We are not crossdressers.....and we get fed up of being told we are

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Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter

Lucy,

I'm sorry I have to correct YOU, As a SHELLBACK who has crossed the equator in the Grand Tradition of the Navy, The ceramony you speak of has no Crossdressers in it, what they have are actors portraying Neptune and his court, which has mermaids in it. I don't think acting and crossdressing are the same thing. Although after six months at sea those burly mermaids did look pretty good.

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I really don't know or care to be honest never was in the navy .It was a point however and yeah at one time from what I have been told by friends in the Navy ..They did xdress , but like I said I was never in the Navy..

My point was in saying someone who is crossdressing doesn't always make them a crossdresser . How Shanagans put it to me was crossdressers verses my quote as crossdressing .. I will try and make it plain and as simple as I can.

Crossdresser( my life) someone who emulates the opposite sex ( go to Shanagans long post for more info on refering to me saying crossdressing as a term.)

Crossdressing ( what I said) ..Notice the I N G after dress.. This often refers to a motion in present form .. Example I am Crossdressing right now..

Crossdresser .. Notice the E R after dress .. This often refers to the past ..Example on who has crossdressed before.. Oh you wore a dress before? ,never knew you was a crossdresser.

Two different meanings same word..So go back and read my original post me saying CROSSDRESSING and then re read how it was translated to crossdresser in Shanagans. Not a big deal but if you are to be little me use what I said and not add a twist to it..

The English language , see how abused and confussing it can be..? But I will be shot down again so why waste my time ? I tried to explain my quote by what I have been told from friends in the Navy something I have never done thanks for the correction.. That is why I thought the title of this should have been different..

Could be a mistake not a big deal have fun... :D

Anyone who self-identifies as a crossdresser is not cisgender. A cisgender person would not self-identify as a crossdresser and would not engage in any significant crossdressing activity.

Anyone who self-identifies as a crossdresser and justifies or defends his behavior by minimizing its personal significance is contradicting himself. If crossdressing is so impersonal and not about self-definition then why bother labeling yourself and labeling other people? After all, it’s all about the clothes and not about you (or other people), right? It’s just a trivial activity that you can’t stop doing and can’t stop talking about in a nonsensical manner.

Some of the manly girlymen on this site are so funny. They should try to sell their false claims to a real manly man once and see how that conversation ends.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

To correct you again..No crossdressing is a term used under the Gender umbrella for Trangender.. Many naval folks will concur to this as they pass over the equater they CROSSDRESS!! This does not make them Transgender thank you very much just as your glass maybe half empty mine is always half full agree to disagree..!! i NEVER said pants although known only in the past as a male attire only just as t shirts made specifically for women was considered crossdressing btw,,... So once again if you wear a shirt made for a man you would be xdressing do not put words in my mouth other than that.. At one time women where socially not permitted to wear jeans don't forget!!

I think I see where we are not seeing eye to eye on this term ..A crossdresser is someone who likes wearing clothing meant for the other sex ..Crossdressing is an act of wearing clothes of the opposite sex..

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Ehh...you didn't really correct me. Nice try though. I don't really care what naval men say about crossdressing...last time I checked they didn't have a degree in gender issues.

Also, at one point of time, women weren't allowed to vote. What does the past have to do with anything? The point is that women have been wearing pants and other various articles of formally mens' attire for quite a while. Long enough that when people say, "Oh but like going on 70 years ago it wasn't the norm and women wore dresses. So, basically since you started off on dresses and switched to pants; thus, you're all crossdressers." It just makes no sense.

I guarantee that when I put on a pair of boxers to go to sleep in, it means quite a bit different than 99% of other people who would be considered crossdressers. Why? Because I'm not a crossdresser for all of the reasons that a gender therapist would laugh at the idea of me waltzing into their office proclaiming to be one.

What is all of this about crossdressing versus crossdresser? The English language has various endings for words to avoid confusion of descriptions? Wouldn't a crossdresser be crossdressing and that's the point of it all?

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Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit

Last time I checked Hirschfeld's book was only widely available in the German..wonder if anyone's done a new translation that's easier to get a hold of. Always have wanted to read it. You are very knowledgeable...I bet most of the transfolk here have never even heard of Hirschfeld.

