Trying to understand behavior

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

What I get out of this is that Kelly's BF is saying "Feed me, feed me, feed me, I'm special, I'm misunderstood," and Kelly is knocking herself out trying to feed him and it's never enough, or it's too much, or there's something not right about it.

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Don't you think that will balance out in time? Or have I been such an enabler that it won't unless I start ignoring it and let him do his thing? Phew...I need a vacation.

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Originally Posted by NatashaCD

I applaud you Kelly for making the effort and i do hope your b/f gets over it and comes around and realizes how damn lucky he really is *hugz*

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Thank you Natasha...

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Originally Posted by Kathi Lake

I am a guy that simply likes to dress as fully as possible - mostly for blending.

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Do you mean personality blending? How long did it take you to find that balance.

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Originally Posted by Kathi Lake

My life basically rocks. :)

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How cool is it for anyone to be able to say that?!

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Originally Posted by Christina W

I started a thread awhile ago here's the link it might help you understand My thoughts on our struggle with it.http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=103226 .

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Thanks for the link! I do understand that the equation probably never changes no matter what mode he/she is in..but the difficult thing to wrap my mind around is the alter ego aspect, or the ability to move back and forth between sides until, maybe...I don't know, like Kathi mentioned, you find a place where you're blended. Meanwhile until that happens isn't it all very confusing? Certainly is from this side of things. Thanks again for the great posts and info....

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Originally Posted by Satrana

It is in effect a female puberty that he is going through - it takes time to explore and understand what it all means and to get the initial excitement of new experiences under his belt.

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Wow Satrana...thank you for this post. So, if I understand correctly...essentially, the repressed female personality has to go through a muturing process on it's own since it's been repressed for so long? That sure sounds like a personality split. Does the grown up male side know that he's dealing with an immature female side? Or is it just like a massive adrenaline rush, which is what I am seeing in him and her right now. It looks a bit bipolar. Sounds like a confusing state to be in.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

The fun and escapism of having an alter ego is addictive and many CDs are happy to keep two seperate identities. This is an unhealthy situation and a difficult one to accommodate inside a relationship. You are quite right to demand that this type of split personality is not going to work and you expect him, in due course with your support, to become self-accepting and fuse his femininity into his normal personality. He needs to be just him irregardless of what clothes he wears. He needs to be able to feel feminine without having to always resort to the trigger mechanism of dressing up.

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Is self acceptance all it takes to get there? And if you're happy simply living a part of you out through an alter ego...which is something I'm concerned about..how do I get him past that place into the place where he wants to be integrated? Am I making this more complicated than it is???

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Originally Posted by Satrana

But as others have said you need to be patient, this is going to take a while. Don't fall for the trap of resenting him and his dressing because that will destroy your relationship. It is like dealing with a kid - one minute they make you laugh, the next they make you want to tear your hair out. But kids grow up and so will your SO if you give him the space and support.

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Thanks for that. It certainly would be easy to resent it all as it does seem to be taking over his life right now. But thanks to all of you I think I get it, but it is such a self centered, self absorbed activity (if that's the right word). But I can live thru this if it means finding some balance at some point. But I am not completely sure about how to be supportive and give him space at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

One other thing, his sensitivity about his dressing as being considered as something wrong - you need to reassure him that is not the case, rather it is the split personality that is wrong. His job is to integrate his feelings so that you can have a normal life together with a single person, your job is to accept femininity is normal and healthy in men and not to judge him by expecting masculine stereotypical behavior from him.

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by Satrana

A CD is the same as a tomboy except that isolation and shame forces us into a closeted fantasyland of escapism and using coping mechanisms like a split personality. A tomboy is not weird or unnatural, you may consider yourself one, but tomboys do not follow the contorted path that CDs do. However it does not have to be this way if you are prepared to offer a guiding hand back to reality.

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Well put, thank you. Actually, although I am a very girly girl, I do drive a custom Jeep, study martial arts, do alot of extreme sports where I am often the only girl involved. So I get that. But thank you for expressing that so beautifully.

