Why can't I ???

Well, several years ago I told my wife about my desire to CD. Needless to say, she didn't take it do well. After a few months she gave me a 6 page letter stating that I could stop this or she would take the girls and leave. She didn't want people to find out because it would cost me my job. And they would all be embarrassed. So I acted without putting any thought to it, other than on my family. Where it should be.

Before I told her about Paula, we talked about fantisies. I ask her to buy me some panties and she did. Let me wear them and all, she just ask that I keep them in her drawer so the girls wouldn't find out. She even bought me some other items. Panties sleep tops, etc. Just s few things. She said that it took away my masculinty, and she didn't know what to think about that.

So back to the story, I know that I overwhelmed her when I showed her the things that I had bought over the years. And I wasn't prepared to answer those questions. I had a book that I let her read, "my husband wears my clothes". She said that she read part of it. I really don't know. Anyway after this I was given the ultimatum, Stop or we are gone!

I stopped for a few years. Now after I feel off the wagon.. LoL I found this site, and a lot of helpful stories. I would love to talk to her about this again. But I can't! It's like if the subject is ever mentioned about a guy wearing women's clothes. She just smarts off about it. Or laughs and I think she is secretly laughing at me. I just don't want yo loose my family... But I don't want yo hide anything from my wife. She said before as long as I was open with her that we could compromise. Well after the ultimatum I felt pushed right back into the closet. I ordered a panty and bra set from the net, thinking I would be there when they arrived. I was gone and she got them. Called me really angry. And so the arguememt was on. Ending with hurt feelings and her telling me that she didn't want me buying "that stuff" anymore.

You know I'd love to be back to getting a little room of acceptance. But I just can't figure out how to bring it up. I really want to just love her, and be "the MAN" she married. But I CD! And like it. I don't want to become a woman. I don't want to be with anybody else. I just want her to love all of me. Not just what she wants of me. I have been with her for 20 years, and she isn't perfect, but I live with those things. And some of the things she does, I hate to the core. But she doesn't stop or change. SO!

Why Can't I???

I know the drill!! And I'd love acceptance too but for me its family first.. And will always be that way.. My wife didn't sign up for this so I don't blame her one bit for her attitude..

Sounds like rather complicated issue you are involved right now.

I really think you should have a nice long chat with her about this matter. It could be that she's just simply afraid of losing the "man" she once married. If she avoids the topic you can do it the same way she did and write a letter about the feelings you have about this matter. There has to be a way for you both to cope with this in a way that it will not harm your family or your lives in anyway. She did buy you some panties in the beginning and didn't have a problem with you wearing them as long as the girls didn't find out about it.

Take some time to think about your own feelings and write them down. This way you can give them to her and she won't really be able to "avoid" the topic. If she does, I don't think she deserves to be with you at all. No matter what the issues is it should never be ignored by one side. A relationship always involves two people and compromises have to be done in some cases but it's not a compromise if you have to give up on something you like to do.

Everyone needs something to keep themselves balanced. Be it reading a book, taking pictures or dressing into female clothes. If you can't have something to relax yourself your life won't be all that nice in the end. I really hope your wife sees into this matter as I truly think that no marriage should be broken because of something like this. Changing a sex is another matter but you have no plans of doing this so I really don't see a reason why she would have the need to forbid you your little hobby. She can have her say about when and how you do it but she can't dictate alone what you can do or not. That is not a the way a relationship should go. You both love each others, don't you? Two loving people wanting to hurt each others isn't a sight anyone wants to see.

My wife and I would periodically go through crises about my crossdressing. She never threatened to leave me or anything, but we had more than a few tearful scenes about it. Finally a couple of years ago we decided to see a therapist. It's no miracle cure, but it is a third party to referee the discussion. In an ideal world, I would have gotten complete acceptance from her, but, with the help of the therapist we seem to have negotiated a kind of grudging tolerance. We were blessed to have a genuine expert on gender identity as our therapist, but, I'm sure with a little research you could find a qualified therapist in your area.

I disagree with Shikyo. Paula's wife did not know about the crossdressing initially. When he wanted to wear women's underwear she agreed because it could easily have fallen into the category of "sex play". However, when he admitted to being a crossdresser he crossed the line and she did not sign up for that. As a crossdresser myself I easily see why it would not be appealing for a wife. Many marriages end up in divorce over this proclivity; many couples are in therapy because of it, attempting to save their marriages. Unless the crossdresser admits to the crossdressing before any commitments are made, he has absolutely no right to demand acceptance, or even expect it.

Karren Hutton is right on. Family first. If a habit or activity is injurious to a relationship it should be eliminated or, if acceptable to both parties, at least curtailed. It is paramount that the spouse know what is going on with the crossdressing. An unknowing spouse, upon discovering a cache' of women's clothing and then learning they're her husband's clothes, is hit with a tsunami of information which, I believe in most cases, harms or destroys the marriage.

That's a tough one Paula. Hopefully, you can work it out where you could do it when she's not around etc. My wife has been a reluctant accepter but I know will never fully accept. She knows I dress when noone's home & is fine with that. On this site, there's all different gg acceptance levels & I guess it's up to each individual couple to workout where they have to be at.

