I have Good news, Bad News and a Question

OK... this is long, but I really need help. Please keep reading.

My wife has had a very difficult time accepting my CDing. When I first told her 5 years ago -- and yes, we've been married for 10 -- her first reaction was shock, but she tried to accept it. For several months, I wore panties every day and she did her best to not let me know how much it upset her. Which, in turn, made me want to buy more panties, because I thought it was OK... but it wasn't.

Eventually, she couldn't handle it any more. I stopped wearing panties, at her request, and we started seeing a counsellor. We all agreed that, since she was so turned off by it -- and since I still couldn't admit to them or myself how powerful my feelings were about it -- that I would stop dressing, for good. And I did. It was tough, but for five years, I did my best to deny my girly side even existed.

Unfortunately, in that time, things between us deteriorated. By bits and pieces, I unwittingly became withdrawn, and disconnected from her and my kids. I seemed to lose interest in a lot of activities, except staring at the computer. I was tense, bitter, unsympathetic and cold. I gained a lot of weight. Over time, my wife became lonlier and lonlier, to the point where she considered moving out of the house.

Now... the good news is: about two months ago, my wife had a remarkable change in attitude towards my cross-dressing. She understands now, that this is an integral part of me, and that it's not going to go away, so I'd better, at long last, come to terms with it. Furthermore, she's realized that she can support me... as a friend, if not as a wife. She's helped me pick out outfits, make-up, and even my femme name. She has encouraged me to go find out exactly what all this means to me. And I'm working hard at it.

The really good news is, my life already seems much better. It's like I've woken up from some dream, and I'm finally ready to engage the world. Just the idea that I can crossdress if I want, not to mention my wife's remarkable support and love, have really helped me see what I had become. And today, I think I'm a better father, husband and person because of it. I've even lost 20 pounds in the past month.

The bad news is, that it comes at a heavy price. My wife no longer feels attracted to me, sexually. She says that she can't relate to me in that way, anymore. In truth, I've never been a dynamo in bed, and over the years, things have ground to a halt. Three weeks ago, we separated. We still live in the same house, until we figure out what we're going to do, but I sleep on the couch, and we don't socialize as a couple anymore. As much as that hurts me, what's worse is how much all of this has hurt her. She cries all the time, now. It's triggered a lot of her issues, and she feels isolated and desperately lonely. She didn't ask for any of this. And I feel guilty every day for not having told her about me before we got married.

Still with me? OK, here's the question: Tonight, my wife asked me for permission to discuss my crossdressing, and how it's affected her with two of her friends. She says that she feels like she's losing them as friends because she's unable to discuss this huge, painful thing that she's going through. She feels as though I've dragged her into the closet with me. And she's right. I didn't mean to, but that's what happened.

I'm torn, because she's been truly supportive of me the past few months, and she's so clearly in pain. I still love her deeply, and I have hope that we might be able to reconcile, someday. (For the record, I think she does too, though she's not sure it's even possible.) Part of me wants to just say 'yes, of course you can talk to them,' but I'm terrified. Especially since there's a very good chance these women will tell their husbands, and god knows where it will spread after that.

So. Does anyone have any thoughts? I really need some guidance, here.

Can she not find someone anonymous to talk to, rather than people who might react negatively to your situation? Involving people who don't understand the issue, at this point, could blow up in your face, causing irreparable damage.

Is it not worth seeing a sex therapist/marriage counsellor to see if you can sort things out together? I'm currently going down this avenue with my wife - I have no idea if it's going to work, but I feel that it's worth a shot.

Best of luck. :thumbsup:

Good Lord did you copy my life. Other than I don't think my marriage has distegrated to the effect yours has. In which I'm glad.
I too feel like I just snapped outta of a coma and I've looked at this situation and went oh my god what have I done.
I don't know what to say except I'm scared that if I don't make things right I may have a situation really close to yours.
Wow.
Well my wife talked to her mother about it. It was safest to go that route. She so far has decided not to talk to friends. And maybe try to convince her to go that route. This also depends heavily on your mom-in-law. We both kinda knew how she would feel before the conversation even started.
Good luck to you and if I can be of any help please let me know! Just PM me!