Kelly,
I've probably taken some liberties with my posts that come across like, "I'm THIS way, so anybody whose THAT way is messed up." I not a counsellor, so the only thing I have to offer is totally based on my own experience. Water them down appropriately for your own situation. I'm not an expert. Now, back to taking more liberties...

Crossdressing, ESPECIALLY with a supportive SO, should be delightful, fun, relaxing, a real high, something that creates a bond between a couple that is beyond that which is achieved under ordinary circumstances. Not just because you like the same clothes. Because of an understanding, an acceptance, an openness, and a trust that breaches the limits of the usual male-female realtionship. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like that describes where y'all are with this.

Again, forgive me, but the picture I get is that of your BF as if he were dealing with some debilitating disease and you as his caretaker.

Excuse the possibly unfortunate referrence, but if his thing was having a drink or several, this might be like him brooding at home waiting for you to bring his booze while you're out ther trying to find the perfect selection/s for him.

A very basic point here. For me, and I think most of us, shopping is my thing. Even in drab, even by myself, I'd rather shop for clothes and shoes than do most anything. Add an accepting wife or girlfriend, and it becomes so fun, exciting, and even therapeutic that it borders on illogical. With a wife or girlfriend AND enfemme and it surpasses illogical! In your case, though, you were running around picking things out for him. I totally don't get that!

When I was married and my wife would bring home something girly for me it was fantastic! But, those were just little special gifts for special/rare occasions. Certainly not things I asked her to do. Shopping together was what did it for me.

Being a crossdresser, transgender, or whatever flavor can lead to lonliness and isolation. I know it doen't HAVE to, but, let's face it, for many of us it does. I've never felt the guilt that many refer to, except when it cost me my marriage. Lonely and isolated, yes. I won't go through my whole biography here, but the best time in my life was when I was with a loving, accepting, encouraging wife who SEEMED to love everything about me, and who wasn't afraid to hold up a blouse in a dept. store and say , "I think this'd look cute on you!", or say she liked the color of my nails. It appears that your BF is missing out on exactly that kind of interaction. I don't get it.

Will all of this settle out in time? I don't know. I could kin of relate to him not being able to argue with you while he was dressed, but the rest of it I have no concept of. I guess that doesn't mean that it's unusual or wrong or whatever, I just can't relate to it. I commend you for trying to understand and dealing with it all on a very high level. We should all be so lucky!

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

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Again, forgive me, but the picture I get is that of your BF as if he were dealing with some debilitating disease and you as his caretaker.

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OMG...I hope I'm not as pathetic as that! What I really think is we're at the weird beginning stage and ya...with perhaps more issues than normal..whatever normal is...but I don't feel like it's a disaterous mess! I do realize that I act like a Jewish mother and feel like I need to do everything for everyone. but in this case my goal/hope is that he becomes comfortable enough with it all to take his own initiative. Like...now he's doing his own make-up and nails now and making some choices that don't involve my input. That's something, isn't it? I swear I'm not a doormat. Maybe just a little too helpful for my own good.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

Excuse the possibly unfortunate referrence, but if his thing was having a drink or several, this might be like him brooding at home waiting for you to bring his booze while you're out ther trying to find the perfect selection/s for him.

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I really am not that pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

A very basic point here. For me, and I think most of us, shopping is my thing. Even in drab, even by myself, I'd rather shop for clothes and shoes than do most anything. Add an accepting wife or girlfriend, and it becomes so fun, exciting, and even therapeutic that it borders on illogical. With a wife or girlfriend AND enfemme and it surpasses illogical! In your case, though, you were running around picking things out for him. I totally don't get that!

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I so hope it gets to that place. Meanwhile, I think I deserve a medal, a trophy, a patch, a gold star and at the very least an a for effort. What do you suggest I do?

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

Being a crossdresser, transgender, or whatever flavor can lead to lonliness and isolation. I know it doen't HAVE to, but, let's face it, for many of us it does. I've never felt the guilt that many refer to, except when it cost me my marriage. Lonely and isolated, yes. I won't go through my whole biography here, but the best time in my life was when I was with a loving, accepting, encouraging wife who SEEMED to love everything about me, and who wasn't afraid to hold up a blouse in a dept. store and say , "I think this'd look cute on you!", or say she liked the color of my nails. It appears that your BF is missing out on exactly that kind of interaction. I don't get it.

