Am I totally naive?

I haven't been a member of this board for to long, and I have to admit that before joining it I was pretty clueless to a lot it seems. I knew, or thought I knew at least some of the terminology,transexual,gay,bi,crossdresser,transge nder.etc. I had no idea that in the "spectrum" ( a new term for me) of the transgenderd that they were groups within the group. I had no idea of the infighting and dirision, or of the so called pecking order that some feel exists. I am not so child like that I don't know that people are not always going to agree with one another ....wouldn't that be boring. I also knew that the mainstream had some no very nice thoughts regarding we who are outside the rhelm of what most consider "normal". Still I had faith in the human condition. Here I am living as a woman 24/7. I have job, a home, friends, a mingle with the mainstreamers on a daily basis. Noboby has tried to club me over the head even though I am sure that some wouldn't have a problem doing just that. Iam pretty much able to come and go as I please save for places that may not even be safe for so called "normal" people to go. People do bad things to other people..fact of life. Murder,rape robbery..it's a sad fact of life. I don't feel that I am so special, I have to take my chances just like everyone else does. people who do those type things are going to do them if the opportunity presents itself..no matter who they feel like perpetrating it against, a gay, a crossdresser,tS,boy,girl,man woman,black...I think you get the idea. Sometimes people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
There are laws to protect all people,but they are only as good as the people who obey them....in terms of violence. In terms of job discrimination and such..now we're talking a different story.
I am getting off track here. ...so as I was saying.
So here I am walking around blissfully ignorant of the dangers that could befall me. And all of a sudden people are telling me that gays don't like me, and tS don't like Cd'er's and society hates the whole kit and kabootle of us.
What I need to do is to lose my individuality and adopt the herd mentality,because some feel that there is safety in numbers, and that I should keep my sexuality to myself, because it shows that I am different from you, and that takes from the herd and thus divides us. And the sad part is that it divides us from within our own spectrum. because some of us have our own predjudices, and we complain about other people from outside...having predudice against us.
My question is this... Am I just a naive kid, or have I just not become jaded as I feel many here have. Am I living in a fantasy world that only exists in my mind, or is there hope that I can continue to live and be happy as I have been doing for the past 4 years or so?

Kelly

I keep hearing that gays hate CDers too. I know the one I married doesn't. None of the ones I know do, but I keep hearing it. Gay CDs are inconvienent when people are yelling "CD'S ARE STRAIGHT". I keep meeting people in society that don't hate me. Oddly the most homophobia I've encountered lately has been from the "straight" CDs.

It appears you are no longer naive. I think that you are now aware that you have led a sheltered life. :)

I know what you are saying. And it falls under the generality that often sweeps the posts here (guilty). I goad and prod trying to get people to look around and see that we should not be complacent. Not fearful but aware.

Learn well grasshopper :)

Kelly,

When I hear the comments on decisiveness on this site within the spectrum of transgenders, I wonder where the writers see that, or if they have a better ability to read between the lines than I do (probably the correct reason!). More towards answering your question, I think that you are living in the real world and because of your positive attitude and coresponding personality, you are reaping the rewards of who you are. Does that mean that maybe one of those strange violent or uncomfortable situations may not occurr? I think not. Bad things happen to a lot of innocent people once in awhile, for no particuar reason at all. So keep on doing whatever works for you. I believe that attitude is so important to be successful in just being yourself. It is not easy transitioning and living normally here. However, with the correct approach and attitude, I believe that it can be done with great results.

There are small groups of haters.
in the gay commnity, lesbian community and het community. Even the TS community has the HBS CD-haters and there are CDs that hate TSs.

In each of those the haters are the minority. But we need protection from their violence and discrimination and also society tends to listen to the haters complaints more than us as they are (currently) louder and even the accepting folk assume the haters are the majority because they are loudest.

But the latest Australian poll has 85% in favour of federal antidiscrimination protection on sexuality and gender identity! 85%!!!