EveMarie: Your quote must have been written by a crossdresser. I believe in reality we are a rather selfish lot.

I am willing to sacrifice a lot, including CD, for the reward, and the trial and tribulation too, of parenthood. Everybody is different, but I take the duties of being a parent very seriously. While an SO did not sign up for a crossdressing husband, children definitely do not deserve to suffer as a result of my desire to CD. I helped bring them into this world, they are my utmost responsibilities. That is not to say we cannot be a serious parent as a divorced couple, a lot of times divorce works out for the better. But if I have to chose, I am more than willing to put off CD for a happy family and until the children are gone. This is a personal choice, there is no right or wrong answer, I think the important people the children, not ourselves. My apologies if I appear to be proselytizing.

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Originally Posted by Thalia

Karren Hutton is right on. Family first. If a habit or activity is injurious to a relationship it should be eliminated or, if acceptable to both parties, at least curtailed.

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Oh, right, so all I have to do is solemnly say three times, "I will not cross-dress", and that's that?? Do I have to add in a few
"Abracadabra"s, or a few "Hocus Pocus"es, or a few "Please, God!"s?

Thalia, either you haven't encountered some of our stories yet, or you haven't been listening. There is medical evidence that for at least some of us, cross-dressing is caused by our bio-chemical conditions. Stopping can be very harmful for us. How harmful? Dehabilitating. And I mean that completely seriously.

It doesn't do my wife any good if I can't work and have to sleep most of the day and have no initiative and cannot plan anything and am on a hair trigger and yell at her over trivial things and nearly throw up if I have to do something simple like put dishes in the dish washer. I went through all of that (except that I was fortunate enough that they moved me to another job instead of firing me), and the only thing that has really helped me has been accepting my cross-dressing.

If you have a serious medical condition, then "Family first" means treating that medical condition. The only known treatment for what-ever causes the urge to cross-dress... is to cross-dress.

Perhaps some people can permanently stop wanting to cross-dress -- though the only known cases of that have been through "aversion therapy". Think "A Clockwork Orange". Think electro-shock treatment. Think 75% or more failure rate at removing the actual desire, leaving the person with both the desire and getting sick every time the desire manifests, because of the aversion therapy treatment.

Beyond that, the best people can do is seal the desire inside themselves and hope doing so doesn't damage them too much.

I know one person who sealed away the desire for 8 years... and then one day suddenly had a complete breakdown and (by their own account) would have committed suicide that day if they had not happened to have the opportunity to chat for hours to someone who helped them accept themselves as-is and move forwards; the person is working on full transition now. Why did they seal the desire away? For "family reasons".

Gosh, suicide is just so family-friendly. :doh:

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Originally Posted by Thalia

EveMarie: Your quote must have been written by a crossdresser. I believe in reality we are a rather selfish lot.

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Clearly, You Just Don't Get It.

In the old days, the phrase they would have used for what happened to me would have been "Nervous Breakdown". And it wasn't from me throwing a big tantrum at being denied the toy (Cross-dressing) that I had seen and wanted: I didn't even know I was a cross-dresser until after medication had repaired enough brain circuits that I was able to bring the matter to conscious attention. And the breakdown was merely the point at which my condition overwhelmed my internal reserves: my doctor said quite clearly that based upon the cortisone levels in my body, he could tell that I had been sick for at least 5 years; knowing the symptoms, I can date back-date it at least 3 years further than that.

Selfish. Pshaw! You know nothing about my life! Let me summarize it this way: my altruism test scores rank me above the 90th percentile.

When you are in a relationship there is one rule of thumb that never changes. The SO is not always right but she is never wrong. That is a fact that we, as men (CDing notwithstanding) have to learn to live with.:)

that is why it is so important to not hide anything from a future spouse during courtship, I do not hide the fact that I crossdress from any woman that I date long term, that probably explains Why I am not married, but at least I am not putting some wife through hell over crossdressing, plus I am not putting myself through hell either. I find alot of women are intrigued by us crossdressers, but they would not want to be married to a crossdresser. I agree with Thalia, I do find that alot of crossdressers are very selfish, and they cause there families alot of pain because of it.
I am dressed enfemme most of the time when I am not working, and sometimes when I am working, (though rare) I meet alot of peaple, the women only accept me as one of them, but would not want to be in a relationship.

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Originally Posted by Thalia

I disagree with Shikyo. Paula's wife did not know about the crossdressing initially. When he wanted to wear women's underwear she agreed because it could easily have fallen into the category of "sex play". However, when he admitted to being a crossdresser he crossed the line and she did not sign up for that. As a crossdresser myself I easily see why it would not be appealing for a wife. Many marriages end up in divorce over this proclivity; many couples are in therapy because of it, attempting to save their marriages. Unless the crossdresser admits to the crossdressing before any commitments are made, he has absolutely no right to demand acceptance, or even expect it.

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So if you don't know something before you get married it gives you to the right to stop loving someone or even demand them to stop it just because you want. If the wife has the right to demand the husband to stop crossdressing what will the husband get to demand the wife to stop? To a relationship always belong two and one can make rules about things but if you want to forbid something you better be ready to give up on something else.