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Well...in a perfect world, if there is a perfect world for someone in my situation, when I met him he would have been more like you. Again...I hope we get to that place. Meanwhile, really...what do you think I should be doing. I'm very all or nothing in life and I'm just trying my best to get this and get it all out there. Maybe not in the most ideal way, but I'm trying.

I never thought about you being a doormat. You're someone very much in love, and that's pretty cool.

I do think you deserve a medal!

I don't know what you should do. Hopefully, when all the initial BS dissolves, crossdressing will become a comfortable backdrop for an otherwise fulfilling relationship. I don't know that there's anything you can DO to make that happen or if it'll just (hopefully) evolve. Good luck! My God, you're anything but pathetic. You're a gem! PM me if you'd like.

My goodness! Hi Kelly, you've had quite the experiences with your BF these days haven't you? :-) I'm just catching up here, so don't mind me if a little sounds redundant.

In all seriousness, I note in your last post that your BF has begun to do his own makeup and nails.. this is fantastic! From the perspective of someone (myself) who has only come out of the closet in the past year now, I can tell you it was one of the most confidence boosting moments to be able to look in the mirror and know that there was this beautiful woman staring back at me.. and it was all my own doing!

Going back through your posts, I can see that there is probably a significant amount of fear that he has about really digging inside himself to experience CDing in front of another person. In my own experiences, before I came out to my GF, I was primarily a closet dresser, only showing her face on Halloween here and there (but not so much as to arouse suspicion). I hinted about things like shaving my legs and playing with makeup and clothing with each and every one of my previous GF's and, except for my ex-wife, NONE of them accepted the idea of just teasing hints about it.. so I remained locked away for many years. It really, REALLY is one of the largest internal blows to your self-esteem when no one on this planet, it seems, 'gets you' and wants to let you be yourself without persecution. You have all these 'insane' and 'unusual' thoughts going through your head.. and seeing other TG/TS/CDer folks about ALWAYS made me feel like a two sided coin: Either I was doomed to hide myself in the closet, or I would have to be out, loud and proud! (which the thought of scared me to death)

When I started seeing my current GF, and a string of circumstances came about that I outed myself to her that I liked to dress, as many have read this story, she was, in the instant, accepting, and did some of the very things you've detailed in your messages. You, sweetheart, are a fantastic lady for respecting your BF and giving him the tools and support that he needs to figure out where he wants to 'be' with himself/herself.. Now, as with everything, there are certainly some negative emotions to be had, and I can tell you very clearly that my SO and I have had our share of ups and downs. Only a little while ago (lets say 4 monthsish ago), I could tell you that, when my GF and I fought, if I were dressed at that moment, I shrank away, almost to go and cry in a corner. Arguing destroyed every single drop of confidence it took to be able to sit there, in our apartment together, and be able to just 'be me' and relax. I would slink away, like some outcast, and start shedding my layers of external femininity.. My SO, she saw this, and stopped me, several times, with what can only be considered love an affection and has said so many things....

'Why are you changing?? You look beautiful... I'm not angry with you because of the dressing, don't change.. Why go through this effort if you're just going to strip it all off? If you want to dress like a woman, then you need to start acting like a grown up woman and DEAL with the issue and not run away... doesn't being like this make you comfortable? Why undo everything just to be 'a man' again if being dressed like a man doesn't make you comfortable??' and so on and on....

My biggest concerns are wrapped around when I'm /out/ in the world and at clubs, out shopping, you name it.. Your BF may not ever want to leave the home, but goodness, at least for me, my nerves have been so on edge when I'm out that one wrong conversation sometimes causes my whole ivory tower to collapse and I want to just turn and run home.. Times have passed though, and its amazing how much growing one can have in a year's time. At home, now, when I'm able to (80+% of the week) I dress, and, arguments or not, Angel stays. Out in public, confidence has been higher, and a little fretting now and then is par for the course. The end result is, if he's just cracking open his shell, then each new crack exposes new sensitive skin to a very REAL world, and it's up to him to be able to put makeup over those new cracks and hold himself together.