The silent majority accept us. A loud but tiny minority hate us.

Personally Kelly, I think your an incredible TS woman living her dream and so free spirited, which is a blessing..
So I wouldn't change a thing, just keep living as you are and do what you want to do, then you will never have any regrets that way..
If know one else likes it...I say F*** off.. :tongueout LOL
:hugs:

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Originally Posted by Miranda-E

I keep hearing that gays hate CDers too. I know the one I married doesn't. None of the ones I know do, but I keep hearing it. Gay CDs are inconvienent when people are yelling "CD'S ARE STRAIGHT". I keep meeting people in society that don't hate me. Oddly the most homophobia I've encountered lately has been from the "straight" CDs.

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That is a good point. It is not really hatred by gays but more like the little sibling they don't really want to have with them. We (yes I said we as a group) don't have the same agenda ( I am NOT gay dammit!) but we want to hang on the gay coat tails. For the TG's here who are gay and have found partners, you know that there is a limited pool who like men who present as female. It isn't what gay means for the most part. Yet even within our group the view that one must be gay to wear the clothes is ingrained.

Hate is a big word. Dislike, more and fearful definitely. There is a section that does hate "us" just as they hate anything they don't understand.

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Originally Posted by Karen564

Personally Kelly, I think your an incredible TS woman living her dream and so free spirited, which is a blessing..
So I wouldn't change a thing, just keep living as you are and do what you want to do, then you will never have any regrets that way..
If know one else likes it...I say F*** off.. :tongueout LOL
:hugs:

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I agree!

I can't think of why they would hate us for being who we are thay are different and I would think they don't want to be hated for who they are. I gess it comes down to the saying One bad apple.:hugs:
Angie

Hug?:koc:

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

My question is this... Am I just a naive kid, or have I just not become jaded as I feel many here have. Am I living in a fantasy world that only exists in my mind, or is there hope that I can continue to live and be happy as I have been doing for the past 4 years or so?

Kelly

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No, you're not a naive kid.
Yes, you have not become jaded.
No, you are not living in a fantasy world.
Yes, there is hope.

The thing is there's too much opportunity for introspection in here. I have also found that getting out and living life as yourself is quite simple. You go and do it. You treat others as you wish to be treated yourself and it works. People accept you for who you are. In my experience I had more hate and discrimination issues when I lived life as a man. I was miserable then and I'm not now. That's got to be good, right?

So you keep at it Kelly, got to enjoy life to the full :)

Sarah...

Then, there's those DARN fetish CDs! Whose preoccupation with SEX, messes up pure TS's doctrine!? Giving ALL TG/CDs a bad name? Don't u wish they'd just disappear?:heehee:

I USED to feel that was true. But, I've learned from this site, that some TS's r among the most loving, accepting people on earth!:hugs:

Like it or not, we're a diverse group here. Same as ANY large group of folks! In many ways, quite different. In others, much the same!

You're RITE, Kelly!
To live your life YOUR WAY! And NOT give in to HATE or FEAR!:eek:

Kelly. Live your life and be happy. People will be the way they are and there is nothing we can do about it.

On the Gay/TG/TS/CD issue. That is really complicated and multi layered. I don't think they hate us. They are just not into us. And I think people sometimes people want to be accepted so badly that they take any indifference to mean that they are not liked. Then they project that out for everyone.

I mix with all sorts, CD's, TV's TS's, gays and straights and get on with them all. There are a few idiots out there but in general the world is a tolerating, accepting place

Kelly... We've shared a lot over the months and you know I share your thoughts on most things... We just live life. :)

Lisa xxxx

I simply believe life is what you make it. You can let jaded, unhappy people get to you or keep your head up high and rise above it all. You come off as a very positive lady, so I really would hate to see that part of you go, but it's all up to you.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

It appears you are no longer naive. I think that you are now aware that you have led a sheltered life.
I know what you are saying. And it falls under the generality that often sweeps the posts here (guilty). I goad and prod trying to get people to look around and see that we should not be complacent. Not fearful but aware.