Let's see what else we could add to this:

-pregnancy
-sicknesses
-accidents
-mental problems(everything to do with the mental side of the body be it therapy because of an addiction or something totally else)
-smoking
-drinking coffee

The list could go on for a while. Do you think any of these reasons would be a reason to stop loving someone just because you didn't know about it when you first got married maybe because it hadn't started yet or it hadn't been found out yet.

By the way, my wife is no lesbian and far from being bisexual and I'm changing my sex to female. Despite all this she doesn't want to leave me because she loves me and is doing her best to deal with this matter(just like I'm doing my best to make it as easy on her as I can). She would prefer me staying male when she first married but she does understand that it just isn't going to work out like that. She also knows that there would be no future for us if I would try to stay male.

Sigh, back when I was in relationship and had a child... I thought I was CD. And the one thing that she did was to use my fear of exposure as leverage in the relationship. Could it be that you're wife is doing the same? The fear of losing everything gives her the power. The line from "Dune'' "He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing." I ache for your hurt,and need. For acceptance. Time honey, and patience, that's all I can offer. And of course, a hug and love. Carol

When one is very young and crossdressing is equated first with love and affection, then the sexual desires it is bringing out are not generally the thing uppermost on the mind, or heart.

I was a "virgin" when I married at a young age and I LOVED all things femme. For me, feeling, touching, smelling any and all things femme just made me believe that I wanted to be very close to my partner; not that I was looking for my other identity. At that time of my life CDing wasn't really mentioned because I never really realized that that is what was at the root of all my desires and the frustrations that came from hiding it.

Yes, family is first. I raised my four children without them ever knowing I had any conduct or desires that ran contrary to conventional thinking. Both my wife and I forgave each other for our failures and weaknesses through the years. I was (and am) less than totally honest with her and that is a torment to me now.

I just don't know what would happen but it would not be a series of bargains and compromises for either of us. It will probably be hurtful, ugly and final but I feel we are approaching that time and place.

Good luck to you and I sincerely hope you find happiness.

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Originally Posted by Shikyo

So if you don't know something before you get married it gives you to the right to stop loving someone or even demand them to stop it just because you want. If the wife has the right to demand the husband to stop crossdressing what will the husband get to demand the wife to stop? To a relationship always belong two and one can make rules about things but if you want to forbid something you better be ready to give up on something else.

Let's see what else we could add to this:

-pregnancy
-sicknesses
-accidents
-mental problems(everything to do with the mental side of the body be it therapy because of an addiction or something totally else)
-smoking
-drinking coffee

The list could go on for a while. Do you think any of these reasons would be a reason to stop loving someone just because you didn't know about it when you first got married maybe because it hadn't started yet or it hadn't been found out yet.

By the way, my wife is no lesbian and far from being bisexual and I'm changing my sex to female. Despite all this she doesn't want to leave me because she loves me and is doing her best to deal with this matter(just like I'm doing my best to make it as easy on her as I can). She would prefer me staying male when she first married but she does understand that it just isn't going to work out like that. She also knows that there would be no future for us if I would try to stay male.

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Your wife must be pretty awesome in that she is willing to give up her happiness for you. She's probably giving up just about every notion that she ever expected to get out of marriage, kids, sex, a man. I am not sure what someone could do to "make it easier on HER" though, maybe you could share just what that means with others in order that it may help them in their own relationships. :strugglin

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Originally Posted by EveMarie

Ithis quote pretty well summed up what I had to admit was true for me, this doesn't apply to everyone but I thought it was so well put, I had to share:
...

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I guess my wife must truely love me cause yes, me being TG is one of the reasons (tho not the main reason) we are splitting.
She had said "Well this is the kind of life you want to lead, I might as well let you do it... ...someday you might meet someone who is able to deal with it but I just can't..."

It is asking a lot for someone to sacrafice their own happiness.
Besides, in this world, you really don't owe anything to anyone.
Some GG's may think a man owes their happiness. And maybe some TS who THINK they are GG's :brolleyes: feel this way about men. Well it isn't the case. You don't owe them, they don't owe you.

But anyways, yeah it might be time to decide if the relationship can really survive.

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

It is asking a lot for someone to sacrafice their own happiness.
Besides, in this world, you really don't owe anything to anyone.
Some GG's may think a man owes their happiness.

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Realizing that my wife didn't owe me any of several things that I expected was very hard on me -- but liberating. Liberating in that I was able to give up a lot of anger and resentment that I'd been holding in. I don't pretend that I don't still want those things, but they become cases of "You can't always get what you want" instead of me being upset with her personally.

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

Your wife must be pretty awesome in that she is willing to give up her happiness for you. She's probably giving up just about every notion that she ever expected to get out of marriage, kids, sex, a man. I am not sure what someone could do to "make it easier on HER" though, maybe you could share just what that means with others in order that it may help them in their own relationships. :strugglin

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Actually, never mind. I just remembered that it's not worth discussing with you at all as you seem to have something against me.