Now, I will say that we have indeed fought about my dressing/transition, but mostly because I've been transitioning slowly to presenting as a woman F/T.. and I can not stress enough - SLOWLY. She misses 'her man' and many of the traits that are held dear to that identity.. MAN-liness, beard stubble, hairy legs, you name it.. she's liked the idea of her protective man, and she's loosing him to another woman (so to speak). If you have problems with your BF's dressing and/or his mental state in regards, you have to certainly understand that, as so many others have said, you, nor he, may not even know how far he wants to go with this.. but that taken in time, in small doses, sometimes the end result does become more clear over time.

Granted, I do identify as Transgender / transsexual, so for me, gaining this experience and practice is but a journey towards not only better understanding myself internally but working (secondarily) on aligning my exterior self with the girl that's been hiding inside. This may not be anything like his own personal journey, so to each their own of course.

Watching my GF take all this in, helping me, coaching me, counseling me, guiding me.. has been great to experience as a part of our relationship. She has blossomed herself into a stronger woman as well, and holds my hand in public when we're out, and shows me affection without restraint (whereas when I first came out to her, it almost seemed like she was disgusted with the idea of paying attention to me in public - which hurt of course but is a separate conversation).

Believe me hun, if you're both strong enough to last through the first days/ weeks/ months/ perhaps years of experimentation and understanding, then your relationship with either flourish or, as in many cases, just reach a point of digression.. which should not necessarily be feared, but just understood. It is only in being true to ourselves that we can be true to each other. :hugs:

Best wishes to you and your honey, no matter what. :)

PS: Oh, and I wanted to add at the end that, simply, I agree with so much of what everyone else has been saying too; You need to make sure you LISTEN to your own limits as much as helping him define his.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Do you mean personality blending? How long did it take you to find that balance.

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Well, the blending I meant was more of an appearance blending. If you see someone in a dress or skirt, with long hair and makeup, the "guy or girl" meter naturally moves towards the girl side. If you're as ugly as I am, the eyes are averted since no one seems to want to check out an ugly woman. That's my view on blending. :)

As for personality blending, I would say that I really only have one personality - a combination of the two genders. I can be driven, but am normally low-key. I am empathetic, sympathetic, patient, kind and nurturing. At church, I am "the playground mom" it seems. When a group of us go to the playground on weekends, the kids seem to come to me when they get owies, much to the consternation of their mothers. To the mothers, I'm just one of the girls. We've discussed it. They know I'm straight, but they naturally just let me into their circle. They couldn't explain it, they said it should feel weird to them, but I just "fit." They've stopped apologizing about talking about sex and "girl stuff" around me and teasingly include me in those subjects.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

How cool is it for anyone to be able to say that?!

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I honestly hope it's not as rare as it sounds. I'm the type of person that is generally happy. Having the experiences I've had, doing the things I've done - life does indeed rock!

With time, I'm sure that your BF will get there. I wet through a bit of the "shame on me" period - especially living in such a conservative state as Utah - but it didn't last once I came to grips with the fact that I was and am doing nothing wrong.

Kathi

As some others have mentioned, I use crossdressing as a 'defense mechanism'. Stress makes me want to crossdress, so I just give in to the desire. Being dressed allows me to focus on the clothes, and the sensations of being feminine. Arguing in that state would be counterproductive, and I too would want to keep my crossdressed state as a safe place for me to retreat to when I need a break from the rest of my life. So I would suggest not attaching too much to your SO's desire to change back to male garb when in an argument. Live and let live.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Argggghhhh...what does that mean????? Geeeeeeeezzzz....I have given him 1000% freedom...it's all about him getting in touch with her right now in our lives. Sorry to get off topic but...what's the answer???? Slow him down to give him a chance to process his feelings or just take the hinges off the closet door like I have and let him go wild. Really it's not my place to determine that, it's his life, his issue to process but I'm trying....it's impossible to figure out. At least I can borrow his lipstick...looking for upsides.

