As Rodney King said, "Can't we all get along?" :Playnice:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara GG
This forum has shown me, that no two CDs are alike! and I think the Fifth Amendment would apply here. This is America, isn't it?
I have to thank the administrators for voicing their common sense!
:iagree:
I waited to respond to this thread, as it seems others did, too. I'll admit this thread required due and deep consideration! I completely understand the bdsm scene. If I recall correctly, I believe I recently stated on here that there are some (many?) CDers who turn to b/d and/or s/m for an outlet to be able to CD in front of another, whether forced or not. Once Pink said her Mistress required her to (complete the listed tasks within a certain time frame), Pink revealed herself to be a part of that scene to some greater or lesser degree. I absolutely do NOT have ANY problem with that whatsoever!!! In fact, I can see where it is an ultimate high -- thrilling, liberating, and invigorating -- and maybe just the right touch of humiliation!!!
Louise said (and I respect Louise tremendously):
So, Pink, to be quite honest, my ONLY concern when I first saw your post, and as I thought about it during the day, was the possible effects on our GGs. They do read this forum to learn, observe, investigate, and interact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carin's Wife GG
Louise seems to be a greatly enlightened person with high intellectual capacity. It does not, therefore, come as any news that she could and would say, "As a GG, Pink's posting does not scare me away." HOWEVER, since I have been on this site, I have seen many GGs come here who were deeply troubled and whose mental states were fragile. Some are hanging on by a mere thread, so to speak, and I am of the opinion that your thread might do them more harm than good -- BUT ONLY BY being placed where it was placed!!!
So, the one critical thing I have to say is this: I honestly believe that your thread would have been more appropriate in another place on this forum -- if for no other reason than simple respect for those who have come here for stability (or something closely akin to it -- and who would, correctly or not, think, that they are having their sense and sensibility assaulted. I am further convinced that many might actually freak out -- asking is Pink's representation what their SO's are doing? The mind can run absolutely wild in the face of uncertainty. I have found this website to be one of compassion and empathy, and education and edification. So, while I can see your great enthusiasm for what you are doing, Pink -- and I can completely understand it -- it is my humble opinion that you could have reached the same goal by posting elsewhere on this very site!!! I would still have reponded to you, as I am sure many would have. My senses were not assaulted at all. But, I think there have been many who have "fallen silent" vis-a-vis your post - at least I haven't seen some I would have expected to have seen on here. How many GG's have responded? As I write this the number is three?!! To me, that says something significant.
Maybe Emily Ann's perspective is also relevant in this same line of thought:
That may be quite valid!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily Ann Brown
Mitch also had an interesting perspective, but I won't go into repeating everything everybody said.
Let me end by saying that, just like Louise and Carin, my wife an I are doing a "remarriage" or "commitment ceremony" (whichever you prefer) when we are in Vegas in June, with me as the bride. Louise was right: that's probably something that isn't everybody's cup of tea -- and I suppose any number of new GGs coming to this site might well find such very odd. At any rate, I hope you meet all of your deadlines -- and I hope you enjoy the experience. I imagine it could be quite liberating emotionally!!! Do take care in your pursuits!!!
I skipped reading about your adventures at first Pink because it just seemed sooooooo lonnnnnnggggg! :heehee:
I'm glad I took the time tonight to read. I actually 'get' what you are doing with your mistress because I dalllied with that for a brief time myself last year. It was a way of forcing myself out of the closet...for me, once I had flushed myself into the open so to speak, my motivation and attitude changed, so I don't think I'll be doing anything more like that from now on. But at the time it was a useful tool - I just didn't know it was a tool then - I was just exploring and pushing some latent fantasies.
What I love and appreciate about your stories is the attention to detail in your retelling them. It is fascinating to see the reaction of people you encounter, and really quite surprising how people seem to be more than willing to help. That alone is inspiring for any of us who are still afraid of getting our first pedicure, or going out dressed to the mall for the first time, etc.
The interesting thing about self accepted 'humliation' I found was the freedom and power it actually gives you in the end. When I went into the lingerie section of a major department store and told the clerk that my Mistress had told me to buy some specific items (I showed her the list) I first thought I would just die. My face was beet red my voice trembling, but by the time I had finished my shopping I, for the first time ever, was confident taking my purchases to the counter, knowing full well I was entitled to buy lingerie for myself. Ever since then I'm not nearly as nervous or abashed in buying anything femme for myself. It is LIBERATING!
