either in real terms or virtual ones. Non-discrimination legislation may protect your existing job if you decide to wear heels to work, but it will assuredly not help you progress if the folk determining your career progression are clandestinely bigoted. I'm not saying this is right - but this is the way the world works. I don't see how just 'getting out and owning it' is actually really doing anything beneficial for all of us, I really don't.

Besides - as has been said before - the ones who will be noticed more will be those who are less blendable because either: they choose not to be (eg. the 'ND' or Neck-Down CDer) or nature just doesn't help them much. This is not to be unkind, but I'm afraid they are also likely to be the ones to receive more ridicule and negative comments, simply because they are more noticeable. I don't see how it helps unless all of the passable ones are going to actively engage with Joe Public after fooling them and say: "Here I am - you didn't read me until I opened my trap..." :eek: And that sort of has some negatives about it too...

I'm sorry - I'm struggling with the whole structure and agenda and objective of mainstream acceptance right now...

:rant:

Katey x

People in the closet, don't need or want the public opinion, so why would they want to come out and change it?
CD prostitutes want it to be known which street corner they work
I don't want CDers with wild sexual fetishes (or anyone else with sexual fetishes) in the local mall looking for acceptance

Me, I just want to be a normal girl, do normal girl things, talk to other humans, have coffee with them.
I would like girls like me to be "out" and live normally along side other normal GGs.
Personally I would prefer all the "other" Cders to stay away from the public.
Off now to have my cake and eat it :)

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Originally Posted by Rachelakld

I would like girls like me to be "out" and live normally along side other normal GGs.

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That's a really good point. While this issue doesn't affect my H personally as he'd be one of the private sexual dressers stepping out and frightening the general public, lol, but if you're goal is to just be 'one of the GG's', how does it help anyone to be seen as a crossdresser? That would mean identifying with one group at the expense of another - I'm pretty sure the public would struggle to accept both.

I also think you'd be surprised how many crossdressers wouldn't actually want a public identity. Fulltime dressing or even part time public dressing is statistically still rare (Vernon Coleman had some recent stats on this) and I don't think it's because society won't allow it either, as Jennifer pointed out most Western societies have general tolerance/indifference now. I just think most dont need more than their closets, and if they do, they find their way to this forum and figure it out individually.

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Originally Posted by Carly CD

I wonder how we can shift our lifestyle away from the fetish lifestyle and drag queens and into a more accepted lifestyle.

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Do most people see it as a fetish and if so, what is their definition of fetish? I think that most people who see a CDer dressed in regular women's clothes shopping at a mall do not get the impression this is a sexual thing? It would be different if they saw a CDer wearing a platinum blonde wig, boobs too big for his body, fish-nets, tight leather mini and the shoes to match, but very few really go out looking like that outside of TG safe venues.

I think what puzzles people, and what they might disapprove of is the idea that a man would want to be feminine if it isn't obviously a costume at a venue where people are expected to wear costumes. It seems so far out of the norm for most people that it is viewed upon with suspicion. Lori in post 3 and others describe it well. Maybe these people ask themselves if the CDer is all there, and what else might be weird, unsettling, and even dangerous about him that isn't visible.

People mistrust what is outside the norm.

Even if every single CDer were to be out and proud, the only way to make it more accepted would be to have a significant percentage of the male population want to go out looking like a girl because they feel comfortable that way. Non-fetish CDers would actually have to BE the statistical norm and this isn't going to happen. Someone mentioned women wearing pants. It only became normal because there were a great deal more than 3%-5% of potential women who might enjoy wearing pants, in fact 100% of women eventually wore them.

BUT, the upside is that we do live in a live-and-let-live, mind-your-own-business world, meaning that if CDers stay away from dark alleys and countries that have strict religious rule, most people have the sense to keep their opinions to themselves. We (my SO and I) can go out without fearing for our physical safety and without being publicly berated.

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Originally Posted by JayeLefaye

....For instance, did you know that in Minnesota, it is illegal to tease skunks?

