"Putting the cart before the horse"

Hi everyone,
Lately I have stepped up my research on HRT and have been really trying to figure out if HRT is right for me or not.

I feel weird because of my situation, and am stuck it seems as how to read myself. I currently CD when I can, which isn't often, as I'm currently at home living with parents now. I've never had the chance to have a Real Life Experience of significant length. All I know is I've been CD"ing since elementary school age and the degree of dressing has increased every since. Currenly I'm getting laser hair removal done on my face and I'm growing out my hair to a longer length. I'm also seeing a psychotherapist.

On one hand I wonder if HRT is right for me since I've been CD'ing for so long, and have come this far.
On the other hand I feel I may very well be doing something very foolish and not right for me, yet when I imagine my life in the future without HRT and just being a CD, I feel sad, like I'm missing out on something, there's a feeling of emptiness I guess you can say.

I feel that my life lacks a solid direction. I'm almost done with college and I still have no idea what my career will exactly be like yet. I feel different and isolated from people, and from that I often figure "maybe things are meant for me to do things like HRT?". Since I lack the Real Life Experience as Shayna, my therapist said that I'm "putting the cart before the horse", which makes sense. Yet I'm still doing all this research on HRT.

I've done research on HRT and know that it's basically taking a chance. Many aspects of HRT have not been studied in regards to trans-people. I'm aware of the health risks, but would still be willing to do HRT. I don't smoke at all and seldom drink, and I know that would help my situation greatly in making it easier in regards to HRT.

Just for the record if I ever do HRT it will be with a doctor and his/her supervision.

Sorry for the long post, but I was curious if anyone else here ever found themselves in this situation?

Shayna,

HRT is a big step forward and it does have long lasting if not in fact permanent affects on your body and mind. I would not characterize your thoughts or desires as putting the cart before the horse.

The WPATH (formerly Benjamin Standards of Care) have the steps a bit differently. Basically it is
1. Gender therapy
2. About 3 - 6 months in therapy start HRT
3. About a year or 2 into HRT start the RLE (living full time as a woman)
4. After 1-2 years RLE GRS surgery

I would suggest looking over these standards of care, and then talking to your therapist.

If your therapist is not following these or is unaware of them, you should seek a different therapist.

Veronica

I have to agree with Veronica here which leads me to ask if your therapist has much experience working with gender issues? There plenty of things which ought to come before you even think about starting a Real Life Experience, one of which is to have been on HRT for a while.

And a good therapist should be able to lead you through an internal conversation so that you can answer the question about whether HRT is right for you.

So you think the decision to start hrt (or not to) should come before Real Life Experience/Test? Is the thinking that HRT could help me pass easier and therefore make the RLE easier? Just making sure I understand. I don't have any plans or intentions of SRS right now. Sorry for not mentioning this earlier, but that's not even on the radar for me right now.

The counseling center I'm going to does work with individuals with gender issues.

Thank you all for the responses btw.

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Originally Posted by Shayna2008

So you think the decision to start hrt (or not to) should come before Real Life Experience/Test? Is the thinking that HRT could help me pass easier and therefore make the RLE easier? Just making sure I understand. I don't have any plans or intentions of SRS right now. Sorry for not mentioning this earlier, but that's not even on the radar for me right now.

The counseling center I'm going to does work with individuals with gender issues.

Thank you all for the responses btw.

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Yes, the HRT normally comes before any RLT, the reason being is, the HRT will change your body & mindset, and if you dont like those changes, you can stop at an early stage, the RLT is the secondary big step into the transition, so if you are comfortable with what the HRT did, then you move onto the RLT, and being on HRT will make this next step easier for you in many ways, and then if you feel comfortable living full time and can socialize fully function as a woman in the world for approx a year, then you get your letters for approval needed if you desire SRS..

You say the center you go to works with gender issues, but what kind of experience do they have, like, how many cases have they signed off as going full term & onto SRS, there's place that work with gender issues and then there are specialist that only work with gender issues....get what I'm saying?

:hugs:

Hey Shayna, I am in a very similar situation and a very similar point in life (a few years ahead of you really). Two things I recommend: First get dressed up and head out anywhere and everywhere you can, doing normal things you usually do (pickup groceries, walmart runs, clothes, etc). If you're considering living as a transgendered woman you need to feel what it's like. It's quite different. For me most people view me as a woman, but some catch a drift and take me as a man in womans clothing... which so far has only caused smiling and laughing at my plight. You have to know if you can truly face this the rest of your life. Second you should get a therapist... because even if you figure everything out on your own they can be a gateway to entering HRT.