I understand both sides of this issue fairly well, though I am not experiencing them yet. Whether the SO was told or not before marriage for whetever reason, the fact is that one has changed and has a relationship and life changing issue to deal with and, share with the SO. Good or bad, too soon or too late, that is the (for both sides), or maybe we could call that compromise. Some people tell there SO and some don't. I know both types. Once the truth is out, partially or completely, it is decision time for both, not just the confessing or discovered party. If the CD/TG/TS can keep it inside or live with certain restrictions self-imposed or imposed by the SO, and remain sane and carry on an almost acceptable life with their SO at the same time, that is fine. However, that does not always work out for everyone and that is where that hard decision comes into play, to separate and give both parties a chance to get on with there lives.

I do not believe that one has to "suck it in" and be brave and sacrifice all for the innocent party. I do believe that both parties need to make that hard decision whetherto stay together or not. Sure, some can stay together and make it work, but others will suffer seriously and potentially cause more harm to the SO, themselves and those innocent bystanding children. I do not believe that one shoe nor one recommendation fits all feet and all people.

So, my recommendation is to sit down by yourself and think, analyse, get professional help if you can, and then decide. Good, long, open, honest and hard discussions with the SO are also needed. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

I

Some GG's may think a man owes their happiness. And maybe some TS who THINK they are GG's :brolleyes: feel this way about men. Well it isn't the case. You don't owe them, they don't owe you.

But anyways, yeah it might be time to decide if the relationship can really survive.

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I suppose you could look at it like that Nicole, and "technically" you may be correct. Nobody really does "owe" anybody anything. So it it would perfectly acceptable for everyone to just do as they please, without regard for for anyone else, because you don't "owe" them anything. Great words to live by.
Did you ever stop to think that that TS who you say thinks that they a real gg might in reality just be someone who has the ability to look at both sides of the coin? You want the right to live your life as you see fit, and as to what makes you happy, yet you seem to take issue with others who want the same thing for themselves. You obviously feel that your right trumps theirs which seem so me go right along with your "I don't owe anyone anything attitude".

Your friend



kelly :heehee:

Hi Ladies... All,

Can I jump in here for just a thought?

Please, How can your lovely wifes understand if you don't tell them what it's all about ?
We can't read your mind. But one thing is for sure, if a women really has been blessed with a husband who can and will love her enough to explain what CD is all about it is no longer scary and only understanding will lead to exceptance.

I wish you [ and your partners ] happyness and the most out of life.

Presh GG

Her ultimatum means that you suffer cause she sure ain't going to. Some relationship. It's supposed to be about working thru problems. Oh by the way dear, I just got cancer. Her: "You deal with it, I don't want to see any meds or nutin' around the house".

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Originally Posted by AmandaM

Her ultimatum means that you suffer cause she sure ain't going to. Some relationship. It's supposed to be about working thru problems. Oh by the way dear, I just got cancer. Her: "You deal with it, I don't want to see any meds or nutin' around the house".

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I am far from being an expert on this matter, but yeah, what she said. ;)

would all of the girls here be ok if their wife or SO came home and decided she was going to start going around the house en male including faux facial/body hair and a zucchini down the front of their pants? walking with a male gait? going out in the garage like that to change the oil? strolling downtown?
so obviously i dont mean just jeans and a mans button down shirt, which can still be fem/sexy on a GG. i am talking trying to look like a man by deploying all of the things that normally separate us to the casual observer: both dress and behaviors? because that is kind of what a lot of us do, not just clothes.
i have never really contemplated this, but at first though it has zero appeal.

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Originally Posted by jenniferishappy

would all of the girls here be ok if their wife or SO came home and decided she was going to start going around the house en male including faux facial/body hair and a zucchini down the front of their pants? walking with a male gait? going out in the garage like that to change the oil? strolling downtown?
so obviously i dont mean just jeans and a mans button down shirt, which can still be fem/sexy on a GG. i am talking trying to look like a man by deploying all of the things that normally separate us to the casual observer: both dress and behaviors? because that is kind of what a lot of us do, not just clothes.
i have never really contemplated this, but at first though it has zero appeal.

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I would have absolutely no problem with that. To me something like this isn't a reason to stop loving someone or stop giving support. She'll get all my support for whatever she wants to do.

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Originally Posted by paulaluvssz8

And so the arguememt was on. Ending with hurt feelings and her telling me that she didn't want me buying "that stuff" anymore.

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Your wife believes the CDing is an option, and if you love her enough, you will stop. You need to let her know that it is as much a part of you as the color of your eyes. Tell her what you wrote in your last paragraph. Tell her that you do not want to lose your marriage over this, but you cannot change who you are. You were born with this.

Invite her to come to the forum and join FAB. Read the sticky, "How to Tell Your Partner" at the top of this section.

