As a Transgendered person, Do you feel you are more sensitive to womens issues and supportive of womens rights because of your female gender identity ? Just wondering .
Thank you ,
springtime GG :hugs:
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As a Transgendered person, Do you feel you are more sensitive to womens issues and supportive of womens rights because of your female gender identity ? Just wondering .
Thank you ,
springtime GG :hugs:
I do not feel any different about rights issues. All people are created equal and should get equal rights and treatment in all circumstances.
Although I am definitely a Crossdresser, I do not consider myself to be Transgendered! Especially since I have no desire at all to be a woman! I just like to dress like one.Quote:
Originally Posted by springtime
Now with that our of the way, I agree with Allie. We are all equal, and should be treated that way. The rights that are granted to us by the powers that be should apply equally to everyone, regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation, or how one dresses! Granted, women should not have to share a public bathroom with men, unless the man in question is presenting as a woman! But that is not a question of right, that is a question of legality, or decency! I go out dressed as a woman, but looking like a man. No wig and no makeup. So I use the men's restroom!!
I will really get flamed for this, but don't most women always have "issues?" I have been around for a long time, and known a lot of women and they all have issues all the time! After a while, the sensitivity becomes dulled!!:2c:
I've identified as a feminist (Third Wave) since 1991. So, for me, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by springtime
On a less serious note:Yep, I'm one of those "man hating ugly bra burners who don't want to dress like women and want to be men" as they've sometimes been stereotyped around here. I'm a Charter member of the she-woman man-haters club. Down with the patriarchy. :-)
Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.
Well, since people who know I am TG, well women who know, still see me as male, then honestly I don't really care about women's rights.
If GG's cannot accept me as one of them, meaning I don't have the same rights or priveledges, then what does it matter?
Women and rights? Whose idea was that?
I'm all for women burning their bras. And clothes, too. But only the hot young nubile ones.
My understanding of, and appreciation for, women's rights, came long before I had any idea that I was a Crossdresser or transgendered. By the time I was aware enough of others to be able to figure out that some of the girls were at least as smart as I was, equal rights was an obvious consequence -- one can hardly deny equality to someone who is obviously not your inferior. I understood "fair" before I understood "rights". (Of course, that brief summary still leaves a big gap into which the "equal but separate" arguments fall.)Quote:
Originally Posted by springtime
"Women's issues"... in my formative years, my family was early-70's Gloria Steinem type feminist; I probably, through listening to talk at home, knew more about Women's Issues than any of my classmates or teachers did. It has taken me decades to recover from that :straightface: . The "Women's Issues" that I learned then have become considerably more refined and splintered and factioned, and these days, to be considered a Feminist by some groups is to be considered anti-Feminist by other groups... and the groups definitely went through long periods where they applied the Law Of The Excluded Middle: "If you aren't for us, if you don't believe in everything we say, then you are against us!"... and the next group over, which differed on one or two points, was the enemy of the first group, and to refuse to publicly side with one of them was to be declared an enemy of both. So... these days I don't know if I am a Feminist, because I no longer know what that means... and because I am a free-thinker who refuses to play the "If you aren't willing to martyr yourself for our exact cause, then you are crud" game.
One thing I can say: every time I get "dressed up nicely", because I like to look and feel nice, I am implicitly betraying what the feminists of my formative years were fighting for, when to deliberately look attractive was to be a tool of the patriarchy, and it was one's duty to reject pantyhose and heels and nice dresses and so on....
I am not a RG but a cross dresser. even before i started cding, I believed in equal rights.
women dont need any special rights, only they have to be treated equally, which is not the case, especially in my country, where they r exploited most
TG/CD or not, I feel that everyone needs to be treated equally. And those that forcefully remove that equality from others need to be punished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandra-leigh
May she eternally walk over the hot coals.
Hi...
Womans right.s ....
Well not quite right .
It.s really been men.s rights over woman . lets look at our english back ground . what was it. you got married . we were just chatles . had no say .no vote & nore even owned any thing . the man was the. right . sex what rights are there . the mans force . who ran the govt.s do i need say more . now what has changed . you can answer that . mans attatude has it changed ,
Man has he changed ... no.. he kills our women . our children . & any thing he gets his hands on . are all men like this. you answer .