Yes, sweetie. You need a real gender therapist. One who is familiar with modern theories and care.

Find a new one.

As has been said already:

1.) Gender therapy
2.) Hormone therapy
3.) RLE (real life EXPERIENCE, it's not a test)
4.) Gender reassignment surgery, FFS (if needed), and BA

You have been given some good advice here.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Katlyn had some especially useful advice. Do it.

You sound like a younger version of what I am experiencing right now - almost to a T.

I'm seeing a therapist, to help me resolve this exact question. You should too.

Why are you so hung up on wanting hormones, what do you think they'll do for you and what do you expect?

Karen :g1:

Yes. Don't expect miracles from hormone therapy. You can't take a pill and come out female. There's no such thing.

You need to be women inside first. That's what you do in Gender Therapy. You examine your self. Who are you? What do you want? Where are you going? How do you propose to get there? Those, and many others, are questions you should be examining with your GENDER therapist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shayna2008

So you think the decision to start hrt (or not to) should come before Real Life Experience/Test? Is the thinking that HRT could help me pass easier and therefore make the RLE easier? Just making sure I understand. I don't have any plans or intentions of SRS right now. Sorry for not mentioning this earlier, but that's not even on the radar for me right now.

The counseling center I'm going to does work with individuals with gender issues.

Thank you all for the responses btw.

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The general idea is it eliminates the sexual componant from the equasion. HRT also effects the mind and allows you to make an informed decision on wether or not that continuance of transition is right for you. You can stop and transition back at anything while on HRT but after 3 months there are irreversable changes such as breast development, and reduced/elemination erectyle function and a host of other issues. Of course indivudual results will vary.

No easy answers. Your counsellor can hep you talk out your unique issues. Not that my story is or should be yours, but I have some observations about HRT, perhaps it will be of some relevance to you.

Being trans means I have feelings not experienced by the majority of people. My trans self is me - and I can't change that. If I measure my trans self by "majority" standards on binary gender appearance, I am always noting the difference and I always feel very different. So I try to measure my self by other standards, like work ethic, behavior, etc. I don't feel so isolated then.

For years I thought my choice was I can present to the 'majority' as my given gender (male in my case), and have easy social acceptance but the internal misery of my unspoken desires and frustrations about not presenting how 'I' want to, or I can present as the opposite gender (a woman in my case) and live with whatever degrees of social ostracism come from those who don't like the differences I still present, and I can be happier inside. If I do present in the opposite gender, I can do some things to enhance how I want to look (or viewed differently - to hide my chromosonal differences from the majority), like remove facial hair or have surgical changes or take cross gender hormones. I thought how 'comfortable' we each are in these trade-offs seems to be what determines our path.

My personal feeling is I would rather present full time as a woman. But I'm upper middle age, have never passed well, and have a career that I'm too comfortable in to restart. So for me, I traded easy social acceptance for my personal happiness by staying in stealth.

But, I couldn't hold that deal. The desire to present as a woman is strong and staying in stealth led me deeper into depression and isolation and I ended up with a bigger acceptance problem, I didn't like myself. (That was a bad time mental health wise).

So, still being unwilling to present as a woman and wreck a career and impose economic hardship on my self and my family, I went on HRT. You know the host of issues that go with it, but I did it anyway. No fulltime RLT, no SRS. I did mix in whatever clothes changes I could easily get away with (womens jeans, underwear, etc) and what little cosmetic things I could (eyebrows groomed, face creams, etc.)

But it is the cross gender HT that has made my life bearable, enjoyable even. I can't explain all the whys of it. I feel 'way' better. I have small breasts which I think are cool but my wife doesn't, and among my peers with flabby male chests, I draw few second looks. And, when taking cross gender hormones I don't have the overwhelming urge to go cross dress. I am so much more content with myself. If I slide and decrease or stop hormones all the desires to crossdress and buy designer clothes return, along with the unhappiness about myself. I have come to 'feel' like testosterone is bad and poisonous. A feeling other MTF's have reached too.

