Separate, or Integrated??

I'm a little confused and I'm hoping you can shed some light on this issue for me. I've read a lot of conflicting things about it...you have separate names, one for guy mode, one for girl mode...most seem to want addressed with the corresponding pronouns and names according to how dressed. Some say they are integrated and they contain both feminine and male within themselves and they are the same person no matter how they're dressed. Then there are others that almost seem like multiple personalities, even going so far as to totally pretend to be a woman, including flirting with and/or having sex with a guy. Some do this in spite of being married or in a relationship. And they think it's okay. ??? I understand, when dressed, enjoying the validation of male feedback as in attracting a second glance from a guy...but to me that is altogether different than flirting with or having sex with one.
I guess my question here is, do you see yourself as both male and female integrated, or do you see yourself as two identities, a male one and a female one? Please expound if possible. Thank you!

That's a tough question, KayC. For me, I guess the answer is yes. To everything. In my normal, day to day routine, I'd say there is integration, and depending on what I'm involved in, one side is a little stronger than the other,but it fluctuates. Now, when I'm dressed, the pendulum pretty much swings all the way to the fem side,and maybe you can say a completely different personality, but still me at its core.But, it's not always consistent, so, bottom line---I don't know. Sometimes it's more complicated than what I want it to be!

I would say I'm definitely a man... no doubt... Just a man with some great taste... I love a good pair of heels, and a nice mini dress.. and stockings.. I enjoy lace... But, I am a man.. Dont like to flirt with dudes, and dont want no dudes flirtin with me... although, I have made some comments to some members here about how sexy they look, it was aimed at the female persona, because they are truly transgendered, and put on the full female role... And they look good, so it was complimentary, not an invitation. I dont like using a female name, just cant get my head wrapped around it.. I'm just Jim.. And jamie was a name I was called allot in high school, and is fairly androgynous.. so I used it for here... but I truly think that if one is married, or in a serious relationship, and they are actually having sex with guys, that is a problem. flirting with them isnt much better... No matter what your reasoning, it's still wrong to do that to your SO.. We are a narcissistic group, by nature, but we should not be so selfish as to cheat on our SO's and blame it on our "female" self.. Cmon, thats a copout and your just going to have to admit that your homosexual and admit it to your spouse..

I would have to answer it with I am me as her and him. I am one. Although I can seperate the two in the same way that I am able to act, talk, interact as male when at work. Yes, I even have a "different" name at work. I go by my full legal name since people see it on legal documents and assume that is what I go by. ( Lets say "Stephen" for the sake of argument) But when on my own time or at home with family it's all relax mode. Jeans or shorts, less stiff and I even go by "Stevie". Not really hard to think of as two different people. Now just add "Stephanie" to the mix and you have three of us. And I can guarantee she doesn't act or dress like any of the above.
As for the justification of being with men while in Steph mode? I don't get how one can justify that either. This "one" made a vow till death do us part.... not till clothes do us change.:hmph:

Hmmm interesting. I have found that the longer I have been dressing the more integrated I have become. But then there are different types of me in male mode. I'm different with my work colleagues, my friends and my family for example.

I can see why you find it so confusing as there are so many types of cross dressers ranging from the all male who just likes to wear the odd item to the 24/7 complete dresser who sees themselves as a female, and it will depend on who answers your question as to how much different information you will get .
I often wonder if it is connected to how much you dress and to what extent you dress will have a connection to how much you think yourself as male/ female or integrated, but that is just me thinking out laud, (not quite sure how you think out laud as that would be talking):heehee:.
As for myself , first of all the name part, i think of myself as joanne all the time , now is that because i am integrated or think of myself as a female, to be honest i don't really know , i am me which feels very female , acts female likes to dress female style yet unfortunately have a male body so i guess it would have to be some sort of integration that i have come to .
I hope this has not confused you more but just remember it will be different for all so do not judge you SO on what others say just get guidance from it as your SO will be the only one who knows how they feel , and that can change from day to day or how you are dressed.

