Or crossdressing! For most GG's (90%) that is all the choice you will have.
The few GG here that accept are few and far between.
Their spouses are LUCKY. But for most we are luck to keep our marrage if our SO finds out.
So yes I am a bit tired of the complaining. Play with fire and you will get burned! So why are you upset your wife is upset of you dressing?
See well thats just it, with time patience and understanding a gg might be able to come to a good place with the cding. While its been said before it seems that alot of the time the cder is soo happy when the SO shows some acceptance that they go into "pink fog" mode which can scare the hell out of us. Usually we only have a little time to digest everything before the fog rolls in and it can be very confusing and yes threatening to us.
Here's an example: My dh and I went to Rainbow mountain for 3 days in August. It is a G/L/TG/CD friendly place and S/he was dressed the whole time. When we returned home it seemed like my man had pretty much stayed on vacation. My natural reaction was to pull back. Now I was the one who suggested this vacation because I knew that s/he would love it and I wanted her to be able to have that time, don't get me wrong, I enjoyed myself also. But the thing was I figured HE should know that I needed him to be him sometimes. Silly me. We were at odds for about 4 or 5 months before we actually talked about it. My actions had confused him...how could I be so accepting one day and pull back the next... His actions confused me, I planned this vacation for him, maybe he realized that he was more than a cd and was not telling me.
As for the older cds and ones who do not realize they are cd till later in life, I can understand why you might not want to tell your longtime partner. The fear of rejection, and possibly ending what is a very loving relationship. But for those who know these days and enter into a relationship it should be told. There is soo much more info out there today that is readily available, and there are support groups like this one where the dear sweet gg's are always there to help and give some perspective. It is only right to disclose this part of yourself and if the gg is the person you think she is she will want to know all of you and educate herself. Otherwise why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who cannot accept the true you?
Karen it seems that your wife knows but does not really want to participate or even talk about it. But again, she knows, you know she knows, you are happy not having to share this with her and she is happy not sharing this with you. It is your relationship, and it works for you...that is what matters. You are not lying or decieving her, it seems that this is the unspoken agreement for you. :2c:
Batty I don't know how much of the "hardwired" arguement that I actually believe, I was just using that as an example because it has been said before.
:D Michelle, outstanding post! Kudos for having the presence to do this, I’d nominate this one for the Top Ten posts of the year if they ever have such a contest. The subsequent pages have been very interesting reading to say the least, so I had to chime in with my bit as well.
I came to grips with my CD urges a couple years ago after having surpressed it almost all my life. At that point, I had to decide whether I should tell my wife about this or not. After some soul searching, I couldn’t bear not to. I had faced up to who I was about a year before this and was becoming increasingly miserable because I didn’t want to risk losing her, but I threw it out there, we struggled along with it for almost two years, and just recently, things have lightened up tremendously and I think my marriage is stronger than ever. I respect, trust, and love my wife, and she respects, trusts, and loves me as well - if those elements are there, your marraige will not fail. If they aren’t there, it’s destined to fail - it’s just a question of when.
Hiding the act of dressing requires a lot of effort, and from the people I’ve talked to on the forum, it brings with it no small measure of guilt. Where’s the “fun” or “thrill” in that? Who likes feeling guilty? Who likes having to hide things and live in fear? At the risk of sounding harsh, continuing to hide something this serious from your wife cannot end well - the longer the deception, the more damage you’ll inflict. For what it’s worth, I say clear the air, for better or worse, and open the discussion. Yes, it may be difficult, it may be awkward, it may be dangerous, but in my opinion, it should be done. If your wife loves you, things can very likely work out happily, or at least you can find a happy medium ground somewhere. Your guilt will be gone, you don’t have to hide anymore, and she’ll know that you trust her because you’re sailing something out there that’s extremely taboo in the eyes of many. What’s more personal and trusting than sharing a secret this big?
