Thanks for letting me know I don't pass

I've been working on going out dressed. I like walking around dressed, but am still nervous about it. Anyway I went out last night around 10 for a walk around the neighborhood and as usual it was very enjoyable. When I got home I thought I would get up early and go for another walk. So I got up at 5 and put some makeup on and my forms. Put on a cute knee length blue and white skirt and a white top, thigh high stockings and a pair of blue sandals I just bought at pay less, and my wig. It was cool this morning so I grabbed a black leather jacket. While I was out I decided to be adventurous and stop at the local doughnut shop and pick up something. The gal at the wig store said that if this is who you are then people just need to accept it. Easier said than done. As I was approaching the doughnut shop I saw a pick up drive into the driveway and thought, great I guess it won't be empty at 6 in the morning. As I got closer I saw 2 men sitting having coffee. OK 3 men in a doughnut shop and a cross dresser. Do I really want to go there? I almost walked right on by and then I thought oh what the hell just do it. So I walked in and the lady behind the counter was nice and wished me a good morning. Then called for someone in the back to help her. An older man walks out asks me what I wanted and I gave him my order. As he was putting the doughnuts in the bag he says..."do you want anything else...SIR" OH thanks for noticing the wig, the breasts, the skirt, the nylons. I guess the only saving grace was that the 3 men didn't say a word. Maybe I'll try another doughnut shop next week.

So much for "the customer's always right". If that older guy is the owner or manager he should realize that, whatever his own prejudices, driving away business in this economy is just plain stupid. If I were you I'd avoid that donut shop forever, and tell others that they were very rude to you one time you went there (no need to elaborate) and they should stay away too.

..."do you want anything else...SIR"

Mental retort, "Yeah, ... How about you drop into a big hole, jerk"

Doncha just hate something like that?

Wendy,

I don't think you have ever posted a pic of yourself so how could we let you know if you pass or not!

Kay

Hi Wendy-

First of all, let me say I understand the feeling<big hug>, it's happened to me, in fact I think it has probably happened to nearly all of us at one time or another. Here's the deal, you probably already know this: some people are just jerks and a**holes, they can't help it, it's like a social handicap. Simply avoid them, for instance, like the other girls said, don't go to that shop anymore.

Speaking for myself, I know I don't pass. Most of the time people don't seem to notice or care, which I consider just as good as. The rest of them don't matter. Just be yourself and don't let them get to you. They're not worth the energy. Best of luck on your journey, girl.

****I was going to add this below Kate's post, but fwiw, I guess I will just toss it out here. Wendy, the first couple of sentences in your post seem to indicate that you haven't been out very much. Passing, or at least passing a little better, takes practice, but don't worry, you'll get better at it. It's not just about the clothes, the wig, the forms and the makeup, it's the intangible things that people cue in on that get us read. Things like gestures, mannerisms, body language, facial expressions, all of those and more are what people notice unconsciously and make them decide, girl, boy or ? . And oh yeah, almost forgot...the voice. The toughest one. You can look like a model, but if you open your mouth and guy comes out it kind of spoils the effect. Not being critical of you, maybe you were perfect and he happened to read you and was just a jerk about it.

Hugs...Joni Mari

Yeah, there was a movie theater in Indy where the older lady selling the tickets always went out of her way to call me sir. Very annoying that!

You should post your pics here for constructive criticism on passing!

Hmmm...there's a moron for every situation, I guess. Your life is not changed one iota just because donut man with closed mind can tell you're in drag. Screw him.

To really mess with him MAYBE the proper response would have been

"...I'm all set, no thank you...Ma'am"

Hi Wendy, sorry you had to put up with Donut Shop Dude. It's easy to say "just ignore it" but I know from my own experience that it's so hard to put that into practice. Especially when you feel so great about yourself and the way you look, then someone makes sure to knock you down a bit.

For the record, I think all of us on this forum know how painful experiences like this can be. And most of us can probably vouch for the fact that it does eventually get easier. There will always be mean people who try to hurt us (whoever we are) but the sting and the pain and tears become less hurtful as time goes on.