Im going back 45 years i.m 62 now . . its worse now than when i was a young so called boy . no wonder i hated being around men . they put women down thier thoughts were in the pit . just a sex object . nothing more . & then on to the next one .
Put a group of men on an island with one woman what would happen .
Oh we have rights . yes to be raped. killed.. murdered.. & left for dead .. i know...
My mum would have been murdered by the man who married my mum . & yes strangled .
So dont talk about us women having rights . we dont . if we did we could walk down the street at any time or hour & be safe . . i.m not hot under the coller . i just happen to live in the real world . & i dont like what i know & see .
This is just a little part of being a woman with rights .......
I dont blame every man I just know what you are capable of .
...noeleena...
Hiss! She did good work, and did you know that she often got lambasted by other feminists for being to feminine looking and using her appearance to get media access and not being radical enough? Now I'm not really a fan, because most of what she did and fought for benefited upper middle class white women more than anything and she's not overly fond of "us", and I don't consider myself a member of the "Second Wave" like Ms. Steinem, but I'm willing to cut her some slack. She helped blaze the trail for other modern feminists (including the later Third Wave) to follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissConstrued
Janice Raymond and Andrea Dworkin on the other hand, and the modern sepratist feminists, I don't care for at all.
Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.
When I was growing up, I had a close relationship with my mom. It was just the two of us; because of that I've always been sensitive to women’s issues. It has always been hard for me to understand why people (males and females) were treated differently. When I started going out as a crossdresser, I really started to notice and understand differences a little better. As a guy, I would walk down the street at night and not feel any fear; as a girl it is a lot different (this is just one item).
I have been married to the same lady since we were 19 years old. We have three daughters and one granddaughter. My wife has tried to be understanding of my transgender feelings and for the most part supported and helped me. We go out clothes shopping all of the time and I can dress at home or go out basically anytime that I would like.
About eight years ago, I did some volunteer work with domestic violence victims; this involved extensive training (almost 50 hours) and a background check. This was a real eye opener for me. After this, I've seen and felt discrimination from both sides. Here I am a male, sensitive to female issues and viewed as the enemy by some because I am male; wow, I just don't get it. It is difficult to understand, and there is no way that you can talk to people that don’t want to listen. Because of this it is sometimes difficult for me to understand some of the things that go on in our community as well.
I became interested in bellydance about six years ago and have talked to several dancers. We found that there are a lot of similarities between bellydance and crossdressing; at least as far as society is concerned, or views them.
Bellydance is all about femininity and movement; and I decided to take some classes about three years ago. The instructor has been great and has helped me a lot with feminine movement. She seemed to understand or be sensitive to me being transgendered; and she would talk to me about it all of the time. I always dressed (for the class) with an androgynous look, my hair is long, and it was usually down. We always dance barefooted and about half of the time my toes are painted. Last year she told me of another transgendered girl taking some of her evening classes. Most of my classes had about 4 to 6 students, all female except for me (or including me). At the end of each class our instructor would say, "alright ladies, thank you for coming and I'll see you next week". Sometimes she would tease me if I didn't do something right and she would say to me, "bad girl".
That was the way our class would be and it was fun, until several months ago. I had a bad cold or allergies this spring and missed several months of class. I called the instructor to check if she was still teaching the same days and she said yes, so I told her I would see her on Tuesday; she said that would be great (it was a couple weeks into the quarter of this class session). So I showed up the next Tuesday and there were four new students, and I was introduced to each one. They all seemed really nice and the class was great. The next day, the instructor called and told me that after class, all of the students met after I left and discussed me and then told the instructor that they didn't feel comfortable with me in the class. I really felt like I was put in an awkward position, the instructor would loose four students if I didn't leave. Until this point I really liked taking this class, now I'm just annoyed. I really have become very disillusioned by this and some other similar situations.
I guess I have become a victim of womens rights and it really doesn't feel very good.
Oh, blather.