But basically I am still stealth - trading easier social acceptance for degrees of personal happiness. How you balance your scales is your call.

hugs,
'lissa

Dear 'lissa,

I certainly can agree with the poison bit. I have gone a lot further than you (all the way), but found my experience with hormone therapy remarkably similar to yours.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Doing some research on HRT can't hurt and can inform. I agree with your therapist though, you're going at it backwards. Slow down a bit and consider gaining experiences. I do not necessarily mean "RLE" either, it is a specific thing and truly means, living as a woman. Not doing it on M-Th and then changing your mind. Now don't get me wrong, part time experiences are good for you! I just mean stop worrying about the things near the end of transition and concentrate on figuring out your gender and what it is.

One thing about HRT, seems intriguing, fun, wild etc... but remember it can be dangerous and to a great degree non-reversible. Especially the longer to take it. Decide a couple years down the road that you made a mistake and you may find yourself unable to "go back" completely.

Stay working with that therapist, if you can :thumbsup:.

I know that HRT will not transform me into a woman. It makes many physical and emotional changes that can help make life easier for the trans person, if they feel it's right for them that is.

I ponder HRT because I'm curious if the changes will help me in my life. I am intrigued at the possibility that HRT could make me calmer, and more content. The thought of RLE scares me greatly, but the thought of body and mind changes to accommodate my new potentially permanent role I think would make this much easier to do (i.e. more confidence). It makes me feel better about dressing and trying to function socially as Shayna.

Right now as I am I feel like I'm in a limbo state. I'm unsure what I want or how to determine it. Because of this I'm hesitant about committing to anything. For example, I know my GF would like to get engaged and eventually married (she has mentioned the desire several times), yet I fear doing it because I'm not sure which path I will end up with. She has told me to my face that she doesn't want me on hormones. I also feel weird around men and women because I feel all these other feelings, which I think prevents me from having normal interaction.

I've been in this awkward limbo state for several years now dealing with the same issues (going around in circles it seems). I'm tired of feeling this way and am looking into ways to help the situation.

One thing I realized is that I'm sure that I'm not a "classic transexual". I don't feel disgusted by my male genitals, and I don't feel like I was "cheated" by being born a male. Two common feelings many transexuals have.
On one hand I fear HRT because of the implications (social, career, health, financial, etc), yet I also feel like I will be missing out if I just spend the rest of my life CD'ing. I hope this metaphor helps:
"I've been living in a small minimal house and am looking at the mcmansion across the street. Now I look at my own minimal house and feel that I'm missing out on so much. I'm unsure if I want to spend the rest of my days in my minimal house."

Sorry for the lengthy post, I just wanna make sure I'm being accurate and clear with my response (if that's possible).

Well Shayna, as clear as your post is, I'm in limbo on my thoughts on what to think you really are, it's like I see no definite direction of how you feel, it's like a split right down the middle at this point..
Of course it's not up to me to say, but hard to give you an direction ..I guess, just do some more soul searching, and do it without distractions, I would also hold off on getting permanently hitched at this point until you are more sure of yourself..
Can I ask you your age??

Karen, I am 23 years old. You're right, it is a split right now. I have been taking much more time to do soul searching lately. I'm also trying to learn as many options as possible with my life.

OK, 23 is still young, I'm thinking back to when I was that age, and what I was doing was fighting it, I knew how I felt inside, but was too scared to show my true self, so I went into denial, and by then I was body building, stupid me thought I could make my feelings go away, and it did for a couple years, then I saw my body in the mirror one day, and it hit me like a ton of bricks, like what the F**k am I doing to my body!, I freaked and immediately stopped body building, because I think even then knew that someday I may need to change my body to be that of the girl I felt I was inside..so I'm glad I stopped that, but I didn't go on with my wishes until 20 years after that..

So, my question to you is, How do you feel inside??? I mean, REALLY feel, do you vision yourself in bed with a guy having sex, does the thought of having a vagina scare you, or comfort you...stuff like that..
You mentioned that you'd like to just CD, but you dont want to feel like your missing out ....
So what do you think your going to miss out on???

Shayna, I agree with the others who recommend taking it slow and holding off on HRT or anything that has any potentially permanent implications. 23 is very young really. Even though many people seem to have everything figured out by the time they are 23, many more do not.

It sounds to me like you're pressuring yourself to conform to some sort of arbitrary timetable for your life. You should not feel that there is something wrong with you because you don't have a clear life plan yet. You said you are also unclear about a career, so it sounds like you are just a "late bloomer" and you have to go at your own pace. I don't think you should look for quick fixes from a pill or a particular therapist or method. Do whatever you need to explore yourself but make sure it is safe and not permanent.

:2c:

Shayna,

I remember all too well the years of going in circles. It is like being out in the middle of a lake in a boat with one oar.