Hi,JulieRenee, First let me tell you that I read your story well and I can relate to what you're going thru and your wife too. I don't know how old you are, your economical situation but I think is time to move on.You have to put yourself together and realize plain and simple that your wife is not happy with the "woman in you". Put yourself in her place, it took you 5 years to let her know that she was making love to "another woman". I can understand you well because my first marriage, which lasted the longest (13 years) and we had two children, I hid my CD too. Making love I started one day using nighties. I told her that it turned me on, which is true.I got divorced for other motives but one day my son told me that his mother commented about me using nighties. She worked my son and daughter against me in such a way that I lost them forever. They are 30 and 34 now and my 4th wife and I live overseas. My advise to you and other CD's is : "When you meet a GG let them know the truth ASAP".It's only fair to them that they know the "woman in you" before commitments are made.

Hey Julie,

It does seem like there's a lot of hope in your message, just the fact that she realized that this was an integral part of you is a good sign, as is your hope for a reconciliation. She must see the positive changes in your life as a result of being able to dress. Maybe there could be some ways in which the two of you could spend more time together doing things as a couple -- a project or activity you both enjoy? Because while your 5 years of not dressing took a heavy toll on you -- and the marriage -- her state of mind at the moment also seems rather precarious.

As for her telling her friends, are they "her friends" only, or shared friends (are you friends with them/their husbands as well)? Do you think these friends are open-minded, and it would help her to share her feelings with them? Or if you feel like it's a good opportunity and are comfortable with other people knowing (but it doesn't really seem that way). Maybe if she could discuss it with someone else first -- I'm sure there are a lot of us "GGs" on this forum that would be more than willing to talk to her if she wants, for example... or a counsellor of course, before telling people in your immediate vicinity.

I wish you all the best,
Lila

Hi Julie

I'm sorry to have to say this, but your wife does need someone to open up to, and I don't think it's fair for you to give a list of acceptable candidates. Let's face it, she's going to want to talk with someone she feels comfortable with, not you. I think all you can do is have your wife tell her friends to please keep it confidential and hope that they do. I realize how much you fear about word getting out about you, been there, done that. All I can tell you is that now everyone knows I'm TS, and the world hasn't come to an end.

I also hate to say that if after all these years your wife is still having such problems with you, then I really find it hard to see much hope for your marriage. It also seems to me that your wife has other issues at play here besides your crossdressing. I think it's just easier for her to latch on to it and throw it back at you, just my opinion.

In any event, if you really want to save things with her, then you're just going to have to let talk to whoever and hope for the best. Sorry to say there's no easy button here, but I do wish you luck with this.

Karen

I can certainly relate to how your wife feels and I think that she does need to talk to someone that she knows, not women on a message board that dont know her at all...not saying we couldnt give her good advice but she will feel alot more comfortable talking to people she already knows

If these women are her good friends then they will listen and talk to her about it. I have told 3 of my friends about my husband and they all accept it. They tell me that what we do in our lives is our business and that they'll love me either way. They are also his friends since we've gotten married and they dont feel any different towards him after they were told. Heck a couple of em have even offered to go out to a club with us while he's dressed or come over and help him with make up and stuff.

So I definately think that gypsykaren was right when she said that you shouldnt give a list of acceptable people for her to talk to...she's in this situation not by choice so she should be able to talk to someone she feels comfortable talking to...just my opinion

JulieRenee,

That was a brave post and you deserve much commendation for getting your thoughts and fears out on the table.

My advice ... give your wife 'permission' to speak to her friends. Sooner or later, she will anyway. Of course, a professional ear would give your side of the story a better hearing, but that's not what your wife wants.

You should mentally prepare yourself for rough waters ahead. She's probably going to ask her friends if they think she should leave you.

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Originally Posted by DayTripper

You should mentally prepare yourself for rough waters ahead. She's probably going to ask her friends if they think she should leave you.