It might not be the way for a lot of people, but a little bit worked for me and I can see you are indeed brave and I'm sure that completing these tasks will in the end give you the belief that when you are determined you can do ANYTHING in your life. I hope you do continue posting your adventures here. They are also very entertaining to read. :D
Sorry about some of the reaction you got here. We're kind of sensitive about anything that seems overtly sexual, and some people think the Mistress thing is all about sex. I think it's much more about pyschological stuff. Like I said, in my case it was my way of forcing myself into my gender reality. You have your own reasons which are as valid as anyone's so you go girl! :hugs:
And just what forum might you suggest we move it to then? Should we move it to the intros along side the member that is in the closet, wears his wives clothes and gets off on cam in front of other men... and his wife doesn't know? no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara4242
With all due respect, there is nothing wrong with this thread. He is hurting no one, no wife, no g/f... not like some of the members past and present, who have cheated on their partners and posted blatently about it in this section... but that's ok isn't it... that's not frowned upon... lots of 'you go girl' in those threads... :rolleyes:
So tell me, what exactly is wrong with this thread? who is it actually hurting? Not me, I see someone having fun, is that so wrong? or should we go back to the norm of panty threads... yeah you gotta love those invigorating threads... just what we need to know... just how much you love panties... highlight of my :censor: day.... NOT!!!!
I am amazed at the amount of interest this post has produced, both for and against pinks adventure. The one thing that irks me is the condemnation pink got...I thought we were an informed group of people, after all, we are all dealing with dressing in one form or another. I was so wrong, I have read hurtful and snide comments. This isn't my scene at all, but it is pinks and I am OK with that.
Threads like this are important to us all, it shows us the vast differences in how we view dressing. Tamara is so right, this thread is far more enlightening than 100 pantie threads. If you don't like a thread then just do this....hit the back button on your computer and just leave the thread.Go on to another.
Tamara,
I guess this is a "sensitive day" in re Pinks's thread. I hope I have a right to reply to what you posted about what I had posted without being slammed. All I ask is that you read this post in its entireity. That said, I think you misunderstood what I was saying, which included:
(A.) an unambigious endorsement for Pink's enthusiastic pursuit of her "assignment,"
(B.) my feelings about one of this website's strongest attributes,
(C.) the opinion I had reached regarding one (and only one) possible area of concern about Pink's post,
(D.) the sudden realization I had that some of what I do might, likewise, be a potential area of concern in a like way (A + B = C), and
(E.) a sincere wish that Pink continue to enjoy herself, with a sentiment that she take care in pursuing her assignments.
That was the overall emphasis of what I was said -- and I presumed I had a right to express what I did. I believe I did so clearly and unambigiously, and even in an envy-like fashion. I don't think ANY of what I said was unkind towards Pink or anybody. I tried to simply lay forth an opinion that some GGs, especially neophytes, might not understand this type of activity and such might add to their angst.
Before anyone takes your blasting of me at face value, let's be clear in the major sentiments I expressed.
1. In part, I said: "I absolutely do NOT have ANY problem with (what Pink is doing) whatsoever!!!"
2. I continued with what I consider excellent rationale for Pink doing what she is doing. I said: "I can see where (what she is doing) is an ultimate high -- thrilling, liberating, and invigorating -- and maybe just the right touch of humiliation!!!" I also said, "I . . . completely understand (Pink's great enthusiasm) for what she is doing." To me, the word "liberating" is a major thing -- how many CDers want that liberated feeling to truly be themselves?!!!
3.) Within my writiing I showed a new-found realization of the potential impact of what I say on here when I said, "Let me end by saying that, just like Louise and Carin, my wife and I are doing a "remarriage" or "commitment ceremony" (whichever you prefer) when we are in Vegas in June, with me as the bride. Louise was right: that's probably something that isn't everybody's cup of tea -- and I suppose any number of new GGs coming to this site might well find such very odd."
4.) I rieterated my "best wishes" at the end when I said: " . . . I hope you meet all of your deadlines -- and I hope you enjoy the experience. I imagine it could be quite liberating emotionally!!! Do take care in your pursuits!!!"
