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You raise an interesting subject. Oddly women wear drab a lot, and though I don't find it attractive at all I don't think I should comment.
I sometimes wonder how people commenting about crossdressing is different to them commenting about people wearing clothes that just don't suit them at all. Why is it OK to comment about the former but not socially acceptable to comment about the latter because it might upset them.
Great debate everyone and it really had got me to thinking on it.
This is what I came up with. Crossdressing is more than the clothing, A comedian in drag is funny, Crossdressing in general for a laugh or for Holloween or an actor in a play or movie roll is more than OK it draws on the general public's curiosity. When We CD we do it for different reasons, At least I do, and in that regard where the BIG FUSS comes into play.
I crossdress, and I think many others do as well, because it is a GENDER ISSUE. (Thanks Melissa for pointing that out.) We dress because we want and need to express ourselves as who we are, feminine men (or rather feminine males). We all like the clothing, the hair and nails, we cry at movies or a sappy book we like things differently and understand things differently than a normal macho guy would. We have a different point of view on the world and ourselves. The BIG FUSS I think goes right to the heart of why we crossdress. We can't be ourselves really because society has been "trained" over the years that if a boy acts the least bit feminine, he gets "scolded", by parents, peers and others and the behavior is corrected. We learn not to act "that way". Everyone gets this training, everyone, boys learn early on how they should act, girls learn that boys should act a certain way as well and the same goes for girls who are are taught to behave and think like a girl.
So the general public, who has had this "training", makes it a big deal because it is not what was instilled in them, "it's not normal". People are scared of differences from the norm. Gays and Lesbians overcame this by fighting for the right to be themselves, but still everyone looks at the "butch" GG and makes comments. For them their life style/fashion style creates a BIG FUSS and are closest to understanding our issues. It all comes down to Gender - You are male biologially so you should act macho, or you are born female and you should act like a girl. This thinking is what causes the BIG FUSS made about males crossdresssing and acting feminine. If you are a feminine gay man its "OK" by society because he is gay. But be hetro or Bi and wear womens clothing and look out! It mixes up the standards and everyone makes such a big fuss about it.
This "training" we've had since early on is generally at the root of what causes depression, guilt, shame and confusion in crossdressers. Overcomming that training is a big step in accepting who you are and living a truely happy life. You do not fit into the standard mold society has created. It is also that "training" that makes being a CROSSGENDERED person a BIG DEAL. We think crossdressing is a big deal because we make it that way by going against our "gender training". Crossdressing is what we do because we are crossgendered, (when crossdressing is not fetishized for sexual gradification, or be submissive in a sexual context which is a different story) and being crossgenderd is not normal and therefore is cause for concern, histairia and confusion by the general public at large. Maybe that is what causes the BIG Fuss when it comes to crossdressing.
Again, great debate, great topic, it really has me thinking hard on why I crossdress, I think its my way to express my crossgenderness. Sexually I'm male, but otherwise I'm a mixed bag of gender confusion and I like it that way.
Hi Paula,
Wish you had gotten here earlier. Would have saved alot of ink. or bytes. or bits. or boots. Whatever. (I got a shoe reference in there! Still got it!)
Great insight, my friend.
Hugs,
Melissa :)
It was nice reading your post Paula, just one question. You say it's OK to be a femenine gay man because he is gay and society accepts fem gay men, How does one know that the fem man is gay? If you see a man acting fem how can we tell if he is gay or maybe he is a straight Cd, who is acting fem when not dressed. I just think this is sort of stereotyping, I have met fem acting straight men as well as gay.
I think I might do a poll to find out where people live. I don't mean the exact town, but I wonder how many here live in rural or suburban areas. Because the way of life is quite different in the cities that I have lived in. The areas that I have lived in, people don't really care how one dresses, male or female. Yes there are CDs walking around my neighborhood, there are women who you describe as "butch" walking around, there are goths, punks, b-boys, all different types of people, and no one cares how someone dresses. No one in my neighborhood is complaining how one gender has it better than another, we just live together, all types are welcome.
I don't want to sound harsh, but I think the majority here are living in Rush Limbaugh territory. Most here must be living in the narrow minded part of the world. I have never met anyone, while living in the city complain that they are being treated unfairly because of the way they dress.
Yes, the cities have their problems, but complaining about who can where what clothes is not one of them.
Hi Amelie,
Having grown up in NYC and lived most of my adult life in MUCH more conservative (with exceptions) pretty far upstate NY, I'd say you are exactly right.
The differences are astounding. The fear of anything different is rampant outside of cities, especially the coastal cities.
You are surrounded by diversity, and are used to it. It is totally different in this area, even in a city like Albany, which is fairly progressive, by upstate standards.