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I dont think that he or anyone should assume that she's gonna talk to her friends in a negative way about the CDing, maybe she just needs to let her feelings out to someone other than him

Ive talked to my friends about CDing but not once have I asked if they thought I should leave my husband

And SherryLynn is right. I don't plan to ask my friends if I should leave. I just want them to be part of my world again, and to know me and what I am going through. I just need support and to feel connected to my friends again.

Kali GG

Julie Renee, I think you have your answer. True love places no restrictions on your mate. What a wonderful opportunity for you to show your wife that you trust her. If you are really sincere about wanting to renew your relationship with her, then place your welfare in her hands. I suspect she will reciprocate in kind and place hers with you. I hope both of you can find the peace and contentment you are seeking.

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Originally Posted by kali GG

And SherryLynn is right. I don't plan to ask my friends if I should leave. I just want them to be part of my world again, and to know me and what I am going through. I just need support and to feel connected to my friends again.

Kali GG

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Very sorry for my presumptuous remark. I read JulieRenee say she was sleeping on the couch, social relations as a couple have stopped, etc. - I've been married once or twice and, based on the above, I thought I saw 'the writing on the wall.' I've been wrong more often than right in my life so please accept my apologies.

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Originally Posted by DayTripper

Very sorry for my presumptuous remark. I read JulieRenee say she was sleeping on the couch, social relations as a couple have stopped, etc. - I've been married once or twice and, based on the above, I thought I saw 'the writing on the wall.' I've been wrong more often than right in my life so please accept my apologies.

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I appreciate your apology but not to worry, no offense taken. I know how things look. Maybe you're right and the writing is on the wall, in a sense. (I sometimes think so myself.) The unusual thing about my relationship with Julie Renee, I think, is that we try hard to respect each other's feelings as well as our own, even when it's really challenging. (Like it is now.)

I understand her fear about her CD getting out, knowing how she has struggled with shame for many years. I'm just trying to figure out how to live an authentic life in the midst of it all. We are grateful for everyone's responses to our problem. This seems like a very supportive group of people and I'm glad Julie Renee found you all.

Best,

Kali GG

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Originally Posted by kali GG

And SherryLynn is right. I don't plan to ask my friends if I should leave. I just want them to be part of my world again, and to know me and what I am going through. I just need support and to feel connected to my friends again.

Kali GG

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The key point here, which it seems most didn't get, is that you need to talk to your friends Kali, because you feel you are "losing" them due to the fact that they well know there is something in your life that is causing you such sadness.

I can well understand your need to share your angst with them. Women form very strong bonds as friends, sharing even the most intimate secrets. When there is a pink elephant in the living room of one friend, it can result in misunderstandings and hurt feelings on the others' part as well, causing them to withdraw.

Are your friends married? Is your husband friends with their spouses? If so, is it possible you could all sit down and talk about this? With your husband en homme of course.

Your husband seems to be a very caring man. The pain he feels about your grief comes across so clearly in his words. Caring husbands aren't a dime a dozen.

If you need someone to speak with, in private, I am available most any time, via PM.

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Originally Posted by DayTripper

JulieRenee,

My advice ... give your wife 'permission' to speak to her friends. Sooner or later, she will anyway. Of course, a professional ear would give your side of the story a better hearing, but that's not what your wife wants.

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I think the very fact that Kali has asked permission from JulieRenee to speak with her friends belies the fact that "she will anyway".

As for why Kali prefers to talk to her friends rather than a professional; I gave my thoughts on that in my previous post to this thread.

A huge secret, which is causing emotional pain for one, between two women can create an isolated feeling on both sides. Kali simply needs to feel she has her friends back, and revealing the source of her grief will not only repair the rift, but will give her the emotional support no professional can provide.

Thank you everyone, for your input and support, you've been a big help. For those of you who have wondered, I do trust my wife, implictly. In fact, I trust both of her friends. And even one of their husbands. I like and respect all three of them, and would be genuinely shocked if they had serious issues with this. As I've pondered this, I've realized that apart from my own terror at being outed, it's really the second husband finding out that bothers me.