Regarding the exceptional value of this forum, I said, "I have found this website to be one of compassion and empathy, and education and edification."
My ONLY area of concern was, " . . . the possible effects on our GGs. They do read this (MTF) forum to learn, observe, investigate, and interact (and) I have seen many GGs come here who were deeply troubled and whose mental states were fragile." For that reason alone I suggested that "perhaps" Pink's thread might be better placed in another part of this website.
You then come down on me like a ton of bricks absolutely blasting away at me like I had objected to Pink and his activities (which clearly isn't the case). You tell me there is nothing wrong with his thread. I agree!!! I have already said as much -- I said it impressed me as a liberating thing to do. You say the exact same thing again in the next paragraph -- Pinks hurting nobody and she's just having fun. I never said otherwise.
SIDEBAR: I'm sorry but I have to make a sidebar right here. I have told on here before about how both my wife and I were deeply hurt in our respective first marriages by partners who were both adulterers many times over. I frown on adultery VERY much, as does my wife and our children, and therefore take what you insuated as insulting and uncalled for -- your saying "but that's ok isn't it" would lead others to think I would approve of adulterous behavior, and I don't -- and I've never said otherwise.!!!!!!!
The only legitimate question you asked me is where on this forum would I suggest the thread be moved -- and I don't know the answer to that. Y'all seem to have to move threads almost daily. Sometimes I can see why, sometimes I can't. I find the MTF forum the mainstay of the site and where I can learn the most, and help the most, too, (since I'm 54 and have been CDing since I was c. 4 years old). My ONLY concern was that this thread might be better somewhere else on this site -- presuming there was another place it could be placed. And why did I suggest this? Certainly not to put down Pink -- I admire her and what she's doing --that was clear. The ONLY reason I "suggested" a possible move was in consideration of the GGs -- especially the newest ones, who, in looking for understanding and edification, might see the thread, not understand it, and then run before anyone could assist them in understanding.
I don't appologize for this position b/c (a.) it was just a suggestion made out of concern, and (b.) I in NO WAY insulted or disparaged anyone, Pink included, whose activities I clearly indicated were liberating -- a positive thing!!!
I am sorry if you didn't understand what I was saying. I tried to be as clear as possible!!! I guess it is a lot like Richard Nixon used to say: "I know you heard what you thought I said, but you didn't hear what I meant."
Peace?!?!?
Barbara, while I see you are generally supportive of Pink and her posting this thread, I'm not sure I understand or agree with the fear of GG's being scared away by this.
There are a number of threads posted regularily in the MTF forum which could scare off a timid GG. Hopefully we post enough positive thoughtful stuff to keep them reading and feeling they can find help and understanding here.
Your premise that a GG might be especially freaked by Pink's postings indicates that you do think it's abnormal or extreme behaviour for CDing. If you were to ask them I bet many of the GGs coming here looking for help are thinking pretty much ALL CDing is abnormal. That's why they come here looking for help.
By being open about what the entire spectrum of CDing entails, from the men in panties to transitioning TS, INCLUSIVE of all that lies in between, we can allow the GGs to take what they need to learn and find how it applies to their own lives. There are many couples on this forum, and I don't think any one couple has the same kind of CDing experiences. Similar in many ways, but everyone of us is unique, as individuals and as couples. We should feel free to express that, keeping to forum rules and respect of each other. I think you do agree that Pink showed no disrespect to us, and she didn't break any rules (unless there is a rule about posting a bunch in a row on one thread - but that's a rule of thumb as far as I know - not a set rule)
Although our beloved Pirate Queen has a ...errr...direct :D way about her, she's right in the choice of forum to leave it in. It IS obviously a MTF issue, just one that is unusual to most (but not all as you have seen) of us.
And I personally didn't think Tamara was implying that YOU were okay with adultery. She was making a point in her own inimitable style: Rant and spank!
:p
:heehee: *runs to hide behind the couch again* :hiding:
>> Due to offensive acts by some chat members, the chatroom will be closed temporarily. Check back to see when it is reinstated.
Uh oh...Seems we have a double standard here...
This is not logical to disallow "offensive acts" on one hand and
allow, even encourage, "offensive acts" on the other.
Flame away, I am through with this thread never to return to it.
I'm moving on to happier discussions on this forum...