If you continue to hide things and get discovered, then yes, she’s going to think the worst and rightly so. If you can hide something as elaborate as this, what else are you capable of? That’s a recipe for a major train wreck and I don’t see how that scenario can end well at all.
As for “coming out” causing divorces, frankly, I don’t believe that train of thought. Seldom does a divorce happen for a single reason. More often than not, a number of problems lead to divorce, not just one issue. If you’re a great husband, father, etc, in most other respects, I can’t imagine many women being so shallow that they would throw in the towel over something like this. Granted, they may not like it at first, they may not ever like it, but as far as this single issue leading to divorce, I think it’s very rare that this would completely wreck an otherwise healthy relationship. I believe women want a man to be truthful to them, even if its about something they’re not comfortable with, rather than be kept in the dark and lied to.
In short, if you’re going to be man enough to wear a garter belt and 4" heels, be man enough to tell your wife the TRUTH about who you are. The ball is in her court at that point, and you’ve done the honorable thing. :2c:
And KAREN, wow! What naughty replies you’ve done! Yes, Virginia, there ARE real accepting GG’s out there because I’ve spoken with a bunch of them in recent weeks and I’ve gotta’ say I received fantastic advice from them. I really enjoy your posts Karen, but I fear you’d better have on some Kevlar undies after that one! :eek:
No matter how well the marriage is going that will end it for her.
And do you blame her. Yes marriages usually break up for more than one reason Money is the main reason in the US. But finding out your spouse is gay is a shock. Again Yes most CD'ers are not gay but most people do not know that.
does NOTHING to help any one of us here, GG, TG, CD or other.Quote:
Originally Posted by janedoe311
Louise.
So you just chatted with them?? Better grab one quick... Hehe. Next time I go out enfemme I'm wearing my hockey equipment!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Randi
:tongueout
Love Karren
real consequence to you. It is pure fun and the rest of us are probably raining on your parade. As my teens would say...Duh on me for being so slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
Louise.
Karren Karren Karren....
Didn't your older sibling teach you anything? You should have put on the hockey pads BEFORE you jumped into this discussion.
And sorry to rain on your parade sis, but I know of several accepting GGs here in town. Weren't that hard to find.....just demand honesty up front.
Emily Ann
:D Karen, do they make femme hockey attire? I'm in south Louisiana, what the blazes is hockey anyway? You's is havin' way too much fun! :p
And on the other topic, the hiding stuff is exactly what leads a lot of wives, I think, to suspect the "gay" thing. Sure, I'm certain that thought goes through the minds of all wives and spouses of us peculiar folk initially, but I think with a little education, most ladies can understand many of us aren't gay at all, we're just wired up with an impeccable sense of fashion and style! :D
Yes, JaneDoe, I think many woman are in the groove of thinking that men who dress and look remarkably well are gay. Is this because woman do dress to attract men, so it seems like a logical conclusion.
It cost me my dearest girlfriend of 25 years, because she feels sorry for me, that I will be hurt and partner has to be gay and will slip.
She is very set in her ways, and will never change her mind. I feel like I've lost a "sister", but , if she can't be openminded enough, or have enough respect for me, that I am happy and that I'm sure of our relationship...........I'm thinking she just wasn't the good friend I thought she was!!
I chose my lifepartner, and soul-mate, always there for me, understands me totally. Her loss, my mate and I are good people. This friend is a typical midwestern woman, who lives her life in constant fear of what people think of her.........Sounds like prison to me. IMHO
Actually it was my situation just 2 years ago... When she found a couple skirts and I told her.. Still wish I hadn't.... And I still don't believe a blanket "tell the truth" *s right for every crossdresser on this planet... Pluss I've always been someone that liked to challange the prevailing "jump on the band wagon" thoughts even if I'm proven wrong down the road.... A contrarian maybe....Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbownine GG
Sooooo if that's my parade..... Fine..... Guess were not supposed to question anything.......