As much as I hate that douchebag Rush Limbaugh, he's got feminists pegged right -- a movement for unattractive women, jealous of other women who get by on their looks.
Before realizing that part of myself I've always found the issue ridiculous. Feel the same way now.
*For clarity* I find it ridiculous we still have to fight these battles at all. For any sex, race, whatever. Humanity claims to be so enlightened yet still having these things around is a slap in the face to everyone, just hope people finally catch on to that.
Smile when you say that, pardner.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissConstrued
You're tarring all feminists, including the 19th century and modern ones with the brush of the Second Wave separatists there. I'm a feminist. Let me say that again, I'm a feminist. So where do I fit into your hypothesis?
Now you may have heard, some years back that Cosmopolitan magazine did a bunch of articles in one of their issues. One of the statements they made was: Is the Cosmo Girl a feminist? Yes she is."
Would you like to know of where I first heard of Third Wave feminists Naomi Wolf and Susan Faludi? Glamour Magazine. Guess what both of them were wearing in the interview Glamour did with them together...skirts.
Do you know what dyke-baiting is in context of the feminist movement? It bascially comes down to this:
"All those feminists are a bunch of ugly dykes who can't get a man"
Do I fit your original statement? I'm not an "ugly dyke", not yet anway, but hopefully someday. :-)
And as I've mentioned before, there were men at the original Seneca Falls conference and there were men among the founding members of NOW.
That's sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by danar
I think the real problem is that the new students don't know you like the previous ones did, so they perhaps haven't picked up your difference, or don't understand it. I think you should take a pro-active stance and talk to the teacher and openly say things that perhaps you should say, and perhaps ask to talk to the students about their concerns, ask them why they felt uncomfortable and if there was a way to help them feel more comfortable with you. Maybe you and the students could talk over a meal or something.
Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.
From the time I started working where I am now, until she retired and moved "back home", I was the friend of an attractive,charming, and naturally elegant woman who always dressed nicely (but not expensively) -- very much the kind of feminine ideal that many of the forum members aspire to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissConstrued
Everyone knew that behind the scenes, she was really the one running the show, keeping the local head boss on track, focused, practical, making sure he got where he needed to be, making sure that everything was ready on time for him -- and everyone knew that asking her "opinion" as to what the Boss might think was as good (or better) than asking the Boss himself for a decision, because once she had determined that something was fair and good, she could always talk the Boss around. He was the visionary figure-head, but she was the one who made the whole operation work. Definitely not someone who was "getting by on her looks".
And what was she getting paid for keeping the place running? With her 30 years of service, she was earning about $40K, while I (with my 3 years of semi-official service) in a position of very much lower responsibility than hers, was earning about $63K, and the senior division leaders who were only responsible for keeping their individual divisions running were earning about $82K -- and they were definitely more readily replaceable than she was. But she was doing "women's work", a "secretary", and the fundamental differentials in pay structures between "men's work" and "women's work" had been set back in the 1950's.
The (Canadian) federal court battle to force the organization to pay according to the worth of the work rather than according to outdated assumptions about "men have to be paid more because they are supporting their families", took 14 *years* -- and that was after a long process of complaints, rights tribunals, and victories in lower courts -- and forcing the organization to implement the high court equal-pay ruling required the lawsuit organizers to go back to federal court twice and prove breach of the original order, because the organization continued to fight, to delay, to propose "compromises", "hold studies", to do what-ever they could do to avoid paying reasonable back-pay and to avoid setting reasonable new pay structures.
Now, my lady friend never held truck with the wholesale overthrow of Society As We Know It, and probably never read much feminist theory at all: she knew without going deep that the hard-line "Change now!!" stance was just not where and who she was. But I know that she did believe that it was unfair that she was being paid so much less than unskilled men who were straight out of school but were in "men's positions". And so although she might not have been a "Feminist", by her calm but firm pushes for equality and justice for herself and others, she was a "feminist" and part of a "feminist movement".
Yes.
danar, Please , Please listen to Veronica Go back to class. It is YOUR RIGHT !
Belly dance is great exercize. Enjoy.