[QUOTE=paulaluvssz8;1985591] And some of the things she does, I hate to the core. But she doesn't stop or change. SO!/QUOTE]

grrrr this is something that came up when I left my wife... she was allowed infinite judgement on anything I did but I was allowed no criticism of her.
In my limited life, this is too often the case. Women have so much power in typical relationships and men have to settle for whatever bones they are offered.

sorry to vent but this struck a nerve :2c:

I do not want to make my post long and boring. All I can do is point out what happened to me with my wife and my marriage.
My ex found my cd'ing unacceptable
I tried to drink the girl away for years. That was more acceptable than cd'ing. seems like anyway.
When I gave up drinking the girl inside had to come out to some extent. This was really unacceptable. What will her friends think.
I raised my kids to adulthood. So now it was time for me. At least some girl time. I am now sober and Paula needs some freedom. Also unacceptable. Ex still wanted the man she married. I was a cd back then too.
I started to push the hole cd thing. Maybe too much. But she was pushing too. She was making my life so miserable.
With the misery and pain I made decisions that was wrong. But in my defense. I had to have some happiness too.
We ended up divorced after 31 years. As you can see from what I have wrote. Everything about being a cd was unacceptable. Still is. Her attitude is cd'ing is fine just not her husband.
Being married is a partnership. I tried to make my marriage work and she will say the same. It just got to the point that we were not partners any more. I still blame her for her unacceptance of my cd'ing and unwillingness to stop her drinking as reasons for our divorce. Of course that is just my point of view too.
So that's what happened to me. I wish you the very best in trying to work all of this out. I think everyone here has made very good points as to what is right or wrong. But really there is no real right or wrong answers to life now is there. We all have to make choices and sometimes the choices we make hurt like hell. Such is life.

Just two quick points. One is I keep reading about how shellfish CD's are, this in reply to someone talking about how demanding their SO is. We hear about so many wives demanding, it's my way or the highway, why has no one thought that maybe it's wives that come off as the selfish one. As Sandra has pointed out, for a lot of us, it is medically beyond are control. Many of the CD's on this site have gone to great lengths to bury the need, or to hide it from sight, just to please someone else, how is that selfish?
Point two, and this will sound harsh. Some times you just have to cut your losses, and move on. But life is to short to spend 20 or 30 or more years miserable, trying to keep someone else happy.
Tina

My wife frequently insists that crossdressing is a choice. I contend that I was born this way. She says, "You can control it, if you want to. You keep looking at men in drag online--that is gay."

I say, "I didn't know I was a cd before we were married." She says , "Yes, you did. you didn't tell me. I didn't sign up for this." Sigh.
We are working it out as best we can.

The bottom line, you have a commitment to your kids.

My avatar pic is the last time I dressed in 1999 after a lifetime. I personally decided to choose my wife over my femme self. Not ten conscious minutes have gone by since that decision that I don't think about and want to dress again. But I made my choice. My choice is mine alone, but don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't stop. While one doesn't choose to be a crossdresser, one certainly makes a choice to crossdress. It isn't easy or fun to abstain, and you will get a lot of more trans than thou attitude from others. But yes, we all have the power to abstain.

I dont have a wife or kids but if I did They will always com first no matter what.

Sorry to hear about this. It is sad when a SO instead of working things out with her partner and tackling her own prejudices instead opts for the head in the sand approach and, in your case, added emotional blackmail of separation and the kids.

As you pointed out when she thought it was just a sexual fetish then she played along but when the concept of crossdressing was revealed her prejudices were triggered. The only way to get around this is to demonstrate that her feelings on the matter are ill-informed and baseless. The trick is how to get her started on the educational route where she can lay her fears to rest and work out a compromise.

One thing to counter her ultimatum with is to point out that her taking off with the kids is going to create far more harm to their emotional development than her dealing with your crossdressing. If there is any selfishness on display here, it is the one who is needlessly threatening to break-up the relationship and harm the kids in the process.

You need to develop the belief in yourself that you are not doing anything wrong and you should stand up for what you are. Her feelings on CDing are ensuring that she is dealing with this the wrong way. She needs assistance from others to change her understanding.

Hello all. I do appreciate all comments. I know that there is a lot of experience in this matter. I'm going to have to make a decesion about me, and my cding. I will assure you all that first and foremost I will keep my family in mind. I will only do what's best for us. And if I have to dress in the closet while she is gone. Well that's what I'll do. Just to keep peace and togetherness. I'm aware the dressing is a choice for me. I do it for the pleasure, and I know that must really bother others. But that's me... My only regrets are that I didn't find this site before I told her about my desire to dress. Could have used the advice. Oh well, I hope that you all have a very Happy New Year! And I'll be around, either in or out of the closet.

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Originally Posted by paulaluvssz8

You know I'd love to be back to getting a little room of acceptance. But I just can't figure out how to bring it up. I really want to just love her, and be "the MAN" she married. But I CD! And like it. I don't want to become a woman. I don't want to be with anybody else. I just want her to love all of me. Not just what she wants of me. I have been with her for 20 years, and she isn't perfect, but I live with those things. And some of the things she does, I hate to the core. But she doesn't stop or change. SO!

Why Can't I???

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Why can't you? Why didn't you tell her b-e-f-o-r-e you married her? Where was this "Why can't I" attitude back then?

Your wife, assuming she's straight, needs a masculine man just as much as you need to dress. It's amazing to me how much the wives of CDs will give up to keep their families together and how very little the CDs themselves will do for same.

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Originally Posted by Acadeca

Your wife, assuming she's straight, needs a masculine man just as much as you need to dress.

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Possibly true in the case of the original poster, but not true for all of us here.