It takes amazing amounts of courage and determination to leave the house dressed - you're single handedly taking on hundreds of years of social taboo and conditioning, doing something that the toughest macho men would be frightened to death of attempting. So you've already won the second you walk out that door - and anyone who doesn't give you their admiration and respect is an immature idiot in my opinion.

I've been living full time as female for 7 months now, back at work full time for 3 months, and this kind of stuff still happens almost once a day. I was walking by a group of guys yesterday in fact and they looked at me scornfully as I passed and I overheard one say, "I told you - look at how big it's hands are..." - the amazing thing was that it didn't hurt so much anymore. A few months ago I would have scampered home crying, but I just looked at them in the eye and smiled and kept walking. As you're out and about more you won't have to make the effort to ignore stuff, it will just end up hurting less and less and you'll realize that it's meaningless in the overall scheme of things.

Sorry about the long winded lecture but this is something I feel really strongly about and I think it's important to not let stuff like this force you back in that boring, stifling closet!! (well, except to pick out a new outfit!!).

Hi Wendy,

You know .. it "could" be that they're doing on purpose, and letting you know, that they "read" you ... but I tend to think that they think they're being polite! Think about it, they aren't part of the TG community, they don't deal with TG people on a regular everyday basis and they see this person in front of them that is giving off apparently more male signals than female ones, what do they do? .... answer: They be polite and not mention the clothes, act like they haven't noticed a single thing, and call you "sir" because they read that you're biologically male and that you're the customer. :doh:

I think this is about the regular public not knowing what to say or do when they encounter a person who doesn't fit into either of the two boxes "male" or "female". It's happened to me too and it's a bit crushing as you think to yourself "can't they see what I'm trying to say? (be?)" ... I think it just means that these people need to be educated in how to address a TG person.

If we get a new bartender at our River City Gems TG socials who's never worked with a TG group before we always tell them that - "everyone here tonight is a lady" and to please address them as such. They're always happy to be guided on the etiquette. That's what this could be - ignorance.

I have had something like that happen when I first started going out. I go to the future shop in drab and I wanted to go there dressed. So one gray sat morn, I went. I wad looking for a new tv DVD player they works on ac/dc current for my rig. I asked a SA but he did not know if they had them. He and I walked to another SA and he asked him ( here it comes) "do we have tv/dvd player for a truck. He...she is looking for one." He did not say it wrong to be mean , he changed it to she just as he said he. I did feel a little sad and knew I did not pass , but he did corcect him self and I feel good that he at lest called me she. So mine if not bad. Yours I would have tossed the food at his face and asked for my money back if the insalt. But that's me.

Keep you head up and keep going out. If you read some of my threads you might see why we don't need to pass to be happy.

I do agree that sometimes it's simply a bit of confusion on the other person's part, like Christina had happen to her. I have had people correct themselves in midstride and call me ma'am or miss. Personally I don't mind the getting read, it's the deliberate discourtesy that upsets me.

However, there have been occasions when the other person looks me in the eye and puts that slight but definite emphasis on the word "Sir" along with that special little smirk that says, "You're not fooling me for one single second and I want to make sure you know it and that everyone else in earshot knows it, too." No benefit of the doubt there. And they are the ones who get a complaint to the management, or if they're in charge, the assurance that there won't be any repeat business from me or any other person I know.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant.

Hugs...Joni Mari

Thanks everyone for the incourageing words.
To Kay, I never said I could pass. I'm 6'5 and wear 2xl tops, I'm not fat I wear size 9 jeans but I have shoulders like a football player.
I just came home and had to blow off some steam. Thats the great thing about this forum, you can blow off some steam and get some possitive responses from the members.
I know I still have alot of work to do and may never pass100%, but I still enjoy dressing and going out and will continue to do it.
BTW I have a great pay less shoe store near me where the cashier is very acomadating and nice. I have not gone in dressed but it may be the next place that I would try.
Thanks again.

I admire those of you who are brave enough to go out dressed. You carry the torch for the rest of us. :)

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Originally Posted by DianneRoberts

To really mess with him MAYBE the proper response would have been

"...I'm all set, no thank you...Ma'am"

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:yt: That would have been a GREAT response.:D

Hi Wendy-

Well okay then, maybe it wasn't something intangible.<lol> But I still think you should be addressed according to how you're presenting yourself. Courtesy doesn't cost anything, from experience I can tell you the people at Payless will know how to behave.