Hugs,
Melissa :)
my original point was that it is a double standard that women can wear or dres anyway they want and a man doing the same is not accepted. Not ice I left out cannot as you can do what you want. It and LISTEN CLEARLY... DOES NOT MATTER IF THE MAN WANS TO BE A WOMAN OR A FROG or a elephant! It is still a double standard regardless. You should dress and be femme or mascualine if you want no matter WHY YOUR DOING IT. somehow in all this debate this was lost. I don't care if a guy wants to be a women and dresses or a women dresses in mens cloths and doesn't wanna be a man "SOME DO THOUGH!" i am stating a FACT.... that there is a double standard and that is it PERIOD. It is a FACT. so all that dribble about why and its okay for women becasue they don't wanna be men is irrelevant to my point of the double standard.
Anyway my family knows and I am not getting a sex change I jsut prefer to be very femine and be pretty. Men can be pretty to and in many cases more sttractive and pretty than some women. Of course women are said to be the better looking sex as they have the freedon to do that and obtain it without a problem. They have all the best clothing and wigs etc to wear. Let loose all the issues of a guy wearing them and you will see some very sexy TV's.
Remember men can be SEXY and beautiful to..........
Oh and like i mentioned origianlly is that if we go by todays stadards all the founding father were crossdressers. Wigs and makeup. Oh and anyone in scotland and mail is gay and CD becasue they were kilts / skirts.....
It is all HORSE MANURE if you ask me...........
Thank you.
Tiffany,Quote:
Originally Posted by TiffanySlave
I totally agree that we need Transvestite marches! I can't afford to go to DC, can you get it a bit closer to Minnesota? To do a Crossdresser Pride March would be outstanding. Sometimes there is such a thing as safety in numbers. And get the GG's who support crossdressers to come along, we're VERY protective of our crossdressers!
I don't agree with double standard in any form and they should be done away with completely. The only way that we can change the double standards is to educate people (as impossible as that can be). To let them know what cross dressing is truely about no matter what stage a cross dresser is at in their lives. The M-F and the F-M don't need the bs.
Carrah,
My body is the way it is, I don't change it to make people either look or not look at me. I don't wear bras that either accentuate or deminish what I am. Most of the conversations that have been held to my breasts were while I was wearing loose fitting clothing. (I just don't like to wear clothing that restrict my movements.)
Most of my friends are male.
Also, it's been a while since I've checked the stats on life expectancy but last time I looked us emotional females out live the logical males by about 20 years.
No, I won't use a gun against someone, I can't see them well enough so won't take the risk of missing. But, they will be speaking to the business end of my katana. (We have a eclectic collection of weapons to say the least, most of them working "replicas" from the 18th century.)
Topaz
I was going to stay off this thread as I was asked to pull one of my comments, and being censored isn't something I swallow well. But I don't want any misunderstandings between Mona and myself. So, here goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonaSmith
Mona, I am not saying you are not a crossdresser. I'm not saying anybody is anything or not anything. What I am saying is that I am not a transexual, though I do fit into the classification of transgendered. I have no idea what you are, as I've never met you except for on this site. However, I have found, particularly on this forum, that there is an unwillingness to accept distinct definitions. They aren't my defiinitions, I'm not married to them, and I could careless who believes in them, but I do. Transgender definitions have been designed for a reason, and much of this discussion is an example of that. Like I said, I don't know what you are, except gorgeous.
Crossdressing....why the big fuss indeed Tiffany?:confused:
The big problem is that there is no organization to cd's mtf or ftm. I mean a while ago gays had the same problem. certian things alike a man wearing an earing was soemthing that was not accepted. Now day s they have like rings in there ears and the nose and anywhere you can fit one. The thing the gay and lesbians did is organize and do it on a bigger scale. TS and CD have that but there jsut all spread out in small groups in cities. There needs to be ONE big one that they all can be a part of. DO that and there is your march. It would be enough to populate a city like baltimore were im from if all ts ,tv,cd and ts were to come out. HEY WE COULD JUST HAVE OUR OWN CITY :) Kick em out and we can live there and if they dont cross dress will kick em out of scool and suspend them :) eheh
Amelie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa A.
Hi hon, love your latest avitar Pic, It looks great. You are 100% correct. Melissa hit the nail right on the head. IT ALL DEPENDS UPON YOUR PERSPECTIVE. If you are used to the diversity in your area, no one would pay you much mind but out in the sticks or smaller cities where diversity has not become the NORM a man in a dress will stand out. Set up that poll it would be neat to corrilate the poll to your view ponit to the region in which CD's live. I think Yvonne is working on another questionair/pol; that delves into this issue a bit. Check out her site for crossdressers.
Melissa - Thank you.