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How many OUT people have been made fun of? Well I was out and about wearing my capri pants and a babydoll black t-shirt with a pink batman symbol and someone asked me why I shave my legs and paint my toe nails. So I said I love the feel and I love the color pink. So the guy says thats kinda gay. Then I tell him before I came out (didnt say whether I was gay or Xdresser) That I would redicule people as well to cover my masculinity then walked away. I thought it was my first good come back.
Heh. That was a good comeback. :heehee:
Very good comeback indeed.
Closest I ever came was one a.m. at a diner. A guy & a girl were sitting at a table across the room, & he was kinda giggling and making remarks (nothing terribly hurtful, thankfully). As they left I heard her tell him "Y'know, I bet if *you* wanted to go out dressed like that, you wouldnt have the guts!" She winked & smiled at me as they walked out.
I've wondered if some of the acceptance I've encountered dressed isn't due somewhat to having the balls to walk out fully dressed?Quote:
"Y'know, I bet if *you* wanted to go out dressed like that, you wouldnt have the guts!"
I have seen people whisper and elbow each other on the bus, but nothing really overt. I get far more positive comments (like "you're beautiful", "you look great", etc) than obvious negative reactions. I've noticed too that as I get better at makeup and more comfortable out dressed, the women seem to stare at me less on the street, so I'm guessing I'm passing better.
All the Best,
Ann / SS
As a writer, I often give free rein to my imagination. One of the imaginings I've had is this one:
I'm at the mall, preferably with my wife, and I'm all dolled up, 6' 3" in my heels, skirt above the knee, tights, hair, makeup...the works. Knowing I can never pass as a genuine female, I imagine passing a group of teenagers, or perhaps young twenty-somethings, who "make" me and start laughing and joking and catcalling.
The me at the mall has the confidence to stop, wink at my wife, turn around and walk up to them. They shut up, being brave behind my back but not so certain as my mascara-framed eyes stare them down.
"You know," I say, "It's too bad you feel so uncomfortable about yourselves that you have to ridicule me like that. That's a pretty weak and cowardly way to be, don't you think? I have to say that, even dressed like this," (and I pass my painted nails across my 38C's and my long legs, "I'm twice tha man of all of you put together."
Then, of course, I turn and re-join my wife, who stifles a laugh, and we go about our business, leaving the group behind. Before we pass out of earshot, I hear one of them start poking fun at the chief ridiculer for getting taken down like that.
Okay, not likely in any scenario, but as I said, I claim the excuse that I'm a writer. :) It's a cathartic fantasy.
I don't know what this means?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy23
My guess is that the snappy comebacks that sound so good to us rarely have the intended effect, especially the ones that impeach the listener. And honestly, I personally don't believe that's usually the underlying stimulus behind this sort of scenario. I think it's more to do with people fearing what they don't understand, and using derision as a coping mechanism when they encounter what they perceive as aberrant behavior. It's easier than trying to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiannaRose
If it's okay with you, I would substitute the word "courage" for "balls", but yeah, you're absolutely right. People have made such comments to me numerous times, and surprisingly, more often than not it comes from a gracious, sweet spirited young person. Which always lifts my spirits and gives me hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtsuit
Not that I know of. Or remember. Or really cared about.
There is a woman at work who I suspect suspects about me. I don't how she knows, maybe she saw a hint of bra strap, she surely noticed that my wife trimmed and shaped my eyebrows, she also surely noticed that I had my hair straightened and had blonde highlights put in. No one else gives a hoot, but this woman looks upon me with disgust. She sits near a printer that I use, and if I fail to immediately pick up some documents when she is printing some, I've seen her pick up my stuff, snort in disgust, and throw mine in the tray. She recently placed an anonymous note in my mailslot to tell me that clipping and filing your nails at work is rude .. I know it was her because she was the only one there at 6.15 AM when I came in, had broken a nail and was repairing it.