Hugs...Joni Mari

Maybe you should post the address of this donut shop.

Then everyone from your area on the forum could mail them an empty bag from another donut shop to show the business they are not getting because of their bigotry?

Or at least know not to go there.

just don't call me late for dinner!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

I'm of the belief that it was an uninformed choice of words. I think the nice part is you weren't threatened in any way, then I would be upset. Keep in mind that I've been out and heard things like, "look at the fag", "yea let's beat up the fag!" So, in the grand scheme of things, I think you did OK!

I say uninformed because many people aren't familiar with our community and how to respond to us. I was talking to the manager of the Crowne Plaza Hotel where the Southern Comfort Conference is held, and he said they had mini-classes for the staff on how we wish to be treated, and a little bit about the community.

So education is needed, not sarcasm or snottiness (though I know how you feel). You could have said, "I prefer to be called ma'm."

-Tracy

I would have said and I do not want these now either and left never to return and would consider if it were a large chain shop reportint them to corperate HQ but thats Just me. I bo not suffer fools and rude A@# H&%@s Lightly. you Go girl and be yourself you have every right to go wher you want wearing what you want
Hugs Annete

Ah, ignorance. It comes in all shapes and sizes. Don't let it get you down, kudos on going on and being adventurous!!!

Wendy,

Don't let it get you down. The first time I got called ma'am while dressed, I stopped dead for several moments. When I got my composure back, I shoved my money in his hand (gas station). "I've got your money," he said, with that "dumb females" smirk, "What do you want me to do with it?" "Seven," I said shortly. "Okay, pump seven. Thank you." I turned and walked out without saying another word.

Basically, it could have been ignorance. I like giving people the benefit of the doubt. But you know when you're being mocked. Real men don't treat a woman rudely, no matter what she looks like. That's the only bit of advice I can give: if you don't know the feminine art of raising your voice (in pitch, not volume) and letting everyone know that *you* are outraged, learn it. At 6'5", there are plenty of situations where you'd be safe throwing a womanly tantrum and getting the treatment you deserve.

My wife once did that to a sister at a SCA event. He/she came no where near passing but was still dressed in her mid-evil finest. She was also was in very poor health and having a hard time walking. Even married to me my wife went over to her and said "Do you need any help my lord"? (We tried to talk forsoothly) :D She responded with a "No thank you, and it's My Lady". He was a little annoyed, but my wife was genuinely trying to be nice and didn't know. I like to play it safe, I call people by their clothing. It usually works out best. The guy may not have meant to be a jerk, but then again......

I don't understand all the hubbub. You are a male, are you not?

What right do you have to demand anyone call you exactly what you like? Most people do not read minds. It's the height of arrogance to expect anything different.

I don't think a little bit of venting is anywhere near "the height of arrogance".

Wendy, I was in a situation almost exactly like yours a while back where when the owner (?) also came out to take my order in stead of the waitress. The only other customers who were in the restraunt got up and walked out without finishing their order. We talked for the 15 min waiting on my order and he was not disrespectful, but I did feel he wanted to blame me for the group walking out. I tried to be a good representative of cd'ers but it's hard when they think you cost them business. So just try to be understanding as much as possible and leave a positive impression if you can.

As far as being called "sir", most people don't know our protocol while we are dressed and I have noticed that since I wear my hair most of the time "femme", even in drab, people tend to make it a point to call me "sir", not out of disrespect, but it seems to me, they feel good about being able to figure out what gender I am and call me "correctly". It's like they are saying it with a "Yes!, I got it right!" expression.

I also know when they are intentionaly being disrespectful, like when some guy just started forcing a long, hysterical laugh while I passed by. What a jerk.

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Originally Posted by Veronica75

So much for "the customer's always right". If that older guy is the owner or manager he should realize that, whatever his own prejudices, driving away business in this economy is just plain stupid.

