I was the prettiest girl in the world until...

I am so surprised that such treatment to u would happen in the very liberal Seattle area. I recently moved from there, after 29 yrs. That was awful!! Sadly, discrimination against males is still very strong. You were in drab, as a guy, and they considered you a pervert, or predator. That is blatant discrimination, and I really feel for you. I would be devastated also, if it happened to me. Treated like a criminal. In Seattle area, at that?! Emotionally, i would also be devastated. I feel for you.

Climb down from that tree Louise and read the OP. She was not in drab. Is she now a pervert?

I received a friend request on fb today from someone who says that they are just starting at Ross and asking for more detail about the incident - presumably because of my posts on their fb page - I was going to give the gist of the story, but then thought I'd ask peoples opinion on here first. She seemed to think the incident might have happened to me, so I have sent the following reply for now

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The incident didn't happen to me but a transsexual person with whom I correspond. As I don't know the current legal situation, I'm not sure I can tell you much more than has already been said at this stage.

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So what does everyone think? More importantly, what do you think, Christy?

So sorry this happened to you... could have been any of us. They´re the ones who should be ashamed of their intolerance, not you....

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

I received a friend request on fb today from someone who says that they are just starting at Ross and asking for more detail about the incident - presumably because of my posts on their fb page - I was going to give the gist of the story, but then thought I'd ask peoples opinion on here first. She seemed to think the incident might have happened to me, so I have sent the following reply for now

So what does everyone think? More importantly, what do you think, Christy?

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I don't see any harm in sharing this story. If Ross truly has an inclusive policy, you would think it would be something they shared during the new hire orientation. The absolute best outcome from this situation for me would be that noone ever (never, ever) has to feel like I did walking out of that store. If this person can affect that positively, we are all better off.

Did I answer your question or go off into a different direction?

When registering a complaint about a store, just make sure to inclued the NAME of the person who was so insensitive..

Since dressing rooms are "single occupancy" unlike restrooms, I know of no state or federal code restricting the usage..

You may have rights to compensation under civil action.. Contact a civil rights atty locally..

lots of luck
Hugs
Yolanda

OK, so I spoke with an attorney tonight and she recommended that I try and make contact with Ross again before doing anything else. She did recommend to me that I have an idea of what I want out of this issue before I make contact. Since what I want is total global acceptance of all things TG, I am not sure that will do me any good seeking this lofty goal from Ross.

I am asking all of you who have been so loving and supportive of me during this issue to help me decide what a good outcome would be for us. I am not looking for monetary gain so recommendations to sue their shirts (or skirts) off while welcome don't really present an option that all of us can gain from. Ultimately, this is our fight that I am presenting and would like your input as to what would be a good end point from Ross for us.

Consequently, I do believe the state of Washington has maximum damages for stuff like this so without permanent mental or physical damage that affects future earnings, any monetary gain wouldn't even get their shirts (or skirts) off. :)

I've been in that very store and shopped myself I used to be stationed at ft Lewis and lived in milton prior to moving. I would do a huge complaint letter and take action that is bs and they are idiots not to mention u are a customer it doesn't matter what u buy or try on! Do not blame yourself over some small minded people.

Sorry that made me mad hearing that...

One realistic goal is an advert in a Lynnwood paper stating that Ross supports the transgender community and will actively welcome them as customers. This to be dispalyed in their stores for (say) at least 14 days.

Meanwhile back on facebook, I have just added something to their wall

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The management might think that their wishy-washy response to the protests about discrimination in their Lynnwood store was sufficient - we don't

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Christy, I'm very late to this thread, but I just want to say how happy I am that you're a member here and that you had a place to come to in your hour of need.

I'm so very sorry for what you went through, and I think you're handling all of this with a lot of grace, just like a true lady. :)

I like Rianna's suggestion above. :hugs:

:iagree: with Rianna and ReineD


Danni

You may not be looking for a monetary gain but Ross is surely looking to prevent a monetary loss. Remember that a business will continue it's practices until said practices effect the bottom line, that is, until it costs the company money. Hit them where it hurts. Make them pay. If not to you then make them donate money to a trans or LGBT charity.