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Hello Kelly!
Perhaps 100% freedom to dress and be feminine is just too much for both of you. How about some rules for both of you that you and he can live with and be comfortable with. When you got together with him and knew nothing of his CD you never knew that you would be where you are now. A bit of the old life may be good for both of you. Less experimenting and trying things out all of the time. A pause to live where you are comfortable and have been so to speak.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

So, if I understand correctly...essentially, the repressed female personality has to go through a muturing process on it's own since it's been repressed for so long? That sure sounds like a personality split. Does the grown up male side know that he's dealing with an immature female side? Or is it just like a massive adrenaline rush, which is what I am seeing in him and her right now. It looks a bit bipolar. Sounds like a confusing state to be in.

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Well it is not a classical personality split i.e. it is not a mental disorder. Unless he is a transsexual then he knows he is not a woman but a man who just wants to enjoy being girly. Yes the feminine side needs to mature - it has not even had an opportunity to enjoy a childhood since it has been repressed ever since male gender roles were forced onto him after the age of 5 or so.

You must understand that for males, femininity is seen as a poison to our masculinity. It is something to avoided at all costs and to be squeezed out of our system. However at some point, usually during our childhood, CDs do something that other boys don't do, we become self-aware that their femininity is actually something to be enjoyed and cherished, that it reflects part of our real personalities. But we can never expose and develop our femininity for fear of ostracization and the feelings of perversion and deviance that society teaches us feminine men represent.

For sure CDs understand how immature our feminine nature is. We are all keen observers of women trying to learn the tricks of the trade, trying to fit in, trying to undo the macho behavioral traits that we have been trained to express. This is one reason why CDing is such an adrenaline rush. It is like being born again, having to learn everything from scratch like you are a kid. The colors appear brighter, the smells more sharp, sensations more dramatic. Remember how magical Christmas was when you were young? That's the type of overwhelming feelings CDs get when they finally emerge from the closet.

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Is self acceptance all it takes to get there? And if you're happy simply living a part of you out through an alter ego...which is something I'm concerned about..how do I get him past that place into the place where he wants to be integrated? Am I making this more complicated than it is???

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Self acceptance is a difficult task. CDs almost always have lead isolated lives thinking there were the only perverts in the world who thought this way. The psychological barrier to self acceptance is a steep hill to climb but it is made significantly easier if there is support from others.

How to get him integrated? Well allowing plenty of time you already know about. Allowing him to CD as much as he wants is an important factor. He has to explore and mature and fulfill his dreams. Once he has climbed his mountains and enjoyed the experiences, the excitement will die down. Then you will have more success reaching out to him and being able to talk sensibly. At the moment he is too much in the clouds to think sensibly. And also too scared that your support will disappear one day. Just as you are scared what the future will hold, so is he. He is wondering if your support is really just a pretense to please him. He is wondering maybe one day you will call him a pervert or faggot etc and tell him you can no longer handle his dressing.

Trying to get him to talk about all of this will be a trial. No matter how much he wants to take his feminine side to heart, decades of male behavior of closing up and keeping his emotions and feelings locked inside will make it very hard for him to admit his vulnerability to you. You just need to keep chipping away.

How to stop him developing the alter ego? Well the best way is to stop him from believing his dressing requires full emulation - i.e. wig, breastforms, higher voice pitch, butt waggle, female name etc. He needs to come to grips with seeing himself in the mirror wearing a dress rather than an alter ego playing out a fantasy. Over time teach him to use less make-up, not more and use natural day colors rather than the dramatic reds and blacks and use simple jewelry. Teach him to incorporate jeans and leggings rather than always wearing skirts and dresses. If he is inside the house there is no need for wigs or breastforms since there is no need to "pass"for security and comfort. Basically try to normalize his appearance and behavior i.e.help him mature his feminine side from a girl into a woman.

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But I am not completely sure about how to be supportive and give him space at the same time.

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There are no rights or wrongs. Being supportive is about love, empathy, understanding, being non-judgmental. Guide him with helpful advice, praise him when he puts together a nice outfit. Teach him to open up about his emotions. Earlier you mentioned how he went back into male clothes when you were arguing. That was because he does not relate his feminine side to negativity, he wants it to be all positive and girly. So while he is dressed, tell him to learn "girl talk", and talk emotions - even get him to cry. As men we fight tears, while en femme we have the license to let go.

Good luck!