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LOL. Oddly enough, I can understand why. A great many people stand to be skunked when just one person does the teasing.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Such a short post, but so much wrong with it.
1) not every closet crossdresser is a coward. Many would have much to lose by coming out, whether that's fair or not.
2) happily closeted crossdressers have no reason to come out. Nothing to gain, much to lose. Especially those who dress for sexual reasons, personal and private, and most everybody wants others to keep their sexual activities personal and private.
3) you want others to come out of their closets for your benefit, not theirs.
4) you use "we", as if crossdressers are all the same. We're not, we're a very diverse bunch.

Let me personalize it. My boss is openly opposed to all who aren't all male or all female in every way, and lumps them all as "queer". I serve at his pleasure, no union rules or contracts to protect my job. If I came out as a crossdresser, I KNOW I would lose my job. I'm living my crossdressing life in the closet to protect my job. Sorry, but I won't be a martyr for your cause.
I like to make up and dress over-the-top, and there is a sexual element to my crossdressing. Do you really want me out there, representing "our" community?

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That is well put from my point of view.
1. I would have more to lose than gain, so why do anything more than I am doing. As in incouraging people to love and accept one another.
2. As I have said to others, I don't care if you have mirrors on your ceiling and a trapeze in your bedroom, I just don't want to hear about it. Hence I don't think that others are interested in the color or type of underwear I wear.
3. If I could wear a shirt (guys), panties, skirt, and pantyhoses with comfortable shoes and not get weird looks while looking like a guy, I would think about coming out of the closet, but that ain't happening soon.
4. We are an eclectic group and if we can't accept one another, then how can we expect other to accept us.

Gillian, Sad but true, Where there are people, there will be disagreeing and arguing, including in this community. We fight among ourselves, over a lot of issues, just like the general public. Group think is only surface.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Such a short post, but so much wrong with it.
1) not every closet crossdresser is a coward. Many would have much to lose by coming out, whether that's fair or not.


2) happily closeted crossdressers have no reason to come out. Nothing to gain, much to lose. Especially those who dress for sexual reasons, personal and private, and most everybody wants others to keep their sexual activities personal and private.


3) you want others to come out of their closets for your benefit, not theirs.


4) you use "we", as if crossdressers are all the same. We're not, we're a very diverse bunch.

Let me personalize it. My boss is openly opposed to all who aren't all male or all female in every way, and lumps them all as "queer". I serve at his pleasure, no union rules or contracts to protect my job. If I came out as a crossdresser, I KNOW I would lose my job. I'm living my crossdressing life in the closet to protect my job. Sorry, but I won't be a martyr for your cause.
I like to make up and dress over-the-top, and there is a sexual element to my crossdressing. Do you really want me out there, representing "our" community?

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#1) I'm not saying to go out and loose your career over coming out of the closet not at all. There are other ways to support the cause for the world to see us in a better way. In order for society to accept us better then we need representation and that can also be helping out behind the scenes in many different ways.

#2) This is fine if you only have sexual fantasies and IF your partner knows about it. Its the folks that do it for only sexual pleasure but hide it from their partners with that secret stash of clothes and wigs in the garage that I have no respect for.

#3) No that's not right I'm out already out in public places and I take my lumps and bumps as it is but if we want to change the way the world views us then yes the more people that come out the better. Hiding does make us look creepy to the world and to our partners if they find out by accident.
If someone doesn't want to come out of the closet that's just fine but there sure is a lot of whining, moaning and bitching threads on the forum that say, "I wish I could do this or that but I just can't for whatever reason such as society doesn't accept us or my wife doesn't accept it." If anybody wants to make a difference in society then go out and find a way to support the cause or if they choose not to then don't complain that society isn't moving forward and that you can't do something you wished you could do.