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and Kali and I have talked a bit more. Just so you all know, I'm leaning towards agreeing to her talking to the first woman, seeing how that goes, and then maybe the second, if she agrees not to tell her husband (Not that she wouldn't if she wanted to, but... I think if she agreed first, it might be OK.) And I'd be willing to talk with them about it afterwards, if they thought it would help.

In any event, I'm going to continue to mull it over this weekend (at Kali's suggestion) and see how I feel, so please, keep the advice coming.

(Oh... and by the way, everyone, just 'Julie' is fine. Julie Renee sounds so formal.) :D

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Originally Posted by JulieRenee

Thank you everyone, for your input and support, you've been a big help. For those of you who have wondered, I do trust my wife, implictly. In fact, I trust both of her friends. And even one of their husbands. I like and respect all three of them, and would be genuinely shocked if they had serious issues with this. As I've pondered this, I've realized that apart from my own terror at being outed, it's really the second husband finding out that bothers me.

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and Kali and I have talked a bit more. Just so you all know, I'm leaning towards agreeing to her talking to the first woman, seeing how that goes, and then maybe the second, if she agrees not to tell her husband (Not that she wouldn't if she wanted to, but... I think if she agreed first, it might be OK.) And I'd be willing to talk with them about it afterwards, if they thought it would help.

In any event, I'm going to continue to mull it over this weekend (at Kali's suggestion) and see how I feel, so please, keep the advice coming.

(Oh... and by the way, everyone, just 'Julie' is fine. Julie Renee sounds so formal.) :D

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Hi,JulieRenee,what worries me the most about the whole situation is:

1) The word gets out,hers/yours friends are going to know the "woman in you" side.Almost sure they are not going to look at you the same way, especially your male friends, women are much more understanding.

2) What about your sexual life ?...Is it important to both of you ?...According to you, you are sleeping on the couch, which it looks crystal clear where is at.

3 ) Do you need your wife for sex ? According to you, she is not longer attracted sexually towards you.Which means you have to be like "girlfriends", some marriages work that way.

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Originally Posted by Holly

Julie Renee, I think you have your answer. True love places no restrictions on your mate. What a wonderful opportunity for you to show your wife that you trust her. If you are really sincere about wanting to renew your relationship with her, then place your welfare in her hands. I suspect she will reciprocate in kind and place hers with you. I hope both of you can find the peace and contentment you are seeking.

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[SIZE="3"]I agree with Holly, I am going through the same thing with my long term GF told her 3 weeks ago, and things have improved tremendously since I opened up to her. Put the control in her hands, tell her that you trust her and explain that the coincidences would empact her too if her GFs talked.
Feel free to add me to your Yahoo messenger KristenKelly77 (that’s the same Invite to all the girls). I dont have all the answers but am going through the same thing, misery loves company. I love to chat, I'm a good ear that won't put you down. If I'm home the computer Is always on, and if I am not at my desk get back to you shortly, or e-mail me.[/SIZE]

The question is, have you accepted yourself as a CD'er or TG? If you have reached self acceptance than you should feel confidence in discussing the matter with anyone. Let the husbands find out. So what. Will that change how you feel about yourself. I believe the more communication, the better. Be it with your wife, family, or friends. You will find out more about yourself, as will they. Let her talk. It's a good thing.

Hi there Julie, many replies already, no magic wand here either, but just to say whatever happens if you are accepting your cdgirl life as being a permanent fixture in your life then your wife must have the chance to talk it through and hopefully you will be strong enough to talk your choices through with friends afterwards too - even get in first with the husbands?
Anyway, at least you are sharing here and we can be thinking of you as you look to the future. Ideally we would all love fully supporting wives/girlfriends but if we have not shared our dressing with them early in a relationship before even moving in together or marriage then it becomes very hard on them. Take care. Keep us advised on developments. Samantha xx

Kali and Julie, Kudos to you both for being so respectful to each other!! That is something that is hard to find in relationships!