In my opinion, your statement is perpetuating myths that confuse biological sex, sexual orientation, and gender -- perpetuating the 50's "Men should be men, and women should be women!" myth. I bet you can't even define your terms precisely, as to what it means exactly to be "straight" or "masculine". For example, I have encountered many women who say they are "straight" and whom enjoy looking at scantily-clad good-looking women: have all those women been "lying" about being straight, or have they all been "latent bisexuals"? Because if they have all been "latent bisexuals" in your definitions, then the average is noticeably different than the "pure hetrosexual" that you imply in your statement.

If you were speaking generally about "the need to dress" rather than specifically about the need as experienced by the original poster, then you were wrong and should go back and read my posting in this thread about the medical effects I experienced.

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Originally Posted by Acadeca

It's amazing to me how much the wives of CDs will give up to keep their families together and how very little the CDs themselves will do for same.

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It's amazing to me how much people can generalize about the lives of CDs they have never even met and don't know about.

For example, I have been allowing for the last 18 months something that two different therapists have said they personally wouldn't allow for more than 3 weeks; it is something that statistically damages 80% of marriages and is directly responsible for divorce in 40% of cases; the best time estimate we have is that it will go on for another 3 years (and the psychological effects will last for many years beyond that.)

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Originally Posted by Denise Rhodes

When you are in a relationship there is one rule of thumb that never changes. The SO is not always right but she is never wrong. That is a fact that we, as men (CDing notwithstanding) have to learn to live with.:)

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This is OK until it contradicts professional advice. At that point, it can be abusive.

I speak from experience. :sad:

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

In my opinion, your statement is perpetuating myths that confuse biological sex, sexual orientation, and gender -- perpetuating the 50's "Men should be men, and women should be women!" myth. I bet you can't even define your terms precisely, as to what it means exactly to be "straight" or "masculine". For example, I have encountered many women who say they are "straight" and whom enjoy looking at scantily-clad good-looking women: have all those women been "lying" about being straight, or have they all been "latent bisexuals"? Because if they have all been "latent bisexuals" in your definitions, then the average is noticeably different than the "pure hetrosexual" that you imply in your statement.




It's amazing to me how much people can generalize about the lives of CDs they have never even met and don't know about.

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Be that as it may, people form their own opinons of what defines a "masculine" man. You can rationalize whatever you want, and you may in fact be correct in what you have said, but being correct, doesn't alway "pay the rent" I have my own "definition" of masculine and that's what I look for in an SO. If he doesn't fit my idea of masculine... he's out.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

Sorry to hear about this. It is sad when a SO instead of working things out with her partner and tackling her own prejudices instead opts for the head in the sand approach and, in your case, added emotional blackmail of separation and the kids.

As you pointed out when she thought it was just a sexual fetish then she played along but when the concept of crossdressing was revealed her prejudices were triggered. The only way to get around this is to demonstrate that her feelings on the matter are ill-informed and baseless. The trick is how to get her started on the educational route where she can lay her fears to rest and work out a compromise.

One thing to counter her ultimatum with is to point out that her taking off with the kids is going to create far more harm to their emotional development than her dealing with your crossdressing. If there is any selfishness on display here, it is the one who is needlessly threatening to break-up the relationship and harm the kids in the process.

You need to develop the belief in yourself that you are not doing anything wrong and you should stand up for what you are. Her feelings on CDing are ensuring that she is dealing with this the wrong way. She needs assistance from others to change her understanding.

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I think that it is pretty well accepted that mothers will do whatever they deem necessary to protect their children from harm,whether real or perceived.
i don't think that trying the old "guilt trip" approach ( taking off will do the kids more harm than good) is a good strategy and it may even backfire and really piss her off. Keep in mind that people who tell you to stand up aren't facing the prospect of YOUR marriage going down the tubes. But the good news is that they will probably be here to console you after it happens. " I am so sorry, but at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you were right"! And keep in mind that some people have their own agendas, and believe that sacrifices must be made along the way in order to get the word out, and advance the "cause". sadly I don't have any advice other than to say that were I in your shoes I would seriously consider getting professional help. Whether or not you can work it out is going to be a crap shoot. I wish you the best of luck.
:hugs:

Kelly

Once the gaunlet has been thrown down, the options are limited. The facts are that this "bi-genderedness" that is a part of us is still a very hot issue in the minds of many people. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that it does exist as a problem. When one spouse has their fears pierced, regardless of the issue, this kind of knee-jerk reaction will be the result. If staying married is the goal, then professional help is really the only direct way of approaching the issue. Also, I wouldn't press for joint counseling in the beginning, but let the counselor request you wife to join in as time goes on. He will surely want to interview her.

I am so sorry for your hurt. Without the intervention of a professional, the status quo might be maintained for a long time.

tina

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Originally Posted by Acadeca

Why can't you? Why didn't you tell her b-e-f-o-r-e you married her? Where was this "Why can't I" attitude back then?

Your wife, assuming she's straight, needs a masculine man just as much as you need to dress. It's amazing to me how much the wives of CDs will give up to keep their families together and how very little the CDs themselves will do for same.

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That's a very good observation, and also the way I feel too.

Don't listen to the old goat either, he's just showing off his typically male mind.

But to be fair, there are some CDers that do sacrifice or at least try to curtail their CDing desires & put their SO's & families needs 1st. I have much admiration for them even though I don't really know what goes through the mind of a CDer, but would imagine it's tough for them.