And I love you all dearly...:love:
Yes, I'm pretty sure you are right... oh wait a minute... actually you aren't. Those offensive acts were members on their webcams getting off.... so I beg to differ!!! Facts go a long way, how about you get yours straight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seville
Kerrianna,Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrianna
Your post really made me smile a good smile on an otherwise very hard day on a number of different fronts, and for that I thank you very much! I appreciate your take on things, and the way you express yourself! I am more than just generally supportive of Pink -- I wholeheartedl support her!!! As to "why" I felt it might be something that had the potential to scare off some GGs (and I mainly was thinking about neophytes to the site), it was, in part, a gut reaction you know, one of those things you feel but can't really explain, and also in part on the study of psychology. I think the most revealing thing in my entire post was my own revelation to what Louise had said -- it made me really think about how others (especially newcomers) view the things we say. Here you have Carin and me both getting ready to be "June Brides" thanks to our loving spouses, Louise and Val, and I had not given one thought to how that might make a newbie feel.Like Louise said, such is probably not everybody's cup of tea.
As far as Pink goes, I understand quite a bit about what she is doing and can attest to the liberation her actions will, if all requirements are met, give her. I was not offended in the least by her posts or what she is doing -- I think what she is doing can have very positive results in persons prone to that scene. I just had tis "wave" sweep over me and got to thinking about the young wife who has just found out her husband is a CD -- and this image came to mind of the husband spending hours and days and weeks trying to explain what he is and why -- and maybe even that it isn't really all that abnormal (at least it isn't to me, but the drumer is on a different beat). Then, he finally gets her to come her to see for herself the normalacy, hoping she will join in and receive edification, and BANG, the first post she sees is Pink's. Maybe I should have processed it a bit more, but what's done is done. I am, though, incredibly supportive of Pink b/c I do know the liberation, and I have seen a new aspect of some of what I do or want to do, like being a bride next month!
Perhaps I shouldn't offer up excuses, but as I have already stated, I am excessivey tired (up for the last 36 hours), and during the last two weeks have twice taken one of my children to a specialty medical clinic one state over. Maybe that is, in part, why I am so sensitive about the adultery bit. Bt, my wife and I find we both are to varous degrees. I get edgey every year when the time gets close that I first cught my first wife. I don't know why I do -- it shouldn't bother me b/c I wouldn't exchange what I have now for the first wife and all the gold in Ft, Knox!!! But every year, deja vu knocks at my door and I relive it all -- down to her telling me that since I had found out she might as well go ahead and leave -- and I cold have the children, too. Great mother, huh?!!! The interesting thing is this creeps up on me subconsciously. Well, enough of that . . .
Thanks again for your perspectives and kind words!!! You ARE appreciated!!!
Barb
I most certainly was NOT implying Barbara was ok with adultery, I was generally speaking about other posts in this forum, that are far worse than this one... which imho I think is fine... and I'm a GG, who's not always been supporting, not always been fine with everything, but even so, this thread would not have scared me in the least ;)
I'm pretty sure the adultery threads cause more problems than any other thread posted... infact, I'm absolutely sure that those type of threads scare the hell out of the GG's...
As a GG, this thread doesnt scare me IN THE LEAST!!!!
It seems as though Pink isnt out wandering around creating a menace of herself and *giving crossdressing a bad name* She is doin things enough out of her comfort zone and broadening her experiences while at the same time, allowing the public to see that there is nothing wrong with crossdressing.
Kudos Pink!!!
Nic
Barb, try to get some rest hon. :hugs: You do sound frazzled.
I think your own experience of adultery is very indicative of why so many people here take it very very seriously. It really does hurt in a very deep way, as you attest to. I hope your future is bright. :love:
Seville, not sure what 'offensive acts' you are referring to. Nothing Pink posted seemed offensive to me. Maybe some people might feel uncomfortable thinking about doing that stuff themselves, but it was her doing it, her choice. Well her choice to submit to it. :p
And some people might have felt it puts CDers in a bad light, but that's just a judgement on their part. Some folks out there would tell you that there's no CDing that is ever good, or some people would tell you that it's all good. Personal judgement IMO. Most of the people Pink has interacted with seem to have seen it as a guy on a dare rather than a committed crossdresser anyway.