Both and neither. There is a certain duality about this that only CDers can understand. To be asked to explain it, however, is difficult. One just seems to "know". Kind of like when we play a feeling or hunch. I know that really doesn't explain it but there are certain things about being a woman that only women understand as well.:)

There will be as many answers for that as there are for "why"... And I really don't have a clue for either question.. And I really don't care to know either... Not something that keeps me up at night or keeps me from doing what I'm driven to do...

What if integrated is separate? It's the end I keep on hitting. M & F sort of describe two different states of energy. Jung-wise, integration is said to exist when one keeps both in consciousness, but it still implies that there is a 'both.' If you project anima into consciousness, or onto self, then awareness is there.

Must the personality facets ever really become indistinct from each other, internally I mean? Isn't it something like saying that 'happy' and 'sad' have to integrate into 'nothingness'? The tension between opposite forces is vitality itself, IMO. Integrated the wrong way, they cancel each other out. Tensioned as a pair, they resonate life itself.

Again, this is why I like the imagery from the East. Buddhism shows an externalized model if integration in its imagery. (That's a crossdresser, or a TG in my perception, spiritual androgyny.)

Hinduism shows that internally, the duality will, and should remain. Look at these two deities. One, Two, Three. They represent the inner identity to me. They are a pair, and neither is the complete identity without its counterpart. They are separate beings, yet always together, one never without the other.

Wen pretty much hit it but I didn't want to go into that much detail. Suffice it to say that CDing and integration of feelings and energies are really just the tip of the iceberg. Most CDers do not realize they contribute to energy balance. When the male and female enegies work in unison, there is near zero point energy attainable and they are additive. When in conflict they are subtractive.Hopefully, in our own limited way we can help others to appreciate and understand some of this,even though most of it is inner realization you either comprehend or don't.:)

Like a few others the more I dress the more it becomes an integration. I am a man, no urge to be with a man, but I do like to look as good as possible (at best a very unattractive woman), but if can blend and not make myself a spectacle I'm ok.
As a male some of this carries over, I take care of my skin more, use a little mineral bronzer sparingly for a little color and to even out the skin tone. Also trying to lose a little weight (for health & appearances). Also pierced both ears and wear a diamond stud in each, I would like to wear other earrings to work in drab but I have to set some limits.
So I guess Nikki is a part of me at all times.

Good question. For me, when I'm drab, I'm 100% drab. As for when I dress, well, I sure as heck ain't no drab. If guys look at me when I'm dressed, and they actually think that I'm a woman, well, that gives me a good feeling that I'm doing EVERYTHING a gurl is supposed to do. I like being a drab when I'm dressed as a drab, and when I'm dressed as Cheryl, well, I like that too. Split personality? I'd say that's not too far off track. How to keep it together? Easy, drab is drab and Cheryl is who she is, and never the two may meet. But you know what? They both like the same foods, books, movies.
It's all very complicated, but also very fun.

Im with Cheryl to a point that i feel like 2 diffrent peronality's. Im a man all the way as in drab or dress i love women,when i was younger i thought i might be a lesbian in a male's body. being on here has helped me to sort out alot of who i and amber is. I see my self as amber while in drab but it come's out as her male counter part,to match the drab im guessing. i have no attration to guy's at all. and real i have 3 peronalty's I have amber the loveing careing fem part of me,shaun the senstive teary eyed male part of my self,then super manish when im allmost primal though that part only show's in time of extream need!

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Originally Posted by KayC

I guess my question here is, do you see yourself as both male and female integrated, or do you see yourself as two identities, a male one and a female one?

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Originally Posted by vikki2020

To everything. In my normal, day to day routine, I'd say there is integration, and depending on what I'm involved in, one side is a little stronger than the other,but it fluctuates. Now, when I'm dressed, the pendulum pretty much swings all the way to the fem side,and maybe you can say a completely different personality, but still me at its core.But, it's not always consistent, so, bottom line---I don't know. Sometimes it's more complicated than what I want it to be!

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[SIZE="2"]I agree with what vikki said – to me, there is integration, not separate identities. I mean, I only made up a female presence at this site for reasons of presentation. In reality, I’m me, and that’s that. I don’t act all that differently when dressed, it’s just a heightened state of awareness, pulling further away from expected male behavior, or, I my case, leaving it behind altogether…

There are public times when I have to be a male, and there are private times when I can be more like a female, so I wind up doing both on a daily basis. I suppose it’s hard to explain to a non-crossdresser, but what else is new? This is a complicated issue. Thousands of words are expended here each day trying to explain the unexplainable – I gave up trying to long ago, embraced the feminine in me, and became truly happy in the process…:) [/SIZE]

Hello KayC,

I suspect that you behave differently when with you r best friend(s) than with your spouse or at work or in a business setting. Does that mean you have 3 separate personalities? I don't think so. It is still you, no matter what you are doing. But certain behaviors are ok in different settings.

It is somewhat the same with my CD activities. I downplay some actions and turn up others depending on the situation, and sometimes the situation is influenced by how I'm dressed.

So to agree with the others, a little of both.

For me the lines are blurred. I am starting to have more and more friends that know and accept me for who I am, I can show a little of both sides to them all the time whether I am dressed or not. So in that since I am integrated, but with my mother, brother, and in-laws Alexa does not exist.

As for the getting together with men when married..... I say that is still cheating. It does not matter whether they are in male mode or not. If that person never stumbled in to crossdressing they would still cheat on their wives. I will be the first to admit that if I was not married I would have had a boyfriend at sometime or would still have one BUT I love my wife. I married her and am faithful to her as long as she will have me. She knows this and the trust between us is strong. People ask me how I can love my wife and still asy that I would have a male companion? Its just the same as having an ex-girlfriend. They are in the past and I now have found my other half and we have been happly married for 5 years and together for 7years.

I guess it will be a different answer for everyone when it comes down to separate or not. But most people will agree that cheating is cheating and blaming it on dressing is just an excuse.

I am just me. I am a girlie guy (NancyBoy, JaneGirl) and always have a fem hair style, and wear women's shoes and nail polish. I don't have two modes. I am just happy being a fem guy.

Lori says that she is the dominant personality in my schizophrenic world.

I don't think my two persona's are that different. Maybe Lori is a little softer spoken but she can still swear like a sailor. We both like the same things. We both enjoy the finer things in life. We both are incorrigible flirts and teases.

Other than that we take separate vacations. She likes the beach. I like Vegas.

Thank you so much for your answers, I'd be interested to hear from the rest of you...it seems the more responses I read, the more I understand it as a whole. Wen4cd and Vikki2020 kind of put it in perspective a bit...I understand that there is no one answer because everyone is different, but I'm trying to understand it as a whole...it seems there is integration but also a focused projection one way or another at times...there are some that are heterosexual that will not be attracted to another male, but others that are bi that will be...there are some that are transsexual and that is another matter altogether, and there are some that are anywhere along these lines of discovery. Yes I understand that we all have some degree of male and female energy and different facets to our personality, and most of us aren't multiples although I suppose it's understandable there could be multiple personality CDers among us, why not, there are in the rest of our society too! So while I know one answer doesn't cover all, to some extent, I think you have all helped me understand it a little.

Just to clarify, it isn't my SO that is a cheater...but I have heard this scenario from a number of CDers and their SOs...that some want to be with men when dressed...that goes a whole lot further than just wanting validation of how well they did presenting themselves as dressed, which is understandable. I think most of us would agree, also, that presenting as a female to a man, is dishonest...yet if one is transsexual, that brings up a dilemma for sure! Yes, it can all be a little confusing, but also a little exciting and fun as well, certainly very interesting! One thing I have liked about all of this, since learning about CDing, is that it certainly expands our thinking and in a way brings some kind of balance, if that is the right word, to the equation. I like that some have given up trying to put a label on it and have just accepted themselves "as is", whatever the identity, whatever the gender, whatever the orientation, they are who they are, as they are, and that is great!

Gee KayC.
These sort of questions really hurt my brain at 2.45am.
I shall have to give this some thought to give a serious answer.

One thing more Kay is that as people we all wear a lot of "hats" and have to daily invoke different aspects of who we are on a temporary basis to get things done(i.e. women are Moms, wives, maids, baby sitters, grocery shoppers, soccer moms, etc. Guys are Dads, husbands providers, handymen, mentors, etc.).When finished with that particular specialty, we usually revert back to our base personas. In an additional femme or homme self, this will probably be not that much different. We invoke the specialties and the feelings for different situations. Whether we carry every feeling to fruition is another story. Bottom line in any of this is that we attempt to control the feelings and not vice versa, otherwise we do open ourselves up to possible DID(dissociative identity disorder) or yeild ourselves to an overpowering entity that can take on a life of it's own and control us other than vice versa.:)

I am a man who likes to wear womens clothing. They feel good on me and I get a great variety to choose from. While in female mode which is about 65% of the time, it is only dressing. I still want to be with a woman and have no thoughts of being with a man. It's all about the clothes for me.

I'm pretty much me as my male side and Alice side. My basic personality does not change, nor do I wish it to change. When I dress I want to be as much a female as possible, but I do not try to change my voice or pretend that I am 100% female, because I'm not. I totally love being Alice and think about it a lot. Even in my male role I wear woman's panties, have painted toe nails, wear ear rings and shaved legs. I love the feelings, but present as my normal male self.

In my few times out as Alice I have not been hit on by a man presenting as a man. Should that happen it would be a compliment, but that is all. Should I be hit on by another cross dresser that I thought looked beautiful, well I don't know how I would react. I'm sure that many of us have had thoughts about such and encounter, even if we do not wish to admit it. Faced with the reality would present a lot of conflicts and tough decision making and at my age I doubt that it is something for me to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Denise Rhodes

Bottom line in any of this is that we attempt to control the feelings and not vice versa, otherwise we do open ourselves up to possible DID(dissociative identity disorder) or yeild ourselves to an overpowering entity that can take on a life of it's own and control us other than vice versa.:)

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This. :thumbsup:

Yet it might be not so negative. DID is known to be induced by well-intentioned therapy, and the 'memory loss' associated with this sort of thing is emotional rather than cognitive. "Losing a feeling." It often hurts, but it's not 'bad.' It actually presents itself as the kind of hurt humans 'should' be feeling as they grow, but tend to avoid by any means available in the West.

And there is faith in what you surrender to. Do you yield or do you not, when the offer is presented? In my experience, the thing that offers is the very thing that has been all I could place trust in since early childhood. I would sooner yield to her than to gods I don't know or feel, or to any human. There are many times when I wish to be 'driven' and cannot find the right energy, the right ritual, or the words.

This is why I sometimes stay up late at night. :straightface:

There's a definite split for me. When I'm in male mode I'm 100% male, but when I'm in fem mode I do my best to be as feminine as I can. That doesn't change my personality, though, just some of my mannerisms that I've noticed.

Wen4cd, thanks for the links to the imagery. What you said about the balance in Eastern philosophy is what I've been working for this past year. I've posted a couple of pictures in another thread of Shiva and his consort, Shakti (Parvati) whey they are shown blended into one being.

That said, I do a lot of feminization self hypnosis and am always looking for new MP3s in that vein online. So right now, the girl in me is stronger when I'm alone and even at work, she's always in my awareness.

I have never been out in public dressed, but have done some online video chatting. Though I have no desire to have relations with guys, I enjoy it when they think I'm a woman or even when they compliment me on my attractiveness when they know I'm not. But I mainly chat with females and have a couple of online friends who like my look while dressed.

I picked the name "Joanie" long ago, when I was in my late teens. I'd love to have a female body and be a ****ty lesbian. But I also like my "manly bits." I have no desire to have surgery as I know that I wouldn't have the nerve endings and sensations that a real female body has.

I've never been much into sports and am uncomfortable around a bunch of loud, rowdy guys. But when I listen to a group of women talk for a bit, it grates on me and I think I'm glad that I'm not really a woman. My dressing has kept me from finding a wife or even a long term girlfriend and now at 50, I don't think it will ever happen. But the best thing I've done for myself is the decision this past year to embrace my female half and integrate her more into my life. Shooting for a yin/yang balance has really helped me. Some days the pendulum swings more in one direction or the other, but I'm glad I've accepted the goddess into my life.