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This is a question posed on the Island Girls website:
Is is acceptable for a CD to appear in public dressed en femme sporting facial hair? Let's say for argument's sake we're talking a beard, goatee, mustache or other obvious facial hair, not something like sideburns which can be covered by a wig.
[size=4]Hi Julie,[/size]
[size=4]I'd sooner stick pins in my eyes than have a beard or moustache when I'm en femme and in my opinion the TVs that do this should be ashamed. They are just not doing us any favours and as long as these people are around the general public will continue to think of us as perverts. I'm sorry to go on a bit but I won't even wear trousers when I'm in womens clothes.[/size]
I believe in the all or nothing motto, you get what you put into something. If we're going to be taken seriously and not as a drag queen then having a beard in public is just not going work. I'm only being honest with my opinion. I do not believe this to be a fact however I have heard this somewhere before and see the problems in it.
Sure, I see no problem. Everyone should be free to dress the way they want.
I am with you Amelie, I only wish that everyone could go out in public dressed in the clothing that they feel best in. I know it would be a nice long dress for me. :D
I voted yes, before reading anybody's comments. I think this question sums up the freedom of expression that we are claiming for ourselves, and it's hypocritical to place our own boundaries on what is acceptable. Thanks for sharing it, Julie.
A guy, with a beard, in a dress, is a guy in a dress. He's not pretending to be a woman, and he is not taking anything away from women. Neither is he necessarily (just by wearing a dress) bringing crossdressing into disrepute. On the contrary, I think he is helping to break down the barriers created by society in defining a person by what they wear or what sex they were born.
If I want to go out dressed up, I would aim for the whole female effect, and would shave and make myself look as much as possible like the woman I believe exists inside me. But that is only my preference, and I have no right to tell the next man that he must do it my way or he is not a proper crossdresser. On reflection, the guy with a beard in a dress is being more honest than me; I am pretending to be a woman, he is being himself.
To create the true illusion I would not even consider any facial hair. In fact it sounds more like a fratenity joke than crossdressing. I don't even want to see it
No not at all i argree with Toni it is defintaly a big insult towards our femm side and towards gg's. when dress femm i go through great measures making sure that there is no facial hair on 'me face and also i should mention as well that i hate cd's that wear nylons with hairy legs it is just as bad and looks awful. like toni said people would think that we are pervets and it wouldn't help us on getting 'th respect that we deserve.
No,no,no,a thousand times no. I realize that in a perfect world you should be able to look any way you want, but we have enough problems going out and being accepted by society. If you want to look like a woman, then look like a woman.
GypsyKaren
I certainly would never consider going out enfemme with facial hair, even that five o'clock shadow is too much for me. However who am I to judge how someone else dresses or chooses to appear? While many of us try to emulate women there are those who feel comfortable with just the clothing and it has nothing to do with trying to pass as a woman. Different strokes for different folks!
No matter how far along the crossdressing continuum I have moved. There is always someone else further along. I do this for me, who am I to judge where someone else finds themselves. I voted, I would never do it, but could be ok with it.
Tiff
Julie,
Since you did not specify if this poll was just for cd's I voted, I hope that was okay. I voted don't see a problem with it. I think there are usually reasons why a person might have some facial hair.
Could be because a spouse really feels stronlgy about it and he is doing it to please her (which is quiet sweet really).
Or he could be just a guy who likes women's clothing but has no interest in all the other things. There are certainly plenty of yahoo groups for men in skirts and other things like that. Fetishizing one particular object, but not to epress some deeper femme self.
Or going back to the 'grunge' rock period of the early 90's, I think every gruffy lead singer was trying to push buttons and by wearing a dress it was done as a big 'f-u' to social code, morality and just an anything goes mentality.
I don't see it as demeaning. I think it find it more demeaning when someone has preconcieved notions of womanhood and likes to complain that women are not femine enough or lady-like or any of that we shoudl all be like Mrs Cleaver or some outdated sexist stereotype from the 50's.
That i find much more offenisive than a guy in a dress and a beard.
hugs
kathy in canada
I would never do it but thats me.I am not going through spending time putting on makeup to have some facial hair show.I want to look as feminine as possible and that wont help.
I voted too...... I don't see a problem with it either. I hate facial hair myself...... but there is such a thing as double standards imho. To me that's like saying.... well I'll accept your a CD as long as you shave your face........ A person should be accepted for who they are, not by what they look like or dress like ;)
In a perfect world that would work but you and I know its not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Tamara~
No it isn't a perfect world, that's why we all have to stand up for what we want ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyfydiana
Hi, Julie, I have voted "No Way", mainly because for me this is more about emulation of the fairer form.
I don't have a problem with men wearing clothing of the opposite sex, obviously ;), but it does depend on our motivation.
As I was taught, if you are going to do something, do it right!
