Do I Pass?

Hi Girls,

I just got back from the grocery store & I had to tell you about this.

So many of us are concerned with passing. As much as I would like to pass as a GG, I know I won't always (if ever). Today's events told me as much.

I went to the grocery store for a few items for the family. I was picking up milk, eggs and some promotional items from stickers we have collected over the last couple months. For the promotional items I had to use the customer service desk. The lady there was very nice to me, BUT one of the first things she said was "My best friend is a crossdresser." :eek:

I was stunned. Fortunately she kept talking & put me at ease and told me about her friend and going to a club here, etc. THEN she told me the thing she hates most is the people who talk behind our backs about us (crossdressers). She even told off some people in a fast food place that did this to her friend! This is a totally supportive GG.

So I learned that I do not pass, but people still accept as I am and may even like me even though I do not pass for a GG.


P.S.

I had to go back to the store about 1/2 hour later because I grabbed the wrong item. The lady was just about to leave and was turning it over to another girl. The first lady helped the other find what she needed to help me and then left. During that time, the first lady let a "he" slip once but later changed it to "she". The other girl didn't say or do anything & just treated me like any other customer.

I think I'll keep shopping there.

Thanks Kim! That was uplifting to hear.

Honestly, in my experience, most girls accept us. Why? I think it's because they get it! They know guy's clothes are boring. They know hair and makeup are fun. Heck, if I were a girl, I'd probably think that people would want to be like me - I mean, what's not to love?! :)

Kathi

Thanks Kim, and what I think is interesting is that before you can ever pass (if indeed you can) you have to go through the realisation that for a long time you won't pass. I have seen the most beautiful t-girls and they can't pass. It is however such fun just being yourself so it doesn't worry me.

Hi Kim,

That's a nice story. The vast majority of GG's I've ever been around have been accepting too and I just love that! I remember an SA in Nordstroms a couple years ago who was absolutely drop-dead gorgeous. She spied me and I know she clocked me. She just smiled said " you go, girl" as I walked by her. I was beaming.

Michelle

NOBODY passes ALL of the time, to ALL persons! Not even the "best" of us. This is why a lot of TS Gurls who go through transition, and then try to "disappear" into society; spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulder.

It probably bummed you out being read, but the good thing is that you now have reality within your grasp. You can now go about your business, and ignore folks, never having to worry if someone reads you or not.

That should feel very empowering!

Peace and Love, Joanie

Forget about "passing" ... all that really matters is youy being comfortable being you. I am 24/7. I dont "pass" I am sure to many in a day. BUT I am treated well and accepted for being me.

Your insight "So I learned that I do not pass, but people still accept as I am and may even like me even though I do not pass for a GG. " is invaluable - thanks for sharing.

hello glad to hear your story it made me smile to hear we do have people out there that sopport us and for you to go out is alsome girl im still tring to build up the carrage to go out dressed but its getting to the point I don't care what people think im just going to do it

Thanks for the replies girls. I hope we all learn from my experience.

nice story. The girl behind the counter was a dream come true. You probably did pass to most, but the one that caught you was understanding, good for you

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Originally Posted by Kim_Bitzflick

Hi Girls,

I just got back from the grocery store & I had to tell you about this.

So many of us are concerned with passing. As much as I would like to pass as a GG, I know I won't always (if ever). Today's events told me as much.

I went to the grocery store for a few items for the family. I was picking up milk, eggs and some promotional items from stickers we have collected over the last couple months. For the promotional items I had to use the customer service desk. The lady there was very nice to me, BUT one of the first things she said was "My best friend is a crossdresser." :eek:

I was stunned. Fortunately she kept talking & put me at ease and told me about her friend and going to a club here, etc. THEN she told me the thing she hates most is the people who talk behind our backs about us (crossdressers). She even told off some people in a fast food place that did this to her friend! This is a totally supportive GG.

So I learned that I do not pass, but people still accept as I am and may even like me even though I do not pass for a GG.

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Yes, that's the reality for 99.999% of girls who don't transition. People make no drama about you because crossdressers don't phase them, NOT because you 'pass.'

That's a totally positive experience, so I say you "pass"! Having a CD as a good friend, she probably is a little more aware when she saw you. I say if your out and about, and having fun---good'nuff!

In MANY respects!:)

That was a great story Kim. I hope I remember it every time I go out.

It's a bummer that she read you so quickly but remember she sounds like she's maybe "in the community" or at least is probably more "trans-aware" ..... chances are there would have been plenty of other people who wouldn't have read you in a similar situation. You win some, you lose some .... it's just the way it goes. It was nice to hear that she likes us though, and even "sticks up" for us! She sounds lovely. :)

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

It's a bummer that she read you so quickly but remember she sounds like she's maybe "in the community" or at least is probably more "trans-aware" ..... chances are there would have been plenty of other people who wouldn't have read you in a similar situation. You win some, you lose some .... it's just the way it goes. It was nice to hear that she likes us though, and even "sticks up" for us! She sounds lovely. :)

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Agreed

For me I've started to change my definition of "passing." (although I'm kind of coming to hate the word in general.)