I'm not asking you to loose your job by coming out to the folks you work with. I am curious though it says your in the closet to protect your job but if you didn't live with that hanging over your head would you be out? Are you going to go out in your retirement years?
Do I really want you out there representing us?
If your a decent person and want to dress over the top and you come to social functions, clubs or to certain social events then sure why not? I do it quite a bit actually but only in the right venues not out to the grocery store. If someone is going to be like that goofball that boarded the commercial airliner a few years ago wearing skimpy lingerie then no we don't need that kind of bad exposure.
If you were out with your boss and he saw me and said he something like there's another faggot in our society would you say anything, try to educate him a little bit without loosing your job or just agree with him? If you say you would try to say something to him then even that's helping.

Let me sum it up and say the thread is How can we change our view in society? My perception is society will not come to us, we have to find a way to go to them and change their views anyway we can just like the way our gay friends have slowly done over the years. Be part of the solution not the problem. If we do nothing then its stupid to think we'll get different results than we have now. Most of the time people hate something they don't know. The more folks I meet out there have said to me I'm glad there are people like you out there this country needs to be diverse. And I do find that certain kinds of hiding equates to cowardice. I can and have lumped myself under that umbrella at times too during this journey.

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Originally Posted by Katey888

I'm sorry - I'm struggling with the whole structure and agenda and objective of mainstream acceptance right now...

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Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to hide this from:
- your parents while growing up
- your employer
- your spouse?

Even if you NEVER go out in public, wouldn't it be worth something to you to feel no shame or stigma?

Wouldn't it be nice if you could talk to potential partners about this, and have a reasonable expectation that they wouldn't find such an idea so weird that they never consider dating you, even if they would actually get along fine with you?

Wouldn't it be nice if potential partners didn't feel that a relationship with you required THEM to either:
- be closeted as well about your CDing
- come out

A lot of you on this forum seem pretty miserable and desperate to me. Do you really think that lives in a world that accepted you, where you could be open about who you are, would be worse than the lives you lead now?

Unfortunately, if you want acceptance, you will have to make a stand for it.

But yeah, other than an open, free, and authentic life - this is a totally useless idea. Forget I said anything!

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Originally Posted by Launa

ITS ALL ABOUT LEAVING THE CLOSET!!!

Get out there and live as a part of society. Be seen and then we'll eventually be accepted in. Keep being cowards and hiding in the fringes then we'll never be accepted.

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Leave the closet? But it's where all my pretty lingerie is! My preciousssssssssssss lingerie. (/gollum)

Sorry. I fight name calling with satire. It's my way.

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Originally Posted by PaulaQ

A lot of you on this forum seem pretty miserable and desperate to me.

Unfortunately, if you want acceptance, you will have to make a stand for it.

But yeah, other than an open, free, and authentic life - this is a totally useless idea. Forget I said anything!

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Bingo, if you want change then get the balls to make a stand without necessarily destroying your life you have already created for yourself. As I said in my last post our gay friends did it over time and still have a long way to go but they are indeed moving in a forward direction.

Somehow, this thread had morphed from "change the view of society" to "outing yourself for a cause."

Change can happen, but it will be one person at a time. That happens by having positive experiences with the normals, not marching in the street. There are no "stands" to make here. Go out, dress appropriately, act appropriately, chat with a normal, go home. I have see this in action and it works. Now, that stated, I will be long the way of the dodo before cross dressing is "accepted" but that's ok. You CAN get out and you CAN interact with the normals. Nothing more is needed.

:yt: :notworthy:

Testify!

Well...as I have said..."Be The Change"...Yes, I'm very new to this cross-dressing phenomenon...and I am enjoying it immensely...I have never, in my entire Life, have laughed like I have over the past 23~ days. I must enjoy it...'cause I'm absorbing all this useful information...and applying it! Now, I talk a big game; however, the rubber has yet to hit the road...with respect to Mia's Great Adventures.

k' so I visited my neighbour's last night, for coffee...as Mia! I had already told Scott (who most likely would have told his wife?)...they are in their 60's...I mind their two dogs (I'm their Uncle ;)), once for three weeks...so, we are tight friends...both said that I would most-likely pass (I went as 'Mia in White'...my profile pic)); however, work must be done on voice & gestures (...make-up as well)...so then we started to discuss where I could pick up these skills...well, RIGHT BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

JOIN A THEATRE GROUP! I have sent off an email to a local theatre to volunteer as 'Mia'...to perform Shakespearean plays (young boys used to play the female parts, because women were not allowed to act in those days...). Salvation: my reason for why I do it, and practice, practice, practice...PERFECT!