Rachael. :)
I really cannot see the problem if thats what someone wants to do that for me never been out so not a prob
I personaly wouldn't go out without shaving first. If someone else is comfortable doing so, more power to 'em. I'm sitting here now in a skirt and sandals but without wig or makeup and unshaven for two days. I think it would be wonderful to be able to go run a few quick errands the way I'm dressed right now without first having shave and put on a ton of makeup and a wig (none of which will really go that far in making me pass, anyway).
Yes they should. I wasn't sure if this was addressing us or the big world in general. "Is is acceptable for a CD to appear in public dressed en femme sporting facial hair?" It's not fully accepted that we CD yet (let alone simply be ourselves,) beard or no beard. Hard to answer this without appearing judgemental which I do not mean to sound like nor questioning your post T. But yes like anything I see the double standard coming into play very quickly.. hmm now where's Eddie :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ~Tamara~
To each their own. If your intent is to go out and create a stir, then I can't think of too many better ways to do it.
But, if your intent is to blend in and be accepted, then there's no friggin' way!
I suppose it is a person's right to wear facial hair when dressed---IF he wants to----But he has no right to complain WHEN he gets ridiculed and laughed at.---I mean, what does he expect?
Surprisingly, some people think that they can change society and how it reacts to 'freakishness" simply by flaunting one's "weirdness" and then trying to get laws passed against 'discrimination" or whatever. because they don't like the normal reaction of people.
Hey its a give and trade off situation, a package deal not exclusive of the other---you have the right to be weird, but dont have the right to complain about the reactions of others---Thats what you expected to happen anyway. :rolleyes:
A lot of "Gay Rights" stuff is like this too, in my opinion. Housing, Job and "marrage" discrimination is one thing, but, Many also want the "right" to do what they want to in public and NOT be scorned and laughed at. It ain't gonna happen. Hey, even hetro couples have a hard time if they dress "funny' and perform 'excessive displays of emotion' in public. one has a right to do what he or she wishes (so long as its legal) but scorn and ridicule is a part of the package. it will always be the price you pay.---if you cant take one dont do the other.
Do some gays want special "privlidges" (instead of rights) to force "public approval" or lack of adverse reactions to acts that would make even hetros the target of ridicule or scorn?----people need to use their common sense to govern how they behave publicly or face the consequences.---no laws or suck-up politicians,(exploiters) can ever hope to change human nature. :hiding:
(excuse my rant) :D
Why is it their are people here on the forum who complain when society condems all Cds. yet now a question is asked about a bearded Cd the same Cds here condem him. Sorry, this is a hypocritacal attitude.
Sorry for what I am about to say next. This forum is really no different from the rednecks that most here complian of. I have never seen such a bunch of intolerant people as I see on this forum. You all complain about rules, yet you want to impose your own rules. Let's take an example, what if a major group of CDs decided that the only way to be a true CD was if the CD had their own breasts, not forms. What if they condemed all of you who wear forms calling you names and saying you are only mocking women by wearing forms. I know what most here would say, most here would make endless threads crying that these Cds weren't fair.
Also, no one,, no one deserves to be made fun of, no matter what that person is wearing. I would like to know something Marina, what do gays do in the street that hetero's don't do? What are gays doing that is so bad? I can tell you don't get out often or you would know better than to say this.
Also Marina what is weird? Are you weird because you look the way you do? Can we make fun of you because of the way you look? I don't think you would like this, and others wouldn't like it either. no matter how they are dressed. If we went by your thinking then some girls here who look better than others can make fun of them, because maybe to these girls the not so pretty CDs are weird looking.
I have never seen a more homophobic, intolerant bunch of people that I have seen here. I would have thought a CD forum would understand better, but I am wrong, most here are just rednecks in a dress.
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Sure, why not? It's known under the label genderqueer, by the way.
I see it as being no different that a guy in public dressed enfemme yet wearing no makeup and no wig, regardless of the amount of facial hair. I know girls that have done it, and at least one that does it full time. Seems she gets a lot of respect from those around her. Apparently for not lying to them. Apparently, quite a few nonCDs consider wearing a wig to be lying or hiding, instead of being real.
Personally, I would like to be able to slip on a skirt and go about my business, and not worry about the wig and makeup.
Not all CDs are gender varient, and thus not all need to look like real women. They should have the the right to express themselves accordingly.
Here are some more questions for everybody who has voted in the poll so far:
Did you answer for yourself, for your aspirations as a crossdresser?
Did you vote for the option that fits your political, social or gender preconceptions?
Did you vote on behalf of the crossdressing community?
Or did you try to decide how society at large would/should react to the scenario?
All the answers given so far take one of those four viewpoints, and only one of them can be valid. We are not spokesmen/women for anyone but ourselves (individually, not collectively) and, if we let our prejudices influence how we choose, then we are applying double standards.