case study

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Batty, Love the new avatar dear. Very, cute. :happy:
I had my hubby read your reply and he agreed to try it. :D I think this might start things off. I would maybe add to your rules list that what ever is revieled during these communication sessions can not be used against the other in the heat of an argument.

Do you think that communication might be easier because he would not be wearing the "uniform" of his man self? I mean, sort of like talking in the dark, it is just easier. If this is the case then one needs to eventually work on being a better communicator in the man "uniform" as well.

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Thanks!
Good point, absolutely that should also be a rule.
I think the not wearing the male 'uniform' is one part as you say, but also by wearing the female clothes it could help him feel more open to exploring his feelings, the ultimate male taboo. Also many CDers tend to feel more confidant and comfortable in some respects in their femme gear, making the whole exercise easier. I think this exercise would help both overall relate to their partner, to their partners feelings, to their own emotions which would help communication in the long term whatever the side being worn. Once he's more in touch with his feelings in girl mode, then he can start to work on them in guy mode. At any rate its a chance to learn more about each other, the kind of things that might not ever be discussed.

You know DarleneHoney, you just validated many of my views that crossdressing really has very little to do with anything, because you could have been talking about my relationship there and in fact have echoed many pieces of advice given to me by family, friends and mental health professionals..

And indeed much of the replies would give the CD's side, because after all it is mostly us CD's that are answering. Though I do agree that some could address more the broad general hypothetical than any particular persons relationship.

We should all certainly appllaud Kitty for having the courage to ask these questions, to listen to our answers and whatever she chooses for herself and for her relationship I admire her and support her for it.

Hmm.. and this reminds me of another observation I wanted to make about men in general (and again this is a broad generalisation) and one that I can be guilty of myself. Many men I've known are (in my view) self centred, but not selfish. Rather than knowingly choosing their own wants over others needs (which is how I define selfishness) they are just generally oblivious of how their actions or choices might impact on others. This isn't wilful but is partly a preoccupation with there own circumstance, partly a lack of social awareness that comes from the differing social structures that men opperate under and partly due to the emotional repression or stunted growth imposed on many boys.

Empathy and a consideration of others isn't heavily taught to boys, but there also seems to be a notion amongst many GG's I've known that it is proper to pre-empt anothers desires to ensure that your actions will consider these which is something I have had large problems with because many painful missunderstandings have come from incorrect assumptions of my wants or likely choices, from my failure to pre-empt such desires of GG's or even from my directly asking when I 'should just know'. This self-centredness or even just failing to make correct assumptions about others has been labeled selfish by some GG's which I don't think is correct.

Certainly though I think that most males could do well to be more aware of those around them, myself included and we could all do well from assuming less and asking more.

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Originally Posted by DarleneHoney

This is the typical male's response to anything that threatens him. .

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You know, I agree with 99% of your post, but this is a bit offensive. It's like saying "Typical for a woman to get all moody and cry about it." Offensive.

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Originally Posted by Leah B

You know, I agree with 99% of your post, but this is a bit offensive. It's like saying "Typical for a woman to get all moody and cry about it." Offensive.

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my Carin is in no way selfish or inconsiderate and *I* find it offensive for her to be catagorized as such.



Louise.

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Originally Posted by battybattybats

I think the not wearing the male 'uniform' is one part as you say, but also by wearing the female clothes it could help him feel more open to exploring his feelings, the ultimate male taboo.

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I agree and I think this is a good example of a postive aspect of crossdressing which SOs should be taking advantage of. When their partner is crossdressed, SOs should take the opportunity to have emotive talks. Eventually once this has been practiced regularly whilst crossdressed, the CD will become comfortable enough to have these talks even when en drab. I think CDs should not just have fun when dressing but should also think about bettering themselves as persons by taking time to develop better emotive and communication skills which are not part and parcel of male conditioning.

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Originally Posted by DarleneHoney

Dear Kitty,

After reading your case study and the posts it's obvious why the GG's keep their business out of this forum. You asked for feedback on a hypothetical situation and got attacked and ridiculed. This is the typical male's response to anything that threatens him. These folks may dress in women's clothes but let's face it, most of these people are still men, and act and react like men. Period.