If I had better proof, I would go to our corporate ombudsman with a discrimination complaint (we are a BIG company and such prejudice don't fly), but I have told my boss. He said to let him know if it happened again.
Huggles
Toni-Lynn
I cant think of ever being made fun of. It almost worries me, because not sure how I will react when it happens. In my mind I try to believe it will so that no false hopes. Also figure it is a test of character and growth. I do get out and about- to mall, stores even to a bowling alley. The way I see it most people are to wrapped up in themselves or dont want to make trouble/cause a scene so they ignore you. The people u come in close contact like SAs are wanting to make a sale so they treat you with respect.
I believe the inference was that you act all macho because you fear your feminine side. That's my take.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherri
Point taken but now can I ask a question of you. How would you handle that situation.? Would you ignore it and walk away? Would you stop and glare? Would you take a moment and try and educate the young people?Quote:
My guess is that the snappy comebacks that sound so good to us rarely have the intended effect, especially the ones that impeach the listener. And honestly, I personally don't believe that's usually the underlying stimulus behind this sort of scenario. I think it's more to do with people fearing what they don't understand, and using derision as a coping mechanism when they encounter what they perceive as aberrant behavior. It's easier than trying to understand.
I, like most here, think of the best lines 20 minutes later. I usually, if I react at all, give the person a head tilt and a smile. Really not changing their minds or attitudes at all but at least I feel better in my mind thinking I have set them back for a second. I am sure that after I walk away there is the "did you see that freak?" When I am not dressed up is when I do my best confrontation. Guess because I present a masculine figure and I feel better equipped to defend myself, hypocritical I know but I admit to that. Of course in those cases I am championing another person I feel is being put down. I am Lancelot when I should be Joan d'Arc.
But I would like to know how, if not through a witty come back, others would respond. (mods feel free to make this a new thread if you think I have gone off subject)
Last time was my wife actually.
I had been shaving my upper chest to stop that ugly hair from showing over the top of my nice dresses. Apparently my wife had noit noticed this. We were sitting at the dinner table with the kids around. I did not have a shirt on that day. I was a very warm summer day. My wife looks at me and said "What is this, are you dressing up sexy and dont want the hair to show".
Now I turned about as red as you can get from embarrisment. My kids are sitting there, What can I say. I just siad "Are you done yet" and grinned a bit.
Too bad we weren't alone, I could have thought of a ton of things to say.
Good question. I think there are three possible outcomes based on my reaction in this sort of situation -- 1) I can escalate the hostility by reacting in kind; 2) I can try to make them see the hurtfulness of their behavior in a non-aggressive way; or 3) I can (hopefully) defuse the situation entirely by simply ignoring the insult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
I nearly always elect to ignore the insult and go about my business because I perceive that nothing is to be gained by doing anything else. I strongly believe that the best way to advance the cause of acceptance is through one-on-one interaction, but the notion that I'm gonna change some stranger's mind with a few seconds of witty repartee is wildly optimistic, imo.
If someone is just glaring I am likely, like you, to make eye contact and respond with a smile, even when I don't feel like it, just cuz that's the mature thing to do. There was one incident where two people were making fun of me in voices intentionally loud enough for me to overhear and I basically told them that as difficult as it might be for them to believe, I am a person just like them and what they were saying really hurt my feelings. They just smirked, but they did lower their voices -- probably out of fear that I might start crying. :)
The only situations where I try to overcome the hostility in a gentle way -- and I've done this a number of times, usually at one of the clubs -- is choosing to overlook negative signals from someone I know disapproves of me and go out of my way to be nice and engage them. I don't challenge them or even mention their disapproval, I just try to help them see through normal interaction that I'm a real person, and I'm a nice person, and I'm much more "normal" than they might think. Over time, this works better than you might think. I've had several of them come around.
One tactic I know won't work -- and by "work" I mean change a person's attitude -- is to get angry and snarky. Impugning someone's masculinity, accusing them of latent homosexuality or implying they might be harboring latent feminine tendencies themselves isn't going to accomplish anything except piss people off and make them despise me more.
Only one time have I ever responded in anger. I was at a park one Sunday afternoon and this hillbilly-looking mf about 50 yards away started yelling insults at me. Really pissed me off. But I am in no way tough (as in fighting tough), so I couldn't do what I wanted to, which was knock the few teeth he had out of his hateful mouth. Instead, I got in my car, rolled down the window, shot him the finger and drove off. I could see him in my mirror about to have a stroke and I laughed. It didn't take me long to start feeling like a jerk for lowering myself to his level, and because I knew I had only succeeded in throwing gasoline on the fire. But there for a minute, I tell ya, it felt great. :D
That is the type of people I have had most insults from.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherri
I don't really get laughed at, the times anyone says anything it is usually a hateful tone. But for someone just laughing or making jokes, I have not really had a lot of that.
With these hillybilly types, treat them as you would a wild animal. They don't really reason like humans, and if one of them does try to get violent, fight them off like your life depends on it. If you can avoid confrontation , great, it doesn't always go that way though.
Very ClassyQuote:
We were sitting at the dinner table with the kids around. I did not have a shirt on that day.
Today a guy said quite loudly as he passed me on the street -
"A white guy trying to look tike a white girl"
I Ignored him
With no public transportation in Philly, I had to walk to Center City and back today. Its harder to blend in the poorer neighborhoods in S philly in a nice suit.
All the Best,
Ann / SS
Typically when I went out in NYC I would occasionally get a longer-than-normal stare, but no comments-- CDs are common enough in NYC, at least in the neighborhoods I went out in, and few people in the city want to go out of their way to antagonize anyone, I guess because you never know just how crazy the person you're laughing at might be.
There was one time-- I was walking from the subway to the bar, and I heard a loud "HAHAHA" from a car-- it was a carload of college guys and one had stuck his torso out to laugh at me from 50 feet away. I figured he was either attracted to me (I WAS hot that night) or wanted to CD himself and didn't have the guts, and either was reacting to his conflicted emotions or had to somehow justify staring at me as I walked by to his homies. I gave him a wave and a wink and kept walking, and that was that.
Nicole,Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Erin
I am very bothered by your and Sherri's generalizations. Exactly what is the difference between labeling people as "hillbilly types" and "rednecks" and labeling people as "queer" or "dago" or "the N word"?
sounds like you put him in his place, the problem is it took him a couple of days before he realized you had.
[QUOTE=sherri;1932517]Good question. I think there are three possible outcomes based on my reaction in this sort of situation -- 1) I can escalate the hostility by reacting in kind; 2) I can try to make them see the hurtfulness of their behavior in a non-aggressive way; or 3) I can (hopefully) defuse the situation entirely by simply ignoring the insult.
Sherri,
I agree with 3). Ignoring the insult is most times the better way to deal with these situations.
I learned that approach well from my Mom, long before my teen years. She was a master of the art of conspicuously ignoring, and always said it's the way to rob the boors of their sense of satisfaction.
BTW, Mom's approach related to life in general, nothing tied to CDing. (In fact, I never found any evidence she was ever onto my CD).
Daisy
This guy had on dirty overalls with one strap undone, no shirt on underneath, a rebel cap, one of those long, dirty, disgusting goatees like you see on a billy goat, and missing teeth. He was leaning against the hood of his filthy, beat-up, rusted out old pickup filled with junk and trash bags, drinking a beer. And he was yelling "f**kin' faggot" at me at the top of his lungs and ordering me to "get out of here" for no other reason than I happened to be sitting in the shade of a tree in the park minding my own business. People all around us, including little kids, were staring. If you think I give a damn about being politically correct toward that a**hole, you're dead wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone
Of course, now that you mention it, maybe using the word hillbilly to describe that bucket of puss is doing a disservice to hillbillies, so maybe I should have said "redneck scumbag s.o.b.". And let me assure you I have no reservations about using the word redneck where it applies. I don't know where you live, but around here, redneck is real, and they are to be taken seriously. Some of them will drag you around behind a pickup truck for being different, especially if you're gay or black.
In my book, there's nothing wrong with the word "queer", even though I know rednecks use it as an insult. But calling someone a dago or whatever is dissing someone simply because of his race or creed or whatever. That is not even the same thing as despising the behavior I've just described -- and doing it with extreme prejudice, I might add.
Jesus Christ Persephone, have you not noticed that that hicks tend to be the biggest threat to a TG person? I know not all of them are trouble but me personally, I have had more problems with them than anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone
Of course some TG want to deny that but I imagine the general consensus is that hicks tend to be a pain in the butt.
I had this happen once while standing in line for a popular restaurant after clubbing. A drunk cowboy was flipping my friends and I a whole ton of poo.
Let me preface this with, I have been an Infantry soldier in the Army for my entire adult life. I am a combatives instructor, trained in the martial arts and subsequently know how to defend myself. Because of that training I do everything within my power to avoid confrontation. However…
Mr. Cowboy wouldn't back off despite our best efforts to ignore and move away from him. He actually got in my face and said are you deaf besides being a faggot. (Ohhhh girls I must point out that sheer ignorance and stupidity causes the Y chromosome in me to go off the Richter scale) I wheeled around used my male voice and exclaimed he didn't want to explain to everyone how a guy in a dress mopped up the street with him. I was sure the situation would go bad and was prepared for it. All I could think about was how I was about to ruin a dress I had only been able to wear once. To my surprise Bubba not only backed down but he and his buddy left.
I never recommend resorting to violence if it can be avoided. You never know what will happen, but in this case it worked out.
I am more of a man than you'll ever be,
and more of a woman than you'll ever get.
-Angel Dumont Schunard (Rent, 199x)
I always loved that one =)
And somehow, Sherri, what you're doing is different? You are generalizing from some individual and then using the broad brush of a label to somehow stigmatize something you perceive as a group, apparently by the way they are dressed or the type of vehicle they drive or where they live. Sorry, but what you are doing is no different than any other form of vituperative name calling.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherri
Whenever someone tells me they think that being gay is a choice, I immediately explain to them my honest belief that any one who seriously believes that homosexuality is a choice must be at least bi-sexual, if not a closeted homosexual themselves. After all, it has been their experience that sexual preference is a choice, and they have chosen the strait "lifestyle." If they were strait, they would not believe that sexual preference is something that could be selected from a list of options.
Explaining to homophobes that they have just outed themselves is SO rewarding.
It happens to me from time to time. I've had people call me a fairy, a faggot, and freak at some point or another. The best thing to do, I think, even if you don't variably reply, is to show them you can't be intimated. If anyone makes fun of me out on the streets, I usually just smile, hold my head and proudly walk on.
The only reason anyone would make fun of you like that is to try to make you feel small. Don't let them.
Well, just so you know, there are redneck and hillbilly crossdressers out there. I used to look just like the asshole (which is what they should be called) described, Confederate flag and all (though don't have a goatee anymore, thankfully, and never drink beer, and my truck is new and clean, I sometime still dress that way). Though when they act like that and yell stuff at other's, calling them a redneck or hillbilly is putting them up higher on the hog and insulting to others who do have that label. There asshole scum, plain and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherri
And for the original post, I haven't recieved any negative comments to my face, but was once asked if I was a girl or a guy, which I guess could be a compliment.
Comebacks don't work. Just like flame wars in forums. It feels good at the time, but solves nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy23
If anything, this suggests you haven't fully come to terms with who you're both inside and out.
Join the club. I know how you feel. Been made fun of my whole life.
[SIZE="2"]I've heard comments when being out en femme. I remember my first time out I was waiting to cross the street in a area of town that has 3-4 gay bars in a small area, as I was standing on the sidewalk a car full of people rode by and someone shouted to me "why don't you get some boy clothes"!!! I thought I was doing a good job passing that night but.......:doh: anyway I still had a good time.
Susan :doll:
[/SIZE]
The original question was about being made fun of while out en femme. Diana Rose, in response, felt that the person(s) ridiculing a cross dresser feel 'uncomfortable about themselves'. I disagree. He is 6'3" dressed as a woman in public. I think in reality that is a strange sight in an of itself. The people who make fun of us in public are, in many cases, making fun of a person who may very well look ridiculous.
Well, if you refer back to my original post, what I said was this jerk looked like a hillbilly, and I guess what you're saying pretty much validates my impression of him. But I concede the spirit of your point in that not all hillbillies are scum like him. It was wrong to make such an implication. Sorry. As for "redneck" (which I did not use in my original post, btw), see below. And about that confederate flag thing -- I know what it means to "Suthrens" and I know the connotations are not all bad, but you know good and well that it is offensive to some people who don't deserve the insult, so if I can't use the word hillbilly disparagingly, maybe you need to think about ditching that particular symbol, okay? I mean, talk about reinforcing stereotypes ... :) That's the thing about political correctness -- sooner or later it comes around to bite nearly all of us. Except maybe Persephone, who appears to be pure as the driven snow. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by SalennaJade
What I did was make a correlation between the way he looks and the way he behaved. I mean, this guy was straight out of Deliverance (which I suppose is also a travesty for depicting hillbillies the way it does), and I was definitely tapping into that association of ignorant, backwards, bigoted, violent evil. Never mind that I have lived among hillbillies in years gone by and found them to be very much this way toward blacks, gays and anyone "different", you are right that there is nothing constructive about reinforcing stereotypes. If you want to take the high road -- way up high where it's hard to breath -- then you are right and I was wrong. I apologize (even though I think you are pretty much full of it for equating my characterization with bigotry toward non-agressives). :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone
As for the term "redneck", I'm not backing down on that one. Grechen Wilson might make it sound yee-haw cool, and Jeff Foxworthy might make it funny, but where I live, redneck ain't funny or cool if you're "different". As someone who has experienced firsthand vitriolic, even violent prejudice because of my long hair (when I was young) or being a sissy, there is nothing cute or acceptable about being redneck. Rednecks are willfully ignorant, highly prejudiced, self-righteous and prone to unwarranted violence. I have rednecks in my family who say unspeakable things about Obama simply because they can't stand a black man being president. Any time racial minorities or gays come up in conversation, the consensus is they should be beaten senseless and deported. That's what redneck means to me, and I don't think any honest redneck would deny that mindset is prevalent among their kind. I tell my kin straight to their faces that they're redneck. By using that word, I'm telling them it is not okay with me and I'm not willing to chuckle, wag my head and say, "Oh those crazy, colorful rednecks, ain't they a caution!".
I also apologize if this thread has been hijacked. That wasn't my intention, and I'll shut up now.
Nicole,Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Erin
Once upon a time I dialed a wrong number. When the phone was answered I asked if the person I was calling was there. The woman on the other end of the phone went into an incredible tirade which included "I can tell from your voice that you is a White man, and you got no buziness calling no Black lady . . ." and on and on and on. Should I have have generalized from this that all Black women are stupid racists? Somehow I don't think so.
Whenever you project the characteristics of an individual onto a group, regardless of the characteristics of the individual or the nature of the group, you are committing the same error.
How is your anger, your elevated blood pressure, your rage, and, yes, your hate any different?
Interesting! I've been mistaken for Jesus before! O.K., that time I had a beard and long hair. I was helping a police office handle a drunk. I stepped out into the headlights in front of the drunk. To him it was as if I suddenly appeared, radiant in the light. The drunk jumped back, his eyes bugged out and he slurred "Are you Jesus Christ?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Erin
But I have to give it to you for a first -- first time I've been mistaken for Jesus en femme!