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k' I must get my ears pierced and business cards printed...

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the bad news is I cannot get my ears done today...too much snow! Business cards can be done over the telephone...Oh, and the theatre has graciously and most enthusiastically accepted my proposal. ;) I can quite rightly promote the theatre, in my fashion (Uhm...CDing!), while out in public...hahaha...this is truly too much! I WIN!

I also get: voice training, make-up training, opportunity to socialize, acting lessons, etc.

The only Way to change society's image of any 'Fringe Element'...is to mingle and exchange views in a civilized and intelligent environment...the more exposure that mainstream has with a 'FE'...the more they become accustomed to the occurrence. We've lost the internet battle...them panty wearin', hairy-a$$ed princess' are fully and completed represented...our cause must be taken to the streets in the daylight...not in the dark over the net..."Pick Your Battles"..."The Art of War", Sun Tzu

I'm feelin'... "Ride of the Valkyries", Wagner

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

There are no "stands" to make here.

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I'm going to stand. This Friday afternoon I am going to get ready then stand up from the make up chair, walk out the door and head for the mall. After that I might take in a art performance. I will meet some folks along the way and I'm sure it will be enjoyable.

Some of us see a "stand". We see a stand because we don't have a choice. We don't want to be treated as less than just because we are TG. So yes there are stands to be made. And that goes directly to the OP of what can we do? I have come to the opinion that there is no way to change the minds of CDs. If they want out, they go out. If they want to stay closeted, they stay closeted. But those who go out are the ones who see how change is needed. They are the ones who see discrimination or hate or having someone walk a wide path around you out of fear.

The TSs live this life. I have to be seen and thus I want to be heard. But I can only "educate" people who want education. Which severely limits the message. I am one. If there were many then the message would grow and this would be a minor point. I am not so naive as to believe we will be accepted in a broad sense any time soon. It won't be in my lifetime even. With the current situation of fear I doubt it will be in the next generation but hopefully they are more open to it now. Which will translate to their children being more open.

Current events here in the US drive home that even though we have more tolerant people in general, there will always a group who isn't. Which ever group is the loudest will get the most attention (watch the news and see which side is right now the "bad guys" even though most are not bad). We need role models. In my small way I hope that I am one of those. I don't present as "over the top". I look like a business woman at work and a middle aged "cougar" at night. When someone sees me in a store, they see a tall well dressed woman and 90% move along. So I am in a small way as I said trying to blaze a trail. Not just for the TSs. Trust us we are tough witches who have learned to have thick skin. But for the people who follow who are gender blended or "just CDs".

Yes this has morphed into a "come out come out wherever you are" thread because that is the the number ONE way to change perception. And thus I have not seen any resolution from the closeted people here on gaining acceptance in the world. I want you to tell me how you would do it. Any idea can be helpful. If it can be done behind the scenes...then tell us so we can all help.

This isn't "Us vs Them" it is US helping US. If you don't want to wave the flag, fine. When we gain some equality you are more than welcome to tag along. There is a well used quote about not hiding your light. I and many more are shining that light. But really, all sarcasm aside, help us. Tell us how you think you can get the message out. In truth, just being here is a good start. It shows that even though 90% of the TG sites are sex sites, there are many TGs who are not using it for sexual purposes. (Really unfair to bring that up because by the same analogy every pizza delivery boy or big breasted woman or gay man would be in the same boat as the TG community and we know that isn't true...right?). So how, from the safety of your house and your sphere, can you change the stereotypes?

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

.... So how, from the safety of your house and your sphere, can you change the stereotypes?

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My premise is the same. One person at a time. One positive interaction after another. Marching on the street will not work. Awareness days will not work. We go out, act normal, Interact with the normals and things will change. There is no acceleration I can imagine.