Perhaps, since you have taken this dance class , You have learned enough to start your own group. If I hadn't broken my back , I would take it.
But if you want to be there , GO !!!
:love: spring :love:
Vivre le difference!!!!
Having gotten that out of the way, I think that men and women should be supportive of each other and should behave in a manner which best benefits their families and society. Walk side by side, in the same direction, rather than one behind the other or alone.
Selfishness is counter-productive.
Absolutely yes, I think women have been given the short and messy end of the stick for years and deserve much better. There has been progress and, in general, there is a clearer understanding of what they have been fighting against and for. It really doesn't have anything to do with feminism, but with basic human rights. I've been with them and will remain so, although I don't know if it's because I crossdress.
There are other things that color my opinion on this.
One of the most anoying things that I have ever experienced was the change in political involvement at the end of the Draft and Vietnam war. Men and women participated as full partners in all kinds of activities to bring these two events to their conclusion. The women were there throughout but once there was no risk to being drafted and going off to war, the guys went back to TV, beer, school and sports. At the time the same women were still attempting to make progress with the Equal Rights Amendment, but without the vocal support of all those men who had disappeared from the movement, it died. I was embarrased by my fellow men who had behaved that way and moved these women up as role models in my world. Burned bras and political leaflets or high heels and efforts to crack the glass ceiling made no difference at that point. The cause was just they had my support.
Wow, what brought that on?Quote:
Originally Posted by MissConstrued
To answer the OP, I can't compare whether I'm more sensitive to women's issues since before I discovered the TG side of myself, all I really cared about in the world was whether Gilligan would get off that island.
Actually now that I think about it, 40 years later I still spend an inordinate amount of time wondering if Gilligan will ever make it.
I have to say yes because I honestly think one of the biggest reasons why society is still so judgmental against crossdressing is because of the inherent misogyny that still exists in our culture.
People freak out about crossdressing because women are seen as weaker and inferior. Why then would a man "lower" himself to dressing in women's clothes unless he is weaker and inferior too?
The more that everyone gains equal footing in this world, the better for everyone who is on the outside.
I would like to humbly suggest that I was already pro-womens rights before I embraced my feminine side, but nowadays I feel like I am even more sensitive to womens issues and supportive of womens rights - mostly in part because I am able to show empathy and also because my wife (who describes herself as a feminist) has helped me understand and has "educated me" even more on women's issues. She gave me books to read and we had lots of conversations about it.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again, IMHO the only way we as CDers will ever be truly be accepted is when women truly get an equal status in society with men. In other words a man who wants to be more feminine, is not seen by other men as "going down the scale". Why hasn't there ever been a female US President? Where are all the female military Generals? See what I mean? I happen to believe that the key to cding being more accepted is the empowerment of women. That’s why all cders should be interested in women’s issues to help women to level the playing field. You would think that CDers TG people as a whole ought to be strong allies of the feminine movement but unfortunately that's not always the case. :sad:
I'm not getting off the subject, but when I go out dressed, some guys (sometimes) sit near me and try to chat me up. They are smelly, unshaven and are often drunk. They always have the attitude of getting in womens pants, and thats all. I'm so sick of hearing random men say "Oh, shes got great boobs, whatever". Women are lovely, and they look lovely in beautiful dresses, and thats why I dress as beautiful as I can. I envy them. .....and these days, women are the stronger sex, cause of all the crap they've been given over the years. Thats just my opinion...
Think I'm joking? Then, I hope those that think I am, never end up in divorce court!:sad:
Where in MOST instances, your soon to be ex will be awarded the mine, and u, the SHAFT!:doh:
Want to see your kids once in awhile after the divorce? It will USUALLY be whenever SHE wants! If your CDing is brought up in court, u may not see them again until they graduate high school!:eek:
And, how much of that alimony and child support money MUST be spent on the kids?
If u said, "Zero", you're the winner!:balloons:
Ok, just my,:2c: I was trying to liten up things a bit!
Yes. I notice it more, and feel more need to act.
I also notice women responding positively to a guy supporting them at a moment they didn't expect it.