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Hmm....I will agree with the others and say this remark is deeply offensive to many members here who do not relate to men at all. This forum is trying to encourage understanding and empathy and your remarks come across as gratuitous and sexist. Crossdressers are far removed from "typical men", something which would be apparent if society's intolerence were removed and we could freely express ourselves.

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Originally Posted by battybattybats

You know DarleneHoney, you just validated many of my views that crossdressing really has very little to do with anything, because you could have been talking about my relationship there and in fact have echoed many pieces of advice given to me by family, friends and mental health professionals..

And indeed much of the replies would give the CD's side, because after all it is mostly us CD's that are answering. Though I do agree that some could address more the broad general hypothetical than any particular persons relationship.

We should all certainly appllaud Kitty for having the courage to ask these questions, to listen to our answers and whatever she chooses for herself and for her relationship I admire her and support her for it.

Hmm.. and this reminds me of another observation I wanted to make about men in general (and again this is a broad generalisation) and one that I can be guilty of myself. Many men I've known are (in my view) self centred, but not selfish. Rather than knowingly choosing their own wants over others needs (which is how I define selfishness) they are just generally oblivious of how their actions or choices might impact on others. This isn't wilful but is partly a preoccupation with there own circumstance, partly a lack of social awareness that comes from the differing social structures that men opperate under and partly due to the emotional repression or stunted growth imposed on many boys.

Empathy and a consideration of others isn't heavily taught to boys, but there also seems to be a notion amongst many GG's I've known that it is proper to pre-empt anothers desires to ensure that your actions will consider these which is something I have had large problems with because many painful missunderstandings have come from incorrect assumptions of my wants or likely choices, from my failure to pre-empt such desires of GG's or even from my directly asking when I 'should just know'. This self-centredness or even just failing to make correct assumptions about others has been labeled selfish by some GG's which I don't think is correct.

Certainly though I think that most males could do well to be more aware of those around them, myself included and we could all do well from assuming less and asking more.

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Wow Batty, again more food for thought.
I agree with your assesment of selfishness and gg's maybe missing the mark by confusing self-centerness with sefishness. I do agree that boys are taught to be self-centered and girls are taught to be selfless. Neither is right. Our children need to be taught the same regardless of their gender. Who says that girls make the best mothers? I have know men that nurture better than some females but our society puts those kinds of men down. Being stay at home dads is looked down on but why? If the women has the capicity to have higher earnings and the male wants to be home and be the "house wife" then why in hell do we all make such a big deal about it. I know some very career orientated women who would love a situation like that be they are told by other females that being career orientated is wrong in some way. Not all women are hardwired to be nurturing or loving. Just like not all men are hardwired to be tough and unemotional. Sometimes we are confused with what we are taught and what we actually feel inside.

No wonder we have problems communicating. Who decided the demarkation of duties and behaviors anyway? I think that in todays society gender roles have to be reassesed.

You are so right about assumptions. This is were we all go wrong. Many times direct communication would be so much easier if we left the assumptions we make first at the door. First the assumption of the meaning of the comment or action then the emotions that that assumption ilicits then the argument which comes to some crescendo. I don't know how many times this has happened in my relationship. All of the energy that we spent in negativity only to find that it was wasted on a wrong assumption. whew, I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

I think that this conversation makes a good argument to try your exercise in communication. I think if we get to know eachother better we will make fewer wrong assumptions in our communications. It is really hard to get to know someone who is introverted unless they make an effort. Introverts generally see extroverts as pushy and intrusive. Extroverts generall see introverts as weak and passive. Neither is reall totally true and again a wrong assumption.

I am really anxious to try the exercise. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for opening my eyes a little about this topic. :hugs::love: Kitty

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

It is really hard to get to know someone who is introverted unless they make an effort. Introverts generally see extroverts as pushy and intrusive. Extroverts generall see introverts as weak and passive. Neither is reall totally true and again a wrong assumption.

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I've found dealing with introverts is like fishing, you have to lure them out gently.

I thought this concept deserves some more attention as this has been a great discussion. Does anyone have another 'case study' concept for us all to discuss?