Question to CDs only, from Anonymous GG

I didn't have the time or inclination to read through seven pages of comments. I did read many.

Forty years ago when the women's movement was just starting out the young woman sitting across from me in a professional environment made a similar comment. Her complaint or observation was our female clients were tied down in the drudgery of changing diapers and raising kids. She lamented how great the husbands and boyfriends of those young women had it. I looked at her in amazement and asked what the heck was so stimulating for a guy to stand in a factory and bang out pots and pans all day for minimum wage? The guys worked in hot and dirty factories and in hazardous conditions.

Fast forward forty years and women are filling the work places. There are more women enrolled in college than guys. The military is a viable career option. The only thing I cannot do is give birth to a child. As a father and husband I assisted in all the child rearing. I did my share of the domestic chores without complaint. I gave my wife breaks from the drudgery of being home all day with the kids.

Now, as a retiree I am the stay at home homemaker. I do the domestic chores. I love to bake and cook. I tend the garden. The only thing different is I like to do those chores in a dress, a la June Cleaver or Harriet Nelson. This morning I stopped for a bite to eat and sat across from a military couple, man and woman, each dress in army utility fatigues. Equality!

I know what it takes to be a woman because there is no difference between a man and woman after that kid is born- or there shouldn't. And, if a GG is married to a guy who treats you like garbage-get a new guy.

PS: Somehow I wonder if it was customary for guys to wear dresses and gals to wear pants would guys cross dress in pants and women would don dresses once in a while???

I'm going to add my two cents before reading ALL of these comments ....at the risk of missing something important. But I'm willing to bet, that my point of view, is NOT covered in these seven pages .... confirming how different we all are sometimes, as some of you have noted.

My main point: You're right. I'm not really interested in the reality of what it means to be a woman, other than to be sympathetic and empathetic with the important females in my life and to be a generally decent human being. But my obsession and my fantasy -- which belongs to me -- is the myth of the super-sexy, super-girly girl with the high heels, the stockings, the panties, the garter belt, the corset, the bra, the earings, the big hair, the alluring fragrance, the long nails, the long lashes, the red pouty lips, too much mascara, the long nails .... she's wearing leather AND lace ....she's objectified and loves it ..... I want her and I want to be her, and to experience being the focus of so much attention and affection and desire ......

..... and yes, I know it is all (or mostly) male bullshit ..... that it can be demeaning and dehumanizing if taken too seriously ..... and that I'll never really be able to pull it off ..... and if I did .... I might not even enjoy it. It's just a fantasy. An escape. And it makes me feel good. And sometimes I almost get close.

I admire, respect & adore women to no end. This world would not be worth living in if it weren't for women. I can never understand them, only guess. Aww..that's precious to me though...a constant 'tension' that drives the swirling vortex of yin/yang in an ever ascending or sometimes decending spiral depending on the couple, their personalities, the balance of their need, their compatibility & the chemistry of their desire.

I am not so naieve to think for a moment I can 'be' a woman nor do I feel a need to indulge the feminine part that indwells in me when involved with a woman whom I am attracted to, for whatever reasons. Though there's always some physical component to attraction it's not always primarily for 'looks' that I fall for a girl.

Indulging the feminine side of my mind is a kind of escape, a way of switching over to another mode of seeing, feeling, experiencing and doing thats of value...especially when my 'guy side' is really fc'n up making bad decisions or generally 'misbehaving'. LOL... But only when I'm not involved in a GG relationship cause when I am, that just doesn't happen. It's like...I become my own b*tch in lieu of a GG-relationship...which yea definitely has a sexual aspect to it. In fact if it didn't it would be valuless.

So while I certainly AM much more feminine when voluntarily allowing this side of me to surface and expand, it is not an attempt to mimic a real GG woman. I am not enthralled with clothes and all the particulars of feminine expression, though I find myself involved with it all. But the clothing, makeup, altered voice & behavior as well as altered preference in music, movies & magazines simply happen automatically on their own accord w/o much forethought. All of this is the natural sequelae that follows from a male to female transition in mental state that takes over at times...or more correctly....when the feminine mind extant in me is allowed to surface, since I am normally dominated by the male in me. But when this M2F transition unfolds, the change in manner of thinking & feeling becomes 1st principle to changes in outward appearance and behavior. Um...yea.

I've never quite understood the exagerrated interest on clothing and overriding drive to 'pass' and all that. But...Everyones life is special, valuable and bright. There are many reasons and many types of ppl with differeng backgrounds & needs. All of them just as valid as the next. Nothing to get ones panties in a bunch about, I'd say :battingeyelashes: *giggles*

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why?

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Maybe I've become jaded from spending too much time amidst what passes for discourse in other parts of the Web, but I don't recall seeing anything in this thread that I would have called hostile. Defensive, maybe.