This latter debate was the reason for my attempt at devilish advocacy earlier:

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I'm struggling with the whole structure and agenda and objective of mainstream acceptance right now...

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Paula Q gave some good answers to that as to what constitutes practical objectives - AND noted that acceptance would require something of a collective approach... A collective 'stand', if you will...

Lori - your points about equality echo this but what does that mean in real, practical terms? Does it mean legislation? For the US does that mean at the federal level (if that was possible)? For Europe it would be at EU level but still may not be binding on member states. If it means (more) legislation, then what and how? I can see how it might work for TS but for TG? Well, we're back to our categories aren't we... ;) And coming out en masse may be a more powerful message than as individuals but the majority still need to agree and be consistent about what that message is! I'm sure some of the events and conventions that take place in the US are moving that agenda forward, which I think is a Good Thing - I hope more folk feel able to get involved in those events... I am beginning to feel the need to look for similar things here in the UK...

Jen - I think all of those, like you, who go out and just do normal stuff are helping but in a hugely fragmented way. I don't believe the world changes through singular interactions - I may be cynical (Me? :devil:) but I think the reactions are probably more in line with Isha's piece of fieldwork from 6 months ago... People are largely tolerant (a lot of the time because the interaction will be on a commercial server-customer basis, so they have an incentive...) but once they have moved on to the next muggle customer, their memory will just be one of tolerance, which does not equal acceptance. Unfortunately there will also be those who will continue to snicker and ridicule just not in earshot - the rigidly intolerant and unaccepting. Don't let's kid ourselves to the degree of sacrifice that had to be made collectively and by individuals to establish the collective rights and legal status of the LGB community (my respect for them grows the more I learn) - but we need to be clear about what the objective and the agenda is before folk will understand what they are rallying around...

By and large, the TS folk here are forced to be trailblazers... I think they deserve our unreserved support but I think that means more than just going to malls or eating in nice restaurants... It'd be easy for me to say "I'll help! But... I can't coz I'm not in the US..." I want to know how I can, but I'll have to do more to understand activism here in the UK... (OK - resolution for 2015 then... :))

Katey x

Katey, I agree that tolerance is not acceptance but it's close and is a foundation from which one can move. And like the rock becoming sand, it's a matter of time and persistence and it happens.

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

We go out, act normal, Interact with the normals and things will change. There is no acceleration I can imagine.

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Again that may be OK for a CD especially a CD who is closeted. You have all the time in the world. So you can wait for things to change. But someone has to initiate that change. The majority of people have no clue that "we" are treated any different than anyone else. And those that do know about TGs but don't "know" a TG get their information from bad movies and TV. Do you , as a member of the T community, remember seeing or hearing about a TG appointee in the US government? Didn't make the daily news in most markets. The trans judge? The trans astronaut? The Trans actress in the highly rated television series...Ah! heard that did you? Did you know that being trans is still grounds for dishonorable discharge from the military? Now for fun, which branch of the US military is considering allowing trans people to serve? Did this all come about by a few people? No it came about by a large voice. But again, the TSs are the ones who HAVE to live with laws and rules that discriminate. In the black community they tried to blend into society in the 50s and 60s and in some areas that was possible but it took a massive push to get it on a national level.

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Originally Posted by Katey888

Lori - your points about equality echo this but what does that mean in real, practical terms? Does it mean legislation?

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Yes it will because you cannot trust people do do this on their own. Saying "Hey guys...please let the T's get jobs and use public facilities" won't hack it. You are in Europe. Now I don't know the protection laws in the EU but here in the good Ol USA there are states that don't give any protection to trans people. There are states that give a little. So traveling from..say Colorado to Nebraska (neighbors) I go from being protected to being a target.

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For the US does that mean at the federal level (if that was possible)?