Yes, as CD/TG I am more sensitive to women's rights.
Michelle
Wow, you definitely need to find a new job! My wife has the same complaint, so she finally asked me to cut it out and treat her with more respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrettyFlowingGown
Quote:
Originally Posted by springtime
[SIZE="2"]Like some others here I’m not transgendered per se, but I am sensitive to womens’ issues. I always have been for as long as I can remember – you can’t spend time in the company of women without seeing (and hearing about) what they’re going through in this all-male universe.
My sister used to do medical coding for insurance purposes – just last night she was telling me how some “male enhancement” products are covered by Medicare, while some post-mastectomy therapies and treatments were not, at least initially. She went on to tell me how long it took for the insurance companies to come around and help their valuable female clients. She said to me “It just shows you who makes the rules in this world of ours!”
As far as “rights” are concerned, I don’t think anyone has any rights – the idea of “rights” was made up years ago by someone, most likely a man, for the purposes of power and control over others. Women certainly never entered into the equation, and that’s a bloody shame…[/SIZE]
From the historical facts i always thought of women as a "weaker" sex when i was younger because of their overall weakness when it comes to emotions, physical/body weakness due to low body muscle mass, less adventurous and risk taking like the famous saying goes "the higher the risk the higher the gain" men tend to have it better when it comes to all the issues i've mentioned above.
But as time goes on achievements were less measured with body muscle mass, or how one can endure emotionally, or taking risks per say, but rather success this days is measured through high I.Q (intelligence), meticulous nature to be able to deliver high accuracy, in tune with the environment, grooming and taking extra care in looking trim etc and those traits i mentioned are found more and more in women at the expense of men, hence making women a bit more of valuable staff than most men and in addition most women get higher GP points in the University than most men and statistics is showing that women are getting smarter than men when it comes to exam scores.
I guess women should have a better deal this days cos the world is gradually becoming less masculine.
One final thought, majority of women are not willing or interested in handling the "dirty" jobs that involve inhumanity, display of open brutality etc hence they are not willing to be fully independent of men. From what i've learnt from many women, they dont see men as "superior" rather they see men as high risk takers, a bit un-kept, inconsiderate and a bit boring............but never superior. Most of the women are quite comfortable with the state they find themselves.
My view use to be "Let them eat cake."
But I am not as headstrong as i once was so now my philosophy about woman rights are,
"Try it you may like it, if not go back to the f******g kitchen"
But why take my advice, I'm just a regular guy in a dress with heels on.
As Rodney King once said"Can't we all just get along." People are people, one is no better than the next, it's all just a matter of what you do with what you've got. People have slowed the advancement of civilization by trying to separate us by Gender, Color, or Believe, but if we would just all pull together thin where we could be.
Tina
Amen, sistah.Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieSF
I strongly believe in equal rights for all people, including women, men and men who dress as women.
Thank you for the thoughtful question. As a life long member of the community but infrequent participant, here are my thoughts on your question.Quote:
Originally Posted by springtime
Probably but I hope not. It’s an unfortunate reality that basic human rights are influenced by gender, race etc. It’s something I’ve never understood and for me runs much deeper than being tg. I tend to separate rights from entitlements. I think we may all have our own interpretation of both. In many ways, I only feel “entitled” to that which I have earned. Be it the trust of a friend or the shoes on my feet. In the end, I hope I am sensitive to all human rights and supportive of equal rights for all regardless of being tg.
We are all equal. Dr. King said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "
This applies to all of us. We need to have no reference to color, sex or age if over 18
on any job application. Or for that matter how we want to dress, or what underwear we have on.
The question is " Do you feel you are more sensitive to womens issues and supportive of womens rights because of your female gender identity ?"
Perhaps because I do have a femine side I am more sensitive, but not just to womens rights, but to the rights of all.
Not really... Or not any more than I do gay rights... Minority rights... Tibetan monks rights.. Animal rights... World hunger.... And world peace (little Miss America wave).
The more I learn about how women are treated, the more upset I get. Fair?
Equality? Best be aware. How a society treats its women and children is the key. Some places they'd stone us to death.