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OK, I'm lost here. How was he driving away business (or, as others have said, being a jerk)? Did he spit on your food, call you an insulting name, snicker as he gave you the meal?

Lighten up, Francis. How many of us took 20 years, 30, even 40 to figure out what gender we think we are, and you're expecting him to figure it out in 30 seconds?

Jonianne: The OP didn't come across as that arrogant - he... she... whatever... was just expressing disappointment at the whole scene. What got me was the followup comments with everyone dogpiling on with "what a jerk" and "driving away business" nonsense.

ralph

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

it "could" be that they're doing on purpose, and letting you know, that they "read" you ... but I tend to think that they think they're being polite!

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Along the veins of the famous quote from Napoleon - Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.

It's true that the general populace really doesn't know much about us (well, how could they, we barely know ourselves sometimes!). I would like to come up with a polite response that would gently let someone know the proper way to address me. Of course, many may not pick up on the subtlety, but at least I would have tried to help them.

Maybe I just lack imagination but nothing has ever come to mind.

-Gillian

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Originally Posted by Ralph

.......Jonianne: The OP didn't come across as that arrogant - he... she... whatever... was just expressing disappointment at the whole scene.......

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Ralph, I was responding to someone else's post that was calling the OP as having the "height of arrogance".

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

Hi Wendy,

You know .. it "could" be that they're doing on purpose, and letting you know, that they "read" you ... but I tend to think that they think they're being polite! Think about it, they aren't part of the TG community, they don't deal with TG people on a regular everyday basis and they see this person in front of them that is giving off apparently more male signals than female ones, what do they do? .... answer: They be polite and not mention the clothes, act like they haven't noticed a single thing, and call you "sir" because they read that you're biologically male and that you're the customer. :doh:

I think this is about the regular public not knowing what to say or do when they encounter a person who doesn't fit into either of the two boxes "male" or "female". It's happened to me too and it's a bit crushing as you think to yourself "can't they see what I'm trying to say? (be?)" ... I think it just means that these people need to be educated in how to address a TG person.

If we get a new bartender at our River City Gems TG socials who's never worked with a TG group before we always tell them that - "everyone here tonight is a lady" and to please address them as such. They're always happy to be guided on the etiquette. That's what this could be - ignorance.

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When you walk out that front door dress you are NOT in Crossdresser.com....you are in the real world call society, there are No forum administrators walking around with you to make sure that people treat you right.

At 6'5 shoulders like a line backers is one thing ...... but going there nervous is not good at all, that is the one thing that will get you read all the time.....quick.

I did not hear you say that the man was rude to you, even thou he read you I feel that he was just being polite like Rachel said, you can not take everything that people say to heart......they just do not know how to say it right.

MissConstrude brings up a very good point.

Prejudices, ignorance, jerk, moron, bigotry ,mental retort....a**hole......it is amazing how we can judge others for just being them-self.......hey is that what they do to us.

LA CINDY LOVE

Sorry, but if you refer to the original post, the word that the gentleman in question used is in caps, indicating that the word was specifically emphasized. Perhaps Wendy can clarify that, but to me the only reason for using undue emphasis is to put someone in their place. More to the point, why use any gender specific form of address at all? If they were uncertain what term to use, why not omit it completely rather than emphasize the word "SIR"?

Why not simply say, "Thanks for your business, have a great day. Next time try the maple bars." or something along those lines? For my money he was being intentionally rude and knew exactly what he was doing.

Hugs...Joni Mari

Nearly every cab driver that uses a gender-pronoun at all calls me "Sir", no matter how I am dressed -- and often before I've said a single word. "Where would you like to go, Sir"? Even when I'm tried extra-hard to look female. Very few of them have sounded like they were trying to make a "dig"... though I did get one a few weeks ago who tried several times to get me to say things... it felt like he was 95% sure I was male but wanted to get me to talk enough to confirm it through my voice... it wasn't even subtle.

The cab driver I had last night tried for conversation several times, even though he could see I was busy trying to put on my heels. I could barely understand what he was trying to say... what-ever it was was so far away from my internal state and my pop-culture experience that his paragraphs literally sounded like a foreign language.Then at the destination, he kept me, trying to talk me into arranging to have him drive me home afterwards. I got the impression that he was making a clumsy attempt to "pick me up". I don't know if he "read" me or not... probably did, since everyone else seems to.

I get called "M'am" very seldom. The only place that is good about it is the GLBT club that hosts our monthly meetings. (Well, there are a small number of other places that are good about it, a couple of restaurants that have dealt with us before.) If I'm gender-bending I don't mind, but if I've taken the trouble to Dress completely and I'm in heels and carrying a purse, getting called "Sir" is... well, it's a disappointment.

What I can say, though, is that when I visibly gender-bend, or dress completely, that even though many people "read" me in a fraction of a second, that there are an awful lot of people who are pleasant and completely welcoming and go out of their way to be nice to me, and very few people who are openly critical; I may not "pass" to very many people at all, and yet to the great majority of people, when I am cross-dressed, somehow I am completely "normal", as if it is the way I am "supposed to be".

Well, you said this was an older guy....maybe his inner dialogue was along the lines of Geez, these crazy kids and their wacky fashions these days....this guy almost looks like a girl! I should call him "Ma'am" and embarrass him. No, no, that would be rude....just call him "Sir" like any other guy. These silly kids!

Then again, sure, he might've just been trying to be a jerk. Oh well. If you told me that I could go out dressed and the worst that would ever happen is that I'd get called "Sir" from time to time, I'd be strolling the aisles at Target tomorrow in the biggest, poofiest ballgown you could possibly imagine. :)

Good on you for having more cojones than I, and if there's anyone who 's got a problem with you, just let them choke on their own bile. :)

The reality is very very few pass or are convincing as women.

I have to agree with Rachel, I will assume it was ignorance on the server's part. It was spur of the moment and he probably really had not had contact with "our kind" before.

I really don't see what the OP's ability to pass had to do with anything (in regard to all those who want to see pictures). I have said before that in most cases I would not "pass" and look <-----. Passing is not the issue here. It is ignorance or arrogance. Which one was the man showing? Who knows. I hope ignorance because we can educate. Arrogance however is something else and karma will bite you.

Just to add my 2 cents

At 6'5" you won't pass sorry you are at the 99.8 percentile of female height and you will stand out. Does not matter how confident you are.

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Originally Posted by TSchapes

You could have said, "I prefer to be called ma'm."

-Tracy

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I agree with Tracy and I certainly don't agree with all the aggressiveness in other posts...

It happened to me as well and I have made a point out of it to stop this kind of thing right in its tracks by saying: "Excuse me... when I dress like a woman, I prefer to be addressed as one"... This has always resulted in an apology from the offending person... In the discussion that follows, you can make a friend by telling him/her, now that you know that your cover is blown anyway, that it is very hard being a girl, but that you are doing the best you can... This is almost a guarantee to break the ice...

At least that is my experience...

:love:
Dita.

Well when I went to the liquor store to get some pepermint schnaps fror a friend I was called a worse name. The store clerk had the nerve to refer to me as sweetheart! Not a Maaam or a sir just a deragatory term. How dare he refer to me as a "Sweetheart" Whats next will I be refered to as Honey , or Babe or Doll. Where will it all end!!!

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Originally Posted by MissConstrued

I don't understand all the hubbub. You are a male, are you not?

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Yes, but that doesn't mean she wants to be addressed as one en femme. Let me tell you something, I live as a guy day to day and being addressed as "Sir" hurts every time, like a dagger. But I have to let it go. But if I was addressed as "Sir" en femme, I would be perturbed and annoyed to say the least. And if it was obviously done out of malice, with an emphasized "Sir", the person involved would find out just how cold and scornful I can be.

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What right do you have to demand anyone call you exactly what you like? Most people do not read minds. It's the height of arrogance to expect anything different.

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No, people can't read minds, but I since it is, after all the 21st freeking century, I'd expect them to have been paying attention and know at least this one basic rule:

"You address CD/TG/TS people as the gender their presenting as, it's polite."

We're not that uncommon for people to know that.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

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Originally Posted by wendy360

An older man walks out asks me what I wanted and I gave him my order. As he was putting the doughnuts in the bag he says..."do you want anything else...SIR"

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Seriously, don't take crap off of an adult working in a donut shop. If he is not the owner, then he is pathetic, and if he is the owner, then leaving the store without the donuts you had him pull from the case will get your message across in the only language he understands.

Him:"do you want anything else...SIR?"

Me: "Not from you." Then just the sound of my heels walking out of the door.

or: "What do you charge for a bit of respect?"

But then I think batty has an even better idea...

It's obvious to Me that the salesclerk was making a "statement" that he did not approve---you were presenting yourself in femme mode and even the most dim people in the public sector would have the wit to address you in the feminine. I would chalk it up to the clerk being rude, ignorant or both and forget about it.

And BTW most of us don't pass all the time--although some may occasionally go unnoticed in a crowd or in certain types of venue, sooner or later even the most femme of us will be "read". It's no big deal--it kind of goes with the territory--I remember the biggest thrill I ever had was being all femmed up in a gay bar--one of the other patrons approached me and asked if I was a "real" women or a CD. It made my evening.

Finally I have to tell you one of the most attractive CDs I ever knew on a personal basis was your height---did she pass? Not really--Was she HOT?? very definatly. And one final thing--some of the posters above have suggested that you post a picture to tell whether you pass or not---if you feel like posting fine but you really can't tell from a photo whether you pass---I've seen dozens of pics which show a very femme person but once I met them it was clear given body height/weight and other factors that they were not passable--which is fine---just that you can't tell from a pic.

Sometimes, we (crossdressers), as a section of society, tend to get upset over a minor event such as being addressed as "Sir". I can't ever recall being called "sir" but if I were to be, then I'd probably just blush and never go to that store again.

In the bigger picture, it's a small thing, but to some of us it really is a big deal and some may become upset about it.

I tend to always try to see a nicer side to people and perhaps the sales clerk in this instance just didn't know how to handle the situation. Of course there is also the possibility that he might have been being rude, but when all said and done, if it really bothers you, let your feet do the talking and don't go back.
I doubt whether the clerk shall worry and neither should you. Don't let it stop you doing what you want to. For every piece of ignorance there is also a piece of understanding.

I think this is more likely to be ignorance than actice bigotry, as some have suggested - but you won't know until you push it further...:devil:

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Originally Posted by Phyliss

..."do you want anything else...SIR"

Mental retort, "Yeah, ... How about you drop into a big hole, jerk"

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When it'ever happened to me in the past, my standard response was always 'Do you really think I go to the effort of dressing like this, to be called SIR??

I think we ALL need to confront such attitudes, and emphasise there is more in this world than cis-men and women? :)

Plus, if you act like a lady, IME you are far more likely to get treated like one.. Act hurt in a feminine way and just watch that male conditioning kick in... :gorgeous:

The vast majority of crossdressers can't pass... Hell, most people on HRT can't pass. I say to hell with passing and conformity. They're entirely overrated. I stopped caring what others thought of my attire long ago. Just wear whatever you want anytime you want.

Those who make the point about typical folk not knowing "CD ettiquette" make a good point, my own background of going out dressed was only in NYC where the culture is more enlightened, or at least more obsessed with not stepping on anyone's toes... in New York, if they didn't know whether to use "sir" or "ma'am" they'd just say, "So you want anything else?" and forget the pronoun for fear of an unpleasant reaction or, yes, driving away business.

Also, as others said, the delivery and attitude have to be taken into account, and no one who wasn't there has any idea of what that really was. Was the server just trying to be polite to a guy in a dress? Or did he look down his nose and sneer as he ridiculed someone different from himself? Who knows.

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Originally Posted by Ralph

OK, I'm lost here. How was he driving away business (or, as others have said, being a jerk)? Did he spit on your food, call you an insulting name, snicker as he gave you the meal?

Lighten up, Francis. How many of us took 20 years, 30, even 40 to figure out what gender we think we are, and you're expecting him to figure it out in 30 seconds?