I opt for both the public apology through the local paper as well as like the posting in a PUBLIC area of all stores that they are GLBT friendly as well as a sizable donation to a trans or LGBT charity or wutever. Perhaps this was like meant to be and you were also meant, albeit involuntarily, to be the one to bring public awareness of the transgender community to the world of business. This whole incident is like a golden opportunity in light of how much agony we, through you, as only one little community on a website have been able to inflict on corporate America or wutever based on the amount of publicity this has generated and damage control done by Ross. If this were handled right, any future dealings of this nature would have like a precedent on the next case.

I wish I could give you a big hug and make you feel better. I'm sure everyone on this site has worried about this, and it happened you ;( When you've collected your thoughts, you should consider contacting their main office and complain. They may have rules about men in the ladies dressing room, but it could have been handled with some discresion instead of making a scene! You are who you are and should feel proud that you are brave enough to go into the world as a woman. "It takes a real man to wear a skirt" :)

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Originally Posted by Christy_M

OK, so I spoke with an attorney tonight and she recommended that I try and make contact with Ross again before doing anything else. She did recommend to me that I have an idea of what I want out of this issue before I make contact. Since what I want is total global acceptance of all things TG, I am not sure that will do me any good seeking this lofty goal from Ross.

I am asking all of you who have been so loving and supportive of me during this issue to help me decide what a good outcome would be for us. I am not looking for monetary gain so recommendations to sue their shirts (or skirts) off while welcome don't really present an option that all of us can gain from. Ultimately, this is our fight that I am presenting and would like your input as to what would be a good end point from Ross for us.

Consequently, I do believe the state of Washington has maximum damages for stuff like this so without permanent mental or physical damage that affects future earnings, any monetary gain wouldn't even get their shirts (or skirts) off. :)

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Christy,

Some people go through life with the hopes of making a living suing others for their mistakes. I am not one of those people and I don't think you are either. Ask your attorney for suggestions. To start with, actual expenses legal fees, court costs, counselling, etc. You have suffered mentally, you shouldn't suffer financially. You should be paid for mental anguish, perhaps a couple thousand dollars or so.

I think what you really want is to make sure they take this issue seriously and that it doesn't happen again. Adds in the local papers stating that they will not discriminate against crossdressers and transgendered people would be a start. Signs posted in the dressing room area or on the doors of the dressing rooms would be appropriate. Not just at the local store, but at all the Ross stores. Also, they should commit to a formal sensitivity training program for all employees and especially management.

My guess is that Ross didn't want this to happen, that it was a (poor) decision of a single employee. They don't need to be put out of business, but they do need to take this seriously. :hugs:

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Originally Posted by Christy_M

I am asking all of you who have been so loving and supportive of me during this issue to help me decide what a good outcome would be for us.

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To me, a very important underlying issue here is that Ross, while taking internal action towards their employees following this incident, has issued no apology to you in any respect nor attempted to make any amends. That is incorrigible behavior from my chair. I understand why they're not; they're afraid of legal implications of doing so. But, at a minimum I would demand that.

Second, as others have stated requesting they make a sizable (like $25k or more) donation to a transgender support group of your choosing would be a nice outcome as well.

Third, despite multiple inquiries on my part, they've failed to produce the inclusive policy they supposedly have with regards to customers. I would request that such a policy be presented to you, and if it in fact doesn't exist that they create it and post it on their employee relations noticeboard, which I'm sure they have in every store (where they post minimum wage signs, etc).

Fourth, that they modify their training system to include education regarding LGBT issues that may happen from time to time in their store, how employees should respond, and how management should seek to resolve any issues that arise. It's blatantly obvious from their responses that such training does not exist. The lack of this training WILL cause this situation to happen again, and again, and again. If they're serious about being inclusive, then they can start training their employees to be so.

Christy,
I have been following this thread since the original posting. I am so proud of you. I often shop at Ross stores around the Puget Sound, in drab. Your experience would have been my worst nightmare. I don't know how I would have handled it, but I think you have shown remarkable inner strength and grace. If Ross has to reinvigorate their acceptance policies, and other stores hear the story, then you have won a great victory for all of us .:hugs:

Jaydee

Christy,

I don't have any more to add than anyone here has said about what you should ask of Ross but just affirming the advice about a genuine apology to you, disclosure of an official inclusion/non-discrimination policy, at least. I would think that the attorney might want to hear what you decide about what you want from this (after the feedback you've been seeking), and help you formulate some way of requesting this in an effective way-but I'm no attorney. Best of luck and thoughts and prayers are with you.