Karren
I love the debate piece too! It is sadly missing on many boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
And while I agree that honesty is the best to shoot for I never did claim it was the best for all. my only disaggreement with you was that totally accepting GGs are a myth. They are not plain and simple.
Louise.
Ok I concede that point to you that they do exist...out there ... Somewhere though I've never met one..... But extremely rare... And precious if you have one...... I don't.....................Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbownine GG
Love Karren
I've never been married but I've been real close with 3 GG's and I told 'em all that I dress.Now I'm not as experienced of a CD'r as some of you others and I'm certainly not out to point fingers at some of you who are in situations where your SO's don't know or disaprove that you dress.And let's face it,for a lot of CD'rs whether or not you are able to keep a good job or stay in a nice neighborhood depends on a little cautious secrecy.But,in a way,we're all doing this for ourselves and it really isn't anybody's business,anyway.There was one GG that I told and we would go shopping together for my stuff.I would tell her in a panic to "tell the saleslady it's for you because I don't know what to say about it"This was a couple of years out of high school and this woman who was 5 years older than I was finally got a little bit tough with me and told me that I should just go ahead and buy what I wanted without a "cover story",etc.,lies about how it's for Mom,my Aunt,My sister,etc.and I haven't forgotten it.Unfortunately,I was in nearly full dress at her apartment where I spent half my time and she made some remark that she "didn't care if I dressed in ladie's things but to tell you the truth I think it's strange that you do it".It was at about this time that she also told me she "cared a lot about me but wasn't in love with me".So it's lucky for me that I cut myself a breather by telling her early on about my CD'ing.We had discussed co-habitation and also discussed marriage on a handful of ocaisions but I'm nowadays releived that I didn't make that plunge!There was another GG that I was very,very close to who I had known since Junior High in 1969. I became very close to her in like 1980 and I sensed ourselves being drawn close together.So before long I just told her all about it and she became a best freind and mentor.We both wore the same equivalent sizes in Women's clothes and were the same heighth(5'8).She died 2 years ago after being ill for several years but it's lucky that I was out with it about my dressing.She had moved into a new house not long before she died and I was going to have a "guest" bedroom with a vanity and floor to ceiling mirrors.If you can wedge it into the conversation it's better to let your girlfreinds know that you are a CD while the relationship is still getting started.If they're not going to tolerate it,then you'll know that before long and if they approve,they will also let you know.
if there is one that you should tell thats your [girlfriend, or wife]
I didn't realise that this was going to be such a popular post. I can tell you that I'm glad I posted it now. Seems to me that from the majority of the people who have responded the ones who's SO know about it they are still with them, whether they accept it or not. From my experience and from reading what others are saying being honest about who we are is the best thing for everybody involved. I'm not saying to run in the streets in a skirt and heels and yell to the world "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME." The women that I was honest with had no problem with it and for any of us who have never told a potential partner about what and who we are should not jump to conclusions that most women wouldn't accept this. I think we may be surprised at just how many women don't really care. Case in point, I met someone a few weeks ago and we have been chatting online quite regular. Today I decided to put it to the test again and told her, she was OK with it. That's 4 for 4.
As a GG I had to grow up fast and my sister left home when I was 7-8. She lived in the cities and going up there to spend time with her I was exposed to GLBT community at an early age. My parents also taught me "never judge a book by it's cover" type morals. I live by them everyday since I can remember. I think if a GG is exposed and bought up around GLBT/CD (even in passing) we are more excepting. I know I am for it. When Ryan/Regan told me it was a fantacy(sp?) of his I had no problem with it because in my late teens and early 20's I was formally introduce to the GLBT/CD community by some friends of mine.
I was actually excited about it when he told me. Ryan/Regan is also bi so for me he's everything I have ever wanted in a man, a bestfriend as well as a great partner. I have had a harder time with him being bi and being used to having a boifriend on the side than him CDing. I told him in time I could get used to the boifriend thing because it's all new to me. And he agreed to hold of till I was fully ready and if that time never came then he'd be happy with as well.