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone. It seems like she asked a reasonable question, certainly no worse than many I've read here over the years, so why the anger? Not just hostility at the original question, but hostility toward each other. Why can there not be a discussion, how ever uncomfortable or irritating with out hostility? If even WE, people who claim to be open minded and open hearted, can't have a discussion of pretty much ANY topic without getting hostile, then the world has no hope.

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(Substituting "defensive" for "hostile" ....)
There's a "rhinoceros in the living room" (one of those things everyone sees but no one ever talks about) that I think plays a role.

All of us -- GM and GF alike, CD, TS, and average Joe alike -- have grown up conditioned by the message that for men to do stuff like what CDs do -- wearing women's clothes, or doing pretty much anything that is "feminine" -- is weird, shameful, etc. And no matter what we learn or do, we can never entirely rid ourselves of that message or its effects.

When we CDs hear something (regardless from whom) that triggers that message in our heads, we'll hear an attack, whether or not one was actually intended. In fact, we may completely mishear the message. (BTW, defensiveness and mishearing aren't restricted to CDs or CDing -- it happens everywhere.) It takes a lot of practicing examining oneself to learn to distinguish between really being attacked and just feeling defensive.

I think those messages also mess up the GFs in our lives. It means that they'll sometimes hear that voice that says that what CDs do is weird, shameful, etc., and they'll sometimes hear stuff CDs say as an attack, even when we don't mean it that way, or at least don't want to mean it that way.

Is this a recipe for miscommunication, or what?

Now throw in the usual impediments to communication, and the myriad additional ways people find to misunderstand one another (and take offense) on the WWW, and it's a wonder we aren't all running around murdering one another with axes all the time.

Hmmmmm ...... Asche, it seems like you're attacking us for acting defensive, and I don't think we're being defensive at all. It's just that nobody understands us and is always attacking us. Or did I mis-hear you? LOL. Good points, all. But couldn't resist.

I have seen that this thread is looooooooong, i hope indo notbsound naive or stupid. Indo not want to be a woman, sometimes I would love to look like a pretty one and most of the times I like to wearnsome of the items of clothing that are tagged " for women only"
My family is dominated by women and I think I have a fairly goodnidea of the problems that women have that we (males) dont. Inreally do not want any of them and I respect the women in my life for the productive way in which they live. I would never dream to replace them, just to borrow some of their clothes!!

I don't think I know what it takes to be a woman, and I don't want to become a woman, but I do feel somewhat androgynous or two-spirited or whatever you want to call it. But in the end, if I have to choose, I am a guy who CDs and likes to play with gender a bit...

To the OP; (well, what ReineD posted on behalf of the OP);

Do I know what it takes to be a woman? No. Honestly, I don't care what it takes to be a woman. I'm quite content exploring myself, finding out what it takes to be me. That includes wearing clothes, shoes, makeup, and etc. that are normally associated with women. I think it very important that all transgender people embrace themselves. That includes embracing aspects of ourselves people normally associated with women. However in this case it's things associated with being transgender.

Many transgender people enjoy clothes. That doesn't make it a slumber party. There's plenty of non-transgender people who enjoy clothes too. Doesn't make it a slumber party either.

I'm not trying to imitate anyone. I would be heartily annoyed with myself if I did. I am no more attempting to imitate someone by wearing what I am wearing now than any woman or man is in putting on the clothes they chose to put on today.

Is the grass greener on the other side? I can say with a fair bit of certainty that self acceptance as a transgender person most emphatically is greener than self denial, self condemnation, and self repressing.

I'd like to share a link I think is apropo to the discussion (you have scroll down slightly to "the great cross dressing divide")...http://www.aslipofagirl.net/search/label/Crossdressing

Do I know what it takes to be a woman. No I cant say that I do. I do admire women and the things that they do. The clothes are more than just admiration though. It something I really enjoy doing. I have for a very long time. Unless something drastically changes. I have no intentions of every trying to become a woman. I cant really say the grass is greener on either side. Just different .. People like different sometimes.

O.K.I just read so many responses to this post that I almost forgot the main question.No I do not know what it takes to be a woman and there is no way I can ever know.I was born a male and I do things that come naturaly to me for what ever reason be it nature or nurture I dress in the trapings of the female gender.Not to live as a female but to satisfy some unknown urge that I believe I was born with.If I go to the full extent of total dressing it is what feels natural and fulfilling to me.Yes at one point I guess I wondered what it would be like to have the attributes of the female form,but with 3 sisters (older)I know first hand what the draw backs can be.As far as the forum questions and responses go I believe it is just a way of knowing and reinforcing the fact that we (CDers)are not alone and it can be fun to think out of our male bonds.As a side note I have found that my "feminizing",i.e.shaved body,legs,underarms,long hair,etc...help to keep my yin and yan in line so that I am a more complete HUMAN BEING.I might ad that if you knew what my profession was you would not think twice ,and in some ways I must "dress-up" for the part to fulfill that aspect of my being.