Jonianne: The OP didn't come across as that arrogant - he... she... whatever... was just expressing disappointment at the whole scene. What got me was the followup comments with everyone dogpiling on with "what a jerk" and "driving away business" nonsense.

ralph

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Originally Posted by MissConstrued

I don't understand all the hubbub. You are a male, are you not?

What right do you have to demand anyone call you exactly what you like? Most people do not read minds. It's the height of arrogance to expect anything different.

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you ARE kidding, right??? "What right do you have to be adressed as you wish to be adressed?"??? That's EVERYONE'S right, sweetie. People can and do make mistakes, and some don't mean any harm. Especially those in retail businesses. They aren't there to give you affirmation, of course, but they do want your business, and insulting you purposely ain't the way to build repeat customers.

But back to the quote. I am sorry, but that is about the most backwards statement I have ever seen. I think you need to look up the meaning of arrogance. Asking to be addressed as you pretty obviously wish to be adressed is not asking alot of people. It doesnt ruin their day, or cost them anything. If ANYthing is arrogant, it's assuming you have any business going out of your way to insult someone because their existence somehow offends you.

Sheesh...
I'm dumbfounded, I really am.

Hugs,


Melissa:)

It's worth remembering that much of the gains Women, African Americans, Indiginous Australians and many others made came from the way they chose to respond directly to discrimination regarding shops and services. From where they could sit on the bus, drink at the pub or whether they got let into the swimming pool or how they were treated at them.

Whether public acts of defiance or court cases this is how others won rights and acceptance.

Regarding my previous suggestion, you could follow the 'kill them with kindness' option my Grandmother was fond of.

Get a bunch more CDs and TSs and make a point of regularly going in there dressed. No matter how rude he is. Behaving well and defying his rudeness with politeness but not meekness. The violence of good manners.

If he wasn't so happy serving you then make him less happy by going in again, and again. Eventually he may get over his problems, even become an ally. But even if not it's refusing to be driven away by his poor behaviour.

Filling his whole shop with CDs and TSs every last saturday for Sex and the City style girl-talk over coffee and donuts would be spectacular revenge would it not?

It is aggrivating as hell when someone goes out of their way to belittle us.
Of course after the incident you always think of all these good come-backs, sucks that in the heat of the moment they don't come to mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KateSpade83

You should post your pics here for constructive criticism on passing!

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Kate think about that -
Posting photos on a TG forum and asking if they pass. Especially when some of the posters on this forum have NO clue what the OP looks like at all, yet say "Oh you don't pass, most of us don't"
Yeah I made that mistake once - posting photos and asking about how I pass or whatever.

One would be better off covering themselves in fresh blood and walking into a lion's cage. A lot of TG have all these bad feelings and want everyone else to feel bad too... Asking TG's if anything passes is a bad idea.

[QUOTE=Nicole Erin;1741728]It is aggrivating as hell when someone goes out of their way to belittle us.
Of course after the incident you always think of all these good come-backs, sucks that in the heat of the moment they don't come to mind.[QUOTE]


THINGS TO SAY WHEN YOU ARE MALICIOUSLY MIS-GENDERED

1. "Exactly what part of this told you I wish to be called sir?"
2. "Thank YOU, sir/ma'am" (whichever is wrong)
3. Look over your shoulder for the "sir"
4. "Thank you(name on tag), Where can I find the manager?"
5. HUH? YOU GET OFF WORK WHEN? YOU WANT TO MEET ME WHERE? (Loudly!)
6. Just smile politely and say, "That's ma'am/miss, please" but dont walk away-patiently wait for a response, looking them directly in the eyes. (always give someone a chance to do the right thing, or hang themselves!)

I strongly recomend #6, unless you are being treated exceptionally rudely. You are, after all, an ambassador for many others to come after you.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wendy360

....... he says..."do you want anything else...SIR" ..........

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No Miss, I think you've had too much of my business already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wendy360

Thanks everyone for the incourageing words.
I'm 6'5 and wear 2xl tops, I'm not fat I wear size 9 jeans . . .

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[SIZE=4]Size 9 jeans would seem to be out of proportion to 2X tops. I wonder if hip pads would make any difference.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Good for you for perseverance.[/SIZE]
:)
[SIZE=4]Marie-Claire[/SIZE]