Has Jenner gone too far?

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Originally Posted by Jennifer0874

Caitlyn's message last night seemed very important. She made it clear it wasn't only about her and made sure to focus on the most vulnerable and what they are going through.

I'm tired of the negativity thrown Jenner's way. I thought the Diane Sawyer interview was excellent and really gave those who didn't understand an idea of what transsexuals go through.

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What she said! I heard the speech this morning. Prior to that, I had reserved my judgment of Caitlyn, but it is clear that she wants to use her fame to help the cause. She thanked the TG pioneers that came before her, and brought light to the alarming rates of TG suicide and murder. She is willing to take the jokes, insults, and looks of disgust, in the hope that one day TG kids won't have to. She certainly has more courage than I do. I say, "Brava, Caitlyn, Brava!"

I agree that her visibility is giving the cause a well deserved boost and it is causing much more conversation than ever before. Celebrity status obviously has garnered much press and most of it good. I dare say none of us would have had the effect she is having.

That being said I think the award was a spotlight grab by ESPN. There were many other candidates that were equally deserving if not more so.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

but I don't think her courage matches what it takes to fight a war in a foreign country or even be a police officer or firefighter in this country.

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I don't think the situations are remotely comparable. Each requires a different sort of courage and each should be celebrated.

I bet plenty of war vets would not have the courage to do what transitioning people do and vice-versa.

has anyone else heard the story that came out this a.m. saying that she essentially forced her way into getting the award last night? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...interview.html im not really familiar with this site/mag i hope this is not true though it would really take away from all the positive things

Being a public figure, Jenner could either try to stay hidden and be exploited by the press and the tabloids, or come out and control the situation on her terms. She made the correct choice, both for her and for our community. This is how she makes her living and I don't begrudge her the ability to do so.

As far as pushing her way into the award, the fact remains that ESPN had a lot more to gain from it than Jenner and the decision about the award was made after the interview. IMO, this rumor is sour grapes from the tabloid press who are trying to regain the initiative. The previous year award went to Michael Sam, an openly gay American football player who tried out unsuccessfully for an NFL team. Jenner is a highly-regarded Olympic champion. There is no question of the appropriateness of the award.

Courage is the act of overcoming fear and taking action in spite of fear. Courage comes in many variations and form.
One's definition of a hero will vary from individual to individual. One's hero may not be my hero. It's absolutely mind boggling the hate and condensending opinions of the closeted and "tranny elite". If her journey inspires 1 young adult that is struggling. And that inspiration allows that young adult to be who they are and thrive in life. Then her journey and struggle has value.

Yes she has fame and money. Yes her money allowed procedures to physically alter herself to more closely align who she is. But make no mistake. The emotional toll is great and no less easy than another transitioner. I would say even much harder as she is a public figure and any disparaging remarks are public fodder.
It's too bad if her or any of our transitions doesn't meet the approval of others. We don't transition for others. We transition for ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Maria 60

I do have respect for Bruce only because when he received the award I didn't hear I or me. Instead I heard him talk about others and to pass a massage about others accepting us. Which is far away still, but I have to disagree with you, maybe he didn't deserve the award but he didn't do anything wrong to our community. He's trying to do something that no one has ever done, stand up and defend us, that must have taken a lot of courage to do what he is doing, especially being in the cameras eye all the time.

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Whats that all about? Your like saying you support her and what she is doing but saying it in the most disrespectful and mean way that you can? Talk about how far away acceptance is!!

I wish I could call Caitlyn and thank her!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by natalie_cheryl

has anyone else heard the story that came out this a.m. saying that she essentially forced her way into getting the award last night? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...interview.html im not really familiar with this site/mag i hope this is not true though it would really take away from all the positive things

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The Daily Mail (or Daily Fail as it is called) is a right wing newspaper that is hardly trans friendly. This link sums them up nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

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Originally Posted by natalie_cheryl

has anyone else heard the story that came out this a.m. saying that she essentially forced her way into getting the award last night? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...interview.html

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I saw that, but you'll note that it says "Caitlyn Jenner's Reps Demanded..." in other words, it was negotiated at the agent level. That's the agent's job and more power to them. :) It doesn't take away anything from her accomplishments nor from her awesome speech.

Thank you Melissa and Suzanne!!! Very well said.

Caitlyn's coming out has made us more visible to the world. People now know what being transgender is all about, and are aware that we exist and that we are real human beings. Plenty of people who knew nothing about us are were unaccepting towards us have become accepting of us. I even heard, and I wish I could find the survey to back this up, that the percentage of people that accept us has gone from less than a quarter of the population to two thirds of the population. This is everybody accept the extreme right wing religious fundamentalists, TERFS, and some hard core atheists/scientific minds like my father.

Thank you Melissa for pointing out that Caitlyn waited until 65 to transition. She suffered for 65 long years of her life before finally coming out. Many of us here transitioned sooner, yet we all waited a long time. I waited 34 long years of my life to finally begin transition. Some of us waited 20 long years, 42 long years, 50 long years, 58 long years, 73 long years, 28 long years. And those are very, very, very LONG years of suffering with GD. Caitlyn suffered for 65 of those LONG years. Just because she had all the money and best resources in the world didn't stop her from suffering with the same GD that many of us here suffered with. It didn't give her the courage to transition younger. It didn't spare her from losing 65 years of her life.

Thank you Suzanne for mentioning male privilege. I do notice that it tends to be people who don't have male privilege, either cis-women who never had it, or transwomen who gave it up, who tend to be the activists. There are plenty of people with male privilege who simply don't want to fight, and why would they, because being a cis-gender heterosexual white male comes with all the privileges you could ever have in this world - they have nothing to fight for.