Personally speaking, I could never blame any spouse for not accepting this behavior and live the rest of their lives with it, I know I wouldn't, and they may be able to understand it to some degree like I think I do, but lets face it, if they or I did except this to behavior into the relationship, it is the wives or I that made the sacrifice to save the relationship and live with that pain against our will, while the CDer had done nothing but do what they wanted to without sacrificing anything for anyone.

So, that's why I do NOT view a wife as acting selfish if they cant accept & live with it if it's not their cup of tea, but do view any CDer or transsexual very selfish in EXPECTING their spouse to accept them in their new gender expression role, and when that doesn't happen, blame the the spouse for the relationships demise. I say you reap what you sew.
I do admire all the wives that do except this, and think of them as Saints, for it is something I could never do, and I have the utmost respect for them.

Paula,
Good luck, I'm sure that you will make the the best decision you can and your intension's are honorable as to seeing that your thinking about your wife & family too, not just just yourself in this matter.
Either way, it is a Huge decision that will effect everyone in your life for the rest of their lives, so it's not one to take lightly..

:hugs:

I have some personal experience that I really do want to share with you. Can you email me and let's chat privately?

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Originally Posted by Karen564

Don't listen to the old goat either, he's just showing off his typically male mind.

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Hmmm.

Karen, I have the opinions of 4 different medical professionals that my mind is distinctly atypical, period. The three of them that I have talked to gender issues about indicate that I do not fit the typical "male" pattern (the fourth knew about my gender issues as part of the background to the matters we were dealing with, but they never became the focus.)

These are professionals who have had direct dealings with me, and are privy to details of my life that I have (for various reasons) not mentioned here. The three that I have discussed gender with know of my medical background; one has extensive knowledge of it.

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

Hmmm.

Karen, I have the opinions of 4 different medical professionals that my mind is distinctly atypical, period. The three of them that I have talked to gender issues about indicate that I do not fit the typical "male" pattern (the fourth knew about my gender issues as part of the background to the matters we were dealing with, but they never became the focus.)

These are professionals who have had direct dealings with me, and are privy to details of my life that I have (for various reasons) not mentioned here. The three that I have discussed gender with know of my medical background; one has extensive knowledge of it.

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WhatEverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....period

I'm sorry that you have been told differently..

If you did have a female mind way of thinking, then you wouldn't of posted what you said to Acadeca. period.

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would all of the girls here be OK if their wife or SO came home and decided she was going to start going around the house en male including faux facial/body hair and a zucchini down the front of their pants? walking with a male gait? going out in the garage like that to change the oil? strolling downtown?

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Are you kidding me? :d'oh:

You see everyday all over the place. Downtown, WallyWorld. Some of the are heterosexual and just feel more comfortable wearing their BF's or DH's clothes. I've spoken to some that wear their husbands Hanes of BVD's when Aunt Flo is visiting. Quite the fad several years back was for young HS girls to wear men's boxers as outerwear.

GG get to wear virtually anything and everything the entire spectrum of men's and women's clothing ~ in so long as its "occasion" appropriate.

Women get to be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or even tri-sexual, (as in trying anything with anybody)

But if your born a male? Your confined to this tiny little constrictions as how your suppose to dress, behave, act, and present yourself to the world.

The conotation is that if your a transgendered male your less than a man ~ that your weak. Total and complete bull hockey pucks.

I know! I've more than "validated" my masculinity throughout the course of my life. Being an all-state defensive linebacker, 20+ year United States Marine, expert with the rifle, pistol and other various weapons. Having gone through jungle, mountain and desert warfare training. Having gone trough wars, combat, etc ad nauseum.

Girls just want to have fun, and being a girl is fun. Cross dressing is fun, dressing up is fun, pretending to be someone or something else is fun. Being a girl or being girly is fun. Shopping is fun ~ a lot of things that women naturally get to do and enjoy but not men ~ is just plain old fashion,

There's no doubt in my military mind that I've a partially feminized brain housing group. I've zero spatial perception to the extent that I cannot even wrap a present, I'm lousy at math, I talk endlessly ~ all things that if one has done any study leans toward the feminine.

But there are women that are great at such things.

My point, there are women that are strictly heterosexual but more masculine than your typical male ~ and ditto for some men.

The big problem for the OP is the word "Alabama" (Where I'm from and currently reside)

Were to be found out that I was a CD'r ~ I would be black listed socially, would probally lose my job, and would have a very hard time finding another one, even if the economy was booming. :dh:

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Originally Posted by Dana

Are you kidding me? :d'oh:

You see everyday all over the place. Downtown, WallyWorld. Some of the are heterosexual and just feel more comfortable wearing their BF's or DH's clothes. I've spoken to some that wear their husbands Hanes of BVD's when Aunt Flo is visiting. Quite the fad several years back was for young HS girls to wear men's boxers as outerwear.

GG get to wear virtually anything and everything the entire spectrum of men's and women's clothing ~ in so long as its "occasion" appropriate.

Women get to be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or even tri-sexual, (as in trying anything with anybody)

But if your born a male? Your confined to this tiny little constrictions as how your suppose to dress, behave, act, and present yourself to the world.

The conotation is that if your a transgendered male your less than a man ~ that your weak. Total and complete bull hockey pucks.

