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I have been watching the introductions today since I inserted my own introduction.
I am stunned at how many new introductions there are for just today.
Think about it, there must be thousands of us out there!
When you see people walk by, surely there are several men in the crowd who would much rather be wearing something pretty, but can't.
I have never seen a guy in public in a skirt, for instance. Why not? Are we mice or men!
Hi Meri
I moved your post here to its own thread as I think it would be an interesting topic for members to discuss :)
Mice.. I am mouse hear me squeak.. I do think there just has got to be a greater number of cross dresser than shows here.. mostly you have to consider the fact that most guys who have urges to wear something other then regular men wear may not think that wearing that skirt means they are a cross dresser at all.. or those who dress in the name of fetish on a drunken Saturday night at a friends house who's girlfriend is passed out.. then there are those who don't know about this site.. or who just don't care to reach out on the internet.. I would say maybe a tenth of men who can reach out to this or other sites have done so.. maybe even less.. the true number might surprise people.. even those who say they would never wear a dress probably fantasize about it once in their lives... as far as wearing in public and not trying to pass:: I'd love to do that.. just slip a skirt and heels n hose on and not worry about passing... ultimate fantasy for me..
I agree with Carly, there must be many crossdressing men who never reach out in any way whatsoever, far more, I suspect, than those of us who do.
That said, I would guess that the biggest percentage of those of us who do reach out via the web, would view this as their only avenue of being able to share their love of things femme with others, leaving a relatively small percentage of girls who venture out in public in their finest.
Its no surprise to me that the sighting of a crossdressed man, in a public space, is a rather rare thing (depending where you live, of course). The social taboo attached to our art will prove a difficult one to break down, as it takes an awful lot of courage to leave yourself so wide open to abuse.
I wish I had more courage.........and a better figure.
Stay safe xx
Chances are very good that you have seen CD's or other Trans folks in opposite sex garb and just not realized it. There are people who "pass" very easily. Not the average for sure, but definitely not uncommon either. Also, try going to a alt friendly place (gay bar for example) and you'll have your "sighting" in no time ;)
Just noticed this thread ... take a quick look:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=111969
They say that statistically (groan) that the CD population is 1 in 10 - I think that this proportion is a little is a bit generous - but there are a lot of us out there!
Only thousands? :) Conservative estimates would suggest hundreds of thousands in the USA alone...
As long as I know that's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by cassandra2601
I have read statistics that mention about 10% of the world's population as crossdressers.
Of course it vary in different countries but that seems to be the average.
Not bad...isn't it?:daydreaming:
There is a huge closet for crossdressers. Most of us never venture past the closet door. We do not see very many crossdressers on the streets because they are rarely out and about. It is difficult to define what makes one a crossdresser, is it one who tried on a garment once, or one who is dressed 24/7 or someplace in between. There have been very few studies of crossdressers and fewer still that attempt to estimate our numbers.
I always doubt these numbers about 10% of the population being crossdressers. But!! If you removed all barriers and made it easy to CD. Yeap you might get 10% that from time to time would CD.
I base that on some online games like Pirates of the Burning Sea where I saw around 10% or more of the guys in the games use female avatars. Its fun to be pretty! :daydreaming:
But in RL its not so easy. Family guys might not be able to experiment. It cost money to buy cloths and makeup, its taboo and finally it takes skill to do it right!
You will only notice those that don't pass.
I went over to Japan to meet my girlfriend Last New Years. Saw several outfits that were bizarre like 80's punk bands. Sat down next to a really pretrty lady on a train once, She was impolitely using her cell phone, hearing her voice...I still wonder if it was a guy dressed. She sounded like a guy, and had the vocal ques of a guy speaking Japanese. You never know though.
I suspect several percent would be realistic.
Brina
After doing a quick search I found that the 10% figure for MTF crossdressing is a little exaggerated. This figure would probably include guys who have maybe once or twice worn an article of female clothing during their lives. Hardly crossdressing in the sense that we know it here!
K.
I'd say more like millions. As in more than one million or two million. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by meri
It's frequently on my mind when I'm out in public. Is it the guy working the checkout line? Is it man walking down the street with a briefcase? Maybe it's that guy walking happily with his girlfriend, hand in hand... longing to wear HER clothes. Maybe the other guys are looking around wondering if it's me, too.Quote:
When you see people walk by, surely there are several men in the crowd who would much rather be wearing something pretty, but can't.