I would like to give a special thanks to two transgender activists, one who is an active member of this forum. Caitlyn Jenner, and PaulaQ. Thank you both for the wonderful work you have done for the trans community. Caitlyn for coming out, being yourself, and making people aware that we exist, and with all the media scrutiny. Paula thank you for all the hard work you have done on this forum for helping people struggling with serious gender issues to get the courage to accept themselves and to transition, for all the work you have done for the CDers on this forum, and for the work you have done in Texas. Both have given up their male privilege and their cis-gender hetero-normative privilege.

There is little to add to this discussion, except go on record (for what little that is worth) that I support CJ and feel like she is doing us all a great service!

I agree totally with you Isabella! She has let all of us to be seen in a much better light. Best thing ever, even if she is making some money from, she is advancing our cause. :)

Rumor has it that they had to give that award in order for Diane Sawyer to get that interview and broadcast it on ABC. Money talks Bull Sh*t walks.

Come on Sharon. That's just rumor mongering.

Exploitation?

I don't know it it was already mentioned but, let's all keep in mind that Cait has a new "reality" show to debut soon called, "I Am Cait" .
Like most all so-called reality shows, I wounder how much will be staged.

Also, as I understand it, her show is from the producers of the Kardashians .
So, will the circus continue?
Can a media circus really promote "our cause" if she becomes some kind of a freakish realty show character to the general public?

Sure we understand and support her but, what about the general public?
As it is, they have a hard time separating someone like Rue Paul from a TS

Let's do a reality check. Would Jenner, who has a honest-to-God Olympic gold medal, demand a minor award from a cable channel in order to have a prime-time interview with one of the most-respected people in network television? Not likely!

The reason she went with ABC is obvious. Bruce did a lot of work with ABC in the past so it is logical for Jenner to work with people that are known. The idea of a quid pro quo is ridiculous.

I pretty much disagree with everything that you said.

She deserves the award. She's been through plenty of crap in the media for a long time leading up to coming out. She was the target of tons of rude comments. Coming out under the microscope as a celebrity takes a ton of bravery.

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Originally Posted by PaulaQ

Actually, the willingness of some to keep quiet and not say anything that might make cisgender folks uncomfortable is what makes us all look bad.

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Amen!

There seems to be some truth to it......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...interview.html

Keep in mind that ABC and ESPN are both owned by Disney. So, it was a win-win situation for them in the end .

You do realize that the Daily Mail is reporting on a story that appeared on an online gossip site, and that the Daily Mail itself is the British version of the National Enquirer with a bit of a Fox Network bent? Not exactly a reliable source!

If she continues to create this level of awareness and oppertunity for education about us then the answer is yes wether some percieve it as a media circus or not. She has already promoted our cause to unprecidented levels. Michelle789 I agree with alot of what you say and I definately ackowledge that male privilege exists and can be a huge issue, however there are people with male privilege who do stand up and fight, Isha is a shining example of this. The fact that many of us who have the ability to hide feel that we need to utilize this ability to hide WHO WE ARE shows just how much we do have to fight for. I greatly respect every ts who is out to the world and cant turn around and retreat but I also respect those who can but choose not to. And also those of us who take a step at a time and come out and create awareness to individuals also make a difference, we all have the ability to play a role. I give praise to all of our couragous leaders including Caitlyn, PaulaQ, and Isha regardless of where you sit on the spectrum.

The male voice that Jenner is using, surprised me a bit. I did not hear any attempt to use a ladyish voice! Gives me hope! Because i can't make a decent lady voice, either.

This whole argument I hear over social media about CJ' award has brought out so many people I know and like as huge homophobes and bigots, its a sad day.
The "courage" thing has people tearing each other apart both straight and trans Y'all need to stop being so petty.
Had a friend today talking about this CJ stuff and the courage thing and he said putting on a bra and skirt, carrying a purse isn't courage.
I asked him very bluntly lets see how much courage you have go put on a skirt and a bra and email me the pic.
He said no way man to which I said you ain't man enough is that what you are saying?
Boy he got PISSED.
I was waiting for him to counter back to which I would have said yeah no big deal I've done it before then see what happened. He just glared at me like what just happened.
He was such a prick today.
But go CJ either way I'm just tired of all the anti CJ crap from the trans community.

I love how all of these :edit: closet queens are so convinced that it doesn't take courage to come out and announce to the world that you've been living a lie for your whole life.

Oh sure, she's rich, but so what? I betcha there are plenty of closeted people on this forum who have more than enough money to handle a transition. Money does not give you the kind of courage you need to come out as transgender to the whole damn world. All of these CD's that are complaining would report me to the mods immediately if I said anything as remotely mean to them as Caitlyn sees every single day on the the news!

How many here would sign up for the vitriol she gets blasted with on social media? I'm thinking not very many because I see a lot of hurt feelings around here cuz of all the 'mean' TS girls and we're all kittens compared to the people out there.

This is why I give the closet cases such a hard time. Because what they lack in perspective is more than made up for in hubris.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

You do realize that the Daily Mail is reporting on a story that appeared on an online gossip site, and that the Daily Mail itself is the British version of the National Enquirer with a bit of a Fox Network bent? Not exactly a reliable source!

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It's more than the DM.
https://www.google.com/search?newwin...KEwi7yZCuiOHGA


Cait is obviously very media savvy but, of course it still remains to be seen it this "scandal" is true or not.