I know! I've more than "validated" my masculinity throughout the course of my life. Being an all-state defensive linebacker, 20+ year United States Marine, expert with the rifle, pistol and other various weapons. Having gone through jungle, mountain and desert warfare training. Having gone trough wars, combat, etc ad nauseum.

Girls just want to have fun, and being a girl is fun. Cross dressing is fun, dressing up is fun, pretending to be someone or something else is fun. Being a girl or being girly is fun. Shopping is fun ~ a lot of things that women naturally get to do and enjoy but not men ~ is just plain old fashion,

There's no doubt in my military mind that I've a partially feminized brain housing group. I've zero spatial perception to the extent that I cannot even wrap a present, I'm lousy at math, I talk endlessly ~ all things that if one has done any study leans toward the feminine.

But there are women that are great at such things.

My point, there are women that are strictly heterosexual but more masculine than your typical male ~ and ditto for some men.

The big problem for the OP is the word "Alabama" (Where I'm from and currently reside)

Were to be found out that I was a CD'r ~ I would be black listed socially, would probally lose my job, and would have a very hard time finding another one, even if the economy was booming. :dh:

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And your point is what?

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Originally Posted by Dana

Are you kidding me? :d'oh:

You see everyday all over the place. Downtown, WallyWorld. Some of the are heterosexual and just feel more comfortable wearing their BF's or DH's clothes. I've spoken to some that wear their husbands Hanes of BVD's when Aunt Flo is visiting. Quite the fad several years back was for young HS girls to wear men's boxers as outerwear.

GG get to wear virtually anything and everything the entire spectrum of men's and women's clothing ~ in so long as its "occasion" appropriate.

Women get to be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or even tri-sexual, (as in trying anything with anybody)

But if your born a male? Your confined to this tiny little constrictions as how your suppose to dress, behave, act, and present yourself to the world.

The conotation is that if your a transgendered male your less than a man ~ that your weak. Total and complete bull hockey pucks.

I know! I've more than "validated" my masculinity throughout the course of my life. Being an all-state defensive linebacker, 20+ year United States Marine, expert with the rifle, pistol and other various weapons. Having gone through jungle, mountain and desert warfare training. Having gone trough wars, combat, etc ad nauseum.

Girls just want to have fun, and being a girl is fun. Cross dressing is fun, dressing up is fun, pretending to be someone or something else is fun. Being a girl or being girly is fun. Shopping is fun ~ a lot of things that women naturally get to do and enjoy but not men ~ is just plain old fashion,

There's no doubt in my military mind that I've a partially feminized brain housing group. I've zero spatial perception to the extent that I cannot even wrap a present, I'm lousy at math, I talk endlessly ~ all things that if one has done any study leans toward the feminine.

But there are women that are great at such things.

My point, there are women that are strictly heterosexual but more masculine than your typical male ~ and ditto for some men.

The big problem for the OP is the word "Alabama" (Where I'm from and currently reside)

Were to be found out that I was a CD'r ~ I would be black listed socially, would probally lose my job, and would have a very hard time finding another one, even if the economy was booming. :dh:

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99% of the women that do wear some articals of mens clothes are not pretending to be a guy, so I don't see why thats such an issue with you..there still presenting as a female..not as a male or any other sort of gender bending..

I do think it is unfair that you would have to give up something you enjoy b/c the person you married didn't know u did this before u got married. If you love someone u should be more understanding of there feelings.
Some say family first but what about your own self that should come first. Because if your not happy no one in your family will either.

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Originally Posted by crusadergirl

I do think it is unfair that you would have to give up something you enjoy b/c the person you married didn't know u did this before u got married. If you love someone u should be more understanding of there feelings.
Some say family first but what about your own self that should come first. Because if your not happy no one in your family will either.

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Unfair?????So I take it that you don't consider it a 2 way street then, huh...it's all about your feelings and not theirs..

Good luck on your relationship then, if that's what you think a relationship is all about, but regardless, your idea seems a bit too one sided to me..

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Originally Posted by paulaluvssz8

I'm going to have to make a decesion about me, and my cding. I will assure you all that first and foremost I will keep my family in mind. I will only do what's best for us. And if I have to dress in the closet while she is gone. Well that's what I'll do. Just to keep peace and togetherness. I'm aware the dressing is a choice for me. I do it for the pleasure, and I know that must really bother others.

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That so many here have IGNORED your situation, and comments. Apparently MORE INTERESTED in presenting their OWN points of view?

Altho, I wouldn't EXACTLY say Cding is an OPTION for me, I DO dress in the closet. And I don't need to go out dressed. I dress because it EXCITES me! Sounds like u may be similar, Paula.:)

Sounds like you've ALREADY solved your problem, without much help from us here! I was going to suggest closet dressing as a possible solution! Until your kids r grown, or until you've HAD ENUFF of your SO. After 20 years, I'm SURE it can be difficult to keep the relationship healthy and happy!

Another idea:
Take trips away by yourself. Dress in hotels, or somewhere where no one knows u.
I think u should tell your wife what you're doing, tho. It may be more acceptable, if she knows you'll dress without ANYONE knowing, or seeing u!:brolleyes: