Autogynephilia, anybody?

I came across this term in Helen Boyd's book a while back, and was intrigued because it was close (though not right on target) to what I feel about my CDing. For those not familiar, it means being turned on by either the idea of having a woman's body or by the idea of being a woman.
I don't see it discussed on this forum and I was wondering why. Was it done to death years ago or is it still too new to be in common circulation?
It's not an explanation for CDing, but it's an idea of what our motivation might be. And it's distinct from the fetish CDer, who is basically turned on by the clothes themselves.

I've only seen the word 'autogynephilia' used to categorize a type of transsexual, not crossdressers with a fetish. Even though I'm not too sure about the whole theory because he says the types are autogynephilia and homosexual ts, and we all know that gender and sexual preference are different.

The term isn't used because it is generally understood to be demeaning and derogatory. Part of that is included in the way you describe autogynephilia, reduces the experience of anyone with a gender identity issue as a sexual deviant. Part of that has to do with the political bias of the terms originator... though I don't remember all of the details. Part of it has to do with the diagnostic connotation behind "fill-in-the-blank-a-phillia."

All together it isn't exactly a term that is held in high regard among the CD/TG/TS community.

Autogynephilia was discredited, wrongly in my opinion, years ago because the rest of the sexual-psycological community ostracized Ray Blanchard, the originator of the theory, for bringing forth an idea that flew in the face of accepted norms when it came to transexualism. There is a fallacy that one either is, or is not, a transexual. Room is not made for those of us who fit into a vast grey area where we experience a lot of transexual tendencies, but do not opt to go the whole nine yards and get sex changes. I am really quite sure that many transexuals relate to the idea of autogynephilia. But many crossdressers, who may well have transexual tendencies, also fall into this category. It is not exclusive to transexuals. I think any open discussion of the condition is valid, and in my opinion, welcome. I think that a great many of us have long fantasized about actually having female genetalia, and many more who have and will not admit it.

All it takes to prove the theory is one person who takes a look at this idea, and says, "Hey, that describes me!" So if you ask me, it's completely valid.

Ruth the term is used for people wanting to be the other sex. Crossdressers want to be with the other sex, wear the clothing of the other sex, and certainly get people to think we are the other sex (to pass).

there's a great blog that delves deeper into this subject:
http://autogynephiliac.blogspot.com

I believe the attributes that this term has tied to it are important (since I find many of them describe me). Unfortunately, it has horrible stigma tied to it in the transgender community.

Hi Ruth - I am reading Helen Boyds book at the moment and could not get my head round that word Autogynephilia either. We all know our own feelings and I dare say some girls are in turmoil over the wish to transition, but only they can decide. Great forum idea though !!!!

Here's an article by Anne Lawrence, M.D., Ph.D. about it:
http://www.annelawrence.com/publicat...del_of_GID.pdf

Here's an overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogynephilia

Others whom I also respect (Lynn Conway, Ph.D.) are completely opposed to the idea of autogynephilia.
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/

I don't understand why highly educated women with transsexual history cannot at least agree to disagree on this subject.

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Originally Posted by jo_ann

there's a great blog that delves deeper into this subject:
http://autogynephiliac.blogspot.com

I believe the attributes that this term has tied to it are important (since I find many of them describe me). Unfortunately, it has horrible stigma tied to it in the transgender community.

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Goodness!

http://autogynephiliac.blogspot.com

This is an outstanding blog! I have learned much here, but it is rare for me to get so much out of one source. Thank you so much for your contribution!

Meghan

Not really for me, I think, I like crossdressing but, I'm not really turned on by the thought of dressing or being a woman, to be honest it's something to relax at the end of the day for me, like an escape.

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Originally Posted by Hope

Part of it has to do with the diagnostic connotation behind "fill-in-the-blank-a-phillia."

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Excuse me! Mind your mouth, mister. There are some of us here who have fillintheblankophilia, and we do not appreciate your tone. :D


Anyway...


Inquiring minds want to know: why can't I just be an executive transvestite, without people in white lab coats inventing excuses for me? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and other times it's a... well... sometimes a dress is just a dress. :straightface:

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Originally Posted by Ruth

It's not an explanation for CDing, but it's an idea of what our motivation might be. And it's distinct from the fetish CDer, who is basically turned on by the clothes themselves.

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Ruth, where did u get the idea that fetish CDs r, "---basically turned on by the clothes themselves"?:eek:

The more I can create an illusion of being a REAL female, the more exciting the dressing experience! :D

Sometimes the clothes DO feel arousing! But, for me, they're usually just the icing on the cake!:straightface:

I have NEVER experiencing anything as stimulating in my CD life, as seeing myself appearing to be a naked, or near naked, female in the mirror!:o

The danger of being an autogynephiliac, is a bit like losing track of reality, for me! :sad:
Apparently, Sherry is more attractive to me than real GGs R!:eek:

Having a great sex life with/by yourself, is one thing. But, I don't think that turning away from real human companionship is a healthy trade off!:doh:

Oh, by the by, I may be an autogynephiliac but I don't think I'm a "trans" anything!
Take THAT, Dr. Blanchard!

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Originally Posted by TGMarla

I think that a great many of us have long fantasized about actually having female genetalia, and many more who have and will not admit it.

All it takes to prove the theory is one person who takes a look at this idea, and says, "Hey, that describes me!" So if you ask me, it's completely valid.

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Hey, that describes me!

I was reading the entry on Wikipedia on the subject and came across this passage:

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Philip was a 38-year-old professional man referred to the author's clinic for assessment....Philip began masturbating at puberty, which occurred at age 12 or 13. The earliest sexual fantasy he could recall was that of having a woman's body. When he masturbated, he would imagine that he was a nude woman lying alone in her bed. His mental imagery would focus on his breasts, his vagina, the softness of his skin, and so on—all the characteristic features of the female physique. This remained his favorite sexual fantasy throughout his life.

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This describes me nearly perfectly. Until this day I never knew there was a term for it. Although I knew it was probably not a usual fantasy for a heterosexual, it never occurred to me that it was deviant in the pejorative sense of the word.

It is my understanding that Blanchard's 'autogynephilia' theory was not well accepted in the TG community because Blanchard categorized TGs as either being homosexual (M2Fs wanting to have sex with men), or non-homosexual in which case they were autogynephilic (loving themselves as women). Blanchard defined autogynephilia as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman." Blanchard suggested autogynephilia as an explanation for transsexuals wanting to transition.

The term 'paraphilia' in the definition is key as it means having unusual sexual desires or fantasies to the point where it interferes with the ability to enjoy equally satisfying sex with a willing partner. You can well imagine why there was such an uproar in the TG community. Also, Blanchards' research methods were questioned since his sample group was small and consisted of self reported gender-disphorists.

But, in later years other researchers suggested that autogynephilia was a valid condition attributable to some, not all non-homosexual members of the TG community, members who did not wish to transition.

I've read countless times here that for many CDers, nothing compares to the sexual thrill that accompanies the CDing so it appears to me as if autogynephilia is more widespread that some people like to think.

:iagree:

Well said,Reine!

The issues swirling around this thread are certainly hard to lock down. I've read all the posts very carefully and tried to see if I fit.

I don't think so.

I am personally very attracted to women (read GG). I enjoy the interaction of myself as a male with women (well, one woman, as I am in a long-term, committed relationship).

However, it is also clear that there is a very feminine streak slicing through my psyche. It is nothing short of thrilling to be feminine (but not sexually thrilling). Notice that I'm separating the words feminine and woman. I have read here many times as others remind us that being a genetic women is not an option, although many of us come as close to it as might be imaginable! (those of you who do that are soooo very impressive!).

I'm not one of that group. I enjoy being as feminine as possible, even as I retain male plumbing. I do hope that over time I am able to present a very convincing feminine personality and visage, not as a fantasy, but as a reality. My fantasies have never involved me as a genetic woman.

I have to admit, I'm almost disappointed, as yet again I don't seem to fit.

tina

I've heard it used by some to dismiss people with gender issues as just being perverts. It's often derogatory, but then so are most other words used to refer to people with gender issues. But I'd say that autogynephilia is more derogatory than most terms to me. Although I know plenty fetishistic crossdressers who are nice people, I don't like people assuming that I'm some horny dude who gets turned on by dressing like a woman when I'm pretty much the opposite of that.

But the term autogynephilia applied to transwomen is absurd. What's the alternative -- being turned on by your male qualities? Of course I'm more excited about being a woman.

Why is this thread in the MTF crossdressing forum?

There is a MTF transgender forum off the main page, just scroll down abit.

All the Best,
Ann / SS, good ol' fashioned crossdresser

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Originally Posted by skirtsuit

Why is this thread in the MTF crossdressing forum?

There is a MTF transgender forum off the main page, just scroll down abit.

All the Best,
Ann / SS, good ol' fashioned crossdresser

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AGP could be a motivating factor for some CDs. It is not strictly a TS condition. Many self identified CDs have said they feel they are autogynephilic.

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Originally Posted by skirtsuit

Why is this thread in the MTF crossdressing forum?

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Maybe because that's where it belongs.

Autogynephilia is basically another way of saying "fetishistic crossdresser." Transsexuals aren't generally motivated by some kind of turn-on they get from being feminine.

I'm not sure we should be categorizing ourselves into completely separate categories. I believe gender identity, sexual orientation and the appeal of wearing feminine trappings (what's currently "appropriate" as womens' clothes, jewelry and makeup) are independent scales instead of "check one, M or F".

Most people are at the same end of all the scales, corresponding to their physical sex. That status is so common those that enjoy it are sometimes afraid of people with mismatching feelings, possibly fearing our expression will result in corrupting or otherwise victimizing their children. There are also cultural pressures, ironically shifting as a result of fashion changes (togas, roman army skirts, 18th century ponytails under wigs etc). Fortunately the percentage of people willing to tolerate our public gender expression has been growing in recent decades.

Gender identity and physical sex at the opposite ends of the scales results in frustration that may lead to pusuit of a surgical reasignment. A gender identity somewhere in a broad range in the middle of the scale might result in secretly dressing, dressing adventures in public or living (without surgery) as a woman full time. Combine a mid range gender identity with a similar mid range sexual orientation (or opposite their physical sex) and a person might have erotic fantasies where they imagine themselves as the other sex. The trappings help us realize what it's like for the opposite physical sex weather for intimacy or going about other daily business.

Awareness of the high expense, medical risks and painful post operative recovery period probably discourages some potential reassignment patients.

If I say I'm right-handed, I'm categorizing myself only in the aspect that I'm right-handed. By identifying oneself as having some of the attributes of autogynephilia, one does not categorize oneself in any other aspect, except for being sexually drawn to the thought of having feminine genetalia. So it's still a very valid conversation, and it does not necessarily place one into a narrow box. Autogynephilia is something that I believe is common across a broad spectrum of transgendered males, not strictly transexuals, crossdressers, or any other artificial category one chooses to throw out there.

I think autogynephilia is a two-bit term that is used to trivialize and invalidate TG people and their behavior. Some people like Blanchard seem to derive sexual pleasure from pissing on people that they don't like and can't understand.

Here's one well-written critique of Blanchard's taxonomy:

http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/autogy...-critique.html

It's outside of my realm, since I don't experience any 'philia' associated with dressing, but it's an interesting read.

The gem of the essay is this line imo:

"A diagnostic label is often an intellectual fetish - something that provides an irrational sense of security and control to the person who uses it." :D