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Yes and yes it is possible. They passed the Equal Rights amendment 50 years ago that made it a federal crime to discriminate on many levels. However, let me add that it was only a few years ago that the last state allowed interracial marriage. The federal government can put protections in place for at the very least anything that is associated with the federal government (like contracts or hiring)

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I can see how it might work for TS but for TG?

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and why not? Why would there have to be a delineation? They didn't pass laws for certain ethnic groups but not others.

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but the majority still need to agree and be consistent about what that message is!

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and therein lies the rub as some famous Brit said once. You see it here when some say "Not me I am not a _____" So it dilutes the power. Or if they say "Hey that doesn't effect me because I'm a guy" (who still have privilege here in the US even if you don't believe it). The civil rights movement swelled because it had support from a broad base of people. Sexual rights and protections weren't just put in place by women (even if they are 52% of the population). Here I see the same sort of thing. So many will scream from the rooftops "I am NOT part of the LGBT community" But you don't HAVE to be, you can still stand up for what is right. Just because your ox isn't gored doesn't mean you can't protect someone else's.

Quoting another great person "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." Because, as you see, when you start eroding one person's rights, it isn't hard to chip away at others.

Now having stood on the stump, let me say that even a little help is better than none at all. If you want your SO to accept you as you are, you have to do things to prove you are deserving. So if we could get rid of the stigma of being marginalized and ostracized, your SO and family and children and boss would be more likely to see you as a human.

Great post, Lori. As a GG, obviously all this doesn't affect me as an individual but I'd be happy to wave a picket sign in support.

Maybe that's the answer. Maybe crossdressers, be they TG or sexual or casual or hidden or whatever, don't have to stand in their heels to help. Maybe just being a voice of support is where change will come. After all, if a large group of men (closeted CDers are a significant number) can openly support TG/TS rights then that's a pretty good start. The most memorable LGB marches that I remember involved the families.

I think pushing crossdressers out of the closet is not the answer as many are happy there. But asking them to stand up as PEOPLE and support your rights is a fair request. I'll help! :)

Luna...hold up my lil' Canadian snicker doodle...the revolution has been postponed...due to weather...snow storm! LMAO

WOW...now, this is communication! Lorileah...I could not agree more (with your first post...still 'digesting' your last...you have much to say!) Sign me up for any discussions on this matter...if you don't mind?

Katey...I very much like the 'Collective Stand' idea...we will need to organize.
You had mentioned that the TS have been taking the lead on this charge...is it not our turn to pick up the standard? Their 'social argument' is much more difficult than ours...we just want/like to wear dresses. We should be taking the lead on this...and helping the TSs

TX...Tinkerbell (hugs!!!)

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Lorileah...Canadian's, and our laws...are respective of the value of the 'individual'...for the most part.

To throw some slogans into your rant ;):
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools
Martin Luther King Jr...and I can pull more...

"MLK" was just too much...

I agree with PaulaQ, Lorileah, Katey888, and Tinkerbell on a few things. I would like to add some more.

1. We need to show that we are decent human beings. Like Paula said, show them that we are men or women or any other gender identity who does their job, has a family, goes to church, and participates in any other constructive aspect of our society.

2. We need to always be on our best behavior. Be friendly, polite, offer to help people in need, donate to charity, participate in charitable behaviors or organizations, don't engage in exhibitionism, and always behave like a lady when using the ladies room. This also means always sit down when you use the ladies room.

3. A voice is nice, but a voice alone won't help if people don't actually have to see it in real life and gain practice in their accepting and understanding of us. I actually think a voice combined with the action of living openly is what is needed.

4. This applies to everyone who is on the transgender spectrum. This includes CDers, TS, genderqueer, gender fluid, androgynous, bigender, dualgender, non-gender, all gender, and any other identity or expression out there. This is why I said men or women or any other gender identity earlier.

Michelle...This is the start of a 'code of conduct'...we are jumping the gun, a lil'; but continue...we would also require a mission statement.

Well...I'm out...it's official (the card is not for advertising purposes on this site (used only as an example)...also no contact info {cell, email} on my "FAN" cards). My 'Business' version has the contact info on the back

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