I was scared to admit what I knew deep inside for as long as I can remember.... I am a woman not a man. I do not have the "classical transsexual" feelings either and can't recall ever hating my anatomy (except with it caused me pain). I was so afraid of being honest with myself, the consequences to me and my family, the shame I felt for being this way, and the conditioning for so many years growing up, that I simply forced myself to ignore and bury it. I was once "cured" by a psychiatrist of my "compulsive transvestism" because I was too afraid to admit what I really felt.

I worked hard for decades trying to hide from myself and for periods of time when life was distracting I could. Now at age 54, I am 8 months into transition. At this point I am working hard to overcome all the things that had I started earlier in life, would be much easier.

Do not commit to your girlfriend at this point, because you are so unsure about yourself. You have a high potential for hurting her and yourself more should you marry, than if you do split over your search for being yourself. As so many here can attest, deciding 20 years from now that you MUST be a woman, will be much more difficult on both of you.

No matter how many things you think you may lose, or actually do lose, one day you will realize the truth (whatever that is for you). Love and accept yourself and the rest will follow. It may be difficult, but when you sit back you will be at peace with yourself.

Veronica

It's true that the mones can calm you down, but so can a lot of other things that won't change your body. You need to find an answer to the question that Karen asked, "how do you feel inside?" Don't worry about being a "classic" transsexual, do you feel that you are or could be a woman inside now?

In any event, you're an adult and it sounds like you've had this on your mind for awhile now, you could try a low dose for awhile to see how it feels, then take it from there.

Karen :g1:

Karen is right Shayna...there is a very simple question...but it's brutally hard to answer, do you feel you are a woman? If the answer is yes, and you feel this way persistently, then the whole set of next questions is related to HRT, timing, other people,etc etc,,,

do you see what i'm saying?...trying to answer that first question ONLY, regardless of others and timetables is your key and everything else must come from that...all that "other stuff" gets in the way of the most important part of this. who are you?

so many of us go the other way around

Shayna, first let me say that I admire the honesty and sincerity with which you are pondering your situation. And I can absolutely relate to your feelings about your gender identity and juggling priorities.

On this forum, you often hear us older gurls speculating that we would have done things differently had we known all this about ourselves when we were your age. I know I have. But some of that may just be wishful thinking, because the reality is you can't separate all this from the need -- actually the responsibility -- to pursue a productive and happy life. Personally, I think you need to figure that out (career, marriage, etc) and how your gender ID factors into it before you go doing anything drastic.

Honestly, what I'm hearing from you is that there isn't really anything desperately pressing about your feelings and needs that would require you to start down the path to a transsexual identity. So I guess I would ask you, what's so terribly wrong with the way things are right now? I think KatlynAshe made a very good point, it doesn't seem to me that you have explored fully enough what a 24/7 life would be like, and how it would affect your other life pursuits, to be thinking about HRT. Maybe you're thinking HRT would remove some of the barriers to doing just that, but that isn't necessarily true. To the degree that the world around us is TG-tolerant, it seems better able to cope with a woman-trapped-in-a-man's-body TS than any variation short of that. And you've said yourself that's not how you feel. So at this point, I think you'd just be replacing one set of problems with another.

As for the mcmansion, figure out who's going to live there and how you're going to pay for it before you start building it. :)

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Although I live with my folks currently, I will work harder to have more time as Shayna as I am now. I will focus on moving out next year, which will make it easier to get ready and actually leave and go out as Shayna. For me, this is the most strategic thing I can do currently.

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Originally Posted by Shayna2008

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Although I live with my folks currently, I will work harder to have more time as Shayna as I am now. I will focus on moving out next year, which will make it easier to get ready and actually leave and go out as Shayna. For me, this is the most strategic thing I can do currently.

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Sounds like a good plan. I believe that will be an exciting new stage in your life that will answer many of your questions.

Let me sow one more seed with you. You mentioned that you're about to finish college, which I know will be a big relief, but if you're entertaining the possibility of living 24/7 at some point in the future, you might give some thought to post-graduate degrees, which will enhance your chances of successfully blending career and lifestyle. The more accredited and expert you are in your chosen field, the less your gender choice will matter.

I agree that moving away from your folks would be the smart thing to do, before anything else. You are constrained and under pressure at home, and that can skew everything in all kinds of ways, many of which you may not even be aware of now. On your own you will have more freedom, but also more responsibility. I think both are important to help you make the right decision at the right time.