If I'm a crossdresser, I'm obviously anything I WANT to be regardless of the social taboo. Even so, going out in public en femme can be a dangerous game around here. I can be quite a mighty lion and then some... but it will do little good if I am attacked by a pack of hyenas. That is why I spend my time trying to change the game, rewrite the rules, and educate people. Won't happen soon enough, but I feel it necessary to do my part. :)Quote:
I have never seen a guy in public in a skirt, for instance. Why not? Are we mice or men!
Welcome to the forum, btw. :)
Gee, according to my math, if even 1% of the US population (305 million) are MTF CD inclined, (which I think is way too low and am guessing 3 t0 5% at least) would give us a CD population of about 1.5 million, roughly half the total population of Denver Metro area. My guess is probably closer to 3 to 5 million MTF CDs in the US who dress at some level when they can or really wish they could (do these count?).
But remember, my guess and a credit card will get you a Mocha Latte at Starbucks! But if we were playing horseshoes, I'd have a pretty good score. Still a lot of folks no matter what.
ChanDelle
How did you come to know the actual gender of the people behind the female avatars? There could be far more than 10% that never tell you. I've seen estimates from 10% to over 50% of Second Life female avatars are driven by men. My personal guess - and it's just a guess - is that the sex fantasy females, six feet tall with anorexic-thin waists and boobs the size of the Himalayas, are all driven by male players. But that's just because I'm an enlightened (yeah, right) guy who can't believe any self-respecting woman would want to objectify herself like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deidra Cowen
There have been several articles on the subject, and guys are cagey about their reasons. The most popular reason is "If I'm going to have to look at a person running around the computer screen for hours on end, I might as well look at someone attractive." I'm perfectly willing to speculate that they have more embarrassing reasons and obviously won't come right out and say "I always wanted to be a girl, so it's fun to pretend for a while" - but we're just speculating with no hard evidence of what anyone's motives are.
Ralph they were in my clan, guild whatever you call it. You can hear their guy voices on voicecomms (teamspeak) and heck they admit its them with the fem avatar.
I played as a guy in the guild but had an second acct for Deidra but I did not try to ever talk on voicecomms with my fem character. My biggest shortcoming is my voice! Dang it! :Angry3:
I agree with what you said about motives and not being sure...but regardless find it interesting that so many guys do go with fem avatars and yes they pickout sexy outfits and all that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph
With the kind of numbers we are tossing about, we could effect changes in the attitude of the rest of the population -- if we were organized and out-spoken. We could come out of our closets and onto mainstreet anytime we feel like it.
Women crossdress on a regular basis, I have seen the same women go from all girly to workboots and jeans the span of a single day. There is really no reason why we can't have the same freedom. Yes, I know about WWII and the impact on their clothing, it's just a shame we don't have a similar event to cause a change for us.
Frankly, I believe that the restrictive and punitive nature of our Western culture is one of the reasons so many of us go to such extremes in dressing. If we were in a 100% loving and accepting culture, I would probably do little more than wear a skirt and decorate my nails. Why go through all the trouble of fully dressing?
If you accept that line of thinking, then we are all a little damaged by our culture.
Again, in my mind, the answer is balance....
I suspect that we top the million mark, easily. Sure, we've got so many members, but there are so many visitors who lurk around here too (read but don't sign up or post).
Furthermore, I agree with everyone else who says that many of us don't reach out and there are even younger cds like me who never even heard of this site because they're using social networking sites instead.
Likely range is between 5% and 10% of the male population.
I'm a mouse. But can you say that to my face.LOL..... Go for it.LMAO
[qoute] I have never seen a guy in public in a skirt, for instance. Why not? Are we mice or men! [/quote]
Anti-drama mice. I don't need any more aggravation in my life than I already have. Wearing anything feminine in my profession would just make everyone feel the stereotype is correct, that we're all gay. It's hard enough trying to convince women to date me as it is.
I have never seen a CD in public in a skirt or dress but I have seen several members of this forum from the state I live in.
I did once see a CD at a Wal Mart once,she had a scruffy beard,breast forms,skinny jeans,and heels on,I smiled at her,and she smiled back,thats the only time I saw a CD in public.
Where's the cheese!!!!!:lol2: Just kidding!! :) It is interesting to note that since I've been on this site and have been developing my own style more fully, I do find myself looking around at other men and wonder if they're hiding a secret as well!!