I view "passing" as not "do you make a convincing GG, but rather, do you carry yourself with positivity, confidence, and dignity.

Some say it's a bummer that she read you. Is it? She seemed positive and happy about it and excited to see someone who she could relate to because of her friend. You seemed to be a positive example of a crossdresser to her, and hopefully others that saw you, "read" you, and just didn't care either.

The more of us who do such things, the more positive images of crossdressers there are. Rather than try to slip by stealthly as GGs, why not instead just be proud of ourselves as the beautiful crossdressers that we are?

That was a cool story Kim. It's nice to hear of such supportive individuals. :)

I've always considered passing could be determined as a points based system. ie there are men with a high fem points, and woman with a high masculing points to start with. (thats the way of the world for all of us!) and probably why some poeple pass easier than others.

Ie if you consider a balance of 50% male, and 50% female, the more you can tip the scale towards the female area, the better you will pass as a woman. ie the more female points you can add, the more accepted as female you will become to onlookers. The more male points you have the more masculing you will look.

ie to be more of man, you can add a beard, or five o clock shadow, muscular frame, etc.

to look more like a Woman you can add a Realistic cleavage, a convincing wig (that doesn't scream "WIG",) good make up, well fitted and suitable clothes.

Personally I don't think passing is just about looking (or appearing as a Woman) ie you could look perfect and just take one step and blow the whole illusion if your gate, or manerism are wrong, or like one of my very early experences out where I passed totally until a guy walked passed and said "good Evening to me" And totally forgetting myself I replyed in my male voice (Still not sure who was more shocked!) Eck

I still think to this day, passing is about a look, your manerism, and erasing the male elements from your appearance, and most of all confidence. if you can look mostly like a woman, walk like a woman, and act like a woman, then anyone that does read you, will always have that doubt, and no body wanys to be a made to look a fool, so if they doubt they will say nothing and move on!!!

I may have said this before, but --

Too many CDs think passing is "I'm a man dressed as a woman, in a public place, and nobody can tell." I think this is unrealistic -- how can you be certain nobody can tell? Just because nobody says anything? They may be pointing and laughing behind your back.
I prefer to think passing is "I'm a man dressed as a woman, in a public place, and nobody minds." Much easier to get along that way.

Nice story.

I think it's harder to pass in front of those that are or know crossdressers as they are more aware of the possibility.

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Originally Posted by Barbara918

I may have said this before, but --

Too many CDs think passing is "I'm a man dressed as a woman, in a public place, and nobody can tell." I think this is unrealistic -- how can you be certain nobody can tell? Just because nobody says anything? They may be pointing and laughing behind your back.
I prefer to think passing is "I'm a man dressed as a woman, in a public place, and nobody minds." Much easier to get along that way.

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I don't agree with that. I think a fundamental part of what people do when out and about, is divide the people they see in men and women, even those they only see a glimpse of. I think it's just how evolution wired us, I notice myself that while driving though town, I'll semi-consciously register if it's a woman or a man at the pedestrian crossing. I think passing is to be put in the category you are presenting as on that level at least. Once people start doing a double take because their unconscious is giving them mixed signals, you're not passing.
Now in most polite civilized places that is not a problem and many will just register "man in a dress", maybe make a remark and then forget it, but you will get noticed as different, just like if you'd worn a Santa costume, a pink wig or similar. I think passing is about blending in and not getting consciously noticed.

There will always be that 1% that spots nearly all of us, but those are the people who are just more observant of their surroundings, are in security or law enforcement, or have more than average knowledge of CD.

Nice story. Glad you had the composure and kept yourself together. A lot of people would have fled the scene.

A woman will read you a lot faster than a man. It's intuition. You might think you have the posture and movement of a woman but not everything and not all the time. A woman I was with at Provincetown MA commented that there a lot of good ones out there " but I can tell".

A guy is easier to fool. He maybe looking at your boobs or your buns, but probably not the whole picture at once. By the time he puts it together you are probably gone and his memory is just of your nice chest or rear end.

That was a good thing to hear there are some GG that really support us.

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Originally Posted by Chrissie P

Nice story. Glad you had the composure and kept yourself together. A lot of people would have fled the scene.

A woman will read you a lot faster than a man. It's intuition. You might think you have the posture and movement of a woman but not everything and not all the time. A woman I was with at Provincetown MA commented that there a lot of good ones out there " but I can tell".

A guy is easier to fool. He maybe looking at your boobs or your buns, but probably not the whole picture at once. By the time he puts it together you are probably gone and his memory is just of your nice chest or rear end.

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Heheheheh, true. I think in general women are more observant of other people, as a constant "what are they wearing" question hovers in the air. I notice that I'm getting more and more observant myself, not just of clothing but also of behaviour and mannerisms.

Me too. I love watching women. I study their moves and gestures. Watching a woman walk tells a lot about her confidence level, it seems. I take in the whole picture... how she dresses her body, how she wears her hair, her overall look and posture.

The grocery store is a good place to study women. They are usually dressed for normal every day activities. Lots of good ideas there.

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Originally Posted by Kim_Bitzflick

So I learned that I do not pass, but people still accept as I am and may even like me even though I do not pass for a GG.

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I agree with the other comments posted, but as an analyst (stress on the "anal" part) I have to point out that all this tells you is that ONE person accepts you as you are; your experience with that person doesn't speak for how the rest of the population will react. As others have pointed out, in this thread and others, you don't know about the stuff that goes on behind your back.

I liked Katie's 7 stages - 4 would be an ideal goal for all of us to shoot for (if we are out at all, of course).

Awesome story Kim. I do not pass either, however peaple are so supportive and respect me because I am comfortable in my own skin, and I show confidence when I am dressed enfemme. I love it when I am approached by GG's and complimented about my courage or the way I dress.

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Originally Posted by Ralph

As others have pointed out, in this thread and others, you don't know about the stuff that goes on behind your back.

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Nor should we care.

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Honestly, in my experience, most girls accept us.

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Correction. Most girls accept us as long as they aren't going with us. Then it's a different story. Just like most girls accept gays, and think they are cute, but don't want to date them.

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Originally Posted by Katie B

For instance we might imagine a scoring list:

1. You look like a clown or a drag queen - nobody's fooled for a moment
2. You look like a man in a dress - people wonder what your game is
3. You look like a crossdresser - nobody's fooled and some are offended
4. You look like a good crossdresser - you carry yourself with positivity, confidence, and dignity, so even though you're read within minutes you still get respect
5. You look like a woman in most circumstances
6. You look like a woman in all circumstances for hours at a time
7. You look like a woman in all circumstances.

Now, I guess many of us are at the brink between stage 3 and stage 4, which is possibly the riskiest place to be. But having had Kim's experience of phase 4 more than once, I know it's worth the effort.

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I actually don't agree with this list. To me it still emphasizes that the ultimate goal should be looking like a woman in all circumstances (since it's the highest "score.")

Why is it better to look like a woman in all circumstances than to look like a man in a dress (only 2 points, one notch above "Clown")? I've worn the "Guy in a skirt" look many more times than I've dressed en femme, and I don't consider either one to be a "higher score."

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Originally Posted by Alyssa

Nor should we care.

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I do care. My dad is a very public figure and at least until he retires, it would matter. It also means there are lot's of people who know me as "son of ..." that I don't even know. I constantly get greeted by random people because they know my dad and I then have no clue who they are, but somehow they know my name. (I look a lot like him)

Because of this I have very much grown up being conscious about what people might see and think. Even my aunt (my mother's sister) getting a divorce while living abroad (in Africa!) became part of the gossip, so I have been trained to be cautious.

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Originally Posted by Gerard

I do care. My dad is a very public figure and at least until he retires, it would matter. It also means there are lot's of people who know me as "son of ..." that I don't even know. I constantly get greeted by random people because they know my dad and I then have no clue who they are, but somehow they know my name. (I look a lot like him)

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Trust me, I know what you mean. I am a professional stand up comic and I've only recently begun to talk about wearing skirts onstage and even that has been limited to small intimate open mics where I feel safe doing it.

My point was more of an ideal, like "We shouldn't care." and the sad thing is, we still do. It sucks that we have to be concerned about something as unimportant as garment preferences.

Hi Girls
I have also got a nice little story to go with Kim's experience.
On Monday I went to my local gym where they have a beauty parlour.I was there to have my legs waxed.I had gone dressed for a work out so no worry about being embarrased.
The lady who did the waxing could have not been better and really put me at ease to the point where I will go back and have my eyebrows done next time as well.She did ask if my toes need doing but as the nails were painted I was reluctant to remove my socks this time.Perhaps I shall be braver next time.
Ah but can I trust her discretion I hear you say?
Who knows.
Philipa Jane

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Originally Posted by Melinda G

Correction. Most girls accept us as long as they aren't going with us. Then it's a different story. Just like most girls accept gays, and think they are cute, but don't want to date them.

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Fine by me - I dont want to date "most girls"

This is a brilliant thread and will hopefully start some more on a similar subject. I am now very experienced in going out in public dressed but have a couple of comments which really helped me:

About 18 months I realised that I was never going to pass completely however hard I tried. I took that on board and decided to dress in public anyway. That opened the opportunities I have enjoyed since. It removed the "I may not pass, I may be found out" barrier.

About six months ago I realised what it was about. Its not about passing at all. Its about being yourself, its about being open and honest, its about showing your heart on your sleeve, its about the person inside you showing and being proud of herself to whosoever she meets.

Its simply about being yourself, nothing else.

I promise that if you understand that, your lives will open up and you will have the time of your life.

good for you hun keep it up and it gets easier each time,some do see weare crossdressers but most say nothing and acept us

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Originally Posted by tricia_uktv

About 18 months I realised that I was never going to pass completely however hard I tried. I took that on board and decided to dress in public anyway. That opened the opportunities I have enjoyed since. It removed the "I may not pass, I may be found out" barrier.

About six months ago I realised what it was about. Its not about passing at all. Its about being yourself, its about being open and honest, its about showing your heart on your sleeve, its about the person inside you showing and being proud of herself to whosoever she meets.

Its simply about being yourself, nothing else.

I promise that if you understand that, your lives will open up and you will have the time of your life.

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:thumbsup::clap::clap:

I don't go out as much as I would like too. Because I live in such a small town. It is a 60 mile ride to the city. I do however go out. It is so nice to read a thread like this one. It reminds me of how to behave when I am out. This thread theme is spot on in my opinion. And I hope other girls read this thread and are inspired to go out. So I say GO GIRLS GO!!!!!! And have a great outing. Enjoy being yourself. Whoo Hoo!!!

Passing is really about acceptance by other people and it sounds like you passed with flying colors

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Originally Posted by Ralph

I agree with the other comments posted, but as an analyst (stress on the "anal" part) I have to point out that all this tells you is that ONE person accepts you as you are; your experience with that person doesn't speak for how the rest of the population will react. As others have pointed out, in this thread and others, you don't know about the stuff that goes on behind your back.

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One person who she was made aware of. Assuming that others around view it negatively, you might as well assume in male-mode that people view you negatively. We must realize people may or may not view it negatively, but it's my life, and strangers don't dictate what that will be.

I'm a GG and I've been jealous of several MtF CDs. Kudos to all of you :)

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Originally Posted by Alyssa

For me I've started to change my definition of "passing." (although I'm kind of coming to hate the word in general.)

I view "passing" as not "do you make a convincing GG, but rather, do you carry yourself with positivity, confidence, and dignity.

Some say it's a bummer that she read you. Is it? She seemed positive and happy about it and excited to see someone who she could relate to because of her friend. You seemed to be a positive example of a crossdresser to her, and hopefully others that saw you, "read" you, and just didn't care either.

The more of us who do such things, the more positive images of crossdressers there are. Rather than try to slip by stealthly as GGs, why not instead just be proud of ourselves as the beautiful crossdressers that we are?

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Kim, good for you. Experiences like yours have become a daily thing for me. I could not agree more with Alyssa. I actually do not care about the word passing anymore. I dislike all the emphasis placed on it. And I really have come to find it meaningless.

I have disappeared from the radar screen lately - I have been too busy rebuilding my life and starting a business - and guess what? Doing a lot of it enfemme. Who would have thought? Sometimes I dress all the way. Sometimes I do not. I am all over the gender spectrum. It depends on how much time I have and where I am going.

I have learned rules apply only if you choose to have them apply. I have made a couple of trips into the most conservative areas of Lousiana and Missisippi and went everywhere enfemme. Amazing how much more acceptance there is than rejection - by men and women.

You are not supposed to wear short skirts. Hell, you are not supposed to wear skirts period. Otherwise you won't blend in. You will stick out. I now wear what I want when I want and I will always stick out because I DO NOT PASS. It does not matter what I wear and how many hours I have worked on my presentation. They start looking and pointing the minute I walk in and I just smile and wave. Do I care what they say behind my back? NOOOO. Most of them have never ever seen a crossdresser until they see me. What do you expect? I have heard it all now. Good and bad. Not all they say behind your back is bad either. Some will say how good you look and some will say you have guts.

Do you know more often than not they wave back?

Gee, I do not want to steal this thread so I will go now. I have been gone so long and I just logged in and found your thread at the top and it got me going. Almost deleted my post but I will keep it since I don't know when I will make it back.

I am having the time of my life. see you later Kim. It is people and posts like yours that got me here. You are doing a good thing. TKS. Keep it up!

I hope to come back and tell you all my adventures one day.

Very nice to have a positive reaction and more importantly, it sounds like YOU had a great time being out and about- Good for you! Thanks for sharing the positive story:)

Thank you all for the extra insight. I hope this thread helps all of those girls who wish to go out, but are afraid of what people will say or do.

If you are afraid of wht people will say then, learn to ignore them.

If you are afraid of what people may do, take Tai Kwan Do (spelling?).

You don't need good luck, just a good attitude.

Awesome! Many of us have tried to tell this to everyone on this forum. I'm so glad that you have also found this to be true.