I hope Pink hasn't been dissuaded from continuing to post here. It makes for fun reading if nothing else. :D
If people are offended or uninterested there are lots of other threads they can go read.
Hi all, I’ve found this one of the most interesting and entertaining threads on here for a sometime. Not just because of Pinks adventures, and good luck to her for living them, but also because of the debate that has ensued.
Having a list of tasks to work through some or all of which push an individuals boundaries is neither uncommon nor unhealthy: I have ‘dared’ myself to go driving dressed, to walk around the block, to walk around the shops: it’s just a way of goal setting and measuring achievement. Pinks tasks may not be to all our tastes but surely they fit into the category of not hurting or harming anyone else so what’s the problem?
Maybe the issue is that we take ourselves too seriously at times! Is it possible that what we see in the responses to Pinks adventures is a kind of elitism: that we find it necessary to defend the ‘good name’ of Cding? I for one try to pass, try to blend in, want to be seen as a women: others do not, others cannot, but should this exclude their efforts, their experiences, and their stories from those of us who want to be seen as more than blokes in dresses? (Sorry if I’m doing you a disservice there Pink I'm just pointing out there are many levels).
Ultimately we need to stand together, each of us doing whatever it takes to meet our own criteria for Cding, but being aware and accommodating towards others who have set and meet their own criteria. We need to be a ‘broad church’ rather than defenders of some impossible and implausible ideal, what chance is there for acceptance from the rest of the world if we can’t accept each other?
Finally to the moderators: good job girls!
Yours (off on one), Amanda x
come on girls live and let live.................
This is an excellent way of looking at things, Amanda!!! What CD hasn't at least thought of daring themselves to do different things en femme?!! How many of us have reveled in actually achieving some act (driving en femme, shopping, etc.)?!!! A great many of us have spoken of actually doing something that pushed a personal boundary. The only difference is that Pink had someone give her a whole list of things to accompish. Is this any different than my wife suggesting I take a skirt into the dressing room at the Gap and try it on? Nope! It is exactly the same thing!!! Maybe with not as much flare, but the same thing nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda Shaft
Quote:
This forum has shown me, that no two CDs are alike! and I think the Fifth Amendment would apply here. This is America, isn't it?
I'm not sure if anyone else caught this, but.... No, this is not America. This is the World Wide Web. We Americans commonly use that expression, but in a forum like this one it's the kind of thing that can cause eye-rolling by our British, Canadian, Aussie, etc. friends. Let's not forget that there's more to the world than the good old USA.
Amen.....and dont forget our european brothers and sisters here too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Diva
I'd love to try on Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders uniform?
[SIZE="3"]WOW!! I still don't see what all the commotion is about, we are all individuals and as such see things differently, but that does not give anyone the right to force their opinions on someone else. If you do not like a thread here DON"T read it. No one is forcing you to read every thread on this cite. [/SIZE]
What a wonderful thread. It is like walking down a hall of mirrors. So many reflections. Reflections of our hopes and reflections of our fears. Reflections of how we see ourselves as individuals and as a community.
Thank you Pink for giving us the opportunity to see and learn so much from your experiences.
Love,
Larissa
I found the topic *interesting* but thought it belonged more in the picture gallery since it wasn't really a discussion about the assignments but more of posting of the pictures as each assignment is accomplished.
A few days ago, somebody complained that the same things were being discussed over and over. I guess this is something different. ;)
When I first starting reading this thread I didn't think it would be as controversial as it quickly became. Probably because I used to try to get my wife to take a more dominant role in my crossdressing. First because I liked it when she participates but also I think it relieved much of the guilt I had at the time. If she made me dress up then I was "only weak and not some deviant."
Those days are long gone and I hardly ever get the 'urge to purge', nor do I feel nearly as guilty as I once did.
Eva Diva is correct, I made an incorrect assumption. George Bush and I have something in common about making incorrect assumptions. I should have said, in democratic societies freedom of speech is an essential component in maintaining their health. Members of this community, " Crossdresser.Com" should realize this is a democracy, and attempting to suppress a member's expressions of their feelings or comments is "unhealthy" and should not be allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Diva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larissa
I agree...and as a GG all I have to say is 'OH MY'. I can barely stand to wear ONE pair of pantyhose, much less 26 at a time. That is *my* idea of Dante's ninth level of hell. :p