Kali, I understand where you are with feeling cut off from longtime close girlfriends. From my own experience, it helps if you've done some homework so you can answer some of their questions, as this may or may not be foriegn to them. As much as I wanted to and needed to tell my closest friend, knowing that she is very traditional, I took a leap of faith, because it was coming between us, and I felt she would support me. She did the best that she could, but it's taken her a year to start to be okay with it. It did help me, though. I hope it works for you both, takes time to understand how it can. :love:

Good for you both for finding one of the best support sites on the internet, IMHO. I don't know how Karen and I would have found our way without it.
Kat

Hi Julie

I can very much relate to you story in some ways, in places I could have even have written the same post, however I'm glad to say that although my Partner has very simular concerns as yours, and it has at times even caused a divide between us, Were still very much in love with one another (and that really seem the same in your case in some places!)

my first question I would have to ask is why did you feel the needed to wear panties all day? I know some have the desire to do this wearing ladies attire under there male things, okay to some it may give them a high or a buzz, but think about it from your wife point of view, 5 years nothing them slam your wearing womans knickers every day, all day, and she is recoiling saying "What next"

I think there is a line we have to draw in the sand some time, yep we all have fantasies, and like to dress when we can, but sometime if we are in a relationship, (and in love) we have to consider there views, and even at times put them first. to quote you my own case I'm quite a large build and therefore I have quite a bit of excess flesh on my chest, hence by tapeing and using my forms I can make a very impressive cleavage, and it something I think totally at to my dressing and adds to the illusion of me being female, over being male.

However my partner does not like me to shave my chest, she says in makes me look to feminine (well thats the idea!) but because she doesn't like me to do it, I don't as it something I can do for her. I have to admit there have been times when I have 1) really really wanted to do so, and 2) even times in frustration when I have been so close to shaving it and saying to hell with it, but all the same I still have my chest hair. (dispite hating it myself, and as a matter of choice, cross dresser or not, it would all be gone, in a instant!

What I'm trying to get over here, is our partners do not want to be with us because of the woman we want to be come, but they are with us for the man that we are, ie we are the alpha in there life, and are unsure when we start acting as if we no longer want that role, or even worse drop in to a role below them, it kind of clear to see why there is a deep inner fear. Imagine how you would feel if the roles were reversed, and she started crossdressing as a male, and started to push you in to side, taking control of all the manly thing you enjoyed doing.

What you discribe above is fear, and sadly love dying due to it. it does seem your wife does care, she certainly has feeling for you, but she has need to talk to someone about her fears hence ASKING to talk to her friends about it, even in her dispair she is respecting you, by asking for you permission. my best example of how she is feeling is how would you feel if you came home to find she had bound her chest, she had donned a mans wig and tash, three piece suit, and male shoes (yes I know some guys would find it find, but for most of us we would be horrorfied at just the thought of it, and therefore only the same can be the reverse, Ie I love to dress as feminine as Can, and therefore I can totally understand (raksha's) my partners fear of my looking totally fem (ie do I want to do this all day every day!)

My advice here is talk to your wife, she want a man not a woman, and that clear from what you have writen here. We don't need to wear panties everyday, or dress daily to be a crossdresser. therefore we must find a limit our partner can live with, I'm 13 years in to my relationship, and my partner has seen me dressed 3 time, it may not even happen again, but one thing I have found, is that because I'm not worried about dressing every minute of the day, and I have a line I live to! ie family first, work, (putting a roof over our head) and working together for each other, my dressing not only takes a back seat with me but aslo with her as well (Okay she forget things sometimes, maybe even put them out of her mind to be honest) but when i need space, she is so willing to give it, and I have found I can actally be more of a woman, by being more of a man.

I hope my rambling make sence! good luck to both of you

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Originally Posted by Jackie-Ann

Hi,JulieRenee,what worries me the most about the whole situation is:

1) The word gets out,hers/yours friends are going to know the "woman in you" side.Almost sure they are not going to look at you the same way, especially your male friends, women are much more understanding.

2) What about your sexual life ?...Is it important to both of you ?...According to you, you are sleeping on the couch, which it looks crystal clear where is at.

3 ) Do you need your wife for sex ? According to you, she is not longer attracted sexually towards you.Which means you have to be like "girlfriends", some marriages work that way.