Olivia

Christy,
I understand your need for privacy, however I would love to see this evolve into education of all peoples, not just Ross.
For instance, how many in the general public know this Saturday , November 20th is national rememberance day for GLBT people who have been killed [ murdered] for being who they are ? I'd like to see a full page posting of the names and circumstances of these victims, in the Seattle Times and on television.
I'd love to see the Washington State Law against GLBT discrimination posted in all public places and on Buses
in the Seattle transit center and in the Seattle Times.
I'd love to see an education program, documentary,AND / or commercials [ prime time ] on antidiscrimination

All this takes Money, That's where Ross comes in.

Anyone care to add to this ?
Presh GG

Go get 'em, Christy. Corporations need to know the law will be enforced, whether by the government or by civil suits.

Presh has some good ideas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christy_M

OK, so I spoke with an attorney tonight and she recommended that I try and make contact with Ross again before doing anything else. She did recommend to me that I have an idea of what I want out of this issue before I make contact. Since what I want is total global acceptance of all things TG, I am not sure that will do me any good seeking this lofty goal from Ross.

I am asking all of you who have been so loving and supportive of me during this issue to help me decide what a good outcome would be for us. I am not looking for monetary gain so recommendations to sue their shirts (or skirts) off while welcome don't really present an option that all of us can gain from. Ultimately, this is our fight that I am presenting and would like your input as to what would be a good end point from Ross for us.

Consequently, I do believe the state of Washington has maximum damages for stuff like this so without permanent mental or physical damage that affects future earnings, any monetary gain wouldn't even get their shirts (or skirts) off. :)

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Don't worry about the maximum damages. I think the idea of making them contribute to an organization that opposes this kind of behavior is a good one, and it's pretty normal for the members of the class suing to get near nothing and the lawyers to get millions. In most of these cases there is no limit to legal fees, as those who write the laws and vote on them are attorneys. This should provide Ross with a "sit up and take notice".You might want monetary damages for yourself; although the lawyers will do most of the heavy lifting, this will still take up your time & energy.

I know why the manager was harsh - because they didn't want a man in a dress in the ladies dressing room. I pass very well and when I used Ross's ladies dressing room I sometimes went out in the mirror and I would pass ladies who were shirtless / just their bra showing / or sometimes a boob hanging out. Surely they don't want a man to see this.

So the best thing to do when trying out women's fitting rooms is to make sure you pass nearly 100%

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Originally Posted by KateSpade83

I know why the manager was harsh - because they didn't want a man in a dress in the ladies dressing room.

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I think you are overlooking a couple of points here:

1 Christy was taken to that changing room by a member of staff.

2 The so-called manager (who apparently was not an actual manager) had not seen Christy close enough to know how well she passed.

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Originally Posted by Christy_M

...to sue their shirts (or skirts) off while welcome don't really present an option that all of us can gain from.

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There are three possibilities in my view. Firstly, as Rhianna says, there should be a commitment by Ross to support the Transgendered communities in the areas in which they have stores. Secondly, they should take a visible step in their diversity training. Thirdly, they should be asked to make a donation/contribution to some highly visible transgender charitable organization like PFLAG. This way there is no personal gain but a lot of things happening for the whole community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KateSpade83

I know why the manager was harsh - because they didn't want a man in a dress in the ladies dressing room. I pass very well and when I used Ross's ladies dressing room I sometimes went out in the mirror and I would pass ladies who were shirtless / just their bra showing / or sometimes a boob hanging out. Surely they don't want a man to see this.

So the best thing to do when trying out women's fitting rooms is to make sure you pass nearly 100%

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With due respect,if you are presenting as a female,There shouldn't be a problem if you use female changing facilities,AS long as you respect others privacy,and the etiquette involved,also I would think most rooms will have Internal Mirrors.

If only way we should go in dressed is when we pass 100%,then am afraid there wont be many of us getting in

:hugs:Sophie