I really don't see how ANY of the estimates can be correct. A closet is a very tiny place for CD's to hide in. I haven't received any census cards mailed out (at least I haven't received mine yet :sad: ) asking that question. And I haven't been addressed with a pollster at a mall yet. ( Then again maybe they just took it for granit that the man in the dress was a CD :eek: )
Oh I know that they speculate - some using the old " but 1 out of 10 emergency room patients ....". But then who says CD's aren't enherintly better drivers or less clumsy so less of us end up in the emergency room! :dance:
Just my thoughts.:daydreaming:
Hmmm....0.1% of the male adult population of California would mean about 13,000 guys have the desire + the looks to pass convincingly as women, sounds about rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Katie B
I just some time's wonder when I'm out in drab walking or driving down the road or sitting at a red light wonder if the person I pass or the guy sitting next to me at the red light is a CDer. It is something that i'm sure alot of us CDer's think about in our daily activities.
Based on being involved in gender stuff for decades, my opinion currently is that we're somewhere between 5 and 10% of the population, probably somewhere around the middle of that range. Going with the lower figure of 5%, based on roughly 148,000,000 males in the US currently, 5% of that is 7,420,500 CD's or potential CD's in the case of little kids. That's a LOT of CD's.
But I think that most CD's limit themselves to stuff like underdressing on occasion and aren't interested in being part of a group, mainly because they're so paranoid about someone finding out their secret. I feel that CD's who are brave enough to do something like signing up for membership here are a small minority of the whole.
I'm in the suburbs of Chicago, and I do occasionally see a CD out in public. My all time high count out here in the boonies is 3 CD's in one day. Of course, in the gay neighborhood in Chicago, out-and-about TG people are more common.
Carol
Well Katie, I guess I’m just not as easily convinced as you with polls. Before grabbing the rain coat I would at least check to see if the windshield washers were off, let alone look for clouds. I feel a little research of my own before just taking the word of someone should be in order.
Think of the legendary 1948 Chicago Daily Tribune headline “Dewey Defeats Truman.”
Or from USA TODAY in 2005… “The exit polls of voters on Election Day so overstated Sen. John Kerry's support that they rank as the most inaccurate in a presidential election since at least 1988”
And since you brought up the UK, how about..The European Medical Journal Special Monograph On Transvestism/Crossdressing which is based on questionnaires that were completed by 414 British males during July and August 1995 and on written communications from over 600 other British males during the same period. “Some authorities have claimed that as many as 50% of men have, at some time or another, dressed partly or completely in women’s clothes.” Not 25% as you suggest in your post.
But that was years ago, so let’s get the inside “scoop” from today’s world. David W. Moore, a former senior editor at Gallup Poll for 13 years had this to say
“ I believe that polls that deal with people’s personal experiences can be valid representations of what the public at large is thinking. For example, a question in a recent Gallup Poll asked respondents if they thought they were financially better off or worse off now than they were a year ago. In that type of question, there’s no reason not to believe what people tell the pollsters. That kind of poll has been tremendously important in helping us understand American culture, showing how people live, what their concerns are, what makes them happy. My reservation comes from polls in two specific areas: pre-election polls and polls that are designed to measure people’s opinions about public policy matters. In those areas, I have real reservations about the validity of polls, and I don’t think we can trust the polls to give us an accurate representation of what the public is thinking.”
Now, he did not expand on what “public policy” is – but one could reasonable assume crossdressing in public falls into public policy? Don’t really know, do we? The fact remains .. polls can be flawed. Are people being polled about crossdressing being asked by men, women, other crossdressers, a group of BIG BIKERS ? When the person is polled are they by themselves or walking in a mall with other people, etc… What group is poling and what are the hopes for the pole? I would think if a Gay Pride sponsor hired a pollster the desired outcome would be different than say if Jimmy Swaggart did the hiring.
Not trying to pick a fight with you Hun. Just expressing my opinion on why I question other people’s research and polls on a very unpopular subject. You’re allowed your opinion and sources and I’m allowed mine. We just have to agree to disagree is all.
But I do have to say I personally disagree on your end response “And, puh-lease, don't anybody write in saying you "don't believe the figures" - produce better ones! Anyone who wants to can write to me privately…..” That’s just too close to the popular media trick of printing the editorials with the desired slant and withholding others from public view. (If it’s in print.. it has to be true doesn’t it?)
I don't want to hijack a thread with you and me cat fighting, so if you feel a need to reply just know that I will let you have the last word and I won't reply - so there is and end.