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A good book on becoming aware is "The Gift of Fear" written by Gavin de Becker. I have always thought that this book was required reading for my daughters. Most people are completely oblivious to things going on around them.

There are real dangers, from a tiny minority.
A loud minority but a tiny one.
The majority of people accept us fairly well and that's growing in most places e.g. http://humanrights.gov.au/about/medi...009/57_09.html

But our community, especially portions of it covered by intersections of discrimination, do suffer greater risk than average.
We need to be aware of the dangers and act against them for our personal safety and our community safety but not be held hostage by fear and trapped in the closet.

Hi Kelly-

Girl, as far as I can see from your posts and so on, you're just living your life the way you want to live it. Sure, we're all exposed to dangers of various sorts in our lives and should be aware of what goes on around us and use common sense to avoid them. A friend, a very close and special tgirl friend is Native American and uses an old proverb in her signature line, "A life lived in fear is a life half-lived."

As far as the thread I believe you were referring to, it was somewhat dismaying to me to see so much unabashed condescension being trotted out for all to see. This isn't really anything unusual, though. I belong to several different TG sites and it's fairly common. To me it boils down to an essential split among personality types, some people are "splitters" and, consciously or not, emphasize differences within a group. Others are "lumpers" and tend to emphasize the things that are shared within the group. Just the way people are.

Thanks for the post, Kelly. Keep on keepin' on, girl.

Hugs...Joni Mari

Kelly, Even within the gay community there is a dislike from "bears" to "twinks" and "jocks". Or is the in the "straight" and "normal" that don't like "suit" and "bikers" and "jocks" and "barbies" or "kens". Everyone has a dislike for what doesn't meet with their approval of what is acceptable in life.

Yes there are ppl out there that live in glass houses (even gays) that throw theis stones at those of us that are TG/CD. We just have to learn to duck and not throw any rocks back at them. Now if I can learn to bend my knees before the rocks hit my me (ouch!), I didn't duck quick enough. Dee

Kelly,

I don't think you are naive. I just think you are hopeful. Hopeful that people will treat others like they want to be treated.

At the same time, people have a tendency to form groups. Within groups we then form smaller groups. It is the nature of individuals within society.

We must all work to make sure that these groups don't lead us to ostracize other groups.

People are social creatures, and group mentalities will always form.

Hiya Kelly, I am a CD who believes he is straight. I believe that any one of us from straight cd to a gay/lesbian trans should be able to be how we are. You have my total backing to be the person you want to be. I hope that the divisions in this spectrum dont pull it apart. We need to be together to gain any kind of acceptance, please remember that.

PEACE AND LOVE KAYLEE XXX

I just don't think you're jaded. I think you're right on track with what your thoughts are. Granted at the same time, I think you have a little too much faith in the human condition. I only say that because I'm very much like you in believing in people- I get let down a lot. Just continue to be true to who you are and don't worry about the rest of the "herd".

Kelly, it is like this -
the true hiearchy of the TG spectrum has to do with how well someone passes normally. It doesn't really have to do with how they identify on the gender spectrum.
You know you are not going to see a really passable TS woman hanging out with let's say, a beginner, someone who is instantly detected all the time. The more passable one will worry about being outed, guilty by association type thing. Except the truely passable, the rest tend to worry about this.
Often the really pretty or passable ones tend to think they are too good for anyone except other "Beautiful" ones. Of course they would never admit to that.

As far as gay/lesbian and TG - TG are just not the same from a cultural aspect. Gender identity and sexual preference are two different things.

Think of this - a TG woman, regardless of passability, will normally try to blend in. Well drag queens kind of stand out but yeah... Yet sometimes you see gay or lesbian making it very evident that they are gay/les.