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Jackie,

I respectfully disagree with you on point one. Trudi came out to the male friends (and their partners) whom she felt she "needed" to share this part of herself, those being the ones she has a very deep and abiding friendship with.
She also came out to her parents.
Not one of her male friends reacted negatively to this, nor do they treat her any differently than they always did. It simply is a non issue for them.
Trudi's father wasn't keen on the idea, but was accepting of it, even though he declined a chance to meet "Trudi" via pictures (meeting her in person was never something Trudi offered him). I sincerely do not feel my father in law views or treats my husband any differently than before the "big talk."
I am reminded, once again, of that quote:
Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter.

As to point three, I agree. Many marriages are non sexual, either by choice or by necessity~illnesses both physical and/or emotional. I have known several couples who are in these type marriages, and I must say some of them are more stable and emotionally grounded than those who are sexual.

Many women will tell you they very much enjoy being held, and cherished physically with the knowledge that it is not simply a "means to an end" i.e. not the salad before the main course, as it were.

Many men just never "get this". I dare say few women enjoy knowing that first touch is a predicate to sex. Men need to learn that holding, caressing, and touching does NOT equate to foreplay every time! :happy:

As a transgendered person, my husband has the feminine instincts to know this, this being perhaps a part of the "sensitive male" I gave my heart to.

Dang, this turned into a rambling post. :o Sorry 'bout that!

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Originally Posted by Tracy_Victoria

my first question I would have to ask is why did you feel the needed to wear panties all day?

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Well, shortly after I told her, she seemed to be OK with things, and in my relief that she hadn't immediately walked out the door, I assumed that things were more or less all right. A few days later, I told her that, I wanted to explore my feelings, and asked her if she would be OK with it. Thus, the panties. Honestly? I didn't know what else to try. I didn't know about any kind of support group, and at the time? I don't think I was ready for one.

In hindsight, it was all incredibly selfish of me. I really wasn't aware of how she felt. And she was trying to be supportive and loving, so didn't tell me how much it was hurting her. All in all, it was a perfect storm of miscommunication, her fears and my blindness to her needs.

For those of you who are wondering, the answer is no, neither of us feel like we could be in a sexless marriage for the rest of our lives. Ultimately, if we can't resolve that issue, we'll probably split up, for good. But as many of you have correctly said, we both have very strong feelings of love, respect and compassion for the other. So we're both trying to support each other as much as we can, throughout this time, and we're hoping for the best.

I'm sure, over time, we'll both be posting issues here as they come up. Thank you all, once again, for your help.

Hi, I'm Tracy Victoria's OH. I too tried to be totally 'accepting' immediatly after he first told me, but it was just too much to take all in one go. We've tried recently to take 'baby steps', but it's not been easy - it takes a lot of time, which, to be honest, I'd rather spend as 'husband and wife' time than gf/gf time or family time......... The isolation I felt from my friends when going through the 'bad times' was really horrid, and made even worse by the fact that Tracy Victoria actually liked my friends, and enjoyed spending time in their company too - so I didn't get any privacy with them. I've since found out there was an element of jealousy from him towards that closeness of the relationship gg's have with their gfs.

Recently he's been making an extra effort to take more responsibilty around the house - to be 'the man' of the house, instead of just another 'kid' who I had to clear up after, and it's made a HUGE difference to my life (and from his post, to his CD'ing as well - sounds as if it's excentuating the differences).

If you trust your wife, you have to trust her judgement in her choice of friends. By telling her, you've made the information no secret - you've realeased it into the wild - and now you must trust her, just as you trust her not to poison your food, to take care of your children.

The best thing you can do is talk to her, tell her your fears and hopefully come to an agreement.

PS - I'm surprised your councellor agreed that stopping dressing completely was acheivable - maybe they weren't that experienced in councelling CD couples? If you go for councelling again - ask what experience thay have, and what they think could be acheivable - that's usually a good give away of their experience ;)

I wish you both the very best of luck in the future, what ever it holds. If your wife wants to PM me, she's more than welcome.