I whole heartly agree with Michelle on the honesty. There are GG's out there that are willing to accept there men in drag for who they are if they are honest up front. But on the other side of the coin there are many GG's that are still closed minded and that sadens me to no end. Like I had said in previous posts....I could give a s**t less if Ryan actually became Regan for the rest of his life(go though the operation)....I would become a lesbian. I fell in love with him for his personality not because he likes pumps and dresses. Hell I've went as far as helping him start is woman's woredorbe and had a blast shopping for him.
He says he's lucky to have a understanding G/F like me but I think he just likes the fact I was blessed/cursed with rabbit feet.....lmao! He's been scoping out my shoes and honestly I don't mind. I would rather have him feel comfortable in his oun skin and keep up with his responcabilities to our family than be miserable and jaded about no feeling comfortable coming out.
That'sa just my :2c:
Maria
Too many people -- men and women -- think that if one crossdresses, then they are gay. BUT, as a gay friend told me once, most gay men are attracted to m-e-n, not women and not a man emulating a woman. There are, of course, exceptions, but if you give this line of reasoning some deep thought, it makes sense. There are a number of books that have seriously studied "heterosexual male crossdressing." One that comes to mind -- Boys Will Be Girls -- truly attempts to deliniate the different reasons men CD. Besides the heterosexual CD, there obviously are "drag queens" who are gay, female impersonators (much like drag queens -- may or may not be gay -- but dress to entertain), and certain male prostitutes. There are TS's. And there are also gay (or bi) CD'ers, which pretty much brings us full circle. This is why the term "crossdresser" can be confusing at times -- it can encompass so many who dress for different reasons.
I recall talking to one gg whose first thought about a crossdresser was, "he must be gay." Once all of the above was explained, she saw the faulty reasoning -- but had she not had all of this explained to her -- and if she had not been given the time to process the information, she might well still believe as she originally thought. I participated in conducting a survey a number of years ago, and one revelation that the heterosexual male CDer often has to face is stereotyping!!! (yep, we've gone a few rounds on that topic lately, too -- lol.)
Most studies I have read and/or participated in, don't really look at F-T-M crossdressing. As has been noted here so many times before, women can wear male clothing (and clothing that has been altered to be sold to them, like VS's "boyshorts") and nobody thinks a thing about it -- in fact, it is often considered chic, en vogue, and sexy. The studies I've seen only show a perception problem when a F-T-M CDer dresses in a very "butch" manner. Of course, "participant age groupings" reflected a great deal: I'm showing my age, but I recall when boys wore pants to school (no denim) and girls had to wear dresses or skirts. Later, when girls started wearing pants, it couldn't be denim.
Okay, scrap the forced feminization remark. Not really my point anyway. I wanted to point out that a "totally accepting SO" can fit many decriptions according to what your viewpoint is. IMHO, Kerry is a totally accepting SO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
I agree. I have never had a relationship end due to my crossdressing. I have always been honest about me being a CDer. Even had a couple of willing participants. I do not know how there can be real love if there can't be trust.
I live with a wife who is 100% accepting and just in Houston alone I can introduce you to at least 10 wives who are totally accepting and supportive. I could introduce you to hundreds of other accepting wives in other parts of the US and Canada that are 100% accepting. I do have to say that no wife will be 100% accepting if the CD pushes the envelope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
WOW, this topic sure has taken on a life of it's own! 4 pages and still going!
But it is what I feel the "problem" is. Most GG's feel CD's are gay. So they will not except it. So what can be done about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbownine GG
well said - i've recently been on both sides - hated the deception, felt i was only giving part of my self in my relationship. faced the music - very scary time, lots of tears and recriminations - things still not easy but guess what - we're not divorced yet and we're still working through stuff but its honest.
mitch
We educate these GG's about who we are. It is not that difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by janedoe311