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To be honest I haven't read his book. There was a history on him in a few books that I've read in my classes and excerpts from his writings. He was definitely a man before his time. But, I think transpeople should know the pioneer...hopefully...doubtfully?

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Originally Posted by JodyCD

This whole comment is just awesome! I thought I was the only one that payed attention in that class!

To the 1930's comment, They would have to be thinking pre-1930's. After all, they are insinuating that pants aren't an appropriate garment for women.

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Haha yes, I suppose women have been wearing pants for quite some time now. Although, I actually do not know the exact date when women actually were like, "Oh my God, I can't get any work done in a dress." Maybe WWII? I'm uncertain. But, I was thinking while I was at work today while I was carrying around dogs and splashing my lab coat in a number of bodily fluids how much I loved scrubs. If I felt obligated to wear a dress, I'd probably cry.

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Originally Posted by Shananigans

Ehh...you didn't really correct me. Nice try though. I don't really care what naval men say about crossdressing...last time I checked they didn't have a degree in gender issues.

Also, at one point of time, women weren't allowed to vote. What does the past have to do with anything? The point is that women have been wearing pants and other various articles of formally mens' attire for quite a while. Long enough that when people say, "Oh but like going on 70 years ago it wasn't the norm and women wore pants. So, basically since you started off and switched to pants, you're all crossdressers." It just makes no sense.

I guarantee that when I put on a pair of boxers to go to sleep in, it means quite a bit different than 99% of other people who would be considered crossdressers. Why? Because I'm not a crossdresser for all of the reasons that a gender therapist would laugh at the idea of me waltzing into their office proclaiming to be one.

What is all of this about crossdressing versus crossdresser? The English language has various endings for words to avoid confusion of descriptions? Wouldn't a crossdresser be crossdressing and that's the point of it all?



To be honest I haven't read his book. There was a history on him in a few books that I've read in my classes and excerpts from his writings. He was definitely a man before his time. But, I think transpeople should know the pioneer...hopefully...doubtfully?



Haha yes, I suppose women have been wearing pants for quite some time now. Although, I actually do not know the exact date when women actually were like, "Oh my God, I can't get any work done in a dress." Maybe WWII? I'm uncertain. But, I was thinking while I was at work today while I was carrying around dogs and splashing my lab coat in a number of bodily fluids how much I loved scrubs. If I felt obligated to wear a dress, I'd probably cry.

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Yes I did correct you ..Notice I said crossdressing to start your whole rampage about crossdressers, big difference reread what I wrote you will see. I can careless what any therapist says not my deal and they are all full of crap anyways,..
I just had to correct what I wrote and how you re worded it nothing personal ..Have a nice night.. One more thing ..Years ago my wife and I wore the same size Levis , she always wore mine would that make her a crossdresser she also always wore my shirts..

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

Yes I did correct you ..Notice I said crossdressing to start your whole rampage about crossdressers, big difference reread what I wrote you will see. I can careless what any therapist says not my deal and they are all full of crap anyways,..
I just had to correct what I wrote and how you re worded it nothing personal ..Have a nice night..

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There's no "me" to correct, just people with their PhDs in gender therapy and see patients. Clearly, they are full of crap because they help so many people every day with the things that have been troubling them...things that they can't even tell their families about. Yep, clearly they are all a bunch of quacks. It must be all of the experience with a number of diverse people that loads them up to full of crap. But, because you are a single CD in the world, you are the spoken law. I just don't buy it. I just don't understand the need to lump everyone as a CD by whatever weird terms that the people on here who are arguing this are using. Is it that you need justification for what you are doing?'

I've reread your post 3 times and they still don't make one bit of intuitive sense. Adding an -ing to a word does not take away the fact that is descriptive of the word crossdresser. I still have no idea what this even has to do with anything as far as either of our comments are concerned.

But, we'll see...I'll email Dr. Bruess tonight and see what he comes up with on the whole "all women are crossdressers" thing. He'll either clap his hands together and say that there will be sudden spike in the number of jobs for gender therapists or laugh at me like I'm laughing at this thread.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

Yes I did correct you ..Notice I said crossdressing to start your whole rampage about crossdressers, big difference reread what I wrote you will see. I can careless what any therapist says not my deal and they are all full of crap anyways,..

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This comment, and your "not caring" about being wrong about the Sailors, leads me to believe you simply minimize anything that contradicts your own idea. Thus can I surmise that it's pointless to point out your errors in thought? It seems more of an "I'm right, your wrong" sort of tact your taking, (which seems peculiar since you are arguing from a technicality standpoint.)

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=Shananigans
But, we'll see...I'll email Dr. Bruess tonight and see what he comes up with on the whole "all women are crossdressers" thing. He'll either clap his hands together and say that there will be sudden spike in the number of jobs for gender therapists or laugh at me like I'm laughing at this thread.

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Perhaps I should specialize in mental health??

Jody really don't give two turds what you think either..

SHANANIGANS.. You didn't get what I was saying and placed some stupid Book theroy over crossdressing ..I know what a crossdresser is HELLO!!! Like I suggested about my wife wearing my jeans that were made for men ,Does that make her a crossdresser? Yes would be the answer .. Did she do it to get any sexual Gradification ? No.. Did she do it to emulate a male ? No ..But did she crossdress? Yes!! See how it can be mis understood ? Thats all I am saying ..She also has to buy mens tennis shoes because her feet are to big , does that make her a crossdresser ?

The word crossdresser can have more meanings than one .. Cross meaning opposite dresser meaning putting on clothes or where you keep your clothes ( you pick another multi meaning word) .. So if you are a female that wear male t shirts or jeans or shoes you are in fact a crossdresser not meaning always the term use in the transgender field.. That simple..

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella

Jody really don't give two turds what you think either...

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Thanks for exemplifying my point.

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Originally Posted by JodyCD

Thanks for exemplifying my point.

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No problem. I always point out pointless opinions :)

I don't believe women who wear pants are crossdressers, these days pants are unisexwomen's pants are actually made differently and can be designed to show off their curves. WHat I will say is women who first wore pants when it was expected only men wore pants, and women wore skirts/dresses were crossdressers, but even then not totally. yes they were wearing men's pants but they weren't trying to pass as men, they weren't saying they were men in women's bodies or anything like that. it was the seeds of feminism, women wore pants to make a statement today it's just something to wear, with several style to choose from.

regardless I'm sure it was just as hard for those women to wear pants as it is for a man today to wear a skirt or dress. but you know something it's people that push these boundaries that keep society changing it's views on what is men's clothing and what is women's clothing. I hope what I said makes sense and didn't offend anyone.

"Deny yourself! You must deny yourself! That is the song that never ends."
-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

This quote reminds me of this thread. The denial and minimization of crossdressing leads this to be a futile attempt. That denial runs deep, and critical thinking is not a common attribute among people. No matter how much we may wish it were as simple as the clothes, it is not, nor will it ever be. Clearly many of us are unwilling to see that, instead many will argue a semantic argument over a textbook definition and cling to that notion that, "they are okay, everybody does it!" Irony....


On a side note I blame Helen Boyd for this debate, for repeatedly mentioning the concept that "all women are crossdressers" in her book, "My Husband Betty."

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No matter how much we may wish it were as simple as the clothes, it is not, nor will it ever be

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speak for yourself Jody. It IS all about the clothing AND styles for me. I do not want to be a woman. I am male, or a mix of the two. I am not in denial, I am me. These days women wearing clothing that WAS male only is fully accepted.

If they would not be crossdressing, then in my illustration post I am not crossdressing. Every item I have on was made for or marketed toward men, yet it is very feminine looking, merely because of the style. At another male fashion freedom site, that outfit was actually looked at as kinda masculine. A musketeer look someone said, which I was astonished at cause I could not image fighting with swords in that get up :P Ironically on this forum I am said to be crossdressing.

The thread I refer to is the "and illustration part deux" in the pics section.

Oh...and boxer shorts were only for men until very recently. It really should not matter anyway. I just want to have the term "pervert" to go away. Frankly I wish the term crossdresser would go away too. It is now almost entirely one sided and usually used in a derisive manner.

Thank you all for your contributions this thread will be closed because there has been ample time to express yourself and the current posts are irrelevant. Thank you all for your responses... please remember we are a family here. Please take the time to know the person you are taking to task.