Myself - I could care less what the gays and lesbians think of me. I am not in their club and just don't care. For other TG, I will be cool with them and associate, regardless of their passability, but once again I could care less what they think. I am more concerned with what non-GLBT people think.

And kelly -
This whole hiearchy thing, you will probably not have to deal with cause you happen to be passable and all that. Those of us who don't pass as well or not at all are the ones who get to enjoy the internal discrimination.

Keep living your life and ignore the whiners and complainers who have to say they are better than this group or another group. I admire both of you, you are both beautiful and caring women who have the courage to be themselves and not judge others. If all TS'sers, CD'der's or TG folks lived their life as both of you do, this world would be a beautiful. Whatever you do don't change stay who you are.. Kimberly :battingeyelashes:

Thank all of you for your kind words. I do have more to say on the subject,but tomrrow is another day.I am whooped.
Kel

The problem "as I see it" is that this site and all sites like this are populated with people! I'm sorry but I won't believe in a utopian Ideal as long as human beings are involved. Discrimination is an equal opportunity condition. We are all guilty to a certain degree!

:sad:Kelsy

Where does this whole hiearchy thing exist? Where on earth do these factions collide? Is it in boards like these? gay bars? TS clubs? In private or public view? Is is prevalent,is it incidental,or common place?
Nicole, are you attacking me in some subtle fashion, by saying ..it's easy for you to say,because you pass? Does a statement such at that maybe cause others to take a closer look, and say ..yeah, she passes so what the hell is she talking about? Does it make me seem less credible because you see me as different than you? By saying that it's easier for me than you, aren't you in a sense pushing me up the so called hiearchy? Here I am am just walking along dum dee dum dum dum, and because I look a certian way, am I suspect? Even if someone doesn't know me from Eve? I am asking,not accusing,because someone else said to me...... Why do you have to label yourself as a transexual rather than just transgendered? Dosen't that suggest that you are more or better than just a CD'er? I l label myself a transexual,because I am a transexual,plain and simple..no better or worse than anybody else. I truly don't understand this
Kelly

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

Where does this whole hiearchy thing exist? Where on earth do these factions collide? Is it in boards like these? gay bars? TS clubs? In private or public view? Is is prevalent,is it incidental,or common place?
Nicole, are you attacking me in some subtle fashion, by saying ..it's easy for you to say,because you pass? Does a statement such at that maybe cause others to take a closer look, and say ..yeah, she passes so what the hell is she talking about? Does it make me seem less credible because you see me as different than you?

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I think a lot of this hierchy exists only in peoples heads. Whenever I go out to a trans friendly place, I get treated very well by all. There are always a few exceptions but thats because there are unfriendly people in the world everywhere you go, a few bad apples doesn't make the whole group bad though. I have never experienced anything that would make me think one group is superior or inferior to another whether it be CDing or a Transgendered person.

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Originally Posted by JodyCD

I think a lot of this hierchy exists only in peoples heads. Whenever I go out to a trans friendly place, I get treated very well by all. There are always a few exceptions but thats because there are unfriendly people in the world everywhere you go, a few bad apples doesn't make the whole group bad though. I have never experienced anything that would make me think one group is superior or inferior to another whether it be CDing or a Transgendered person.

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Likewise, I haven't had any bad experiences either??? Living in Las Vegas gives you a lot more choices as to where to go out. I have never been much for gay bars or TG places. Never really into the scene. I have a lot of TG and gay friends,but we mostly hang out in neutral places. Not by design,but more happenstance. Dancing, shows, concerts..We just hang out according to what we want to do that night.Most of my gay friends don't even hit the gay bars as they tend to be meet markets here.

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Originally Posted by Karen564

Personally Kelly, I think your an incredible TS woman living her dream and so free spirited, which is a blessing..
So I wouldn't change a thing, just keep living as you are and do what you want to do, then you will never have any regrets that way..

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Karen posted exactly what I feel about your question. I would only add live and enjoy your life and don't care about the world.
And try to be proud of what you are!
:love: